Army pilot considering HPSP

[theman1990]

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I've taken a little time to peruse this forum, but figured I'd just outright ask and see what current thoughts are.

As for me, I am currently and O2E in the Army, serving in Kandahar, Afghanistan as and Attack Helicopter Pilot (AH-64A's). I am accepted and deferred into the 2007 class at ETSU. I have 11 years in this year, and have thought about taking the HPSP. However, EVERY single doc I have talked to here has said the same thing, RUN LIKE THE WIND! At the VERY least to wait until I'm board certified, THEN talk to the military.

I'm just wondering current opinons on Army medicine, and would you take the HPSP given the current state of the military?

 

[Galo]

I've taken a little time to peruse this forum, but figured I'd just outright ask and see what current thoughts are.

As for me, I am currently and O2E in the Army, serving in Kandahar, Afghanistan as and Attack Helicopter Pilot (AH-64A's). I am accepted and deferred into the 2007 class at ETSU. I have 11 years in this year, and have thought about taking the HPSP. However, EVERY single doc I have talked to here has said the same thing, RUN LIKE THE WIND! At the VERY least to wait until I'm board certified, THEN talk to the military.

I'm just wondering current opinons on Army medicine, and would you take the HPSP given the current state of the military?

Seems like you have already gotten good advice, and from CURRENT ACTIVE DUTY PHYSICIANS. I emphasize that because in this forum there seems to be a lack of current active duty physicians posting, and those of us who are out, have experience, and post it here, are sometimes called out with doubt.

No reason you can't get your training, and then depending on the military climate, join back up, or the reserves. You give up too many freedoms for your medical career if you continue on to HPSP. I think its great that you posted what current military physicians advised you on.

Continue reading the pro/con section, avoid military medicine, decline of miltary medicine, and OH, you already talked to active duty people!!

Perhaps you can elaborate on exactly what their current gripes are about in order for them to advice you not to contine into military medicine.

Thanks

 

[IgD]

I've taken a little time to peruse this forum, but figured I'd just outright ask and see what current thoughts are.

As for me, I am currently and O2E in the Army, serving in Kandahar, Afghanistan as and Attack Helicopter Pilot (AH-64A's). I am accepted and deferred into the 2007 class at ETSU. I have 11 years in this year, and have thought about taking the HPSP. However, EVERY single doc I have talked to here has said the same thing, RUN LIKE THE WIND! At the VERY least to wait until I'm board certified, THEN talk to the military.

I'm just wondering current opinons on Army medicine, and would you take the HPSP given the current state of the military?

HPSP is like the ultimate scenario for you. As a military resident, you are going to be paid as an O3E+11. I think that you will get half credit for your time in service so its possible the day you start your internship you would be in zone for promotion to O4. Your internship and residency will count towards your retirement. So by the end of your training period you will have about 15 years in. Do your utilization tour, go somewhere else and it will be time to retire.

The major concern I see is that the military influences what specialty you can go into.

Your base pay would be about 59k per year. (This would not include BAS, housing allowance and VSP). Most interns base pay would be 39k per year.

You might not get accepted for the scholarship. Other posters here with a similar situation have been rejected. I suspect this was because they don't want to pay you the increased salary.

On the other hand, do you have the GI bill? If so you can use it to finance a civilian residency program.

 

[dpill]

I don't think you will have trouble getting a scholarship if you decide you want one. The services are having trouble filling them right now. I had to get an "age waiver" and still got one. I made my decision to take HPSP after 13 years as a pilot in the AF partially based on the advice/ opinions of the AF docs I knew personally (granted mostly flight docs). Not all experiences are as bad as some expressed on this site, but the climate is tough right now- for docs, pilots, and most everyone else in the military (unless you are a big fan of the desert). Would you be getting out of the Army if you weren’t going to med school? If you are hoping for a "better" life as a military physician, I wouldn't count on it. My decision was based primarily on the fact military residency and payback will take me to retirement and the cost of my tuition is very high. ETSU has relatively low tuition- so the cost advantage of having your med school paid for may not weigh into your decision as much as it did mine. Reserves when you graduate is an option, but not a good one if "stability" is one of the reasons weighing against going back in. My advice is to keep talking to people on active duty and make your decision with realistic expectations. The good news is you have a long time before you need to make your decision!

 

[militarymd]

I've taken a little time to peruse this forum, but figured I'd just outright ask and see what current thoughts are.

As for me, I am currently and O2E in the Army, serving in Kandahar, Afghanistan as and Attack Helicopter Pilot (AH-64A's). I am accepted and deferred into the 2007 class at ETSU. I have 11 years in this year, and have thought about taking the HPSP. However, EVERY single doc I have talked to here has said the same thing, RUN LIKE THE WIND! At the VERY least to wait until I'm board certified, THEN talk to the military.

I'm just wondering current opinons on Army medicine, and would you take the HPSP given the current state of the military?

You said it yourself....what else do you need to hear?

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

I was in a similar boat. 11 yrs AD (USAF not USA and all O-time, no E) and decided to go the HPSP route. IMHO, the people who do most of the bitchin' and moanin' on this thread went into the military not knowing the kind of BS they would have to put up with. With all your AD time, you should be able to figure out whether or not it is worth it to you. Personally, I decided that the personal satisfaction of serving a higher calling, going places a civie doc would never go (even the crappy ones!), and doing things a civie doc would never do outweighed the other stuff. BTW, I'm an MS-1 at Quillen, so PM me if you have any questions about the school or J.C. Just my 2 cents!

 

[USAFGMODOC]

I have a buddy who was a prior army scout helo pilot, he did his first 2 years and now is applying for the USAF pilot physician program.... In order to get this, you have to have had wings prior to med school and there are limited slots, but for some who want to continue flying, it is cool... There are several I have met in this program (C-17), C-130, and I who got a fighter slot as well as a helo guy.

Something else to think about....

 

[Gene_]

IMHO, the people who do most of the bitchin' and moanin' on this thread went into the military not knowing the kind of BS they would have to put up with. With all your AD time, you should be able to figure out whether or not it is worth it to you.

Well said. I thought about it for a while, but in the end the BS lost and I stayed civilian.

 

[pgg]

I think that you will get half credit for your time in service so its possible the day you start your internship you would be in zone for promotion to O4.

I don't think so. He's an O2E, so he's got zero time as an O3.

One of my USUHS classmates was a pilot who had a few years as an O3, wen to USUHS (demoted to O1), graduated and was promoted to O3 like the rest of us, did his internship, and was in zone. He picked up O4 about 6 months after his internship. But my understanding is that only happened because he already had time as an O3.

 

[USAFGMODOC]

I don't think so. He's an O2E, so he's got zero time as an O3.

One of my USUHS classmates was a pilot who had a few years as an O3, wen to USUHS (demoted to O1), graduated and was promoted to O3 like the rest of us, did his internship, and was in zone. He picked up O4 about 6 months after his internship. But my understanding is that only happened because he already had time as an O3.

He gets 1/2 time credit for the time he has served as a commissioned officer so if it was 3 years as an Officer, he gets 1/2 credit. Now the caveat is if he is a Warrant Officer---- he doesn't get anything for service credit towards early promotion to Major, but he does have Time in Service for pay purposes and the E-pay benefit (I had 10 enlisted and 4 commissioned)....

 

[chopperdoc]

I'm still shocked an AH-64 guy could get into medical school! Just a little cross-airframe rivalry from a CH-47D guy. I think alot of good things have been said, you certainly get alot of bitchin' and moanin' on this chat board. I was in your shoes three years ago and I went HPSP -- I'm very glad I did! The biggest question you've got to answer is how bad do you want to be in the Army. Forget about the schorlarship and all the other stuff, you've been in the Army long enough to know what it is like, so the decision should be easy for you. The Army needs good docs!

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Well said. I thought about it for a while, but in the end the BS lost and I stayed civilian.

Roger that. Once I got a taste of civilian life, I had to think long and hard about my decision to stay in. I guess the military is just in my blood.

 

[grumbo]

This may or may not be a factor, but you said that every doc you talked to "here" (Kandahar) said to run away. Have you talked to docs when not deployed?

 

[theman1990]

I was in a similar boat. 11 yrs AD (USAF not USA and all O-time, no E) and decided to go the HPSP route. IMHO, the people who do most of the bitchin' and moanin' on this thread went into the military not knowing the kind of BS they would have to put up with. With all your AD time, you should be able to figure out whether or not it is worth it to you. Personally, I decided that the personal satisfaction of serving a higher calling, going places a civie doc would never go (even the crappy ones!), and doing things a civie doc would never do outweighed the other stuff. BTW, I'm an MS-1 at Quillen, so PM me if you have any questions about the school or J.C. Just my 2 cents!

Cool.... they told me about you when I interviewed there, too. Said you deferred a while b/c ya had to keep flying? I was worried they might not let me defer.

 

[USAFdoc]

I was in a similar boat. 11 yrs AD (USAF not USA and all O-time, no E) and decided to go the HPSP route. IMHO, the people who do most of the bitchin' and moanin' on this thread went into the military not knowing the kind of BS they would have to put up with. With all your AD time, you should be able to figure out whether or not it is worth it to you. Personally, I decided that the personal satisfaction of serving a higher calling, going places a civie doc would never go (even the crappy ones!), and doing things a civie doc would never do outweighed the other stuff. !

actually, the "things I would never do" are not the deployments, far off places (even crappie ones) etc. Heck, those are the obvious things I knew I was getting into. What I would never do, or at least not want to do is practice in USAF Primary care, the way the USAF does its business. I would rather be deployed etc. The sad state of USAF Primary care is what I had no idea I was getting into.

my 2 cents

 

[theman1990]

I'm still shocked an AH-64 guy could get into medical school! Just a little cross-airframe rivalry from a CH-47D guy. I think alot of good things have been said, you certainly get alot of bitchin' and moanin' on this chat board. I was in your shoes three years ago and I went HPSP -- I'm very glad I did! The biggest question you've got to answer is how bad do you want to be in the Army. Forget about the schorlarship and all the other stuff, you've been in the Army long enough to know what it is like, so the decision should be easy for you. The Army needs good docs!

Ouch... does the army REALLY need any more overweight docs? Hahah...

Check around with some of your buddies. I met a doc in flight school who got tired of being a doc, and was finishing his 47AQC. Apparently, when his HPSP committment was up, he told them he was gone.... soooo... they asked if there was ANY way he could stay. Apparently, he gets to be a pilot for six years, then has to be a doc again....

Wonder who gets the better deal!

 

[militarymd]

Ouch... does the army REALLY need any more overweight docs? Hahah...

Check around with some of your buddies. I met a doc in flight school who got tired of being a doc, and was finishing his 47AQC. Apparently, when his HPSP committment was up, he told them he was gone.... soooo... they asked if there was ANY way he could stay. Apparently, he gets to be a pilot for six years, then has to be a doc again....

Wonder who gets the better deal!

An organization that allows someone to stop practicing for 6 years...then come back as a doc again....????????

What about CME? What about skills?????

Oh wait...we're talking about military medicine....those things aren't important....

 

[alpha62]

You continue to keep your flight pay going as a rated aviator won't you?

I've worked with a few docs, former rotary wing pilots. They're in for the long haul. The BS on the army medical side just didn't seem to bother them.

I did get the feeling they weren't all that worried about their medical skills and just looked at the whole thing as just another assignment and change of duty station, inching along toward retirement as their eyes on the prize.