Arizona's law back fires

[urge]

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[YOUTUBE]es3hq0XM-cw[/YOUTUBE]

😀

 

[pgg]

Totally predictable.

But if unemployment is really 4%, if the illegal workers are mostly gone, and if they can't find Americans to work, seems like given some time unemployed people in other states might move there for work.

A 30-second "Arizona's Hiring" TV ad right after the Florida "Our Beaches Aren't THAT Oily" tourism ad might help.

(Except for the field picking jobs no American would be caught dead doing.)


I can't say I have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone involved
- the pandering politicians who are backtracking
- the businesses that have profited for years by illegally paying undocumented workers under the table
- the general population enjoying 4% unemployment
- the illegal immigrants who were, after all, breaking our laws

The tech bubble popped, the housing bubble popped, maybe now the Arizona cheap labor bubble has popped? I'll withould judgment on whether or not that's a bad thing, and whether or not I should hope for the same thing to happen in California.

 

[cfdavid]

[YOUTUBE]es3hq0XM-cw[/YOUTUBE]

😀

Urge, you of all people should recognize that you can spin a story any way you wish. Do you really think the mainstream establishment is going to give this issue anything BUT bad press??

One more thing. We need to think for ourselves. So, we have record unemployment amongst US CITIZENS. The CNN piece mentions a lot of service sector jobs..... These jobs are, according to CNN, not being filled with legal immigrants and citizens. Why is this????

This is akin to having an environment where the US government pulls out all stops and allows well-trained Indian anesthesiologists to flood the anesthesia market. So, over time, wages will be depressed. Lots of well trained doctors in the East, willing to work for MUCH LESS THAN YOU DUDE.

So, now a law comes in and makes it more difficult for them, because, say, they're illegal. This opens up opportunities for natives and legal immigrant anesthesiologists to fill that void. But, what void?? A depressed wage void?

Can you blame a father of 3 from "holding out" for a family-sustaining wage rather than rush out to the local farm for a depressed wage (once that precedent is set, it's really hard to reverse)??

Sure, the response is often, "well, if you're desperate enough.......". Sure. When will YOU be desperate enough to work for $100k, in your same gig??

Don't allow the media or those with vested interests fool you. This is all about money. The CNN piece shows small businesses. But, what they (and their sponsors want it this way) DON'T show you is the large commercial farm run by Monsanto which benefits from depressed wages brought on by massive influx of poor people from Mexico willing to do those jobs for 1/4 the price of old.

"Well, this is just economics" you say. Again, sure. Until YOU are effected by such "economic inevitabilities". Maybe then you'll be a bit more sympathetic.

Every sovereign nation has the right to enforce their borders. The right to enforce immigration laws. In this case, the Feds have (once again?) failed miserably, and now you have a state with problems so large that they are willing (in these times) to foot the bill to do their own enforcing.

cheers,

cf

 

[Narcotized]

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[Narcotized]

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[demayette]

Speaking of media with no sense but lots of agendas, the good unbiased folks at The NY Times want you to know that Obama saved us by bankrupting the country:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/38443309

So let me take a sec to absorb this one as well; "So we averted catastrophe by living over our heads through borrowing trillions of dollars to keep the party going.".... hmmm, no mention of the fact we are many trillions more in debt now. I guess the cost to through a huge nationwide Obama party is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is how cool the party was before the cash ran out and the bill comes due.

3 1/2 more months till the end of Obamageddon.

You sound like Glenn Beck...You know..The clown in Fox News.

 

[Narcotized]

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[Narcotized]

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[2win]

You sound like Glenn Beck...You know..The clown in Fox News.

Huh????
Progressist poster? Confused in life and celebrating the Earth day? Obamoid feeling lost? Lost the remote for MSNBC? 😕

 

[jwk]

You sound like Glenn Beck...You know..The clown in Fox News.

Get back to us in a few years when you've actually worked enough that you have to pay taxes. Not the part-time burger flipping job where you get all of it back, but the kind where 1/3 or more is gone.

 

[urge]

Can you blame a father of 3 from "holding out" for a family-sustaining wage rather than rush out to the local farm for a depressed wage (once that precedent is set, it's really hard to reverse)??

You want the strawberry pickers to be paid $20/hr and full benefits?

Don't complain when a pound of local berries is $100, while imported ones are $3. I'm sure which ones you will be buying.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

 

[countingdays]

You want the strawberry pickers to be paid $20/hr and full benefits?

Don't complain when a pound of local berries is $100, while imported ones are $3. I'm sure which ones you will be buying.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

Using your math, the immigrants must be making 60 cents an hour or so. That is ridiculous, the salaries are way closer than that. Also, the extra few dollars an hour an American would get paid would be divided over dozens or hundreds of pounds of berries so you might pay $3.20 instead of $3 for you berries if you pay an American a living wage.

The 20 cents isn't even lost money though. To make up for the extra 20 cents at the grocery store, you save more than 20 cents by not having to pay for illegal immigrants education, healthcare, welfare, etc. That's not even all though. You also save on the welfare costs of the American who could go back to work when the illegal immigrant leaves.

Illegal immigrants do NOT benefit this country financially. They benefit the few people who exploit them.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

 

[urge]

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

Using your math, the immigrants must be making 60 cents an hour or so. That is ridiculous, the salaries are way closer than that. Also, the extra few dollars an hour an American would get paid would be divided over dozens or hundreds of pounds of berries so you might pay $3.20 instead of $3 for you berries if you pay an American a living wage.

The 20 cents isn't even lost money though. To make up for the extra 20 cents at the grocery store, you save more than 20 cents by not having to pay for illegal immigrants education, healthcare, welfare, etc. That's not even all though. You also save on the welfare costs of the American who could go back to work when the illegal immigrant leaves.

Illegal immigrants do NOT benefit this country financially. They benefit the few people who exploit them.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

You think one lazy fat American will replace one of those immigrants in terms of work done? You have to hire like four or more. Between being late, slow, sick days, maternity, disability.... WTF? You have never seen one of those dudes going at it? jeezz....

😕

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

 

[urge]

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

BTW, show me the evidence for that.

😴

 

[lakersbaby]

You think one lazy fat American will replace one of those immigrants in terms of work done? You have to hire like four or more. Between being late, slow, sick days, maternity, disability.... WTF? You have never seen one of those dudes going at it? jeezz....

😕

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

urge although i do agree with you about the labor issue, i think the burden they put on states like texas, az, and california in terms of cost of healthcare, education and prison outweighs any benefit from having cheap produce. I think the fact that California is almost dead last in terms of test scores has a lot to do with the fact that classes are filled with illegal immigrants that do not speak english and eventually drop out of school. I have multiple friends that are teachers there and they tell me how frustrating it is to teach there. and although there are a lot of good hardworking people that come over there are also a lot of drug dealing gang members that come across as well. its a tough debate.

 

[demayette]

Get back to us in a few years when you've actually worked enough that you have to pay taxes. Not the part-time burger flipping job where you get all of it back, but the kind where 1/3 or more is gone.

Yes BIG DOC. You are assuming only big doc like you makes enough money to pay taxes...Seriously...HA

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

Using your math, the immigrants must be making 60 cents an hour or so. That is ridiculous, the salaries are way closer than that. Also, the extra few dollars an hour an American would get paid would be divided over dozens or hundreds of pounds of berries so you might pay $3.20 instead of $3 for you berries if you pay an American a living wage.

The 20 cents isn't even lost money though. To make up for the extra 20 cents at the grocery store, you save more than 20 cents by not having to pay for illegal immigrants education, healthcare, welfare, etc. That's not even all though. You also save on the welfare costs of the American who could go back to work when the illegal immigrant leaves.

Illegal immigrants do NOT benefit this country financially. They benefit the few people who exploit them.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

A couple thoughts.
1) To continue your example, $.20/lb of berries over a couple hundred thousand or million lbs of berries starts to add up. Though I don't think we're going to get far with this line of reasoning, as we're all just making up numbers at this point.

2) I don't think the illegal immigrant is "taking" an American's job. If anything, I would bet the vast majority of jobs staffed by illegal immigrants are jobs Americans would pass up. I'm always reminded of Randy Quaid in Christmas Vacation "holding out for a management position."

3) I think through selection bias, an immigrant who risks life and limb and is willing to leave their family is a fairly motivated individual. And if anything, I'd rather my education and health care dollars go to them as someone who might do something productive with it rather than an "American" who drops out of high school to collect disability as if it's written in the Constitution.

4) I agree, the people who benefit the most are the people employing them. I think minimum wage should be minimum wage, regardless of citizenship, and if a company wants to hire immigrants because they're harder workers or they're the only ones willing to do the job, more power to them. That way, companies will have to pay taxes on those employees, thereby mitigating all the free "services" that have to be paid for.

 

[demayette]

I'm sorry; will I sound like a more intelligent clown if I regurgitate the koolaide mantra that bankrupting the country with wasteful borrowing and spending will save us???

There were no borrowing, wasteful spending, frivolous wars in the previous 8 years. Seriously... Where are you drinking these coolaid?

 

[demayette]

A couple thoughts.
1) To continue your example, $.20/lb of berries over a couple hundred thousand or million lbs of berries starts to add up. Though I don't think we're going to get far with this line of reasoning, as we're all just making up numbers at this point.

2) I don't think the illegal immigrant is "taking" an American's job. If anything, I would bet the vast majority of jobs staffed by illegal immigrants are jobs Americans would pass up. I'm always reminded of Randy Quaid in Christmas Vacation "holding out for a management position."

3) I think through selection bias, an immigrant who risks life and limb and is willing to leave their family is a fairly motivated individual. And if anything, I'd rather my education and health care dollars go to them as someone who might do something productive with it rather than an "American" who drops out of high school to collect disability as if it's written in the Constitution.

4) I agree, the people who benefit the most are the people employing them. I think minimum wage should be minimum wage, regardless of citizenship, and if a company wants to hire immigrants because they're harder workers or they're the only ones willing to do the job, more power to them. That way, companies will have to pay taxes on those employees, thereby mitigating all the free "services" that have to be paid for.

Whenever things get tough on American, the knee jerk reaction is: Let's blame it on the immigrants. They forgot that a lot of americans are sitting on their behind collecting free money, free services and doing drugs.

 

[jwk]

Yes BIG DOC. You are assuming only big doc like you makes enough money to pay taxes...Seriously...HA

Not a doc here hotshot.

Let me guess - you voted for Obama too.

 

[demayette]

Not a doc here hotshot.

Let me guess - you voted for Obama too.

I will vote for ya...

 

[Bertelman]

Not a doc here hotshot.

Let me guess - you voted for Obama too.

Didn't you?

 

[countingdays]

A couple thoughts.
1) To continue your example, $.20/lb of berries over a couple hundred thousand or million lbs of berries starts to add up. Though I don't think we're going to get far with this line of reasoning, as we're all just making up numbers at this point.

2) I don't think the illegal immigrant is "taking" an American's job. If anything, I would bet the vast majority of jobs staffed by illegal immigrants are jobs Americans would pass up. I'm always reminded of Randy Quaid in Christmas Vacation "holding out for a management position."

3) I think through selection bias, an immigrant who risks life and limb and is willing to leave their family is a fairly motivated individual. And if anything, I'd rather my education and health care dollars go to them as someone who might do something productive with it rather than an "American" who drops out of high school to collect disability as if it's written in the Constitution.

4) I agree, the people who benefit the most are the people employing them. I think minimum wage should be minimum wage, regardless of citizenship, and if a company wants to hire immigrants because they're harder workers or they're the only ones willing to do the job, more power to them. That way, companies will have to pay taxes on those employees, thereby mitigating all the free "services" that have to be paid for.

Of course illegal immigrants are taking American jobs. It's not as if we didn't have produce or restaurants or construction before the massive influx of illegal immigrants. Those jobs existed before and were staffed by Americans. It makes no sense to say Americans wouldn't do the jobs. This is one of the lies repeated so often it starts to sound true, but it isn't.

 

[Narcotized]

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[Narcotized]

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[BestDoctorEver]

So has the light bulb finally gone on in your head that there isn't much difference between George Bush and Borat Obama?? The only difference is Obama took the fiscal irresponsibility of Bush and juiced it up 10 fold on steroids. Otherwise, Obama is basically the character Dave Chapell used to portray, that being a more tan version of George Bush.

Narcotized, I think you should stop watching FOX NEWS. You are just spouting their talking points. As for you Demayette, I think Obama is no better than Bush when it come to deficit reduction. The only difference is that: Bush want to give more to the rich, Obama want to give the poor a free ride, thereby make them more lazy.
BUSH = OBAMA

 

[PL32]

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

Using your math, the immigrants must be making 60 cents an hour or so. That is ridiculous, the salaries are way closer than that. Also, the extra few dollars an hour an American would get paid would be divided over dozens or hundreds of pounds of berries so you might pay $3.20 instead of $3 for you berries if you pay an American a living wage.

The 20 cents isn't even lost money though. To make up for the extra 20 cents at the grocery store, you save more than 20 cents by not having to pay for illegal immigrants education, healthcare, welfare, etc. That's not even all though. You also save on the welfare costs of the American who could go back to work when the illegal immigrant leaves.

Illegal immigrants do NOT benefit this country financially. They benefit the few people who exploit them.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

I am curious about whether or not this is absolutely true, verifiable information. Have you considered all of the pros and all of the cons regarding illegal immigrants benefitting the country? Have you actually researched everything and made sure you understand every issue before making that claim?

I think when it comes to important, sensitive topics such as this, the loudest voices should be the most well informed.

 

[countingdays]

I am curious about whether or not this is absolutely true, verifiable information. Have you considered all of the pros and all of the cons regarding illegal immigrants benefitting the country? Have you actually researched everything and made sure you understand every issue before making that claim?

I think when it comes to important, sensitive topics such as this, the loudest voices should be the most well informed.

Yes except that the 20 cent difference is actually an overestimate of the savings illegal immigrants provide.

Also, the actual number of unemployed or under-employed Americans going to work in these jobs would be dependent on limiting food stamps, section 8, medicaid, etc to able bodied young adults.

Rather than making things better, Democrats want to give illegal immigrants medicare and social security. As if things weren't bad enough as they are...

 

[pgg]

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

I'd also be interested in a source for this. Regardless, I don't see the problem with paying Americans a legal and competitive market wage to pick strawberries. If strawberries cost $9/box and fewer people buy them, they'll plant something less labor intensive. I'm more interested in a sustainable healthy economy than cheap berries for my Cheerios.

Just because certain sectors of our economy have grown accustomed to a cheap labor bubble doesn't mean we should continue to prop it up.

 

[Narcotized]

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[hoyden]

I can't say I have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone involved
- the pandering politicians who are backtracking
- the businesses that have profited for years by illegally paying undocumented workers under the table
- the general population enjoying 4% unemployment
- the illegal immigrants who were, after all, breaking our laws

😕

What's wrong with 4% unemployment ?
And everybody enjoying it - that's the way it is supposed to be, right?

 

[GoodmanBrown]

😕

What's wrong with 4% unemployment ?
And everybody enjoying it - that's the way it is supposed to be, right?

I guess it's a double-edged sword. For a job seeker, 4% is great because employers compete for your work. For a business owner, it's bad because you have to compete for employees. Thus, you have to settle for crappy employees or none at all because there aren't enough qualified, quality applicants.

Hence the owner of the construction firm has lost about $4 million in contracts because he can't complete the work in a reasonable timeframe and losses the bid.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

You tell me to stop watching Fox News, and then you repeat basically exactly what I said. I guess you need to turn off Fox News.

Some guys on Fox are ok. Some are just Republican puppets that defend anything Republican and bash anything Democrat. I think Bush sucked and was the worst president until Obama easily snatched the title from him, so I hardly fall under the Republican puppet category. Pretty much everybody on msnbc and cnn are biased *****s of distortion and incompetence.

Ron Paul is probably the smartest guy in DC at present. He doesnt have a huge following at Fox. I find Hannity very annoying and just a (more intelligent) Republican version of the idiots at the other stations.

Wow... Is he? Don't think so....

 

[hoyden]

A couple thoughts.
1) To continue your example, $.20/lb of berries over a couple hundred thousand or million lbs of berries starts to add up. Though I don't think we're going to get far with this line of reasoning, as we're all just making up numbers at this point.

2) I don't think the illegal immigrant is "taking" an American's job. If anything, I would bet the vast majority of jobs staffed by illegal immigrants are jobs Americans would pass up. I'm always reminded of Randy Quaid in Christmas Vacation "holding out for a management position."

3) I think through selection bias, an immigrant who risks life and limb and is willing to leave their family is a fairly motivated individual. And if anything, I'd rather my education and health care dollars go to them as someone who might do something productive with it rather than an "American" who drops out of high school to collect disability as if it's written in the Constitution.

4) I agree, the people who benefit the most are the people employing them. I think minimum wage should be minimum wage, regardless of citizenship, and if a company wants to hire immigrants because they're harder workers or they're the only ones willing to do the job, more power to them. That way, companies will have to pay taxes on those employees, thereby mitigating all the free "services" that have to be paid for.

Would agree with almost every word if you would you add one particular word - LEGAL immigrants. Nobody will object a guest worker on a life-long visa, an earned GC or earned citizenship - paying their taxes and not laying their burdens on other's shoulders.
Why the heck should I care about a person who broke the law and now demands entitlements exactly because of that?
He/she wants the rights? Go through the due process - wait in line, pay the fines, pay ALL taxes for ALL years you've been here - then you might get a road to the GC. I would still NOT give citizenship to those, whose start in this country was to get into your house declaring - I'm gonna live her now and you will pay my bills.

 

[hoyden]

Didn't you?

He did not. It was somebody's else quote. Got in the same trap, too 🙂

 

[hoyden]

I guess it's a double-edged sword. For a job seeker, 4% is great because employers compete for your work. For a business owner, it's bad because you have to compete for employees. Thus, you have to settle for crappy employees or none at all because there aren't enough qualified, quality applicants.

Hence the owner of the construction firm has lost about $4 million in contracts because he can't complete the work in a reasonable timeframe and losses the bid.

I guess I should phrase it more precise - why should general public, enjoying the 4% unemployment rate ( which means the economy is booming and the average Joe and Jane have a job and a future) be viewed as a kind of a villain on par with an employer exploiting poor illegals working on his field for 60 cents a day?


And you would, probably, agree, that the problems of 4% unemployment are much more appealing than the 10% one. Even for a construction firm - since a 10% unemployment rate is not existing solo as well...

 

[countingdays]

I'd also be interested in a source for this. Regardless, I don't see the problem with paying Americans a legal and competitive market wage to pick strawberries. If strawberries cost $9/box and fewer people buy them, they'll plant something less labor intensive. I'm more interested in a sustainable healthy economy than cheap berries for my Cheerios.

Just because certain sectors of our economy have grown accustomed to a cheap labor bubble doesn't mean we should continue to prop it up.

Funny how I'm expected to prove that immigrants aren't really saving you money while people can repeat the lies and they never have to prove it.
That's fine. Here are some samples.

Strawberry farmers pay $1.25 per 12 pint tray of strawberries. about = 10 cents per pint. Even if an American is paid 50% more than an illegal immigrant, it would only add 5 cents to your 3 dollar pint of strawberries.

http://www.cis.org/AmericanLaborMarket%26Immigration


"Labor costs comprise only 6 percent of the price consumers pay for fresh produce. Thus, if farm wages were allowed to rise 40 percent, and if all the costs were passed on to consumers, the cost to the average household would be only about $8 a year."

"Mechanization could offset higher labor costs. After the “Bracero” Mexican guestworker program ended in the mid-1960s, farm worker wages rose 40 percent, but consumer prices rose relatively little because the mechanization of some crops dramatically increased productivity."
http://www.cis.org/no_farm_labor_shortages.html

The $113 billion in outlays for services and benefits to illegal aliens and their families represents an average cost to native-headed households of $1,117 a year. http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=23198&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1741

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Would agree with almost every word if you would you add one particular word - LEGAL immigrants. Nobody will object a guest worker on a life-long visa, an earned GC or earned citizenship - paying their taxes and not laying their burdens on other's shoulders.
Why the heck should I care about a person who broke the law and now demands entitlements exactly because of that?
He/she wants the rights? Go through the due process - wait in line, pay the fines, pay ALL taxes for ALL years you've been here - then you might get a road to the GC. I would still NOT give citizenship to those, whose start in this country was to get into your house declaring - I'm gonna live her now and you will pay my bills.

That's fine. I agree that workers should be legal and documented, which was part of my point about having a strict minimum wage and accounting for all workers. Basically what I'm trying to say is, if somebody is willing to come to our country and work hard, I have no problem with giving them a visa or whatever it takes to make them legal.

 

[countingdays]

That's fine. I agree that workers should be legal and documented, which was part of my point about having a strict minimum wage and accounting for all workers. Basically what I'm trying to say is, if somebody is willing to come to our country and work hard, I have no problem with giving them a visa or whatever it takes to make them legal.

Let's say there are 2-3 billion people who are willing to come to our country and work hard? Change your tune any?
If not, do you think it would be more efficient to annex most of the world and save people the trip?
At what point in dilution of wealth would you draw the line?

 

[pgg]

😕

What's wrong with 4% unemployment ?
And everybody enjoying it - that's the way it is supposed to be, right?

There's nothing wrong with 4% unemployment if you're not in the group looking to hire people. That's my point, at least regarding the jobs issue ... why should I get upset on behalf of Arizona citizens who, apparently, really aren't suffering because of stolen jerbz?

Then there are the business owners, like the guy in the video who claims a $4-5 million loss now that the illegal workers have left and he's having trouble continuing to break the law and defraud the IRS by hiring illegal workers. Golly, I'm not exactly bleeding with sympathy for that guy either. He built a business based on criminal labor and tax evasion, and now his business is struggling to keep up with demand for its services. That guy should be going to prison, not wailing and gnashing his teeth on television about how he's been wronged.

That doesn't mean I totally dismiss related issues, particularly
- lost tax revenues from businesses having labor shortages
- footing the bill for the social services illegal immigrants require
- border violence (admittedly more drug war related)

 

[hoyden]

That's fine. I agree that workers should be legal and documented, which was part of my point about having a strict minimum wage and accounting for all workers. Basically what I'm trying to say is, if somebody is willing to come to our country and work hard, I have no problem with giving them a visa or whatever it takes to make them legal.

Totally agree - there should be a system for people of different levels of qualification to work in the US and it should not be too complicated. It is existing now, but it is very complicated and practically not available from abroad unless you apply for high-level narrow specialties.

For people already living here there should be a path towards legalization ( it is there, but it is convoluted), however, I would not reward the people who initially broke the law by full citizenship - permanent work visa or temporary green card should be totally enough to satisfy both the illegals already living in the US and all other law-abiding citizens and legal immigrants. Might not satisfy greedy side on the right and the same greedy ( on other grounds) side on the left, however.

And of course, good border security precludes any of this.

 

[hoyden]

There's nothing wrong with 4% unemployment if you're not in the group looking to hire people. That's my point, at least regarding the jobs issue ... why should I get upset on behalf of Arizona citizens who, apparently, really aren't suffering because of stolen jerbz?

Then there are the business owners, like the guy in the video who claims a $4-5 million loss now that the illegal workers have left and he's having trouble continuing to break the law and defraud the IRS by hiring illegal workers. Golly, I'm not exactly bleeding with sympathy for that guy either. He built a business based on criminal labor and tax evasion, and now his business is struggling to keep up with demand for its services. That guy should be going to prison, not wailing and gnashing his teeth on television about how he's been wronged.

That doesn't mean I totally dismiss related issues, particularly
- lost tax revenues from businesses having labor shortages
- footing the bill for the social services illegal immigrants require
- border violence (admittedly more drug war related)

I was just a bit surprised that you put in the same basket relatively innocent and totally normal average person enjoying good times and the parties which are either benefiting from not so innocent actions ( all other sides listed)

 

[hoyden]

Let's say there are 2-3 billion people who are willing to come to our country and work hard? Change your tune any?
If not, do you think it would be more efficient to annex most of the world and save people the trip?
At what point in dilution of wealth would you draw the line?

If they wait in line and the government workers are taking care of them?.... why not 😀

Clearly, you do not not know what line is 😀

Some of the theoretical 2010 appliers may, eventually, get their file looked through in XXIII century

 

[2win]

Narcotized, I think you should stop watching FOX NEWS. You are just spouting their talking points. As for you Demayette, I think Obama is no better than Bush when it come to deficit reduction. The only difference is that: Bush want to give more to the rich, Obama want to give the poor a free ride, thereby make them more lazy.
BUSH = OBAMA

I would agree with you BUT -
rich are RICH because they have the RIGHT to be (WORK)
Obama is a racist communist.
Which one is better?
BUSH BUSH BUSH

BTW - I AM RICH.

 

[Narcotized]

.

 

[Surfer]

The idea that immigrants significantly lower prices is a myth. Labor is a relatively small percentage of the cost of production. Fixed costs- land, irrigation, seeds, fertilizer, capital costs, etc.- are much more important. Since labor costs are such a small portion of production, small differences in labor cost won't affect the price at the grocery store much.

Using your math, the immigrants must be making 60 cents an hour or so. That is ridiculous, the salaries are way closer than that. Also, the extra few dollars an hour an American would get paid would be divided over dozens or hundreds of pounds of berries so you might pay $3.20 instead of $3 for you berries if you pay an American a living wage.

The 20 cents isn't even lost money though. To make up for the extra 20 cents at the grocery store, you save more than 20 cents by not having to pay for illegal immigrants education, healthcare, welfare, etc. That's not even all though. You also save on the welfare costs of the American who could go back to work when the illegal immigrant leaves.

Illegal immigrants do NOT benefit this country financially. They benefit the few people who exploit them.

Your rhetoric is nonsensical.

Bingo!

I'm sick of people saying we "pay immigrants 60cents per day" to work in the field. They are clueless. The cost of immigrant labor is about 10-12 dollars/hour. They will not work for less.

Take the americans off of welfare entirely. Tell them they can work in the strawberry fields or they can starve. Problem solved. Do you realize all the wars of the last 10 years pale in comparison to the cost of social services and outlays? PALE in comparison.

 

[cfdavid]

Bingo!

I'm sick of people saying we "pay immigrants 60cents per day" to work in the field. They are clueless. The cost of immigrant labor is about 10-12 dollars/hour. They will not work for less.

Take the americans off of welfare entirely. Tell them they can work in the strawberry fields or they can starve. Problem solved. Do you realize all the wars of the last 10 years pale in comparison to the cost of social services and outlays? PALE in comparison.

I'm no longer a Republican (they sold out too many times for me), but their favorites, the Dems, just say "let them eat cake".....

 

[hoyden]

I'm no longer a Republican (they sold out too many times for me), but their favorites, the Dems, just say "let them eat cake".....

This cynical strategy is very well supported by medical research 😀
But it might take too long to be effective


p.s. I diverted the original meaning, obviously )))))

 

[deleted126335]

Bingo!

I'm sick of people saying we "pay immigrants 60cents per day" to work in the field. They are clueless. The cost of immigrant labor is about 10-12 dollars/hour. They will not work for less.

Take the americans off of welfare entirely. Tell them they can work in the strawberry fields or they can starve. Problem solved. Do you realize all the wars of the last 10 years pale in comparison to the cost of social services and outlays? PALE in comparison.

Would you really rather live in a society where the reverse was true?

 

[pgg]

Would you really rather live in a society where the reverse was true?

That's an awfully non sequiturish comment.