Argument for & against joining a reference lab

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Lurkernewbie

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Long time lurker who has picked up a lot on these threads...more than probably even in residency ;) - finally posting something.

Wanted to understand what the argument against joining a reference lab (from a career perspective) is? Have often seen that mentioned here. Am someone who's been in academics for few years and maybe getting a little tired of it...considering a reference lab position. They will pay significantly higher, with a similar or lower workload.

And what are things I should look out for and ask in case there is an interview? Any pros of such a career?

Trying to make an informed decision and appreciate all your time, and all the useful info that is freely shared here!

Members don't see this ad.
 
Long time lurker who has picked up a lot on these threads...more than probably even in residency ;) - finally posting something.

Wanted to understand what the argument against joining a reference lab (from a career perspective) is? Have often seen that mentioned here. Am someone who's been in academics for few years and maybe getting a little tired of it...considering a reference lab position. They will pay significantly higher, with a similar or lower workload.

And what are things I should look out for and ask in case there is an interview? Any pros of such a career?

Trying to make an informed decision and appreciate all your time, and all the useful info that is freely shared here!

My friends at Quest are happy and I guess at the end of the day that's what counts. 8 hour days, no calls, no weekends, no frozens, no autopsies and good benefits from what I hear. Not all Quest locations are as pleasant as this one. One place is quite busy with challenging cases.

Mostly biopsies and resection (lumpectomies). They work with a good group of people (another plus)

I think you may or may not be restricted to corporate labs for the rest of your career unless a private group is willing to pick up someone who has been looking at mostly biopsies and cytology.

That's all I know. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
If you have been in an academic practice long enough you’ll never forget how to handle hospital based specimens.

Getting a significant salary bump during the middle of your career could allow you to shave 5 yrs or so off of your retirement age.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
May I ask why you're getting tired of academics?

Long time lurker who has picked up a lot on these threads...more than probably even in residency ;) - finally posting something.

Wanted to understand what the argument against joining a reference lab (from a career perspective) is? Have often seen that mentioned here. Am someone who's been in academics for few years and maybe getting a little tired of it...considering a reference lab position. They will pay significantly higher, with a similar or lower workload.

And what are things I should look out for and ask in case there is an interview? Any pros of such a career?

Trying to make an informed decision and appreciate all your time, and all the useful info that is freely shared here!
 
Thanks Unty & MDNE.

Unty- no good reason really. Was contacted about the position and everything looks good on paper...there may be a 100k+ bump and actually lower workload. But then had a similar pvt offer when starting off and had not taken it then, so that may still be how this one plays out...meanwhile trying to learn as much as I can to make an informed decision.
 
It would be a very, very bad choice. It will be a downshift in your career. Academia is to build your credential to improve your chances for a good private practice with partnership, and not for Quest.

100k improvement is insignificant.
Quest case load and variety, after several years, will make you significantly less marketable and suitable for hospital practices.
 
Yes I agree you should be able to get a higher private practice paying position in a group with partnership pay. I would aim for that.

Corporate labs, although may give you a better lifestyle, you are an employee with a flat salary with no partnership potential. Benefits may be good but you should be able to get a better package in a group with partnership especially since you are coming from academics.

I asked a buddy of mine who works in corporate and here's his response:

"Compared to academics, yes you may be getting a higher salary at a reference lab. But compared to a private practice, especially if you’re on a partnership or shareholder agreement, you may be getting a lower salary and your bonuses may not be as much as in private practice. That’s based on my experience. Again depends on who you ask."

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
If all you can do is get a job at Quest you need to re-evaluate your skill set. If you are going out the door and retiring in 5 go for it, if desperate for another job, there are many private jobs out there (unless you are in an odd state like me). I know pathologists that have been fired from reference labs, usually because of loss of volumes. It is a corporate money driven machine, you would just be a worker bee in the hive. If you have a secure academic job I would stay there. Why don't you get Quest to send samples to you and you sign out for the University? They do take over hospital labs you know.

That being said, the hours look attractive. At the end of the day no job is secure beyond the 60 to 90 day termination clause. What about the VA? Probably way more secure than most jobs in pathology.
 
Thanks guys for making good points...practically no exposure to private, been in academics from residency till now.

Ran possible salary by friend in private practice, who was surprised and thought it good. Of course no partnership track, and probably a salary ceiling soon after.

Thinking through points made above - tbh am looking more at lifestyle than compensation. Volumes seem lower than what I do currently, and no additional responsibilities. That appeals to me, and having a bunch of outside interests, feel I'm already time-poor than money.

Understand the issue about limited private options in future...a risk I will have to take. Hopefully all my years at a large academic center would minimize it if it comes to that. At this time cannot think I would look for private, either for more money, or lifestyle.

Biggest risk among those mentioned above I'm worried about is possibility of job loss, if that is more common at reference labs compared to private or academic?
 
How many years did you spend in academia?
 
At a reference lab, you are at the mercy of the requisition. No access to the patient's clinical history could be frustrating and maybe even dangerous. I know people who work for Quest-type companies and absolutely love their job and others who are bored out of their minds and miserable. From what I gather, it is mostly bread and butter, mostly biopsies.
 
I have been a long time lurker on this site, but this particular thread has inspired me to register and join in on a conversation. I do find the topics and discussion here quite interesting.

I don't want to identify myself but to give a little background to the original person who posted this - I was trained at one of the elite pathology residency programs and stayed on as faculty there and gave my heart and soul for almost 7 yrs. I came out of training (AP/Cyto) ready to go because I was very busy and worked hard while a resident and fellow. I also trained before the ACGME resident hours rules so it wasn't unusual for me and my co-residents to sleep at the hospital while on SP and to spend all day on weekend days working and reviewing slides. When I transitioned to attending it was all well and good, I signed out a lot and continued to grow as a pathologist. After a while though the relatively low pay was enough for me to start looking around and I took a job at a corporate lab that draws only from outpatient setting and surgery centers. Let me first say I have never regretted this and the increase in salary has been life changing. My base pay increased > 100K when I transitioned has steadily increased and is currently in the mid 300s, + incentive bumps, + company match, + funding for CME & educational expenses, 6 weeks for vaca and other benefits with monetary value. I know I could have possibly made more if I had found a partnership track in a pathologist owned practice but the trade off to me is worth not having to deal with the headaches that come with a hospital based practice (call, frozens, etc). I am sure someone will point out that I am getting screwed over because I am billing a lot, but I was getting screwed 10x worse in academics if you look at my billing vs my pittance academic salary.

As far as skills withering, that depends on where you go and your current experience and skill level. Our lab sees GI biopsies, GYN biopsies, H&N biopsies, GYN cytology, Non-Gyn cytologies including thyroid FNA and GU biopsies including extended core prostates. I actually see more variety now b/c my academic job was partially sub-specialized. Every year I diagnose hundreds of cancers, both typical and unusual variants, in the GYN, GI and GU tract, unusual infections and other odd ball cases on a regular basis to stay sharp. Trust me if you can spot sneaky signet ring cancers in a GI biopsy you'll be fine staging said cancer if you ever crossed back to hospital based work. In my geographic area I have a lot of friends that I know from training and from practice and If I ever needed to I could easy go back to a hospital based position without any diagnostic issues. Knowing that I could easily cross back over if I ever regretted my choice to leave helped me to make the decision to leave. But I can tell you several years into I am all set unless something catastrophic happened and my lab shuttered or there were a major change in my work environment. Either of these is extremely unlikely but I suppose one never knows.

Not sure why most here are so quick to trash corporate labs, they arent all bad and there are a lot of perks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I have been a long time lurker on this site, but this particular thread has inspired me to register and join in on a conversation. I do find the topics and discussion here quite interesting.

I don't want to identify myself but to give a little background to the original person who posted this - I was trained at one of the elite pathology residency programs and stayed on as faculty there and gave my heart and soul for almost 7 yrs. I came out of training (AP/Cyto) ready to go because I was very busy and worked hard while a resident and fellow. I also trained before the ACGME resident hours rules so it wasn't unusual for me and my co-residents to sleep at the hospital while on SP and to spend all day on weekend days working and reviewing slides. When I transitioned to attending it was all well and good, I signed out a lot and continued to grow as a pathologist. After a while though the relatively low pay was enough for me to start looking around and I took a job at a corporate lab that draws only from outpatient setting and surgery centers. Let me first say I have never regretted this and the increase in salary has been life changing. My base pay increased > 100K when I transitioned has steadily increased and is currently in the mid 300s, + incentive bumps, + company match, + funding for CME & educational expenses, 6 weeks for vaca and other benefits with monetary value. I know I could have possibly made more if I had found a partnership track in a pathologist owned practice but the trade off to me is worth not having to deal with the headaches that come with a hospital based practice (call, frozens, etc). I am sure someone will point out that I am getting screwed over because I am billing a lot, but I was getting screwed 10x worse in academics if you look at my billing vs my pittance academic salary.

As far as skills withering, that depends on where you go and your current experience and skill level. Our lab sees GI biopsies, GYN biopsies, H&N biopsies, GYN cytology, Non-Gyn cytologies including thyroid FNA and GU biopsies including extended core prostates. I actually see more variety now b/c my academic job was partially sub-specialized. Every year I diagnose hundreds of cancers, both typical and unusual variants, in the GYN, GI and GU tract, unusual infections and other odd ball cases on a regular basis to stay sharp. Trust me if you can spot sneaky signet ring cancers in a GI biopsy you'll be fine staging said cancer if you ever crossed back to hospital based work. In my geographic area I have a lot of friends that I know from training and from practice and If I ever needed to I could easy go back to a hospital based position without any diagnostic issues. Knowing that I could easily cross back over if I ever regretted my choice to leave helped me to make the decision to leave. But I can tell you several years into I am all set unless something catastrophic happened and my lab shuttered or there were a major change in my work environment. Either of these is extremely unlikely but I suppose one never knows.

Not sure why most here are so quick to trash corporate labs, they arent all bad and there are a lot of perks.
Thanks for sharing. It's stories from pathologists like you that make this forum informative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
"Not sure why most here are so quick to trash corporate labs, they arent all bad and there are a lot of perks."

Envy
 
I think the main complaint is that it is so hard to compete with large scale operations when it comes to client billing etc. They ultimately are going to win out so resistance is futile. PAMA is helping them win even faster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top