Article Says Pathologists Should get $10 for reading 88305

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What's New From IOP, LLC?

As Part of ObamaCare’s $716 Billion Cut to Medicare, CMS Announces Fee Cut to CPT Code 88305 for 2013


Effective January 1, 2013, CMS is reducing payment for CPT 88305. The net effect is a 33% reduction on global billing for your Medicare patient population. The College of American Pathology (CAP) and the American Clinical Laboratory Association (ACLA) are working to reverse this reduction. IOP’s healthcare attorney has also informed us that this reduction is getting enormous attention from several parties. We will keep you apprised of any changes. We also have learned that this CMS decision was made before the RUC report was completed to provide actual data for such a change in reimbursement.

If you thought of opening a TC only lab this coming year forget about that move. The TC fee cut is 52% making a TC only lab probably not economical. That is why IOP has always stressed the implementation of global billing from the beginning. Those of you with TC only labs needing to upgrade to global billing should contact IOP today so we can help you cope with the new normal.

Depending on your practice’s Medicare patient population, the impact of your revenues will be substantially less. We have assembled a table which illustrates the estimated effect for different percentage levels of Medicare (2% up to 7%). For your copy please contact us either by phone (800.280.3785) or email at [email protected] to get your free copy.

CMS’ preliminary regulations issued in July had no change to CPT 88305. Their final regulations with the reduction in CPT 88305 were issued late last week. We reviewed the 1,235 page document. Fortunately, fees for special stains (CPT 88312 & 88313) and IHC stains (CPT 88342) were increased, as was the fee for CPT 88305 professional component (PC- 2% increase). The above mentioned chart includes those new fees.

We recommend the following strategies to cope with the fee reduction:

1. Labor is the largest expense in any business, hence payments to your pathologist should to be reduced to the "new normal" range of $10 to $15/biopsy. For 2013, CPT 88305 PC was increased by 2%. Remember, CAP and ACLA paid for the flawed Mitchell study on utilization. It is time for the "chickens to come home" to roost. Most of IOP contracted pathologists were paid $25 to $29/biopsy in the past. A $10 to $15 cut in pathologist fees will help make the laboratory finances look much better. It will in fact almost cut the payment reduction by 50%. Time to spread the wealth around for your benefit.

2. If your pathologist is unwilling to reduce his/her fee-for-service, IOP has arranged with a very large, multi specialty pathology group to provide non-Medicare diagnoses for $17/biopsy. They will also pay for shipping of slides and install a link to their computer system for results. We have known and worked with this pathology group over the past 2 decades. This applies only to states that are not direct bill states for Medicare. The CAP website (www.cap.org) has the most current listing of states.

3. Your Medicare patient technical work can also be sent to the above pathology group or you can send it to your local ACLA lab (Quest, LabCorp, Caris, GIP, local pathologist, etc.). Your pathologist can read the TC portion of the case (and probably lose money) and you can pay him/her at the "new normal" fees while you bill the pathology services (PC) from your in-office pathology lab.

4. If you would like IOP to re-do your proforma based on the new fees just let us know and we will be glad to do this for you.

5. IOP will also be happy to re-negotiate with your current pathologists for the "new normal" for PC fees for CPT code 88305 ($10 to $15 per biopsy).

If you have any questions, please IOP at 800.208.3785. This is the type of advice IOP routinely provides to our clients over the time of our agreements. We are your "partners" providing a security net for your practice pathology lab investment.

This is still an excellent investment for any GI, dermatology or multi-specialty group practice. Where else can you find an investment that has a return of six (6) months with a 40% profit margin in this stagnant economy?

http://www.iopathology.com/news.php

Members don't see this ad.
 
LMAO. Who says there is no oversupply of pathologists? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

This field is doomed!😡😡
 
LMAO. Who says there is no oversupply of pathologists? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

This field is doomed!😡😡

My impression was that IOP is struggling to reassure practices that it still represents a viable service. They are on their way out.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
My impression was that IOP is struggling to reassure practices that it still represents a viable service. They are on their way out.

The evidence is to the contrary. They are alive and well my friend. They have pathologists willing to take this cut themselves. This would not happen if pathologists were in actual demand.
 
If you thought of opening a TC only lab this coming year forget about that move. The TC fee cut is 52% making a TC only lab probably not economical. That is why IOP has always stressed the implementation of global billing from the beginning. Those of you with TC only labs needing to upgrade to global billing should contact IOP today so we can help you cope with the new normal.

Presumably the labs that were billing TC only didn't make that choice out of generosity, but because they couldn't find pathologists willing to work for less. The majority of in-office labs seem to employ pathologists who are already employed in local practices, who would probably be signing out those specimens anyway, I don't think that IOP will remain viable in all but the most saturated markets.
 
The evidence is to the contrary. They are alive and well my friend. They have pathologists willing to take this cut themselves. This would not happen if pathologists were in actual demand.

Well - the only evidence at this point is anecdotal and all of the anecdotes on this board have been about in-office labs closing, not thriving.
 
Presumably the labs that were billing TC only didn't make that choice out of generosity, but because they couldn't find pathologists willing to work for less. The majority of in-office labs seem to employ pathologists who are already employed in local practices, who would probably be signing out those specimens anyway, I don't think that IOP will remain viable in all but the most saturated markets.

Why is it not viable when IOP already has pathologists on board willing to do $17 per 88305 at a "very large, multi specialty pathology group"? It sounds like a race to the bottom.
 
You can sure see IOP has a lot of respect for pathologists. 🙁. I hope these f****** go out of business.

The hunger games have really begun I'm afraid.

The local pathologists likely will NOT get the specimens if these in-office labs close. They WILL be going to whomever gives them the lowest client price. Its gonna be business as usual with the pathologist getting the short end of the stick. Is client billing/fee spliting really all that much better than in-office labs?
 
Already have pathologists lined up to do the work. That is all you need. Oversupply. A very quick race to the bottom.

It just plain sucks to be a pathologist. There is nothing remotely bright about the future.
 
Already have pathologists lined up to do the work. That is all you need. Oversupply. A very quick race to the bottom.

It just plain sucks to be a pathologist. There is nothing remotely bright about the future.

Hang on - I'm not sure this is true. Small group partnership track jobs are what's in short supply. I don't think that applicants are lining up for in-office jobs, corporate labs, public sector work, or academia. If in-office jobs suddenly start paying $10 per biopsy, it doesn't necessarily follow that pathologists will take them.

It may be that small private groups are becoming anachronistic, but that seems to be true for most fields of medicine.
 
I saw this on the IOP website. Joe P is a dreamer and a douchebag. $10 per case is not "the new normal." It is a financial impossibility for pathologists. Added annual malpractice premiums for pathologists who participate in these arrangements will esssentially eliminate any and all financial incentive for the pathologist. I call Joe P's bluff on the $17 per case (? why not $10 per case) contract with a multi-specialty group. Even if he had one or several large, specialty pathology group in his pocket, it would take many months to complete EMR interfaces to a LOT of private practice groups. Do you think these groups can afford to pay someone to scan AP pathology reports all day? I don't think so. The walls are closing in on IOP. Moreover, all AP client billing arrangments are at risk right now.
 
I saw this on the IOP website. Joe P is a dreamer and a douchebag. $10 per case is not "the new normal." It is a financial impossibility for pathologists. Added annual malpractice premiums for pathologists who participate in these arrangements will esssentially eliminate any and all financial incentive for the pathologist. I call Joe P's bluff on the $17 per case (? why not $10 per case) contract with a multi-specialty group. Even if he had one or several large, specialty pathology group in his pocket, it would take many months to complete EMR interfaces to a LOT of private practice groups. Do you think these groups can afford to pay someone to scan AP pathology reports all day? I don't think so. The walls are closing in on IOP. Moreover, all AP client billing arrangments are at risk right now.


17 bucks a case wouldnt suprise me in the least. I've seen lower in my market.

I would wager that we are gonna see a surge in client billing. Those specialists are still holding all the cards and they are gonna explore all options to recoup as much revenue as possible. With all those specimens in play, there is no doubt that large labs with scale will be knocking on their door using "client billing" as the carrot on the string.The big ops will still have the ability to go very low and turn some profit unlike many of us.

If people think the local derms or urologists are suddenly gonna grow a heart 3 times larger like the grinch who stole christmas, you are naive. Even if you are in a group that was employed in the in-office lab, dont expect them to send those specimens to you unless your client price is low.
 
Jeez our group was offered $10 per container by the local urologists on our medical campus about 5-6 years ago. They found some other pathology group that would do their cases for them after my group balked

I wonder what their new normal,is going to be.

If you are getting paid 27 a biopsy now, remember the new normal is you should get a 2% raise not a fifteen dollar cut.

I wish we could find the name of that multispecialty group and let them know they are wiling to engage in an unethical fee split
 
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17 bucks a case wouldnt suprise me in the least. I've seen lower in my market.

I would wager that we are gonna see a surge in client billing. Those specialists are still holding all the cards and they are gonna explore all options to recoup as much revenue as possible. With all those specimens in play, there is no doubt that large labs with scale will be knocking on their door using "client billing" as the carrot on the string.The big ops will still have the ability to go very low and turn some profit unlike many of us.

If people think the local derms or urologists are suddenly gonna grow a heart 3 times larger like the grinch who stole christmas, you are naive. Even if you are in a group that was employed in the in-office lab, dont expect them to send those specimens to you unless your client price is low.


I agree that the death spiral of outpatient anatomic pathology is still in full effect. AP Client billing will still occur, but the margins are razor thin for the winner megalabs with scale. Client billing kickbacks for all clinicians will inevitably decrease.

Of course it's all about revenue for a private, independent group. Path is just another revenue stream. Quality of path reads, timeliness of reports, and subspecialty expertise account for nothing. Revenue is everything. AP is a pure commodity. The race to the bottom just got a whole lot faster and I for one am happy to see the smaller companies that depend on outpatient biopsies go down. Caris, Aurora, GI path, Bostwick, etc....Aurora's debt just got downgraded.
 
I agree that the death spiral of outpatient anatomic pathology is still in full effect. AP Client billing will still occur, but the margins are razor thin for the winner megalabs with scale. Client billing kickbacks for all clinicians will inevitably decrease.

Of course it's all about revenue for a private, independent group. Path is just another revenue stream. Quality of path reads, timeliness of reports, and subspecialty expertise account for nothing. Revenue is everything. AP is a pure commodity. The race to the bottom just got a whole lot faster and I for one am happy to see the smaller companies that depend on outpatient biopsies go down. Caris, Aurora, GI path, Bostwick, etc....Aurora's debt just got downgraded.

I just dont buy in that client billing is gonna decrease. Even though the margins are low, they will find a way to get "pull through" business of some kind that make the biopsies profitably. Home brewed testing, molecular etc.
 
What's New From IOP, LLC?

CAP and ACLA paid for the flawed Mitchell study on utilization. It is time for the "chickens to come home" to roost. Most of IOP contracted pathologists were paid $25 to $29/biopsy in the past. A $10 to $15 cut in pathologist fees will help make the laboratory finances look much better. It will in fact almost cut the payment reduction by 50%. Time to spread the wealth around for your benefit.

Your pathologist can read the TC portion of the case (and probably lose money) and you can pay him/her at the "new normal" fees while you bill the pathology services (PC) from your in-office pathology lab.

IOP will also be happy to re-negotiate with your current pathologists for the "new normal" for PC fees for CPT code 88305 ($10 to $15 per biopsy). http://www.iopathology.com/news.php

Does this guy have a history in path? It sounds like he has an interest in sticking it to pathologists above and beyond merely making money off them. The rubes I've encountered who build these IOP mills for a living tend to be mediocrities with lab backgrounds. They've built up a hefty resentment of pathologists over the years and now they get to screw them.

In any case, yeah, 10-15 bucks a biopsy is already here and on its way to becoming the "new normal".
 
Does this guy have a history in path? It sounds like he has an interest in sticking it to pathologists above and beyond merely making money off them. The rubes I've encountered who build these IOP mills for a living tend to be mediocrities with lab backgrounds. They've built up a hefty resentment of pathologists over the years and now they get to screw them.

In any case, yeah, 10-15 bucks a biopsy is already here and on its way to becoming the "new normal".

Didnt you read his illustrious bio from his website?
http://www.iopathology.com/founders.php

I dont know why they are so disrespectful to pathologists. He called the pathologyblawg guy/girl a pathetic pathologist. If we didnt have such a surplus of labor maybe we would be treated better.

Goodbye in-office labs, Hello client billing. Someone explain why one is better than the other. I guess it gives the specimens back to the lab again so more and more unnecessary tests can be ran to offset the low client price. If anyone questions it, we can say it is "personalized medicine."
 
Bwhahahahahaha.

What a group of idiots if they think they can pull this off. This will no doubt hasten the demise of in office Path condo labs.

Good riddance.

PS- Some of you academics/trainees need to SERIOUSLY look at this. Take a look, a close hard look. Then tell CAP and local societies that this company needs to be eradicated.
 
Didnt you read his illustrious bio from his website?
http://www.iopathology.com/founders.php

I dont know why they are so disrespectful to pathologists. He called the pathologyblawg guy/girl a pathetic pathologist. If we didnt have such a surplus of labor maybe we would be treated better.

Goodbye in-office labs, Hello client billing. Someone explain why one is better than the other. I guess it gives the specimens back to the lab again so more and more unnecessary tests can be ran to offset the low client price. If anyone questions it, we can say it is "personalized medicine."

Thanks. Lab sales background, as I expected.

New in-office labs may be a losing proposition, but as long as the existing ones can still turn a profit on the backs of their pathologists, they will be in business. The GU mills are going to have a harder time of it, but the GI mills generate enough volume to keep on going. This is not mere conjecture on my part--in-office labs are a significant chunk of the business in my world.
 
#3 doesn't even sound legal.

Regarding in office labs, it is beneficial to pathology that the urologists are also taking heat for buying and "referring"patients to proton radiation machines. What a scam that is. More money involved there too. Urologists should proabbly start selling their practices to hospitals or multispecialty groups now.
 
he is really trying to sell this crap to any specialists and likely keep a commission. so basically, you get paid like 10 bucks from the total reimbursement of your professional component because the urologists or gi or derm and these guys will pay you 10-15$ and pocket the rest???

it seems like these sales guys are trying to normalize the low fee and keep a portion of the pathology earnings. maybe someone should let this idiot know that tc was cut over 52% and most labs need pathologist to do the professional work and pay the staff, so the money can't keep going to the over reimbursed specialists such as gi or urologist or so on. if the specialist get paid for every biopsy and including part of the fee from the pathologist for the work that the pathologist does (interpretation of the case) then what is going to stop people from taking a extra tissue or doing unnecessary work? definitely not reimbursements :idea:

personally, i would rather do half the work or less so now we are encouraging increased bx and procedures for all, just brilliant alright. 🙄
 
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