Army

[croco]

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Has anyone taken into consideration joining the army after dental school?

Is there any benefits that they provide besides paying for your school?

Mo, you should start answering your pms btw😀

 

[comatose]

good question. I'd like to know too.

 

[ShawnOne]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before...

http://members.tripod.com/~softballteam/dental.html

This website does an awesome job of overviewing the UOP experience and life as an Army dentist. Very informative. Enjoy

 

[Reed1978]

I'm going into the army after dental school. it's really a great deal. you enter as a captain once you graduate, and right now the starting pay is 70G a year...but you don't pay for housing and all that crap - not really anyway if you live on base. you also get to travel around the world, which by the way the army pays for...they move all your stuff, car, dogs, furniture, everything!! for free! also, you get a bare minimum of 5G's extra a year for every year you put in after your 4 years in the army, and you can get up to about 15G's extra a year depending on your credentials as a dentist and as an officer.

another cool thing...if you stay in the army for 20 years and retire, you get half of your salary for the rest of your life as retirement. so, you could quite easily receive up to 100G every year which is nice - plus, your family and kids and what not get free medical. so if your wife needs a heart transplant...it's free. you also get about 1500 dollars a month stipend - at least, that's what it will be in august of 2004, and it goes up by 150 bucks a month every june...so august of 2005 you get a monthly stipend of 1650 to spend on your appartment, food, gas, whatever.

all in all...it's a great deal - not to mention that you will get a ton of dental experience working in the army!!

 

[ShawnOne]

I beleive its been proven many times that the Army is not beneficial financially. If its just something you wanna do, thats another story.

 

[vishal_k32801]

Army is not beneficial financially, but its a safe bet. You get less
dollars over years but no loans. So by luck if you don't do good
as dentist, you have no debts!

 

[ShawnOne]

What does that mean? How is that a "safe bet"?

Originally posted by vishal_k32801
Army is not beneficial financially, but its a safe bet. You get less
dollars over years but no loans. So by luck if you don't do good
as dentist, you have no debts!

 

[Midoc]

Reed 1978, I'm in my second year of a four year HPSP scholarship and I can say your numbers are a bit inflated. I haven't been able to determine exactly what I'll get when I get out but it is closer to 50k than 70k. As far as I know, you get 50% of your base pay when you retire, I don't think you get 50% of your special pay. Right now an 0-6 after 20 years would make $86,800 so retirement would be $43,400. The current stipend is right around $1100/mo for 10.5 months a year (I think it increased about $50-60 last summer) and you get 2nd Lieutenent pay for 1.5 months a year, which is about $2700/mo.


To people considering the military schlarship: If you want to do it just for the money then do not just walk away from it, run away from it. A person who accepts the scholarship will probably make about the same amount of money as someone who does an associateship for four years. It mostly depends on how lucrative the associateship is and how expensive the dental school is. On the otherhand if you ever wanted to serve your country and give something back for all that freedom you have then this is probably one of the most painless ways to do it.

Regardless of the money or serving your country I still think the millitary is worth it. You will be able to work closely with experienced generalists and specialists without having to worry about building your practice, staffing or insurance issues.

 

[Midoc]

What does that mean? How is that a "safe bet"?

I am not vishal_k but I think I can answer the question. It is a safe bet because your school and housing is paid for and you are guarenteed a job when you graduate. The job is so guarenteed that is illegal for you to not show up. 😀

 

[ShawnOne]

Originally posted by Midoc
I am not vishal_k but I think I can answer the question. It is a safe bet because your school and housing is paid for and you are guarenteed a job when you graduate. The job is so guarenteed that is illegal for you to not show up. 😀

Midoc,

Let me start by saying that I am not trying to pick a fight. I just want to discuss this topic. (No personal attacks please)

You mentioned you think its a "safe bet" because of your housing and guaranteed job. I really dont see anything safe about this. This would be true if there was no jobs and dentists were sleeping in the street. But, as far as I know, the job market is plentiful. (Another thread discussing this).

A recent grad should be able to find a associateship and earn a cool 100k. I have personally know people making 120k after a few months because they were efficient workers (earn %age).

Now compare that to the 50k you get in the army. True you have housing taken care of, but the opportunity cost of that is 50-70k. What is safe about that? Plus, you may be sent out of a war-zone. (Which i would not do for a zillion dollars).

Another point is family. I have heard of stories of people who live on bases with their families. One the reasons I wanted to become a dentist is to provide my family with stability. How stable is the army on family??

On top of all this, in the army your stuck! Your not going anywhere for four years! Not making any new contacts. Not creating a client base. Missing opportunites to start a private practice. etc. etc.

If your doing it because you love your country, then hallalouya. We need people in the army to defend, but thats not for me. Maybe when I was 18, but not now. If your doing it because you think it is advantageous (financially, stability) then i think your mistaken.

 

[Midoc]

Shawn, I don't mind discussing it at all.

I agree that it is highly unlikely for a dentist to graduate and not be able to find a job. But, a guarantee is a guarantee and it does quite a bit for peace of mind. I remember around last April talking to some of the fourth years and quite a few of them were stressed out about finding a job that meets all of their criteria. I'm sure they all did fine but when I'm in that position I will not have to worry about that.

If you look just at the four years after school then the non-military dentist is going to make much more. I was looking at those four years along with the four years we're in school. My scholarship is worth ~$55k/year ($40k tuition/books/fees and $15k for stipend). By the end of the four years I should be getting closer to $60k or $70k. So if look at like I'm making nothing in school and apply the $55k to the four years I owe then I would start around $105k and go up to maybe $125k. Note: these are pretty rough figures.

From what I hear most of the dentists who go into a "war zone" (dentists are very unlikely to be any where near fighting) are the guys who are making a career out of it. Being in a warzone makes it more likely for you to get a promotion.

As far as family stability I do not know that much as I'm single. It is highly likely that you will have to move at least once duing the four years. On the other hand, you will likely only work 8 hours a day most days. If you are a young dentist just starting a new practice I bet you'll be working much longer than that to get everything up and running smooth.

Its true that you are stuck in the Army but you would also be stuck if you bought a practice and you are stuck when you join dental school. These commitments aren't legally binding but it would be very painful financially and timewise to walk away from them. This is pure conjecture but I bet that most of the dentists who buy a practice or start a practice will stay in the same area the rest of their career. In the military you have a chance to see the country and see the world with 30 days of paid vaction every year. How many new dentists can take 6 weeks off in their first few years?

You say you arent making any new contacts, if you mean that you're not making any professional contacts then this is dead wrong. You can make a million contacts or you can make none. Few situations are inherintly rewarding, you almost always get out it what you put into it. You're a dentist, in the army. That gives you links to all other dentists and all military people. If you meant that you're not making any patient contacts then this is true. On the other hand, if you're in an associateship and plan on moving then you won't have made many patient contacts either. Also you won't be building a patient base or starting a private practice as an associate either.

I totally agree with you, the financial reasons are a poor reason to join the military. Although after four years I think that a military dentist and an associate dentist will be about even.

 

[KDBuff]

ShawnOne,

I highly doubt that the average student graduating dental school will be making $100,000 in his or her first year out. More and more students are doing GRP and AEGD to hone their skills. Even if you get an associateship, you have to consider that your productivity won't be as high as someone who has been practicing for 10 years. I don't care what school you go to, your skills just won't be as good.

In addition, you need to take a look at dollar amount AFTER taxes. If you attend a private school, with monthly stipend, your looking at approximately $220,000 or more for school. You will make only between $40,000 and 50,000 for the next four years, wh/ after taxes, I estimate to be around 31,000 a year, or 124,000. All totaled, this equals $344,000.

Even in an associateship I feel most students won't get, you will make $400,000 over those four years. After taxes, (and you will pay a higher percent) that's probably around $275,000. In addition, you will be paying off your loans with this after tax money.

This doesn't include the additional pay for housing, etc. you may or may not get in the services. Last thing, and I also don't want to fight as I don't even know if I'm going to choose to go the military route, is the point about being stuck. I don't consider spending four years seeing the world as a waste of time. Yeas, you may get stuck somewhere that sucks for a while, but you may be all over Europe, which sounds pretty sweet to me.

I'm sure I could add more, but I'll quit. Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself why I should do it.

 

[RaiderNation]

I know some people in the army and it isn't for everyone. If you are married w/a kid or two and your wife works very little, you are looking at a substantial amount of debt you will accrue during dental school. A wonderful way to minimize this is to join the military for four years. You get great experience and the odds of a dentist being sent out to fight are slim to none. I know some dentists stationed at Tripler in Hawaii and they don't pay for anything other than their phone bill. I am sorry, but if you're making 50k-70k a year with nothing to spend it on, thats quite a chunk of cash. You could possibly graduate with 220k of debt, so that would be about a $2500 a month payment just to student loans. Then you add in your new house, new cars, etc., and you dont have a whole lot left to work with. Bottom line is, the military takes care of its dentists. You leave after 4 years with no debt, so thats about an extra $2500 of spending dough that your dental school colleagues won't see for a couple of years.

The only real negatives are the fact that you have to run, and you do have superiors. But, if you don;t mind lots of physical activity and not being the omnipotent office task master, the military is great.

 

[ShawnOne]

Originally posted by KDBuff
ShawnOne,

I highly doubt that the average student graduating dental school will be making $100,000 in his or her first year out. More and more students are doing GRP and AEGD to hone their skills. Even if you get an associateship, you have to consider that your productivity won't be as high as someone who has been practicing for 10 years. I don't care what school you go to, your skills just won't be as good.

Even if you dont make 100k your first year, by your second year you will definately make that, your third year you make more, your forth your more. So the average will be higher, I'd estimate 115k average/year. With Army, each year you get 55k towards loans, plus 50k, so 105k/year. I know the tax issue, but there are many ways to keep your money. For one, buying a house. A good accountant can help here.

Money aside, my main beef is that you dont have much control of your life. Also the military is family incompatible. One of the main reasons I choose dentistry is to gain independance and stability. The military seems to be the other extreme.

If I were single, the Army would be an option, although still not a favorable one IMO. But I can see how it may ease (erase) the debt pressure for those who are bothered by it.

 

[vishal_k32801]

What does that mean? How is that a "safe bet"?



quote:
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Originally posted by vishal_k32801
Army is not beneficial financially, but its a safe bet. You get less
dollars over years but no loans. So by luck if you don't do good
as dentist, you have no debts!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are the chances that you will be a very successful dentist?
If one has a loan of $250,000, it probably needs a very successful
practice to pay off the debts. Owning a practice means buying
an old established practice or starting from nothing, both are
expensive. Modern dentist offices are very expensive because
of the costly modern tools. Add location rent+paying all your
associates+your hugh loan payements+family expenses.

I know a very bright young dentist who graduated at the top
of his class recently from a very expensive school in California
and was hired at $130,000. Year later, he started his private because his dad is loaded and has helped him with some
$$$$$. How many of us are in that position? I think we all see
high $ income but it is attached with too many "IF's".
Thats why I call Army a "safe bet", my friend. Just my opinion.