Army Surgeon General

[Gern Blansten]

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The new Army Surgeon General is neither a surgeon, nor a general (not even a doctor). Discuss.

Talk amongst yourselves.








Pssst,......I'll give you a hint........she is a CRNA

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Interim surgeon general who was the outgoing surgeon general's assistant.

Doubtful she will be a permanent appointment.

 

[loveumms]

I couldn't find anything naming her THE army surgeon general, just deputy SG. Dr. Kiley is still listed as being the surgeon general even on the army website and I found many quotes from him in the media from very recently.

I don't agree with a CRNA in a position that should be reserved for a physician however, she does have quite an impressive resume.

"MG Gale S. Pollock became the U.S. Army Deputy Surgeon General in October 2006. MG Pollock received a Bachelor of Science in Nursing from the University of Maryland. She attended the U.S. Army Nurse Anesthesia Program and is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (DRNA). She received her Master of Business Administration from Boston University; a Master's in Healthcare Administration from Baylor University, a Master's in National Security and Strategy from the National Defense University, and an honorary Doctorate of Public Service from the University of Maryland. She is also a Fellow in The American College of Healthcare Executives (FACHE)."

http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/leaders/pollock.html


Just an interesting tid-bit: Dr. Carmona, the 17th surgeon general of the US public health service was a nurse (along with a paramedic) and was quoted saying, "One of the reasons that President Bush nominated me to be Surgeon General was because he had heard that I was a former nurse. Of course I had to tell him that he'd been given some incorrect information. I said, "Sir, there's no such thing as a 'former nurse.' I'm a nurse. Once a nurse, always a nurse!".

 

[foxtrot]

The main question I have is why is the deputy surgeon general a CRNA? From what I understand this position is next in the chain of command underneath the surgeon general (correct me if I am wrong since I am not in the military). Shouldn't this position belong to a physician? Has a physician always held this position until recently? I am not saying she is not intelligent or well trained but wtf, she is not a physician.

 

[rn29306]

I couldn't find anything naming her THE army surgeon general, just deputy SG. Dr. Kiley is still listed as being the surgeon general even on the army website and I found many quotes from him in the media from very recently.

I don't agree with a CRNA in a position that should be reserved for a physician however, she does have quite an impressive resume.

"MG Gale S. Pollock became the U.S. Army Deputy Surgeon General in October 2006. MG Pollock received a Bachelor of Science in Nursing from the University of Maryland. She attended the U.S. Army Nurse Anesthesia Program and is a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (DRNA). She received her Master of Business Administration from Boston University; a Master's in Healthcare Administration from Baylor University, a Master's in National Security and Strategy from the National Defense University, and an honorary Doctorate of Public Service from the University of Maryland. She is also a Fellow in The American College of Healthcare Executives (FACHE)."

In addition...

Pollock's last position was Commanding General, Tripler Army Medical Center,
Pacific Regional Medical Command, U.S. Army Pacific Surgeon; and Lead Agent,
TRICARE Pacific, Honolulu, Hawaii. Her military education includes the
Department of Defense CAPSTONE Program; the Senior Service College at the
Industrial College of the Armed Forces; the U.S. Air Force War College; the
Interagency Institute for Federal Health Care Executives; the Military
Health System CAPSTONE program; the Principles of Advanced Nurse
Administrators; and the NATO Staff Officer Course.

Her past military assignments include Special Assistant to the Surgeon
General for Information Management and Health Policy; Commander, Martin Army
Community Hospital, Fort Benning, Ga.; Commander, U.S. Army Medical
Activity, Fort Drum, N.Y.; Staff Officer, Strategic Initiatives Command
Group for the Army Surgeon General; Department of Defense Healthcare Advisor
to the Congressional Commission on Service Members and Veterans Transition
Assistance; Health Fitness Advisor at the National Defense University;
Senior Policy Analyst in Health Affairs, DoD; and Chief, Anesthesia Nursing
Service at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C.

Pollock's awards and decorations include the Distinguished Service Medal,
Legion of Merit (with 2 oak leaf clusters), the Defense Meritorious Service
Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal (with 4 oak leaf clusters), the Joint
Service Commendation Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, and the Army
Achievement Medal. She earned the coveted Expert Field Medical Badge, and is
proud to wear the Parachutist Badge. She received the Army Staff
Identification Badge for her work at the Pentagon and earned the German
Armed Forces Military Efficiency Badge "Leistungsabzeichen" in gold.

 

[The_Sensei]

In addition...

Pollock's last position was Commanding General, Tripler Army Medical Center,
Pacific Regional Medical Command, U.S. Army Pacific Surgeon; and Lead Agent,
TRICARE Pacific, Honolulu, Hawaii. Her military education includes the
Department of Defense CAPSTONE Program; the Senior Service College at the
Industrial College of the Armed Forces; the U.S. Air Force War College; the
Interagency Institute for Federal Health Care Executives; the Military
Health System CAPSTONE program; the Principles of Advanced Nurse
Administrators; and the NATO Staff Officer Course.

Her past military assignments include Special Assistant to the Surgeon
General for Information Management and Health Policy; Commander, Martin Army
Community Hospital, Fort Benning, Ga.; Commander, U.S. Army Medical
Activity, Fort Drum, N.Y.; Staff Officer, Strategic Initiatives Command
Group for the Army Surgeon General; Department of Defense Healthcare Advisor
to the Congressional Commission on Service Members and Veterans Transition
Assistance; Health Fitness Advisor at the National Defense University;
Senior Policy Analyst in Health Affairs, DoD; and Chief, Anesthesia Nursing
Service at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C.

Pollock's awards and decorations include the Distinguished Service Medal,
Legion of Merit (with 2 oak leaf clusters), the Defense Meritorious Service
Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal (with 4 oak leaf clusters), the Joint
Service Commendation Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, and the Army
Achievement Medal. She earned the coveted Expert Field Medical Badge, and is
proud to wear the Parachutist Badge. She received the Army Staff
Identification Badge for her work at the Pentagon and earned the German
Armed Forces Military Efficiency Badge "Leistungsabzeichen" in gold.

Blah, blah, blah......bottom line - she's a NURSE. I hope, like others have alluded to, that this is temporary.

 

[OB1🤙]

I think that there should be legislation passed that CRNAs may practice autonomously, but only if they have earned both a Parachutist Badge and a gold Leistungsabzeichen Badge. And they have to spell it right from memory.

I'd be interested in the ASA's thoughts on this.

 

[bigdan]

Wow. A military efficiency badge.

dc

 

[jwk]

There was another recent thread similar to this. Supposedly the armed forces differentiate between the administrative and clinical sides of medicine. A nurse can be in charge of a unit for administrative functions, but the physician still remains in charge and responsible for clinical decision-making.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

In addition...

Pollock's last position was Commanding General, Tripler Army Medical Center,
Pacific Regional Medical Command, U.S. Army Pacific Surgeon; and Lead Agent,
TRICARE Pacific, Honolulu, Hawaii. Her military education includes the
Department of Defense CAPSTONE Program; the Senior Service College at the
Industrial College of the Armed Forces; the U.S. Air Force War College; the
Interagency Institute for Federal Health Care Executives; the Military
Health System CAPSTONE program; the Principles of Advanced Nurse
Administrators; and the NATO Staff Officer Course.

Her past military assignments include Special Assistant to the Surgeon
General for Information Management and Health Policy; Commander, Martin Army
Community Hospital, Fort Benning, Ga.; Commander, U.S. Army Medical
Activity, Fort Drum, N.Y.; Staff Officer, Strategic Initiatives Command
Group for the Army Surgeon General; Department of Defense Healthcare Advisor
to the Congressional Commission on Service Members and Veterans Transition
Assistance; Health Fitness Advisor at the National Defense University;
Senior Policy Analyst in Health Affairs, DoD; and Chief, Anesthesia Nursing
Service at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C.

Pollock's awards and decorations include the Distinguished Service Medal,
Legion of Merit (with 2 oak leaf clusters), the Defense Meritorious Service
Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal (with 4 oak leaf clusters), the Joint
Service Commendation Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, and the Army
Achievement Medal. She earned the coveted Expert Field Medical Badge, and is
proud to wear the Parachutist Badge. She received the Army Staff
Identification Badge for her work at the Pentagon and earned the German
Armed Forces Military Efficiency Badge "Leistungsabzeichen" in gold.

I wouldn't want to take credit for being commander of Tripler if I were her. That has been one of the worst hospitals in the military system.

 

[pgg]

Blah, blah, blah......bottom line - she's a NURSE. I hope, like others have alluded to, that this is temporary.

It is not uncommon for nurses or non-physician "medical service corps" types to be placed in positions of authority over physicians ... including command of military hospitals.

A nurse can be in charge of a unit for administrative functions, but the physician still remains in charge and responsible for clinical decision-making.

That's the way it's supposed to work ... but decisions made by administrators have a way of impacting the delivery of care.

Suffice it to say I don't think either patients or military physicians are well served by such arrangements.

 

[Stimulate]

There are a lot of CRNAs in the military who out-rank young physician officers. They start out as officers just like physicians and over time they rise through the ranks/pay grades. This is normal procedure. Depending on where you are in the timeline you may be outranked by nurses but you are still the MD/DO.

I agree with the above post that the military is a totally different system, and certainly not an ideal one. Also, don't interpret a decision to put her in command as necessarily the correct decision either. Many of the current leadership are of today may be part of the problem so just promoting the next people in-line may not be the right approach.

In light of the current controversy with military healthcare, I wouldn't want to be an administrator or surgeon general of anything. Lots of long days testifying to senate sub-committees in her future...

 

[Conflicted]

Interesting.

Now if this wasent a CRNA then it would never have made it to this forum.

Here is the thing, she was chosen for her administrative skills. Running and managing a hospital system isnt and never has been done by physicians but often is and has been by RNs with buisness degrees.

Just b/c you have an MD/DO or RN/CRNA behind your name does not make you capable of running a hospital, experience and business training does.

 

[IN2B8R]

"Running and managing a hospital system isnt and never has been done by physicians but often is and has been by RNs with buisness degrees."

Gee, I used to be a nurse! Never have I seen "nurses with business background run a hospital!" That's certainly news to someone who spent many years in nursing! Can you please name several examples for me? I'm an MD pain attending now. Medically speaking, what I knew as a nurse was easily surpased by what I knew as a second year medical student. Funny how I used to think that I knew everything as a nurse, only to later find out that it is a different league when it comes to going to medical school, residency and fellowship. The repetition of nursing--i.e., being a CRNA--is by no means equivalent to understanding pathophysiology, anatomic pathology, pharmacology, genetics, biostatistics/epidemiology....etc., etc.... I can think of at least ten other 'ologies. And when it's all said and done, if you want to play "doctor," and reap everything that comes along with having that title (good and bad),then go out there and get a fuggin MD degree, like I did. End of sermon.

 

[MacGyver]

The main question I have is why is the deputy surgeon general a CRNA? From what I understand this position is next in the chain of command underneath the surgeon general (correct me if I am wrong since I am not in the military). Shouldn't this position belong to a physician? Has a physician always held this position until recently? I am not saying she is not intelligent or well trained but wtf, she is not a physician.

The military doesnt work that way. The only thing that matters in the military is your rank and experience level.

If you work as a nurse for 25 years in the military you will outrank and have command over any doctor who's been there for less. Its a totally screwed up system. Military hospitals are run by commanders that are almost always NOT doctors. Hell some of them are just technicians. I believe respiratory techs are in charge of several military hospitals.

The military routinely gives supervision authority to nurses over doctors simply because the nurses stay in the military system much longer, whereas most docs want to get the hell out ASAP. We're not just talking administrative authority either, we are talking CLINICAL authority. These nurses write medical practice regulations that influence clinical care. They are not just paper pushers like a hospital CEO would be.

 

[Conflicted]

Hmm

Not a "CRNA vs MDA" argument here at all, why you brought it up in a derogatory manner i have no idea.

Nurses are involved in the board of directors in hospitals across the country. They run the day to day operations and often become COOs and CEOs post MBA in healthcare admin.

I have no idea where u worked or for how long. This isnt an argument its just a fact.

5 seconds doing a google search finds THIS as one of thousands of examples.

This was not (is not) a discussion about MD vs RN nor should it be. Physicians get as much management education in school as RNs do (that would be none). As a rule, physicians do not aspire to management since it is not lucrative. RNs often move up the chain internally as they make more money in management positions.

"Running and managing a hospital system isnt and never has been done by physicians but often is and has been by RNs with buisness degrees."

Gee, I used to be a nurse! Never have I seen "nurses with business background run a hospital!" That's certainly news to someone who spent many years in nursing! Can you please name several examples for me? I'm an MD pain attending now. Medically speaking, what I knew as a nurse was easily surpased by what I knew as a second year medical student. Funny how I used to think that I knew everything as a nurse, only to later find out that it is a different league when it comes to going to medical school, residency and fellowship. The repetition of nursing--i.e., being a CRNA--is by no means equivalent to understanding pathophysiology, anatomic pathology, pharmacology, genetics, biostatistics/epidemiology....etc., etc.... I can think of at least ten other 'ologies. And when it's all said and done, if you want to play "doctor," and reap everything that comes along with having that title (good and bad),then go out there and get a fuggin MD degree, like I did. End of sermon.

 

[IN2B8R]

Brought what up in a "derogatory" manner? You were the one who started your thread with reference/defence of the CRNA background! I do agree with you about the business background as essential, regardless of wether it is MD/RN. But don't delude yourself, an RN degree vs an MD degree is no match in terms of which of the two will land a CEO position first. I am not attacking nursing, just saying that an MD degree basically qualifies you for much more. And your Google reference is not what I call a national reference. Nurses are nurses, nothing wrong with a noble title/profession. I accepted that when I was an RN. I moved onto being an MD because I thought it would qualify me for more. Sort of like going from high school to graduate school. Yeah you knew $hit when you were in H.S., but that was only the tip of the iceburg and true knowledge came only after medical school and residency. As for physician's getting "as much management education as nurses in medical school," you are DEAD wrong: I graduated with an MD/MBA. There are tons of medical schools that offer dual degrees, in case you were not aware.... As for the "management being not lucrative" part, you clearly sound like a non-physician/non-business minded. I run/manage other pain physicians. I don't have a qualified RN or anyone else doing that. Why? Because it IS financially lucrative for me to do it by myself. Our surgical center is run/owned/managed by an MD group, the head of which is myself. Nursing has input in all hospitals, but please, don't make all hospital CEO position seem like easy reach for "qualified RN's." That simply is not the truth.

Hmm

Not a "CRNA vs MDA" argument here at all, why you brought it up in a derogatory manner i have no idea.

Nurses are involved in the board of directors in hospitals across the country. They run the day to day operations and often become COOs and CEOs post MBA in healthcare admin.

I have no idea where u worked or for how long. This isnt an argument its just a fact.

5 seconds doing a google search finds THIS as one of thousands of examples.

This was not (is not) a discussion about MD vs RN nor should it be. Physicians get as much management education in school as RNs do (that would be none). As a rule, physicians do not aspire to management since it is not lucrative. RNs often move up the chain internally as they make more money in management positions.

 

[MacGyver]

I think there's a very good chance she is named the permanent surgeon general.

You guys have to remember, the military just like the rest of hte govt is obsessed with affirmative action. They have strict racial and gender quotas in place. They regularly promote females to generals/admirals/etc who have absolutely zero combat experience.

Dont be surprised when she is named to the position. They will hold press conferences touting the woman as the first surgeon general, how a female will turn Walter Reed around, you get the picture. I'm sure it will be a great photo op for hte liberal feminists like Pelosi to tout the virtues of a woman general.

 

[Conflicted]

Hey

I think we have miscommunicated.

I simply mentioned that the only reason it was noted in this forum is b/c it was a CRNA, there was no defense of education or attack it was just a statement.

Management of a private company and that of a hospital are 2 very different things in regards to salary and bonuses. I was referring to hospital CEO COO VP positions of which more are held by RNs simply b/c the pay is not typically worth it for MD/DOs.

Congratz on having an MD/MBA. I made the comment that generally, medical and rn schools have no buisness training and this is true. As of 2001 only 33 medical schools had dual MBA programs as options.

I did not say or suggest that all hospital CEO COO VP positions were held by RN. What i did say was 'thousands' were, which is true. RNs hold these positions more commonly than physicians due to the salary and bonus structure of them.

In anycase, the entire point was that it is not so uncommon for RNs to hold these positions in hospitals.

Brought what up in a "derogatory" manner? You were the one who started your thread with reference/defence of the CRNA background! I do agree with you about the business background as essential, regardless of wether it is MD/RN. But don't delude yourself, an RN degree vs an MD degree is no match in terms of which of the two will land a CEO position first. I am not attacking nursing, just saying that an MD degree basically qualifies you for much more. And your Google reference is not what I call a national reference. Nurses are nurses, nothing wrong with a noble title/profession. I accepted that when I was an RN. I moved onto being an MD because I thought it would qualify me for more. Sort of like going from high school to graduate school. Yeah you knew $hit when you were in H.S., but that was only the tip of the iceburg and true knowledge came only after medical school and residency. As for physician's getting "as much management education as nurses in medical school," you are DEAD wrong: I graduated with an MD/MBA. There are tons of medical schools that offer dual degrees, in case you were not aware.... As for the "management being not lucrative" part, you clearly sound like a non-physician/non-business minded. I run/manage other pain physicians. I don't have a qualified RN or anyone else doing that. Why? Because it IS financially lucrative for me to do it by myself. Our surgical center is run/owned/managed by an MD group, the head of which is myself. Nursing has input in all hospitals, but please, don't make all hospital CEO position seem like easy reach for "qualified RN's." That simply is not the truth.

 

[IN2B8R]

Point well taken.

In anycase, the entire point was that it is not so uncommon for RNs to hold these positions in hospitals.

 

[BuddhaCanooda]

One thing of note is that while she was at Tripler there was a great deal of tension between CRNA/MDAs over supervision. I found it very odd that CRNAs were trying to go after more complicated cases (not something I had seen in private and this is the military...) Altogether I am not certain she will be named Surgeon General since the position traditionally has gone to MDs. Just watch the media field day if a non-MD gets the post.

I go back on Active Duty after residency, let's see how this Walter Reed shakeup progresses...

bc

 

[MacGyver]

Just watch the media field day if a non-MD gets the post.

The only "field day" there's goign to be is a bunch of crap about how its the first woman to hold the position. Thats the only angle the media sees on this.

 

[OffPiste]

This woman is not going to be the next Surgeon General. No way, in the wake of a military meltdown so scrutinized by the media, with implications that reach to the White House, will there be a non physician appointed to this post. It simply won't happen. It would be a political hot potato, and Bush, who is struggling as it is, will not take this risk. Think of the by line, "President short changes troops by allowing a nurse to take charge of the health of our troops..." The fact that she is a woman is immaterial, the fact that she is a nurse is the point. Put an MD behind her name, and her success as an administrator would probably earn her the post. Presidential posts like surgeon general, attorney general, supreme court justice, are highly political.

 

[islandbear]

Get Wise. US Army regulations do NOT say that the Surgeon General of the Army has to be a surgeon, nor does he / she have to be a physician. This is high level administration of the Army Medica Corps.This is not a clinical position requiring an MD. It is the Administration of the Army Medical Corps. It looks like lots of boy-doctors are a little afraid of a woman AND a nurse in such an important position. Such insecurities! Regarding who gets the permanent position of Army Surgeon General. I say let the most qualified administrator win! Another example from the army...A "Flight Surgeon" neither a surgeon nor a physician.

 

[jwk]

Get Wise. US Army regulations do NOT say that the Surgeon General of the Army has to be a surgeon, nor does he / she have to be a physician. This is high level administration of the Army Medica Corps.This is not a clinical position requiring an MD. It is the Administration of the Army Medical Corps. It looks like lots of boy-doctors are a little afraid of a woman AND a nurse in such an important position. Such insecurities! Regarding who gets the permanent position of Army Surgeon General. I say let the most qualified administrator win! Another example from the army...A "Flight Surgeon" neither a surgeon nor a physician.

I thought the medical corps and nursing corps were two entirely different branches of the health services.

 

[OffPiste]

Get Wise, please refrain from the patronizing tone. The post of the Surgeon General of the United States is not simply for, as you put it, "the best administrator." Quite the contrary. This is the highest medical post of the United States Government. I could care less if the next surgeon general was a woman. The fact remains, he or she, should be a board certified physician. To think that someone other than a physician will be the next surgeon general is wishful thinking on the part of those who would like to advance nursing agendas.

There was a backlash after Bush's first woman nominee to the supreme court was thought not be "qualified enough" because she did not go to Yale or Harvard Law school, but rather, SMU. Come on folks, do you honestly think a similar backlash would not occur if a nurse was named the next surgeon general? Fabulous administrator or not, the next surgeon general will be a physician. Sorry, just how it will be.

 

[Conflicted]

I think this will be interesting to watch.


As many know im not a physician. I would say that i'm a traditionalist. Right or wrong I personally feel that if the title is going to remain "surgeon" then the person should be a physician. (or change the title).

 

[jwk]

Get Wise, please refrain from the patronizing tone. The post of the Surgeon General of the United States is not simply for, as you put it, "the best administrator." Quite the contrary. This is the highest medical post of the United States Government. I could care less if the next surgeon general was a woman. The fact remains, he or she, should be a board certified physician. To think that someone other than a physician will be the next surgeon general is wishful thinking on the part of those who would like to advance nursing agendas.

There was a backlash after Bush's first woman nominee to the supreme court was thought not be "qualified enough" because she did not go to Yale or Harvard Law school, but rather, SMU. Come on folks, do you honestly think a similar backlash would not occur if a nurse was named the next surgeon general? Fabulous administrator or not, the next surgeon general will be a physician. Sorry, just how it will be.

Uh, I think you're confused -this thread was about the Surgeon General of the Army, not the Surgeon General of the United States. Two entirely different offices in different branches of the service.

 

[islandbear]

My posting should have read Surgon General of the United States ARMY.Sorry for the typo. I am aware of the difference between the US Surgeon General and the Surgeon General of the US Army. Back to THE POINT- There is s no requirement that the Surgeon General of the US Army has to be a physician, board certified or otherwise as jwk alleges.
Also- Yes, the Army Nurse corps IS a separate entity. MG Pollock happens by coincidence to be the chief of the ANC as well as the interim surgeon General of the Army.
What ever gossip BuddhaCanooda is repeating about conflicts between MDAs and CRNAs at Tripler Army Medical center is just that. Gossip. Unfounded with no basis in fact. The CRNA / MD relationship at TAMC was excelent and remains so. That's no gossip. That's true.

 

[Coastie]

The base backlash against Harriet Miers, Bush's SCOTUS nom, was over her shoddy conservative credentials, not where she went to law school.

Just for the record.

http://www.nationalreview.com/editorial/editors200510141544.asp

Get Wise, please refrain from the patronizing tone. The post of the Surgeon General of the United States is not simply for, as you put it, "the best administrator." Quite the contrary. This is the highest medical post of the United States Government. I could care less if the next surgeon general was a woman. The fact remains, he or she, should be a board certified physician. To think that someone other than a physician will be the next surgeon general is wishful thinking on the part of those who would like to advance nursing agendas.

There was a backlash after Bush's first woman nominee to the supreme court was thought not be "qualified enough" because she did not go to Yale or Harvard Law school, but rather, SMU. Come on folks, do you honestly think a similar backlash would not occur if a nurse was named the next surgeon general? Fabulous administrator or not, the next surgeon general will be a physician. Sorry, just how it will be.

 

[Coastie]

I'm also confused why the Surgeon General of The Army is a nurse, and not a physician.

Per Wikipedia:

"Congress established the Medical Service of the Continental Army on July 27, 1775 and emplaced a "Chief physician & director general" of the Continental Army as its head at that time. The first five “surgeons general” of the U.S. Army served under this title.

An Act of May 28, 1789 established a "Physician general" of the U.S. Army (only Doctors Richard Allison and James Craik served according to this nomenclature). An Act of March 13, 1813 cited the "Physician & surgeon general" of the U.S. Army. This nomenclature remained in place until the U.S. Army Medical Corps (or Medical Department) was established by the Reorganization Act of April 14, 1818. (Physicians assigned to the U.S. Army were not accorded military rank until 1847.)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon_General_of_the_United_States_Army

 

[islandbear]

1775...1789...1818....Lots of things have changed since then. For example...You do NOT have to be a physician to be the Surgeon General of the US Army. (1996) in case anyone was wondering when that slipped through. Only 11 years ago. So, let who ever is best qualified be the next Surgeon General of the US Army and let's stop all this male/ female doctor / nurse squabbling. It's so very low-budget!

 

[Coastie]

Uh..Rules are rules.

Perhaps they have changed, but I was setting out what I found online.

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to post the updated amendments to the protocols.

 

[OffPiste]

Islandbear: please let us know if you are a physician or a nurse, or a medical student...I for one would like to know your bias...And no, physician vs. nurse is not so low budget as you would like to say, but simply a matter of qualification. I certainly feel that only physicians should hold these posts.

 

[Conflicted]

hey offiste


I actually agree with you but ill ask some questions for argument sake and i think it will be fun. (no bashing intended or implied)

Why would a MD/DO be better in this position since its 100% administrative?

How would it matter?

 

[islandbear]

My point exactly. Let's get the right PERSON in the job and done with the prejudice.
As for the esteemed "Off Piste: ' I am not off piste myself. I am rather on la piste de la verite. Don Quichotte ici, trying to right the wrongs with NO bias. None whatsoever. It's never polite to bash.
Also I for one think physicians should be out taking care of the infirmed not meddling with high level government administration. Do you know that the Army Medical Command includes dentists and vets? What tragedy indeed (in your eyes) if instead of a physician some "drill, fill, and bill" doctor became the Surgeon General of the Army..or even worse a Horse doctor?? All within the realm of possibility my dear proclaiming one. Proclaim proclaim, proclaim! doctor,doctor, doctor! "full of sound and fury" comes to mind.
(This is fun)

 

[OffPiste]

Fine, if you want to use this type of logic, why would you want anyone trained in medicine at all in the post of Surgeon General? If is is soley administrative, surely an MBA without any medical knowledge should thus be the next Surgeon General, as long as he/she is effective right?

Of course this is not the case. The highest medical post in the US Army should be reserved (and will be filled) with the most highly trained MEDICAL officer, a physician.

 

[OffPiste]

You never answered islandbear, what is your background?
Your bias is remarkable.

 

[islandbear]

I work for the Federal Government and my background is Romance Language Studies, Phonetics, Linguistics and an EdD. Perhaps you can tell me what is so "remarkable' about my bias? I insist I have no bias. As for piste qui mene a l'enfers...YOUR QUOTE The highest medical post in the US Army should be reserved (and will be filled) with the most highly trained MEDICAL officer, a physician
Where do you get your information? A Crystal Ball? Guess work? You like to proclaim a lot don't you? Who will be the next pope? Who will Win the World Cup? You got the surgeon general thing all expertly worked out, you and your tarot cards... so how about going three for three? Pope? World Cup?

 

[Gern Blansten]

Nurses should be surgeon generals. Security guards should also be police chiefs. Paralegals who do the best legal case research should be partners, no heads, of law firms. Orderlies with really good leadership skills and excellent clipboard carrying abilities should be promoted to head of nursing. Paramedics that can intubate well should be chairs of academic emergency medicine departments. It all makes sense to me now. I am not sure why the rest of you can't see this as clearly as I do now.

 

[Kubed]

Nurses should be surgeon generals. Security guards should also be police chiefs. Paralegals who do the best legal case research should be partners, no heads, of law firms. Orderlies with really good leadership skills and excellent clipboard carrying abilities should be promoted to head of nursing. Paramedics that can intubate well should be chairs of academic emergency medicine departments. It all makes sense to me now. I am not sure why the rest of you can't see this as clearly as I do now.

 

[Conflicted]

again

its an administrative position and has nothing to do with medicine.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I agree with you. I hope that some day we can elect a nurse as surgeon general of the universe. It is an idea whose time has come.

 

[eutopia CRNA]

"Running and managing a hospital system isnt and never has been done by physicians but often is and has been by RNs with buisness degrees."

Gee, I used to be a nurse! Never have I seen "nurses with business background run a hospital!" That's certainly news to someone who spent many years in nursing! Can you please name several examples for me? I'm an MD pain attending now. Medically speaking, what I knew as a nurse was easily surpased by what I knew as a second year medical student. Funny how I used to think that I knew everything as a nurse, only to later find out that it is a different league when it comes to going to medical school, residency and fellowship. The repetition of nursing--i.e., being a CRNA--is by no means equivalent to understanding pathophysiology, anatomic pathology, pharmacology, genetics, biostatistics/epidemiology....etc., etc.... I can think of at least ten other 'ologies. And when it's all said and done, if you want to play "doctor," and reap everything that comes along with having that title (good and bad),then go out there and get a fuggin MD degree, like I did. End of sermon.[/quote


Baptist Hospital system in San Antonio, TX. One of the largest in the state. The CEO is a RN, PhD.

 

[OffPiste]

Again I repeat, if it is solely an administrative post, why have anyone with any medical training at all as the Surgeon General? Hell, Jack Welch would be great for the job, I mean he was on mean mofo at GE...

It is quite possible that someone with no medical training and great business savvy would have better administrative skills....This is not the point, the Surgeon General is a medical post, with implications the cross between medicine, business, politics. Nurses, no matter how effective at adminstrative tasks, do not have the same medical knowledge, nor the political clout as physicians. Isolated examples in the private sector may exist, which are anecdotal at best, but this is the United States Army which functions under a whole different set of circumstances.

 

[Conflicted]

hey Off

Well what you said isnt actually true.

The Surgeon General of the United States Army is the senior-most medical corps officer in the U.S. Army. In recent times, this has been a Lieutenant General who serves as Commanding General, U.S. Army Medical Command (MEDCOM) and head of the U.S. Army Medical Department (AMEDD).

One dosent have to be a physician to be the Army Surgeon Gen.

The AMEDD includes the Medical Corp (doctors), The Nurse Corp, dentists and Vets to name the big ones. All of which are eligible to be the Surgeon general. Again, its not a physician post.

 

[islandbear]

😴 Conflicted! YOU'RE CORRECT!!
...I said it in reponse to Off Piste way back on 3/19. It is entirely possible a dentist or a vet could be our next Surgeon General of the US Army! Doctors are only a PART of AMEDD! Why is off piste so prejudiced against nurses? Did
some nurse Ratchett bean you with a bed pan as a child??
Let's take this again now OffPiste slowly ...you...don't ....have...to...be...a...physician...to....be....the...surgeon..
general...of...the....Army. Personally I don't care who gets the job, as long as it's the most qualified person. Someone please come up with something NEW on this subject?

hey Off

Well what you said isnt actually true.



One dosent have to be a physician to be the Army Surgeon Gen.

The AMEDD includes the Medical Corp (doctors), The Nurse Corp, dentists and Vets to name the big ones. All of which are eligible to be the Surgeon general. Again, its not a physician post.