As a new dentist, work 5-6x/week to aggressively back student loans or work less but take longer to pay them off? Thoughts?

[orthowins]

For a new dentist, what do you recommend? Student loans come out to 170k. No significant other/kids to worry about.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DMD12345]

Work hard while you’re young. Put the money where it makes sense. Some in loans, some in investments

 

[orthowins]

Work hard while you’re young. Put the money where it makes sense. Some in loans, some in investments

What investments do you recommend?

 

[Saddleshoes]

As a newbie dentist you have...
... a maximum of energy and uncommitted time.
...a minimum of experience and responsibility to others.
Those issues will reverse as you progress in your career.

THEREFORE -- Hustle NOW and pay it off.

 

[Thehighwind87]

170k is nothing. Even though I am for paying it all off- I would say try to live a balanced life.

170k with zero attachments...go travel, europe, Asia, go do ironman/marathon overseas, go fish in Alaska, carriabian whatever, dude the world is at your disposal.
If you had like 500k of loans I would say you are screwed and need to figure out a gameplan to tackle it. 170k? Put it on the back burner and go enjoy life. You won’t regret the experiences.

 

[DMD12345]

What investments do you recommend?

No idea. I’m just a D3. But that’s the word on the streets. Also keep in mind that if you want a practice loan to start your own in a bit, they’re not gonna care that you were really great at loans and just payed them all off within a few years if now you have no cash in the bank. They want you to have some moolah to support it, even if you still have loans. At least that’s what I listened to on a podcast some years back

 

[deleted1166024]

Based on average dentist take home pay you're going to have to pay them pack. Federal forgiveness of any kind is unlikely.

Pay them off as aggressively as you want if being student loan free makes you happy.

If buying a practice is in the near future you'll want to have some money in the bank though so possibly don't be too aggressive in that situation.

Think about any other financial commitments you have or want to have outside of loans. Having a good balance between paying the loans and investing for your future is also important. Compound interest is powerful.

 

[charlestweed]

As a newbie dentist you have...
... a maximum of energy and uncommitted time.
...a minimum of experience and responsibility to others.
Those issues will reverse as you progress in your career.

THEREFORE -- Hustle NOW and pay it off.

This is exactly what I have tried to tell young grads, who are still single and have no kids, to do after graduation. You said it very well with very few words. I have written lengthy paragraphs on several posts to try to express this same exact thought but I couldn’t do it because of my limited English.

Yes, work as hard as you can now. You’ll have less time and energy when you get married and have kids. Kids are expensive and they’ll be a lot more expensive when they start college.

Being financially secured (ie being debt-free) should also help you increase the chance of meeting the right person to marry. Nobody wants to marry a broke dentist.

 

[charlestweed]

What investments do you recommend?

Never invest in something that you don’t understand. You should never take financial advice from broke people, especially the students who are living on borrowed money. If you are clueless like me, the safest way is to put all your money toward paying off the student loans ASAP. If you have some extra cash to invest, the best way is to open your own dental practice. Practicing dentistry, which is what you are good at, is the safest and fastest way to accumulate wealth and become financially independent.

 

[yappy]

What investments do you recommend?

Read white coat investor

 

[LFA20]

For a new dentist, what do you recommend? Student loans come out to 170k. No significant other/kids to worry about.

I would work as hard as I can and pay off that debt asap

 

[juniordentist]

170k is as low as I've ever heard... not sure if this is actually a humblebrag

 

[AONLINE]

170k is nothing. Even though I am for paying it all off- I would say try to live a balanced life.

170k with zero attachments...go travel, europe, Asia, go do ironman/marathon overseas, go fish in Alaska, carriabian whatever, dude the world is at your disposal.
If you had like 500k of loans I would say you are screwed and need to figure out a gameplan to tackle it. 170k? Put it on the back burner and go enjoy life. You won’t regret the experiences.

I second this. OP, I graduated in 2021 with almost the same amount of student loans as you (164k to be exact) and I haven't paid anything towards it. After 2 years of work I have some money saved up so when the COVID interest freeze ends later this year I will tackle a good chunk of my debt (not all). Also single with no partner and kids. Work/life balance is very important to me so I choose to work 4-4.5 days a week at most. With that amount of debt you should be fine, enjoy your life.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I second this. OP, I graduated in 2021 with almost the same amount of student loans as you (164k to be exact) and I haven't paid anything towards it. After 2 years of work I have some money saved up so when the COVID interest freeze ends later this year I will tackle a good chunk of my debt (not all). Also single with no partner and kids. Work/life balance is very important to me so I choose to work 4-4.5 days a week at most. With that amount of debt you should be fine, enjoy your life.

+1 no one at the end of their life wishes they worked more. I Worked a Saturday or Sunday or 6-7 days a week.

While I’m happy that I paid off my loans early - I worked 6 days a week. It was also my biggest regret. You are only young once. Enjoy it. Live it balanced. That means investing working and playing hard.

I 1000% regret working 6 days a week. I do not regret traveling hawaii, bali, taiwan, Japan, europe. I wish I traveled more and did more. Like ski in Hokkaido, backpack europe, bike some of the Tour de France routes.

Good luck doing any of that when you have kids and also who knows if you can be physically able to do so. When you are young you can do anything. When you hit 30-50 even if you have the time and luxury to travel - injuries may hold you back.

Now if you had something unreasonable like 500k debt then you have to work harder. But 170k? Yeah go enjoy life. You can literally pay 170k back in ONE YEAR time when you own your practice.

 

[charlestweed]

+1 no one at the end of their life wishes they worked more. I Worked a Saturday or Sunday or 6-7 days a week.

But I also see a lot of 50-60 yo people who regret they didn’t work hard enough to save for their retirement. Some can’t work less and semi-retire because they still have debts to pay back. Some still have college kids to support. Some lost their jobs and couldn’t find another similar paid job because of their older age. Many are still living paycheck to paycheck and are worrying about their future retirements.

While I’m happy that I paid off my loans early - I worked 6 days a week.

It’s nice to be debt-free at such early age, isn’t it? That’s your reward for working 6 days week. Now, things like recession, the decline of the dental profession, decline in production (due to older age, less motivation, inflation etc) shouldn't bother you anymore.

I 1000% regret working 6 days a week. I do not regret traveling hawaii, bali, taiwan, Japan, europe. I wish I traveled more and did more. Like ski in Hokkaido, backpack europe, bike some of the Tour de France routes.

Have you ever wondered that the reason you was able to afford all these nice expensive vacation trips was because you had worked 6 days/wk?

You can still travel and enjoy time with your kids even when you work 6-7 days/wk as long as you plan things ahead. In dentistry, (especially for my ortho specialty), Spring break, 4th of July week, Thanksgiving week, 2-wk Xmas break etc are the slowest days of the year. Therefore, I don’t work on those days and plan time to travel with my family.

Good luck doing any of that when you have kids and also who knows if you can be physically able to do so. When you are young you can do anything. When you hit 30-50 even if you have the time and luxury to travel - injuries may hold you back.

Yup, you'll have less time when you have kids. You will also have bigger expenses when you have kids. That's why it's important to work and save as much as you can when you're younger and have no kid.

Now if you had something unreasonable like 500k debt then you have to work harder. But 170k? Yeah go enjoy life. You can literally pay 170k back in ONE YEAR time when you own your practice.

$170k is not much but it’s still a debt that you have to pay back. Paying back debt is only small hurdle to jump in life. The bigger hurdle is to save so you can retire comfortably. And in order to save, you must jump over the debt hurdle first. The longer you delay this, the longer you’ll have to work. Many young people fail to realize that it takes much longer time than they think to save. That’s because there are a lot of every day expenses that they have to pay such as rent (or mortgage) payments, utility, gas, food, car payments, auto insurance, health insurance, and taxes etc. You will have to continue to pay for all these basic life necessities even when you produce zero income (ie when you retire)....for as long as you are still alive. And these basic life necessities will become more and more expensive over time due to inflation.

 

[Thehighwind87]

But I also see a lot of 50-60 yo people who regret they didn’t work hard enough to save for their retirement. Some can’t work less and semi-retire because they still have debts to pay back. Some still have college kids to support. Some lost their jobs and couldn’t find another similar paid job because of their older age. Many are still living paycheck to paycheck and are worrying about their future retirements.

It’s nice to be debt-free at such early age, isn’t it? That’s your reward for working 6 days week. Now, things like recession, the decline of the dental profession, decline in production (due to older age, less motivation, inflation etc) shouldn't bother you anymore.

Have you ever wondered that the reason you was able to afford all these nice expensive vacation trips was because you had worked 6 days/wk?

You can still travel and enjoy time with your kids even when you work 6-7 days/wk as long as you plan things ahead. In dentistry, (especially for my ortho specialty), Spring break, 4th of July week, Thanksgiving week, 2-wk Xmas break etc are the slowest days of the year. Therefore, I don’t work on those days and plan time to travel with my family.

Yup, you'll have less time when you have kids. You will also have bigger expenses when you have kids. That's why it's important to work and save as much as you can when you're younger and have no kid.

$170k is not much but it’s still a debt that you have to pay back. Paying back debt is only small hurdle to jump in life. The bigger hurdle is to save so you can retire comfortably. And in order to save, you must jump over the debt hurdle first. The longer you delay this, the longer you’ll have to work. Many young people fail to realize that it takes much longer time than they think to save. That’s because there are a lot of every day expenses that they have to pay such as rent (or mortgage) payments, utility, gas, food, car payments, auto insurance, health insurance, and taxes etc. You will have to continue to pay for all these basic life necessities even when you produce zero income (ie when you retire)....for as long as you are still alive. And these basic life necessities will become more and more expensive over time due to inflation.

I dunno, I sorta disagree to be honest. You can never get back your youth. 25-29 is prime time living. Working 6 days hunched over to pay back 170k for 2 years?

Yeah, no thanks- like you said, you can easily own a practice like yourself and have 250k+ in post tax income to pay it off in a years time. In your case you could pay that off in 6 months on a 4 day ortho work week. I mean what makes more sense- paying off loans in 6 months time on a 4 day work week, or hustling in 25-29 paying off 6 days a week 2 years timeline.

Youth and time can never be bought back. But I do see your point of view. I just disagree- and I paid mine off 100% in 2 years working 6 days a week. I regret because the sum wasn't large, it could be paid back in a years time on a 4 day owner business schedule, and I could of lived in my 20's instead of backbreaking work 6 days a week hunched over to become debt free. If I had 170k today, I could pay it off in a years time give or take 4 days a week, while doing less dr work- since owners get a cut from hygiene. That's a way better life then 6 days a week filling and drilling 2x the amount since associates don't get hygiene.

At the end of the day, I focused to much on work work work, and regret not having balance balance balance. As we get older- we have regrets, your body starts to fail, and your obligations pile up. And your 20's don't come back- no matter how much money you have.

And I hope if one takes the route of postponing payments- that they "have a plan" later in life to address it. 170k is easily addressable, and if said dentist is an owner later in life- can easily address it in 1 year on a 4 day normal work week.

 

[charlestweed]

I dunno, I sorta disagree to be honest. You can never get back your youth. 25-29 is prime time living. Working 6 days hunched over to pay back 170k for 2 years?

Yeah, no thanks- like you said, you can easily own a practice like yourself and have 250k+ in post tax income to pay it off in a years time. In your case you could pay that off in 6 months on a 4 day ortho work week. I mean what makes more sense- paying off loans in 6 months time on a 4 day work week, or hustling in 25-29 paying off 6 days a week 2 years timeline.

Youth and time can never be bought back. But I do see your point of view. I just disagree- and I paid mine off 100% in 2 years working 6 days a week. I regret because the sum wasn't large, it could be paid back in a years time on a 4 day owner business schedule, and I could of lived in my 20's instead of backbreaking work 6 days a week hunched over to become debt free. If I had 170k today, I could pay it off in a years time give or take 4 days a week, while doing less dr work- since owners get a cut from hygiene. That's a way better life then 6 days a week filling and drilling 2x the amount since associates don't get hygiene.

At the end of the day, I focused to much on work work work, and regret not having balance balance balance. As we get older- we have regrets, your body starts to fail, and your obligations pile up. And your 20's don't come back- no matter how much money you have.

And I hope if one takes the route of postponing payments- that they "have a plan" later in life to address it. 170k is easily addressable, and if said dentist is an owner later in life- can easily address it in 1 year on a 4 day normal work week.

That’s right. You can’t get back your 25-29 prime youth years. But in order enjoy life during your youth years, you need $$$ to pay for your hobbies. In dentistry, you don't get paid while you are on vacation like other jobs. Working as an associate 4 days/wk may not be enough, especially for a new grad who is slow and unproductive. I didn’t want to wait until I turn 50-60 to drive a nice 7-series or a S-class. I wanted to drive a nice car during my youth years. Some like taking vacations but for me, I want a nice car, which I can enjoy every day. I also wanted a nice house when I was in my 30s. And therefore, working 6 days/wk was the only way for me to afford all these.

Yes, owning a practice helps increase your income significantly but it takes risk to open one, especially for today new grads, who feel that they must spend $500k+ to open an office. If you open one from scratch, it’ll take time to go from a negative income to a positive income. It takes time to build the clientele and the reputation. I didn’t want to downgrade the lifestyle when I started my first office; therefore, I had to work 6-7 days/wk (worked full time for the corp and worked Saturdays and Sundays at my newly built office)….so I could continue to enjoy my “comfortable” lifestyle.

I recently cut down my work days to just 17 days/month (it was still 22 days/month last year). It wasn’t by choice but by force….my practice has lost a lot of patients (because I no longer have the same motivation) and the corp offices that I work part time for also have to cut a few days because they have also lost patients due to the poor economy and inflation. Well, it’s about time for me to slow down anyway. I am glad that I had worked the way that I did in the past and have saved enough. I am glad that I no longer have the same worries (that I used to have when I was younger) about the decline of my profession or about the state of the US economy.

 

[LFA20]

I second this. OP, I graduated in 2021 with almost the same amount of student loans as you (164k to be exact) and I haven't paid anything towards it. After 2 years of work I have some money saved up so when the COVID interest freeze ends later this year I will tackle a good chunk of my debt (not all). Also single with no partner and kids. Work/life balance is very important to me so I choose to work 4-4.5 days a week at most. With that amount of debt you should be fine, enjoy your life.

Wouldn't it be wiser to attack the loans while you are still young and healthy and when you haven't settled down? (get married and have kids) You never know what will happen with your health or dental profession in general in the future. What if you keep postponing and your health start to deterioriate and you are only able to work 2-3 days a week instead?

 

[charlestweed]

Wouldn't it be wiser to attack the loans while you are still young and healthy and when you haven't settled down? (get married and have kids) You never know what will happen with your health or dental profession in general in the future. What if you keep postponing and your health start to deterioriate and you are only able to work 2-3 days a week instead?

As long as one knows when to stop “having fun”….stop “postponing” and start thinking more seriously about “paying off debt and building wealth” early enough, I think he/she should be fine. The problem with being a dentist is schooling takes way too long. You won’t be a dentist until you are 26 (if you don’t take any gap year), which is kind of late. At what age do you plan to set up your own office? At what age do you plan to buy your first house, which is close to $1 million here in So Cal? Will you be Ok with still being in debt (or facing a tax bomb if you sign up for IBR) when you are in your mid 50s, early 60s?

A lot of young people tend to under-estimate the time it takes to pay off debt. As time goes by, many realize that they have more and more expenses to pay and continue to postpone student loan repayments. Here is an example.

 

[2TH MVR]

There's no right answer. Depends on what you are comfortable with. When I graduated ... I owed around a 100K. Cheap interest rates. I was in no hurry to pay the loan down. My extra cash went towards a home, investing in my practices, retirement and having some fun. 170K is easily doable. Over 500K ... well .... start those 6 day work weeks.

 

[charlestweed]

There's no right answer. Depends on what you are comfortable with. When I graduated ... I owed around a 100K. Cheap interest rates. I was in no hurry to pay the loan down. My extra cash went towards a home, investing in my practices, retirement and having some fun. 170K is easily doable. Over 500K ... well .... start those 6 day work weeks.

You and I could afford a lot more nice things when we were a new grad because things weren't as expensive as they are today. Not sure if the today dental grads can afford to do the same. With a 4 (or less) days/wk job, the most a young inexperienced new grad can make is around $120-150k/yr. After taxes, it’ll be reduced to just $90-120k. After paying for all the basic living costs (rent, food, health insurance etc) + 401k contribution, he will be left with only around $20-30k. So it will take him at least 5-6 years to pay off the $173k student loan debt. After that, he’ll need to come up with another $150- 200k for a 20% down payment on a house….and it will take him another 5 years to accomplish this. So he buys his first house when he’s 35-36. If he continues to maintain this “YOLO” mentality and works 4 days/wk, he will still owe money on the house, which is just a tiny starter house, when he’s 65 yo. If one works hard, he/she should be able to relax at 50....and gives generously.

 

[Boofy]

You and I could afford a lot more nice things when we were a new grad because things weren't as expensive as they are today. Not sure if the today dental grads can afford to do the same. With a 4 (or less) days/wk job, the most a young inexperienced new grad can make is around $120-150k/yr. After taxes, it’ll be reduced to just $90-120k. After paying for all the basic living costs (rent, food, health insurance etc) + 401k contribution, he will be left with only around $20-30k. So it will take him at least 5-6 years to pay off the $173k student loan debt. After that, he’ll need to come up with another $150- 200k for a 20% down payment on a house….and it will take him another 5 years to accomplish this. So he buys his first house when he’s 35-36. If he continues to maintain this “YOLO” mentality and works 4 days/wk, he will still owe money on the house, which is just a tiny starter house, when he’s 65 yo. If one works hard, he/she should be able to relax at 50....and gives generously.

Yeah I mean if youre making 120k/year 5 years after graduation you have other problems besides paying back the loan. OP, 170k is a great number to start with. Ive known dentists who payed off very quickly and others that transitioned to a 30 year note when rates drop during recessions (dot com, '08, and COVID). There's no wrong answer. It really boils down if having that loan over your head is worth sacrificing an extra day or two a week. Investments into real estate, stocks, 401k, or even crypto are all ways to build that nest egg. You could always spend a year working like a dog, attack your principal, and see where you at. Then at the end of the year reevaluate, decide on if you like the direction you've taken, or change it up and plan those trips to Japan or Europe.