Army/Navy/Air Force Health Professions Scholarship Program

[goodoldalky]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this... but I'm sure it will get more views here, so here goes:

What do you all know about this program? All three branches have come to our school repeatedly to try and lure pre-meds with good MCAT scores into the program, but I'm skeptical.

I know they pay for EVERYTHING in medical school, plus a $1,300 monthly allowance. From what I've heard, it's anywhere from 4-7 years required service after completion of residency for whatever branch you did the HPSP through.. but I'm certain that there's more of a catch to it. They've got to get their money's worth.. right? Can they send you anywhere until those 7 years are up? Field hospital on a battlefield in Iraq?

Basically, does anyone know anyone who's done this HPSP? I tend to wonder what the actual experience is like. Maybe it's great, and totally worth it. Maybe you get stuck overseas for 7 years (not sure how the pay is...? maybe it's relatively poor?) and have trouble getting reintegrated into civillian medicine..?

Anyway, anyone with some PERSONAL info.. it would be much appreciated. Not suprisingly, everything on the internet is promotional and really positive - hard to wade through it though.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[xanthomondo]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this... but I'm sure it will get more views here, so here goes:

What do you all know about this program? All three branches have come to our school repeatedly to try and lure pre-meds with good MCAT scores into the program, but I'm skeptical.

I know they pay for EVERYTHING in medical school, plus a $1,300 monthly allowance. From what I've heard, it's anywhere from 4-7 years required service after completion of residency for whatever branch you did the HPSP through.. but I'm certain that there's more of a catch to it. They've got to get their money's worth.. right? Can they send you anywhere until those 7 years are up? Field hospital on a battlefield in Iraq?

Basically, does anyone know anyone who's done this HPSP? I tend to wonder what the actual experience is like. Maybe it's great, and totally worth it. Maybe you get stuck overseas for 7 years (not sure how the pay is...? maybe it's relatively poor?) and have trouble getting reintegrated into civillian medicine..?

Anyway, anyone with some PERSONAL info.. it would be much appreciated. Not suprisingly, everything on the internet is promotional and really positive - hard to wade through it though.

theres an entire military medicine forum on the main page

 

[goodoldalky]

theres an entire military medicine forum on the main page

Holy smokes.. never been down the page that far! Thanks man. I'll check it out.

 

[mvenus929]

I know you just got directed somewhere else, but I thought I'd mention a few things I've heard from my mom (she used to be in recruiting for the Army and nudges me every once and while to go that route).

- Don't do it unless you enjoy the idea of going into the military. Trust me, if you don't want to be in the military, you will be absolutely miserable.

- You will probably make better money in the civilian sector. The Army, at least, has to pay their doctors additional salary to keep them in.

- They can send you anywhere, as long as you are out of your residency. The service requirement is 1 year for every year they pay for, plus a year if you do a civilian residency. However, this commitment doesn't start until AFTER you finish your residency.

- On the opposite side, if you get lucky enough to serve state-side, you don't have to pay any malpractice insurance. Plus you get all your medical and dental paid for. If you get stationed abroad, you can get additional pay for hazard duty pay. You are also commissioned as an O3 when you come in, so you get the higher salary when you start.

Hope this helps anyone who's interested.

 

[baylormed]

By the way, they don't lure ONLY people with good scores. They lure anyone they can.

Everyone gets those brochures on the mail, and I'm pretty much all you have to do is sign and you are in (once you're accepted in medical school), regardless of scores.

 

[mvenus929]

By the way, they don't lure ONLY people with good scores. They lure anyone they can.

Everyone gets those brochures on the mail, and I'm pretty much all you have to do is sign and you are in (once you're accepted in medical school), regardless of scores.

Or you can go to the military med school (I never get the acronym right, so I'm not going to try), but you'd have to get accepted there too.

 

[colbgw02]

On the opposite side, if you get lucky enough to serve state-side, you will work good hours. Most army doctors only work 40 hours a week.

you got most of the stuff right, but i couldn't let this little nugget slide. most army doctors work significantly more than 40 hours a week. in fact, allowing for differences in location and specialty, i would say the work hours are on par with their civilian counterparts.

 

[lublufsb]

can you do anything prestigious while in the army? if you're a resident in a major hospital in california, you may get to see some cool people. You might even forge some connections. Are you severely limited by isolating yourself from your classmates for a period of 5-10years?

 

[mvenus929]

you got most of the stuff right, but i couldn't let this little nugget slide. most army doctors work significantly more than 40 hours a week. in fact, allowing for differences in location and specialty, i would say the work hours are on par with their civilian counterparts.

My mistake. I'm just quoting what my mom told me. I'll be sure to pass on the correction.

 

[Rydney]

I have been thinking about military medicine for a while myself, and have done about as much homework on it as any normal person has time for, and all I can say is know what you are getting into. You will make much, much less money, no matter what nonsense the recruiter tells you, you will most likely end up serving as a general medical officer BEFORE you go to your residency, which means they don't have to give you a bonus, which is small enough as it is, you will be told what to do by nurses who outrank you, the patient in many cases will come second to "the needs of the military," etc, etc. The cons against military medicine are many, to say nothing of family life. You have to ask yourself if you see serving in the military as a high enough honor to outweigh all the dishonor of the military itself. If not, I would not consider it. In all fairness you will make so much more money as a civilian doctor you will in all likeliness support your country more through your taxes than you will as a military doctor. It sounds like a joke, but I'm quite serious.

 

[njbmd]

Moving to military medicine for better comment from people who are in these programs.

 

[stepinnemo]

I currently have an HPSP scholarship for next year. It's a 4 year scholarship (although there is also a three year scholarship). The time committment after the med school is 4 years. My scholarship is with the airforce, so all I can tell you is what their commitment (and benefits) are. You can be deployed overseas (like to iraq or someplace crazy like that) for 45 days for each 18 months that you are on the scholarship. The rest of the time, you will be on a base in the U.S./Western Europe etc. This means that by the time I finish med school I could be sent to iraq for about 4 months...not too bad if you ask me. While in school I get about $1300 a month. But, during the summers you are sent to commissioned officers training (not at all like your usual basic training) for 30 days. During this time you are paid full pay for whatever your rank is (usually 2nd lieutenant). This means that you will probably make about $20,000 a year while in school.

Now for the money aspect....you will make less money in the military than you would if you were out in the real world once you finish medical school. However, you must realize that you will have no debt to pay on, whereas other people will be forking over around $10,000-$20,000 a year to their student loan companies. Plus, you did earn around $80,000 while you were in medical school (which obviously other people didn't). Given these considerations I'm fairly certain that I'm going to break even, and possibly be a little bit ahead of everyone else. If however you choose to do a millitary residency instead of a civilian residency, you are going to make about double the money (around $65k a year instead of $30k). This is because your rank will be raised to after med school (and therefore your pay goes up a LOT). Also, because you are military, you get a lot of benefits-health insurance, dental insurance, reduced cost food (buy on base), reduced cost housing (live on base)...etc, etc, so by the time everything is said and done, you are going to be WAY ahead (in terms of money) of all of the people that went the traditional route

 

[USAFdoc]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this... but I'm sure it will get more views here, so here goes:

What do you all know about this program? All three branches have come to our school repeatedly to try and lure pre-meds with good MCAT scores into the program, but I'm skeptical.

I know they pay for EVERYTHING in medical school, plus a $1,300 monthly allowance. From what I've heard, it's anywhere from 4-7 years required service after completion of residency for whatever branch you did the HPSP through.. but I'm certain that there's more of a catch to it. They've got to get their money's worth.. right? Can they send you anywhere until those 7 years are up? Field hospital on a battlefield in Iraq?

Basically, does anyone know anyone who's done this HPSP? I tend to wonder what the actual experience is like. Maybe it's great, and totally worth it. Maybe you get stuck overseas for 7 years (not sure how the pay is...? maybe it's relatively poor?) and have trouble getting reintegrated into civillian medicine..?

Anyway, anyone with some PERSONAL info.. it would be much appreciated. Not suprisingly, everything on the internet is promotional and really positive - hard to wade through it though.

the military certainly NEEDS you (they need anyone they can get) because they currently have the WORST healthcare system in the United States.

You can view my thread on "AVOID MILITARY MEDICINE". Also, talk with active military docs on their first tour in a US clinic. 99.9% of the time expect to hear things that ought to convince you to stay clear of military medicine at this time. Call me if you have any questions.

 

[dtn3t]

My scholarship is with the airforce, so all I can tell you is what their commitment (and benefits) are. You can be deployed overseas (like to iraq or someplace crazy like that) for 45 days for each 18 months that you are on the scholarship. The rest of the time, you will be on a base in the U.S./Western Europe etc. This means that by the time I finish med school I could be sent to iraq for about 4 months...not too bad if you ask me.

Is that really true of the AF? 4 months total, not at a time? I'm Army so I don't know the fine print for AF, but it just sounds too good to be true to me.

 

[Gooble]

This is one helluva anti-military thread. I think this site is probably ridiculously biased if you are decided if the scholarship program is worth it. My uncle had med. school paid for by the Army, as did a friend's father with the Navy. I have never heard it to be nearly as horrible as you anti-military types make it. Obviously you can be deployed, THEY PAID FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL AND YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY.

 

[iatrosB]

This is one helluva anti-military thread. I think this site is probably ridiculously biased if you are decided if the scholarship program is worth it. My uncle had med. school paid for by the Army, as did a friend's father with the Navy. I have never heard it to be nearly as horrible as you anti-military types make it. Obviously you can be deployed, THEY PAID FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL AND YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY.

New to the forum?

 

[iatrosB]

Is that really true of the AF? 4 months total, not at a time? I'm Army so I don't know the fine print for AF, but it just sounds too good to be true to me.

Absolutely not! I think this person is confused between the 45 days of ADT served during medical school and the obligations of active duty service. That or the recruiter was really "good".

 

[The White Coat Investor]

This is one helluva anti-military thread. I think this site is probably ridiculously biased if you are decided if the scholarship program is worth it. My uncle had med. school paid for by the Army, as did a friend's father with the Navy. I have never heard it to be nearly as horrible as you anti-military types make it. Obviously you can be deployed, THEY PAID FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL AND YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY.

Who wants first crack?

 

[iatrosB]

Who wants first crack?

 

[colbgw02]

You can be deployed overseas (like to iraq or someplace crazy like that) for 45 days for each 18 months that you are on the scholarship. The rest of the time, you will be on a base in the U.S./Western Europe etc. This means that by the time I finish med school I could be sent to iraq for about 4 months...not too bad if you ask me.

seriously though, "good to have you aboard, simpson." - chief wiggum

 

[The White Coat Investor]

can you do anything prestigious while in the army? if you're a resident in a major hospital in california, you may get to see some cool people. You might even forge some connections.

And that is why I signed up! All the prestigious patients! The connections! Living the high life!

 

[Homunculus]

This is one helluva anti-military thread. I think this site is probably ridiculously biased if you are decided if the scholarship program is worth it. My uncle had med. school paid for by the Army, as did a friend's father with the Navy. I have never heard it to be nearly as horrible as you anti-military types make it. Obviously you can be deployed, THEY PAID FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL AND YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY.

the military medical system we are in now post 9/11 is not your father's or your uncle's military. i researched prior to taking HPSP (seeing that i already had a ROTC obligation) and while everyone dealt with day to day military headaches, the vast majority of the docs i spoke with at MEDCENS and MEDDACS were relatively happy. deployment tempo was low, the PROFIS system sounded not too bad and GMO's were being phased out. this was fall of 1999.

fast forward to today, and line units are deploying every other year, the PROFIS system is broken, navy GMO's are as strong as ever, the AF is bringing back mandatory GMO's for non-categorical postitions, and the Army is sending pediatric subspecialists to be GMO's instead retention rates are abysmal, and AHLTA is absorbing everything in sight. not to mention our pay is lagging more and more behind the civilian sector.

while it's not the end of the world, things are not what recruiters are selling, and i think it's good for people to learn the harsh realities of what they're getting into before signing up. people here aren't anti-military-- they're pro good medicine. everyone here wants the same thing-- good medical care for our troops and a medical system physicians can be happy in. sounds like a good goal to me

--your friendly neighborhood 8 months 'til attending-hood caveman

 

[former military]

And that is why I signed up! All the prestigious patients! The connections! Living the high life!

No doubt about it... Gooble knows... touching the hot stove is not a big deal... it doesn't hurt... people who have touched the hot stove and say it hurts are biased, whiners. Go ahead and touch it. I would

 

[USAFdoc]

This is one helluva anti-military thread. I think this site is probably ridiculously biased if you are decided if the scholarship program is worth it. My uncle had med. school paid for by the Army, as did a friend's father with the Navy. I have never heard it to be nearly as horrible as you anti-military types make it. Obviously you can be deployed, THEY PAID FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL AND YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY.

those sound like the same stories I heard BEFORE I did my active duty tour as a family doc.

I cannot vouch for exactly what the conditions were when and were your uncles did their time, but I absolutely vouch for the fact that conditions as we speak, and for the past 5+ years are UNACCEPTABLE to any physician who gives a care about quality.

Obviously we deploy, while not a fun thing, you will NEVER see that a reason that I describe military medicine they way I do.

And I do not consider myself and other PHYSICIANS on this site "anti-military". We are however "anti- BAD MEDICINE" and that is what the current situation is. If you have any uncles currently active clinical docs in the USAF, give them a call and expect the same description 99% of the docs on the site give you.

 

[Gooble]

It seems like most of these threads are referring to AF medicine. What about the other branches?

Also, what if you specialize in something like general surgery or radiology, or isn't that an option?

It really is a shame if it is as bad as it comes across on here. I volunteered for service in the past and would happily do so again, especially with free medical school on the table.

 

[USAFdoc]

It seems like most of these threads are referring to AF medicine. What about the other branches?

Also, what if you specialize in something like general surgery or radiology, or isn't that an option?

It really is a shame if it is as bad as it comes across on here. I volunteered for service in the past and would happily do so again, especially with free medical school on the table.

I was previously enlisted US NAVY before; we worked our butt off but it was a quality program (Nuclear) and the "right stuff" was done, right decisions made. What I witnessed first hand in the USAF Medical world was "RECKLESS" at best. This is not to say everything is 100% bad, 100% of the time....but it IS to say that no doc committed to quality would even consider staying in, and no medical student if they knew what was the reality of how military medicine currently operates, would consider trading in some loans for 4 years of frustration, patients placed at unneccesary risk, gross undermanning, and admin consistently making decisions that appeared to be more about promotion and metrics rather than patient safety.

 

[VolatileNavyDoc]

you will most likely end up serving as a general medical officer BEFORE you go to your residency, which means they don't have to give you a bonus, which is small enough as it is,

Agreed... It is small enough, but you do get a bonus and a special pay while a GMO. You just get 2 extra bonuses/pays instead of the 4 or 5 a board certified physician gets. You only get one special pay while in residency (VSP). In the long run, if you do a GMO, you come out behind financially. Well, this really depends on how you manage your money, if you moonlight, etc... But the cold cash is less over 8 years if you do a GMO then do residency as opposed to doing a residency and then practicing.

 

[Homunculus]

It seems like most of these threads are referring to AF medicine. What about the other branches?

Also, what if you specialize in something like general surgery or radiology, or isn't that an option?

It really is a shame if it is as bad as it comes across on here. I volunteered for service in the past and would happily do so again, especially with free medical school on the table.

the branches all have their different problems. we just happen to have some rather vocal ex AF folks.

your question of specializing is one of the issues. let's say you're dead set on radiology. let's say your service doesn't need any (or only need a few) your GME year. hasta la vista radiology, hola GMO. similarly, let's say you are a relatively competitive fellowship applicant-- if they don't foresee a need for you, then you won't get one. recruiters simply don't know enough about the process, and applicants don't know to ask.

besides, it's not free-- not at all. you pay with years of your life, lol.

--your friendly neighborhood 8 years of life = undergrad + medschool caveman

 

[Rydney]

I currently have an HPSP scholarship for next year. It's a 4 year scholarship (although there is also a three year scholarship). The time committment after the med school is 4 years. My scholarship is with the airforce, so all I can tell you is what their commitment (and benefits) are. You can be deployed overseas (like to iraq or someplace crazy like that) for 45 days for each 18 months that you are on the scholarship. The rest of the time, you will be on a base in the U.S./Western Europe etc. This means that by the time I finish med school I could be sent to iraq for about 4 months...not too bad if you ask me. While in school I get about $1300 a month. But, during the summers you are sent to commissioned officers training (not at all like your usual basic training) for 30 days. During this time you are paid full pay for whatever your rank is (usually 2nd lieutenant). This means that you will probably make about $20,000 a year while in school.

Now for the money aspect....you will make less money in the military than you would if you were out in the real world once you finish medical school. However, you must realize that you will have no debt to pay on, whereas other people will be forking over around $10,000-$20,000 a year to their student loan companies. Plus, you did earn around $80,000 while you were in medical school (which obviously other people didn't). Given these considerations I'm fairly certain that I'm going to break even, and possibly be a little bit ahead of everyone else. If however you choose to do a millitary residency instead of a civilian residency, you are going to make about double the money (around $65k a year instead of $30k). This is because your rank will be raised to after med school (and therefore your pay goes up a LOT). Also, because you are military, you get a lot of benefits-health insurance, dental insurance, reduced cost food (buy on base), reduced cost housing (live on base)...etc, etc, so by the time everything is said and done, you are going to be WAY ahead (in terms of money) of all of the people that went the traditional route

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to see your math on this. I've seen many people add up the numbers, and I've done it myself, and it doesn't even come close. The residency pay is higher in the civilian sector than what you are quoting, and if you quote 65k a year in residency for a military doc. you have to subtract the on base housing, because that 65k includes housing assistance. This is all a few thousand dollar increments anyway, and when you compare military with civilian salaries you get into hundred thousand dollar increments. So by the time everything is said and done a civilian doc. is WAY ahead, not the other way around. Have you really added it all up or are you just pro-military? which is okay, it just shouldn't blind you to the truth about the money issue.

 

[IgD]

Rydney, check out http://www.hpsp.net/index.php?title=HPSP for more info.

 

[VolatileNavyDoc]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to see your math on this. I've seen many people add up the numbers, and I've done it myself, and it doesn't even come close. The residency pay is higher in the civilian sector than what you are quoting, and if you quote 65k a year in residency for a military doc. you have to subtract the on base housing, because that 65k includes housing assistance. This is all a few thousand dollar increments anyway, and when you compare military with civilian salaries you get into hundred thousand dollar increments. So by the time everything is said and done a civilian doc. is WAY ahead, not the other way around. Have you really added it all up or are you just pro-military? which is okay, it just shouldn't blind you to the truth about the money issue.

Yeah, I think the "numbers" probably don't add up one for one over time. If you are strictly primary care, you might actually get pretty close... depending on what kind of job you get out of residency. The solo FP where I am sees about 10 patients a day, gets free ski passes, has 2 hour lunches, sets his own schedule, has essentially no call and still makes about 130K (counting housing). The pay is definitely not up to par with a busy FP doing exercise stress tests, doing colposcopy, and seeing a busy clinic, but there are some definite extra benefits. This is not the norm, just the scenario with which I am most familiar.

The residency pay is what it is. I would argue that you should probably add a little because of the housing allowance. After all, everybody gets it, it's not taxed, and if you buy a house, you get to write all that interest off on your income at the end of the year.

Also, personally, I was able to have 2 kids during med school relatively stress free. I will be debt free at the end of a GMO, and I have a pretty robust investment plan that will (hopefully) keep growing. All said, I should be able to comfortably retire at age 47, no matter what specialty I do... if I decide to stay in. Of course, this all depends on your idea of comfort. I'm pretty comfortable living off 100K a year, and I live in California. Some would think this is not enough.

I'm no financial guru, but the main advantage HPSP gives you is time. You can start investing earlier and you don't incur a lot of debt early on. This still doesn't cut it for the high paid specialties, but the majority of physicians won't be making much over 200K in the end. There are huge negative intangibles that can be involved with joining the military. I agree, that if you strictly add up the numbers over time, military doctors come out way behind civilian doctors, especially in the medecal specialties. In any event, any financial gain you get from smart long term investing is offset by being miserable for a period of time (about 8 years).

 

[orbitsurgMD]

It really is a shame if it is as bad as it comes across on here. I volunteered for service in the past and would happily do so again, especially with free medical school on the table.

Don't kid yourself. Nothing the military does regarding HPSP is free. Your supposedly "free" education has lots of strings attached. You will do the service they ask you to do, get trained when they say you can be trained (or not at all, in most cases), get paid what they choose to pay you--which is below market rates for all services except resident training and some primary care specialties.

If you know the deal ahead of time and are at peace with a system that has neither the resources nor the inclination to provide training to its physician accessions at the level expected and available to civilian practitioners, then you might not mind. That doesn't mean however that because they have not provided you complete residency training that they will not perversely expect you to practice as if they did. I don't know what comfort you will find with that.

Unfortunately, the military medical systems are sorry and faded shadows of the respectable institutions they once were. They have been starved, cut back, right-sized, down-sized, joint-serviced, and out-serviced to the point that they are not the examples of quality and reliability they once were. Sadly, that hasn't prevented those who recruit for more young would-be doctors from dishonestly claiming the opposite.

 

[Rydney]

The residency pay is what it is. I would argue that you should probably add a little because of the housing allowance. After all, everybody gets it, it's not taxed, and if you buy a house, you get to write all that interest off on your income at the end of the year.

When I looked it all up, and saw that you come into residency as an 0-3, the 65k a year was all inclusive of every cent a captain (I'm thinking of the army) can make. That was housing, uniform pay, etc, etc. If there has been a pay increase very recently I could be off some, but the housing allowance was included in the 65k. Once again, not arguing here, I am just trying to get everything straight before I make my own decision, so if I've got something wrong I appreciate being corrected.

 

[VolatileNavyDoc]

When I looked it all up, and saw that you come into residency as an 0-3, the 65k a year was all inclusive of every cent a captain (I'm thinking of the army) can make. That was housing, uniform pay, etc, etc. If there has been a pay increase very recently I could be off some, but the housing allowance was included in the 65k. Once again, not arguing here, I am just trying to get everything straight before I make my own decision, so if I've got something wrong I appreciate being corrected.

You are exactly right. My point was just that it's fair to include housing in the pay when comparing military to civilian residency pay... unless the residency also gives a housing allowance (I think some do). Furthermore, the housing pay isn't taxed, so you are really getting more than that amount if you are comparing it to taxed pay. If you are a civilian resident in San Diego, you're probably making about 45K (I think that's about what civilian residents make) total to pay for everything you need. If you are a military resident in San Diego, you're making a little over 65K to pay for everything you need. My experience (in 8 years service) has been that housing pay is usually enough to pay rent, but not enough to pay for a mortgage, but the tax break you get from the mortgage usually makes it just about break even if you own.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this... but I'm sure it will get more views here, so here goes:

What do you all know about this program? All three branches have come to our school repeatedly to try and lure pre-meds with good MCAT scores into the program, but I'm skeptical.

I know they pay for EVERYTHING in medical school, plus a $1,300 monthly allowance. From what I've heard, it's anywhere from 4-7 years required service after completion of residency for whatever branch you did the HPSP through.. but I'm certain that there's more of a catch to it. They've got to get their money's worth.. right? Can they send you anywhere until those 7 years are up? Field hospital on a battlefield in Iraq?

Basically, does anyone know anyone who's done this HPSP? I tend to wonder what the actual experience is like. Maybe it's great, and totally worth it. Maybe you get stuck overseas for 7 years (not sure how the pay is...? maybe it's relatively poor?) and have trouble getting reintegrated into civillian medicine..?

Anyway, anyone with some PERSONAL info.. it would be much appreciated. Not suprisingly, everything on the internet is promotional and really positive - hard to wade through it though.

Run, run screaming.....don't look back, don't ask any questions.....just handle anything from the military like you would if it was coated with anthrax spores.

 

[former military]

I got five out of six anthrax shots before they decided they were a bad idea. Are they doing them again. I always thought the chances of getting anthrax were so tiny.... like getting a vaccine to prevent being struck by a meteor

immunization story... we gave hormone shots in our clinic both testosterone and lupron (anti- T) shots. This smart ass veteran would always come in and say to the new tech... "you wouldn't give a guy that shot in the eye would you?" the tech would say no and stand there... then the guy would drop his pants where he had two large anatomically accurate eyeballs on his ass- one one each cheek.

I will save my worse penis tattoo to hijack a future nasty thread gone too serious.

Peace not pieces

 

[USAF MD '05]

I currently have an HPSP scholarship for next year. It's a 4 year scholarship (although there is also a three year scholarship). The time committment after the med school is 4 years. My scholarship is with the airforce, so all I can tell you is what their commitment (and benefits) are. You can be deployed overseas (like to iraq or someplace crazy like that) for 45 days for each 18 months that you are on the scholarship. The rest of the time, you will be on a base in the U.S./Western Europe etc. This means that by the time I finish med school I could be sent to iraq for about 4 months...not too bad if you ask me. While in school I get about $1300 a month. But, during the summers you are sent to commissioned officers training (not at all like your usual basic training) for 30 days. During this time you are paid full pay for whatever your rank is (usually 2nd lieutenant). This means that you will probably make about $20,000 a year while in school.

Dude- Read your contract again. You will never deploy to Iraq during med school. Your TDY will be to a teaching facility where you will spend approximately 30 days doing a rotation just like you do in your clinical years of med school. COT is a one time deal, usually before med school starts or after your first year. You deploy during your payback, and you go for a lot longer than 45 days at a time. Most in the AF are going 4-6 months at a time, and you can count on 2-3 or even more deployals if the current ops tempo remains. That totals > 1 out of your 4 in the sandbox. Just don't want you to freak when you realize that you signed your life away to something that you had no clue about. Good luck. Steve

 

[Homunculus]

Dude- Read your contract again. You will never deploy to Iraq during med school. Your TDY will be to a teaching facility where you will spend approximately 30 days doing a rotation just like you do in your clinical years of med school. COT is a one time deal, usually before med school starts or after your first year. You deploy during your payback, and you go for a lot longer than 45 days at a time. Most in the AF are going 4-6 months at a time, and you can count on 2-3 or even more deployals if the current ops tempo remains. That totals > 1 out of your 4 in the sandbox. Just don't want you to freak when you realize that you signed your life away to something that you had no clue about. Good luck. Steve

i'm glad someone cleared that up.

--your friendly neighborhood dreaming of 45 day deployments caveman

 

[MedicalCorpse]

You deploy during your payback, and you go for a lot longer than 45 days at a time. Most in the AF are going 4-6 months at a time, and you can count on 2-3 or even more deployals if the current ops tempo remains. That totals > 1 out of your 4 in the sandbox. Just don't want you to freak when you realize that you signed your life away to something that you had no clue about. Good luck. Steve

True, BUT...

See the thread on consolidation of the Military Medical Corpses (sic).

The Army deploys for a year. The Army is the largest service. Any bets as to how long the deployments to Iran and N. Korea will be?

1) The 90 days initially promised us by the Aerospace Expeditionary Farce
2) The 120 days deployments morphed to post-9/11
3) The 179 days many Air Force folks are subjected to now
4) The one year standard the Army sets for maximum utilization of a minimum number of undertrained, inexperienced, unsupported M.D.s

Ding ding ding...

That is correct...

--
R

 

[Rydney]

Agreed... It is small enough, but you do get a bonus and a special pay while a GMO. You just get 2 extra bonuses/pays instead of the 4 or 5 a board certified physician gets. You only get one special pay while in residency (VSP). In the long run, if you do a GMO, you come out behind financially. Well, this really depends on how you manage your money, if you moonlight, etc... But the cold cash is less over 8 years if you do a GMO then do residency as opposed to doing a residency and then practicing.

So is the 65K often quoted as a resident's salary inclusive of the bonuses you actually get while in residency, or does a military resident make more than that?

 

[VolatileNavyDoc]

So is the 65K often quoted as a resident's salary inclusive of the bonuses you actually get while in residency, or does a military resident make more than that?

65K would be about right for an all inclusive salary, including housing, and VSP ($100/mo intern year and ~$400/mo PGY2+). It still depends on where you live, as BAH (housing) can vary greatly based on region. Your pay is also a lot more if you have prior service. It would be safe to say that pay is probably between $50 - 67K a year. (BAH in Hawaii is a LOT more than Fayetteville).

 

[former military]

65K would be about right for an all inclusive salary, including housing, and VSP ($100/mo intern year and ~$400/mo PGY2+). It still depends on where you live, as BAH (housing) can vary greatly based on region. Your pay is also a lot more if you have prior service. It would be safe to say that pay is probably between $50 - 67K a year. (BAH in Hawaii is a LOT more than Fayetteville).

would you guess the increase in BAH in Hawaii vs Fayetville is in line with the cost of living... say you needed to buy a 9$ gallon of milk or a $3.55 gallon of gas? If you live in Alaska, Hawaii, or California you are taking it on the chin vs San Antonio or AZ, or ButtF rural bases.

 

[Al4short]

The Scholarship provides you with a monthly stipend of a little more than $1300. You go to med school full-time and concentrate on maintaining your grades for 10.5 months per year. The other 6weeks are spent in a Military Treatment Facility, working with the Doctors. During your 4th year of med school, you apply for the Match, (both national and military-whichever branch is paying your scholarship). Then you go on to your Residency. You can not be deployed while you are in med school or your Residency. After you finish, the pay back is 1 year for each year of the scholarship and 1 year for each year of Residency, but, they are paid back concurrently. So, the obligation ends up being the longer of the 2.

 

[Al4short]

You people sure are anti-military medicine. I also keep hearing about money, maybe you need to get the facts about your future as a doc. Malpractice as a civilian doc can really cut into what you make. It runa anywhere from $50,000- $150,000 a year, depending on what you specialize in. Military docs don't pay malpractice insurance. They also aren't limited in what they can do for a patient by an HMO. Army Hospitals are State of the Art, despite what you may have heard. And, if any of you are looking at the HPSP scholarship, Have your recruiter take you on a tour of one of their hospitals, they can do that.
As far as the differences between the services, the scholarship is the same for all 3 branches that offer it, it's the residency portion that's very different. The Army doesn't use GMOs, so you get your residency right after med school. Not so in the Navy! The Army also has the most number of available residencies of the 3 services.

 

[edinOH]

I'm gonna grab my pop corn and get comfortable...

 

[orbitsurgMD]

You people sure are anti-military medicine. I also keep hearing about money, maybe you need to get the facts about your future as a doc. Malpractice as a civilian doc can really cut into what you make. It runa anywhere from $50,000- $150,000 a year, depending on what you specialize in. Military docs don't pay malpractice insurance. They also aren't limited in what they can do for a patient by an HMO. Army Hospitals are State of the Art, despite what you may have heard. And, if any of you are looking at the HPSP scholarship, Have your recruiter take you on a tour of one of their hospitals, they can do that.
As far as the differences between the services, the scholarship is the same for all 3 branches that offer it, it's the residency portion that's very different. The Army doesn't use GMOs, so you get your residency right after med school. Not so in the Navy! The Army also has the most number of available residencies of the 3 services.

You sound just like an . . . Army recruiter.

If you aren't, then post your creds. Are you a doctor in civilian practice? Have you practiced in the military? Are you even a doctor at all?

I am a former military doctor and now a civilian. I can tell you that your post is BS. My malpractice premiums are nothing like what you are posting. And the Army does use GMOs, they just deny it. The Army is the largest of the three services and always had more hospitals and training slots, even before the Air Force and Navy let their programs dry up. That isn't making much of a claim. And besides, with most retirees being sent through Tricare to civilian doctors, the case mix and practice exposure in Army training programs isn't what it used to be either.

So deny it if you are not a recruiter. Because you sure sound like one, right down to your lies and misinformation.

 

[delicatefade]

Army Hospitals are State of the Art, despite what you may have heard....

You sure you want to say that about some of the Army community hospitals?

The Army doesn't use GMOs, so you get your residency right after med school.

This is only half true. It's true that it is less likely for you to be utilized as a GMO right out of medical school in the Army. BUT, you can certainly be used as a GMO once you finish residency, regardless of your specialty. I recently spoke to a current Army AD physician who is NOT in any field of primary care but was deployed as a GMO. A colleague of his has been deployed 3 times as a GMO. Again, neither of these physicians are in primary care (FP, Peds, IM or any IM subs, OB/GYN, EM)

 

[Croooz]

I'm gonna grab my pop corn and get comfortable...

Ditto.

 

[dtn3t]

You people sure are anti-military medicine. I also keep hearing about money, maybe you need to get the facts about your future as a doc.

Hahahaha! What else can you tell me about my future as a doc?

My recruiter left me high and dry after I signed on. For any of you looking at the HPSP scholarship, don't trust your recruiter.

Army Strong!

 

[GMO2003]

You sure you want to say that about some of the Army community hospitals?



This is only half true. It's true that it is less likely for you to be utilized as a GMO right out of medical school in the Army. BUT, you can certainly be used as a GMO once you finish residency, regardless of your specialty. I recently spoke to a current Army AD physician who is NOT in any field of primary care but was deployed as a GMO. A colleague of his has been deployed 3 times as a GMO. Again, neither of these physicians are in primary care (FP, Peds, IM or any IM subs, OB/GYN, EM)

I'll be sure to inform the 6 other army GMOs that are with me OCONUS that we don't and in fact are not supposed to exist