Army cadet seeks help...unbalanced (?) MCAT

[WinterSoldier93]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Sup guys. First post on SDN, so here it goes.

Background info in brief
Ethnicity: Asian male from CA
Top-20 University (per US News)
Neuroscience major
Overall GPA: 3.894, Science GPA: 3.890 (roughly calculated it myself for the BCPM classes)
Army ROTC (planning on applying for HPSP come October)
I'll be applying in the upcoming 2014-15 cycle.

MCAT taken on 09AUG2013. Overall: 33. PS 13, VR 10, BS10.
I have a few nagging questions on my mind.

1. I know that a 33 is a solid score, no doubts there. But I've averaged 36's on AAMC practice tests, and would like a few extra points just to make sure all my bases are covered come application time. By no means am I gunning for top-10 schools, but I've seen people with 40+'s get rejected from such schools right and left. I'm satisfied with a 13 on PS and 10 on Verbal. It's that 10 on bio that unnerves me. Should I retake for a few extra points on Verbal and Bio?

2. If I do retake, it'll have to be on 05JUN. Assume I submit AMCAS in early June (and get transcripts + letters in on time), would schools receiving scores in early July hinder me in terms of having applications completed and on time? Earlier is better seems to be the mantra according to peers who've already braved past cycles.

Thanks so much for your help guys. If I can think of any more questions I'll post them as they come up.

 

[deleted480308]

You don't need a retake


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[LizzyM]

That's not an unbalanced score. You might not be a good match for a Calif school or a top 20 but you have a solid application. If by January 2015 you have not had any offers, you should consider a retake but at this point it is not worth the delay it will cause in your application!

 

[Patros]

Short answer: No, you should not retake. The risk of going down on PS is too high, and you have no guarantee that VR will increase.

You have a great chance to get into a medical school if you write your applications well. People only get rejected with 3.9/33 because they have poor interviewing skills, write poor applications, or have bad LORs. Just apply broadly. Stanford and UCSF are going to be unlikely, but there are plenty of other schools that would be happy to take someone with a 3.9/33.

 

[mvenus929]

The reason why people with scores of 40+ get rejected is because they either have no personality or social skills, or there is something missing from their application (most notably clinical experience).

 

[WinterSoldier93]

Also, another question popped up. I've heard people talking about GPA/MCAT splitters, where one numeric is too high and the other too low.
Does a 3.9/33 get counted as a splitter, and raise any red flags? It seems as if the MCAT score doesn't really 'match up' to that GPA.
Just my thoughts, though.

 

[LizzyM]

Also, another question popped up. I've heard people talking about GPA/MCAT splitters, where one numeric is too high and the other too low.
Does a 3.9/33 get counted as a splitter, and raise any red flags? It seems as if the MCAT score doesn't really 'match up' to that GPA.
Just my thoughts, though.

It looks like it might be 1) grade inflation or 2) a person who does not do well with that type of exam.

With a 33, more applicants do better on a retake than who do poorly. https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/admissionsadvisors/mcat_stats/

 

[Selladore235]

A 3.9/33 isn't unbalanced and a 33 is approximately the 90th percentile for the test. Grade inflation or a bad test taker? C'mon, people.

 

[LizzyM]

A 3.9/33 isn't unbalanced and a 33 is approximately the 90th percentile for the test. Grade inflation or a bad test taker? C'mon, people.

It may be 90th percentile but it would place the applicant at the 10th percentile among applicants interviewed at my school. When ~ 44% of all applicants get admitted, being in the top 90% (and many MCAT takers never even apply to med school), 90th percentile is not as great as it sounds.

 

[pietachok]

Sup guys. First post on SDN, so here it goes.

Background info in brief
Ethnicity: Asian male from CA
Top-20 University (per US News)
Neuroscience major
Overall GPA: 3.894, Science GPA: 3.890 (roughly calculated it myself for the BCPM classes)
Army ROTC (planning on applying for HPSP come October)
I'll be applying in the upcoming 2014-15 cycle.

MCAT taken on 09AUG2013. Overall: 33. PS 13, VR 10, BS10.
I have a few nagging questions on my mind.

1. I know that a 33 is a solid score, no doubts there. But I've averaged 36's on AAMC practice tests, and would like a few extra points just to make sure all my bases are covered come application time. By no means am I gunning for top-10 schools, but I've seen people with 40+'s get rejected from such schools right and left. I'm satisfied with a 13 on PS and 10 on Verbal. It's that 10 on bio that unnerves me. Should I retake for a few extra points on Verbal and Bio?

2. If I do retake, it'll have to be on 05JUN. Assume I submit AMCAS in early June (and get transcripts + letters in on time), would schools receiving scores in early July hinder me in terms of having applications completed and on time? Earlier is better seems to be the mantra according to peers who've already braved past cycles.

Thanks so much for your help guys. If I can think of any more questions I'll post them as they come up.

Most applicants with your GPA have a lower MCAT than that.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2013factstable24.pdf

About 43% of people who retake after a 33 are going to do worse. And if you break it down to look at each section, retakers with your 13/10/10 are always at a higher chance of staying the same or dropping each section score (especially with a 13 BS) . . . so it's likely a lot of those 33's that improved had really unbalanced MCATs (which yours is not).
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/admissionsadvisors/mcat_stats/

If you look at the table in that link, you will see that the benefit to acceptance rate of improving your MCAT to a 36-38 is only a 4% increase in acceptance rate. Improving your score isn't going to have the major payoff it does when you increase from a 28 to a 31 (more than 15%!). As someone already mentioned, once you're in this GPA/MCAT bracket, failure to gain acceptance has a lot more to do with the rest of the application package -- keep in mind that 8% of the 4.0/45 get rejected . . . and it's not b/c of their stats.

That said, if you have your heart set on one of the number grubbing institutions, you've gotta do what you've gotta do (but recognize that in every published average there is a distribution, and rarely if ever is a 33 going to be out of their bell curve).

Also recognize that there is plenty of judgment *against* people who retake high MCATs for the unsavory personal qualities it too often reflects.

 

[pietachok]

It looks like it might be 1) grade inflation or 2) a person who does not do well with that type of exam.

With a 33, more applicants do better on a retake than who do poorly. https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/admissionsadvisors/mcat_stats/

Esteemed LizzyM, I think it's important to look at the section score changes after re-take, not simply the overall score data. Each of his subset scores is more likely to stay the same or drop than to improve. You don't see better odds until you start hitting 8/9 for any section. I would wager that a fair number of the students with 33 who retook and improved had something unbalanced at least into that 9 region.

Just a thought. I would never have looked at this as a recommended re-take.

 

[LostinLift]

I retook a balanced 33, got at least 3 more points

 

[areserine]

OP, I think those "60% chance of scoring lower" stats are very skewed. Like you, I was scoring five points higher consistently on practice tests than on my first exam. By stats alone it looked like I should have gone down the second time, but that assumes that the first time was the best I could do when in fact it was clearly the outlier (this only really works if you took your practice tests under test conditions, not taking extra breaks, extra time, etc). I retook a score that most people wouldn't retake and was able to bring it up to my practice average. Those stats are great for people who were scoring say a 30 average on practice tests and hoped to bust out a 32 on the real deal and try to retake to get to a score they've never reached, but for people who score considerably lower on the real deal than their practice average, I think retaking isn't a huge gamble. Assuming you're willing to put in the study time to keep it fresh.

 

[pietachok]

OP, I think those "60% chance of scoring lower" stats are very skewed. Like you, I was scoring five points higher consistently on practice tests than on my first exam. By stats alone it looked like I should have gone down the second time, but that assumes that the first time was the best I could do when in fact it was clearly the outlier (this only really works if you took your practice tests under test conditions, not taking extra breaks, extra time, etc). I retook a score that most people wouldn't retake and was able to bring it up to my practice average. Those stats are great for people who were scoring say a 30 average on practice tests and hoped to bust out a 32 on the real deal and try to retake to get to a score they've never reached, but for people who score considerably lower on the real deal than their practice average, I think retaking isn't a huge gamble. Assuming you're willing to put in the study time to keep it fresh.

indeed, there's no way to know from the data why people have retaken & how confident they were that their score would improve. Given the stakes, however, aside from those with a very imbalanced section score to fix I can't imagine there are very many people retaking a 32+ score who didn't feel they had a compelling reason to believe they would do better. If we were talking about people retaking 20s, maybe you could assume those would be people who are poor at judging their preparedness, but scoring in the 30s probably reflects a better grasp on this process, and a group who collectively realizes it would be stupid to carelessly retake.

I think these are good questions to guide the decision:
http://www.ocs.fas.harvard.edu/students/careers/medicine/applicationprocess/mcat-retake.htm

 

[Goro]

Retaking an MCAT with a score that good is an exercise in hubris. And spare us the "I know I can do better" mentality. We all can do better, but when you're in the > 90th %ile, moving to 95th%ile doesn't add all that much. There is a much great risk that you do worse, or stay the same. Now, my learned colleague has posted a link to results for MCAT retakers, and the results for people who re-do a 33 aren't that encouraging. So you re-take and get a 34....thoughts?

Adcoms dislike perfectionists. There are tons of schools where you're highly competitive.

Sup guys. First post on SDN, so here it goes.

Background info in brief
Ethnicity: Asian male from CA
Top-20 University (per US News)
Neuroscience major
Overall GPA: 3.894, Science GPA: 3.890 (roughly calculated it myself for the BCPM classes)
Army ROTC (planning on applying for HPSP come October)
I'll be applying in the upcoming 2014-15 cycle.

MCAT taken on 09AUG2013. Overall: 33. PS 13, VR 10, BS10.
I have a few nagging questions on my mind.

1. I know that a 33 is a solid score, no doubts there. But I've averaged 36's on AAMC practice tests, and would like a few extra points just to make sure all my bases are covered come application time. By no means am I gunning for top-10 schools, but I've seen people with 40+'s get rejected from such schools right and left. I'm satisfied with a 13 on PS and 10 on Verbal. It's that 10 on bio that unnerves me. Should I retake for a few extra points on Verbal and Bio?

2. If I do retake, it'll have to be on 05JUN. Assume I submit AMCAS in early June (and get transcripts + letters in on time), would schools receiving scores in early July hinder me in terms of having applications completed and on time? Earlier is better seems to be the mantra according to peers who've already braved past cycles.

Thanks so much for your help guys. If I can think of any more questions I'll post them as they come up.

 

[Goro]

A red flag would be more like 3.9 GPA and a score in the 20s. That would imply poor standardized test taking skills (or serious knowledge decay).

Also, another question popped up. I've heard people talking about GPA/MCAT splitters, where one numeric is too high and the other too low.
Does a 3.9/33 get counted as a splitter, and raise any red flags? It seems as if the MCAT score doesn't really 'match up' to that GPA.
Just my thoughts, though.

 

[leesj3]

Hey again! Thought I'd give you guys an update after a LONG silence...
I chose to retake the MCAT, and got a 38 (14/11/13) this time!!! Yeah, super surprised about that.
Anyway, I'm in the thick of interviewing season right now. 17 invites so far and counting. Now if I could only have an acceptance...

See here for my mdapps profile (http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=29088). Best of wishes to all!

 

[leesj3]

Oh by the way, I'm the same guy as WinterSoldier93...apparently I've created 2 different SDN accounts. Weird huh?

 

[WinterSoldier93]

There I go! Sorry for the confusion, everyone.

 

[jorge47]

Wow, nice job man! I guess disregarding authority can pay off if you've got the skills to pay the bills

 

[ProudMD]

Congrats on your stellar application and 17 invites!

But...how on earth did you get rejected by USUHS???

 

[WinterSoldier93]

I have no idea either...I've long given up on expecting this cycle to make any sense.
Maybe because my stats are way above their average, and I talked extensively about my research during their interview. I don't want to call them anti-intellectual, but I got the vibe during interview day that the school's culture emphasizes patient care over research.
Honest at this point, I'm fine. My plan is to become a civilian physician while serving with a Reserve unit. I like the draw of a large, academic medical center like a Vandy, or a Duke, etc. I'm super stoked with all the invites I've had so far...especially JHU, which shocked me like no other.

 

[Boolean]

I have no idea either...I've long given up on expecting this cycle to make any sense.
Maybe because my stats are way above their average, and I talked extensively about my research during their interview. I don't want to call them anti-intellectual, but I got the vibe during interview day that the school's culture emphasizes patient care over research.
Honest at this point, I'm fine. My plan is to become a civilian physician while serving with a Reserve unit. I like the draw of a large, academic medical center like a Vandy, or a Duke, etc. I'm super stoked with all the invites I've had so far...especially JHU, which shocked me like no other.

Very impressive. Anything in particular you capitalized on during your second round of MCAT prep?

 

[WinterSoldier93]

TBH I was not serious at all the first time I prepped for the MCAT. Having gotten a 36 (13/11/12) on AAMC 3...which we know isn't very representative of MCATs nowadays, I was overconfident and studied only sporadically while taking all the practice tests though. The second time around, I postponed by lab job for about two months and did NOTHING but study. I also got the Princeton Review online content (which in addition to all the AAMC tests, has about 10 or so PR tests that are actually quite good). To be honest though, I was expecting only to increasing from a 33 to like a 35 or 36. Getting a 38 truly shocked me.

 

[Boolean]

TBH I was not serious at all the first time I prepped for the MCAT. Having gotten a 36 (13/11/12) on AAMC 3...which we know isn't very representative of MCATs nowadays, I was overconfident and studied only sporadically while taking all the practice tests though. The second time around, I postponed by lab job for about two months and did NOTHING but study. I also got the Princeton Review online content (which in addition to all the AAMC tests, has about 10 or so PR tests that are actually quite good). To be honest though, I was expecting only to increasing from a 33 to like a 35 or 36. Getting a 38 truly shocked me.

Thank you for the comprehensive response, and congratulations on the score (and the cycle you've had thus far!)

 

[WinterSoldier93]

Haha! Good luck with everything! Here's hoping that I get in somewhere...

 

[WinterSoldier93]

Alright everyone! I've officially decided on a school, and I'm beyond excited to be a part of Vanderbilt University School of Medicine's c/o 2019!!! WOOOT!!!

 

[deleted642188]

Alright everyone! I've officially decided on a school, and I'm beyond excited to be a part of Vanderbilt University School of Medicine's c/o 2019!!! WOOOT!!!

Congratulations!!! Wish you the best of luck!

 

[Theafoni]

Alright everyone! I've officially decided on a school, and I'm beyond excited to be a part of Vanderbilt University School of Medicine's c/o 2019!!! WOOOT!!!

Nice

 

[ridethecliche]

And to think op was going to delay by a year to retake mcat!

Congrats!