ASDOH vs Midwestern Specialty Match Rate?

[judysmoothie]

I am trying to decide between ASDOH or Midwestern for dental school, and I am really interested in specialize afterwards. I cant quite decide which school will give me higher chance of getting matched later(assuming I will ridiculously hard and get good ranking). I cant get the statistics of ASDOH's match rate anywhere(their admission office couldn't find it), so if you have any statistic to share, or just any input that will help me make this decision, it will be so greatly appreciated!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PreDentTechySon]

ASDOH has a really good match rate for specialties. I think it was last year’s graduating class had something like 35 people apply for specialties and 34 of them matched. I can’t remember the exact numbers but they have a good match rate. They also have smaller class sizes so relationships with faculty might be easier to make. I don’t know enough about Midwestern to say what theirs is like, however, both schools are really good in my opinion and both will give you great clinical experience.

Just out of curiosity, which specialty are you interested in?

 

[lamemrsa]

.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Cost difference? I know that both are ludicrously expensive.

Big Hoss

 

[887194]

I can't comment on ASDOH however, MWU has a focus on general dentistry. Keep that in mind.

 

[2TH MVR]

If those were your only options .... I would go with ASDOH.

 

[gunner4ever]

If those were your only options .... I would go with ASDOH.

Why? Midwestern has more clinical experience

 

[2TH MVR]

Why? Midwestern has more clinical experience

Lesser of two evils. Not a fan of MWU. Obviously I live in Arizona and I have come into contact with many of the attendings. Had a brief email chat with the dean regarding being a part time orthodontic attending and have talked to a few of the recent graduates. The attendings are mostly those dentists that couldn't make it in the real world (financial, disability, etc). The dean only wanted to know about Invisalign and could care less about REAL orthodontic treatment. The dental graduates that I have come into contact with are severely stressed with their crazy student loan debt and how this debt has made it nearly impossible to open a practice.

Quite frankly ... I would skip both these schools and find a less expensive traditional state college that offers all the dental specialty residencies.

 

[judysmoothie]

ASDOH has a really good match rate for specialties. I think it was last year’s graduating class had something like 35 people apply for specialties and 34 of them matched. I can’t remember the exact numbers but they have a good match rate. They also have smaller class sizes so relationships with faculty might be easier to make. I don’t know enough about Midwestern to say what theirs is like, however, both schools are really good in my opinion and both will give you great clinical experience.

Just out of curiosity, which specialty are you interested in?

Hi PreDentTechySon:

Thanks for your info!
when you say 34/35 matched, are you talking about mostly AGED and GPRs? I am wondering how is it for Ortho/Pedo/Endo/Etcs, like non AGED and GPR ones. do you happen to know the number?

I am new at this, but with my limited knowledge I might be interested in ortho and pedo now.

 

[judysmoothie]

Cost difference? I know that both are ludicrously expensive.

Big Hoss

unfortunately, because of my husbands' job, my only options are the 2 schools here, I had to rejected some cheaper offers. So that being said, being an Arizona resident, we got no in state school + my inability to move = high tuition + choose between the 2 schools.

I am just trying to pick the on that will help me more specialize more, assuming i will work as hard as i can.

 

[judysmoothie]

If you are talking about GPR’s and AEGD’s those both match a decent amount and are about the same in regards to match. When it comes to OS/Ortho/Peds, it really doesn’t matter. High class rank + High CBSE/ADAT/GRE + good letters are all that matter. All can be attained from either school. The question is are you willing to put in the work?

hi, do you happen to have the stats?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I am just trying to pick the on that will help me more specialize more, assuming i will work as hard as i can.

What specialty are you gunning for? You are aware that specializing may tack on upwards of $200,000 - $300,000 to your student loans, right? Also, there are few specialty residencies in the Phoenix area, so expect to move for that.

As a side note, your school name is a single line on your CV. It's up to you to fill the rest out. For specializing, it's the applicant that matters, not their dental school. Best of luck to you.

Big Hoss

 

[judysmoothie]

What specialty are you gunning for? You are aware that specializing may tack on upwards of $200,000 - $300,000 to your student loans, right? Also, there are few specialty residencies in the Phoenix area, so expect to move for that.

As a side note, your school name is a single line on your CV. It's up to you to fill the rest out. For specializing, it's the applicant that matters, not their dental school. Best of luck to you.

Big Hoss

I was gunning for ortho, i then i realize thats another 200K, so now i am thinking a specialty that has paid residency like pedo, I like kids a lot. But of course thing could change after i get more exposure.

School name is not what I am worried, its more about which school can give me more exposure to certain specialty, which one's system can help me build more connection and relationship with specialty faculties, like specialty rotation vs general dentist set up, etcs.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I was gunning for ortho, i then i realize thats another 200K, so now i am thinking a specialty that has paid residency like pedo, I like kids a lot. But of course thing could change after i get more exposure.

School name is not what I am worried, its more about which school can give me more exposure to certain specialty, which one's system can help me build more connection and relationship with specialty faculties, like specialty rotation vs general dentist set up, etcs.

The only specialty program you can buddy up to at either ASDOH or Midwestern is ortho at ASDOH. That program of course will run you $200,000+. So, there's probably minimal difference as far as specializing goes, since any school will provide you with opportunities to build a CV. Whether or not you take advantage of them is up to you. I'd then go to the cheaper school. It may not be much, but you better save where you can.

Big Hoss

 

[PreDentTechySon]

Hi PreDentTechySon:.

Thanks for your info!
when you say 34/35 matched, are you talking about mostly AGED and GPRs? I am wondering how is it for Ortho/Pedo/Endo/Etcs, like non AGED and GPR ones. do you happen to know the number?

I am new at this, but with my limited knowledge I might be interested in ortho and pedo now. .

Hey Judy,

I am not sure what the breakdown was for which specialties were matched. The information I was given was basically everyone who applied for a specialty matched. I do know at least a couple people usually match for ortho and there’s a good number of people who match for pedo.

I will definitely echo what Big Hoss said in that it is not necessarily the school but the applicant that really makes the difference for a specialty (although I think there might be some exception for OS).

I personally think there are some advantages with ASDOH like the smaller class size and the opportunities for ECs for your CV. They also have an ortho program that saves one spot for ASDOH students. It is the toughest specialty to get into just because of the demand, but if you work hard, get good grades and get involved in as many clubs as you can it can be done.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Hey Judy,

I am not sure what the breakdown was for which specialties were matched. The information I was given was basically everyone who applied for a specialty matched. I do know at least a couple people usually match for ortho and there’s a good number of people who match for pedo.
.
I will definitely echo what Big Hoss said in that it is not necessarily the school but the applicant that really makes the difference for a specialty (although I think there might be some exception for OS).

I personally think there are some advantages with ASDOH like the smaller class size and the opportunities for ECs for your CV. They also have an ortho program that saves one spot for ASDOH students. It is the toughest specialty to get into just because of the demand, but if you work hard, get good grades and get involved in as many clubs as you can it can be done..

Going to ASDOH for dental school and ortho residency will run you $700,000+ in student loans. This is financial suicide. Imagine having to come up with more than $5,000/month for the next TWENTY YEARS of your life, just to not default on your student loans. Have fun with that!

@judysmoothie, I know you want to specialize, but how set are you on not leaving the Phoenix area? I ask because as far as specialty residencies go, there is 1 ortho, 1 peds, and 1 OMS residency in the Phoenix metro area. The difference in effort it takes to do well enough to have a realistic shot at specializing vs. just graduating is huge. If you are only going to apply to a single program, it might not even be worth the effort. Most applying to these specialties apply to probably 10 to 20 programs.

Big Hoss

 

[2TH MVR]

Going to ASDOH for dental school and ortho residency will run you $700,000+ in student loans. This is financial suicide. Imagine having to come up with more than $5,000/month for the next TWENTY YEARS of your life, just to not default on your student loans. Have fun with that!

Big Hoss

Exactly. It's been said so many times that huge debt is a killer after you graduate. OP says that she is forced to stay in AZ, therefore the expensive schools. Well ... you may have to rethink your strategy. Think long term. If you really want to be a dentist/ortho .... maybe you and your husband need to consider other options out of state. Of course ... if your husband makes good money and doesn't mind being part of the huge debt, then go for it.

I work with a young dentist that graduated from MWU. This person cannot even afford a home let alone a private practice. This person is married also.

 

[schmoob]

unfortunately, because of my husbands' job, my only options are the 2 schools here, I had to rejected some cheaper offers. So that being said, being an Arizona resident, we got no in state school + my inability to move = high tuition + choose between the 2 schools.

I am just trying to pick the on that will help me more specialize more, assuming i will work as hard as i can.

Does your husband's job pay more than the price difference between those 2 schools and the cheaper offers you Got? Consider the cost difference over the life of the loan, not the initial. I would seriously consider revisiting your other options. And as already stated by the other folks here, if you want to specialize you will likely need to move anyway.

 

[Cren+ist]

Cost difference? I know that both are ludicrously expensive.

Big Hoss

Big Hoss,

Eat Drink and be Merry, for tomorrow we die. Don't worry about the loans!

 

[Faux]

Or just move away and do long distance. You're going to be busy regardless. Might as well avoid being in debt if you can move.

 

[schmoob]

Big Hoss,

Eat Drink and be Merry, for tomorrow we die. Don't worry about the loans!

Said all those people getting subprime mortgages circa 2008

 

[Cello]

Lesser of two evils. Not a fan of MWU. Obviously I live in Arizona and I have come into contact with many of the attendings. Had a brief email chat with the dean regarding being a part time orthodontic attending and have talked to a few of the recent graduates. The attendings are mostly those dentists that couldn't make it in the real world (financial, disability, etc). The dean only wanted to know about Invisalign and could care less about REAL orthodontic treatment. The dental graduates that I have come into contact with are severely stressed with their crazy student loan debt and how this debt has made it nearly impossible to open a practice.

Quite frankly ... I would skip both these schools and find a less expensive traditional state college that offers all the dental specialty residencies.

If our dean is only concerned with Invisalign then why don't we actually do Invisalign at this school? Our program uses ClearCorrect. And we already have two orthodontists on faculty, neither of whom are all that interested in clear aligners. Have you considered the possibility that we just don't need a third orthodontist at this school?

Holding a personal grudge against a program doesn't qualify you to trash the curriculum, the tuition, or the faculty. I have friends at both schools, and we do a lot more, much sooner than my friends at ASDOH. We are working with handpieces on our first day.

And you are kidding yourself if you don't think ASDOH graduates have similar student loan debt to MWU. The difference is almost negligible. With tuition and fees ASDOH comes to $371,392, while MWU comes to $369,897...

As far as bashing our faculty goes, what a ridiculous point. Because they are on disability they are somehow less able to teach us? We have guys at this school who can't practice for reasons beyond their control (tumors of the spine and horrific disabling accidents) and you are trying to suggest that somehow that makes them an inferior clinician? What a weak argument. With regard to your disparaging comments about our adjunct faculty who are "failures in the real world," you find me a school that doesn't use adjunct part-time faculty who are looking to supplement their income either because they are semi-retired, retired, or hustling to earn a living.

I work with a young dentist that graduated from MWU. This person cannot even afford a home let alone a private practice. This person is married also.

Everyone wants to make quick and easy money nowadays. No one going to dental school should expect to buy a home right after they graduate. That doesn't mean they won't still make a lot more money than the average American. As far as buying private practice goes, explain to me how a dozen of our 4th years acquired practices this year despite their student loan debt.

 

[2TH MVR]

If our dean is only concerned with Invisalign then why don't we actually do Invisalign at this school? Our program uses ClearCorrect. And we already have two orthodontists on faculty, neither of whom are all that interested in clear aligners. Have you considered the possibility that we just don't need a third orthodontist at this school?

Holding a personal grudge against a program doesn't qualify you to trash the curriculum, the tuition, or the faculty. I have friends at both schools, and we do a lot more, much sooner than my friends at ASDOH. We are working with handpieces on our first day.

And you are kidding yourself if you don't think ASDOH graduates have similar student loan debt to MWU. The difference is almost negligible. With tuition and fees ASDOH comes to $371,392, while MWU comes to $369,897...

As far as bashing our faculty goes, what a ridiculous point. Because they are on disability they are somehow less able to teach us? We have guys at this school who can't practice for reasons beyond their control (tumors of the spine and horrific disabling accidents) and you are trying to suggest that somehow that makes them an inferior clinician? What a weak argument. With regard to your disparaging comments about our adjunct faculty who are "failures in the real world," you find me a school that doesn't use adjunct part-time faculty who are looking to supplement their income either because they are semi-retired, retired, or hustling to earn a living.




Everyone wants to make quick and easy money nowadays. No one going to dental school should expect to buy a home right after they graduate. That doesn't mean they won't still make a lot more money than the average American. As far as buying private practice goes, explain to me how a dozen of our 4th years acquired practices this year despite their student loan debt.

Ouch. Hit a nerve. Sorry I don't share the same opinion regarding your school not that it matters. I'm biased towards inexpensive traditional state schools that offer all the traditional specialties. Not private for profit schools. My apologies.

 

[Cello]

Ouch. Hit a nerve. Sorry I don't share the same opinion regarding your school not that it matters. I'm biased towards inexpensive traditional state schools that offer all the traditional specialties. Not private for profit schools. My apologies.

No, you said that OP should go to ASDOH ("lesser of two evils") instead of MWU with a bunch of asinine and unfounded claims.

And while we're on the subject of "inexpensive" state schools, they often aren't inexpensive if you aren't a resident (which OP is not). Unless of course you are one of the small number of applicants who get into a Texas school or one of a handful of other programs that offer reasonable tuition to OOS applicants. Some of the most expensive schools in the country are state schools. For example, MUSC has the highest OOS tuition at $104,000 for 1st, 3rd, and 4th year students. The Ohio State University isn't far behind with tuition at $104,000 for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years. Those two state schools are ranked #1 and #3 in the nation for OOS tuition costs. Looking at OOS tuition, MWU is #9 and ASDOH is #7 in the US.

And who cares if the schools offer specialties if you aren't trying to be a specialist? I'm glad there are no endo residents trying to steal my best endo cases. And who wants an entire OS or perio department cherry picking all of their best implant and extraction cases?

PS - MWU is a non-profit institution.

 

[2TH MVR]

No, you said that OP should go to ASDOH ("lesser of two evils") instead of MWU with a bunch of asinine and unfounded claims.

And while we're on the subject of "inexpensive" state schools, they often aren't inexpensive if you aren't a resident (which OP is not). Unless of course you are one of the small number of applicants who get into a Texas school or one of a handful of other programs that offer reasonable tuition to OOS applicants. Some of the most expensive schools in the country are state schools. For example, MUSC has the highest OOS tuition at $104,000 for 1st, 3rd, and 4th year students. The Ohio State University isn't far behind with tuition at $104,000 for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years. Those two state schools are ranked #1 and #3 in the nation for OOS tuition costs. Looking at OOS tuition, MWU is #9 and ASDOH is #7 in the US.

And who cares if the schools offer specialties if you aren't trying to be a specialist? I'm glad there are no endo residents trying to steal my best endo cases. And who wants an entire OS or perio department cherry picking all of their best implant and extraction cases?

PS - MWU is a non-profit institution.

Good grief. 🙁. I apologized for my previous post and you still want to kick dirt my way. Well ...I tried. 🙂. Here goes. You need to spend your energies on school right now. Getting schooled by a dental student who hasn't graduated from DS and has no idea of what it will be like to have your school debt (if you took out loans) is laughable. You attend an expensive school. Univ. of NE is 70K a year based on their website. It's been mentioned here many times that attending an expensive school (public or private) is not wise. I spent 11 years in school and with scholarships, good stats, WISE school choices, ortho residency that paid a stipend .... I graduated with less than 100K.

As for traditional schools with specialty depts. Being biased .... I feel that they give the students the ideal "all-around" education on general vs. specialty treatment. By your comment about the OS or perio dept cherry picking .... it's obvious to me that you want to be a superGP which is fine. Your issue is that you will never know which complex cases should go to the specialist and which can be treated by a GP until you screw up a patient doing Clear-Correct and then decide to ask a specialist for help.

400K plus school debt is debilitating. That's a fact. In the REAL world which you have NO experience .... I've seen many MWU graduates who struggle financially. When you eventually finance a practice ..... these typical GPs almost never refer out specialty procedures. I can think of one ASSOCIATE (past MWU grad) at one of my referring gp offices telling his patients that Phase 1 or Interceptive orthodontics is a waste of time and money. Did he want to meet with me and review Ph1 and comprehensive treatment so that our mutual patients could get the best treatment and make an informed decision? Nope. His vast experience at MWU with aligner treatment has made him an expert.

So seriously. Go back to school. I'm done with you.

 

[schmoob]

Alright folks, let's avoid any nastiness. We are all having a conversation and if we disagree, we listen. Let's all be friends and not poor together!!!