Asian changing last name for med school application?!

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NonTradMed

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I was attending a dinner party and an acquaintance told me that a mutual friend of our families had a daughter who changed her last name to an 'American' sounding name from her Chinese one. She already had an American first name but her father was afraid that she may get discriminated on the med school application because of an asian sounding name and thought giving her an American (i.e white) name would prevent discrimination (as an Asian). My question was....is she going to undergo plastic surgery to complete that 'Americanization'? 😛

Anyway, I just thought that was an interesting piece of information, especially considering amcas reports that asians and whites matriculants share the same GPA/MCAT scores, which to me, implies that being asian is the same as being white in the med school application process, making the name change useless. But this girl's father seems to disagree, of course, he's also the type of person who sees any type of slight as 'discrimination'. Anyway, just wanted to share with ya'll what some people will do to get a better "advantage" for the med school process.

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I was attending a dinner party and an acquaintance told me that a mutual friend of our families had a daughter who changed her last name to an 'American' sounding name from her Chinese one. She already had an American first name but her father was afraid that she may get discriminated on the med school application because of an asian sounding name and thought giving her an American (i.e white) name would prevent discrimination (as an Asian). My question was....is she going to undergo plastic surgery to complete that 'Americanization'? 😛

Anyway, I just thought that was an interesting piece of information, especially considering amcas reports that asians and whites matriculants share the same GPA/MCAT scores, which to me, implies that being asian is the same as being white in the med school application process, making the name change useless. But this girl's father seems to disagree, of course, he's also the type of person who sees any type of slight as 'discrimination'. Anyway, just wanted to share with ya'll what some people will do to get a better "advantage" for the med school process.


Thats BS. I hear this whole asian discrimination BS all the time (I am sorta asian=Indian). It doesnt exist. There are a lot of us Asians in med school. Being Asian doesnt help you and as it would if you were a URM, but I dont think it hurts you either; you just arent considered any different than anyother non-URM.

As long as you have reasonable grades (doesnt have to be super) a med school will take you if they like you. Just be an easygoing person that people like.
 
that's sad that someone would give up their family name (i.e a part of who they are) to get into medical school
 
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that's sad that someone would give up their family name (i.e a part of who you are) to get into medical school

Ya it very ******ed. If the Asian dad was smart he would tell his daughter to change her name to a URM last name ( i m joking, but its sad when a parent gets supper competitive in this process, luckily my parents never really cared).
 
that's sad that someone would give up their family name (i.e a part of who they are) to get into medical school

This saddens me to no end. I can't imagine giving up a part of who I am just to be White. It's even sadder that her dad made her do it.

My advice, though probably unhelpful, is to be great at what you do and who you are and the world will love you just as you have loved yourself.
 
And what's the response when they see you in the interview and the first question they ask is: "so why is your last name Smith?"
 
Doesn't the application ask you to list all previous names you've gone by, anyways?
 
I was attending a dinner party and an acquaintance told me that a mutual friend of our families had a daughter who changed her last name to an 'American' sounding name from her Chinese one. She already had an American first name but her father was afraid that she may get discriminated on the med school application because of an asian sounding name and thought giving her an American (i.e white) name would prevent discrimination (as an Asian). My question was....is she going to undergo plastic surgery to complete that 'Americanization'? 😛

Oddly enough, I have been contemplating changing my American sounding name to something a little more ethnic. Sarg's Kid Hernandez de la Cruz de Jesus, or Sarg's Kid Running Bear or something.

Off color humor aside, that's interesting.
 
That's depressing. Changing such an important aspect of your identity is a pretty big deal, especially considering it was clearly not a fully thought-out decision. Seriously, how will this help her once she gets to the interview stage? Not to mention that allegations of discrimination against Asians are a complete crock.
 
She already had an American first name but her father was afraid that she may get discriminated on the med school application because of an asian sounding name

Actually, this simply represents a cultural philosophy of east Asian people in America: have you ever wondered why most east asian americans have American first names? It's because their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture. Isn't this a sad situation as well--all the tradition and culture that goes into a beautiful asian name is lost in the name of conformity. Clearly, I oppose this philosophy.

On another note, east asians do get discriminated against in the application process, not overtly, but inadvertantly. If we were to select the best students for medical school in America, regardless of race, the majority getting in would be east Asian (because they are generally so smart)! however, to achieve some "diversity", conscious measures are taken, not against asians, but for URMs et al...this inadvertantly hurts asians...but you've heard this argument before.
 
I know people who change their last name from Yang to Young to sound more American.
 
I've heard both sides of the Asian debate: to keep culture vs. assimilate. I think in the end, the majority of Asian parents are so keyed on their children succeeding that they want them to assimilate if that's what it takes. It's up to the child, who is part of American culture, to actually decide that you can be successful without giving up your background.
 
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have you ever wondered why most east asian americans have American first names? It's because their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture. Isn't this a sad situation as well--all the tradition and culture that goes into a beautiful asian name is lost in the name of conformity. Clearly, I oppose this philosophy.

A lot of my Asian friends have American first names because everybody butchers their Asian names. I would go by a nickname too if people couldn't pronounce my name, or worse, if they pronounced it so that it sounded like an offensive term. 🙁
 
And what's the response when they see you in the interview and the first question they ask is: "so why is your last name Smith?"

I guess she could either lie and say she was adopted or she could say she could make up something about assimilating into the larger culture...? The problem is that she wasn't born in this country so the adcom officer could easily see the disconnect that someone who was born in China would have 'smith' as their last name.

Doesn't the application ask you to list all previous names you've gone by, anyways?

I'm not sure, if it does....that kind of defeats the purpose of the name change.

Actually, this simply represents a cultural philosophy of east Asian people in America: have you ever wondered why most east asian americans have American first names? It's because their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture. Isn't this a sad situation as well--all the tradition and culture that goes into a beautiful asian name is lost in the name of conformity. Clearly, I oppose this philosophy.

On another note, east asians do get discriminated against in the application process, not overtly, but inadvertantly. If we were to select the best students for medical school in America, regardless of race, the majority getting in would be east Asian (because they are generally so smart)! however, to achieve some "diversity", conscious measures are taken, not against asians, but for URMs et al...this inadvertantly hurts asians...but you've heard this argument before.

I understand what you're saying, but the amcas numbers state otherwise, that asians get in with the same MCAT/GPA stats as caucasions, meaning that she would not get an advantage by changing her name into a white sounding name.

Also, it's one thing to change your first name, but last names are your family names and in Chinese society, that's the more important name, hence it is rare to hear of a last name change for Chinese (as compared to a first name change).

I've heard both sides of the Asian debate: to keep culture vs. assimilate. I think in the end, the majority of Asian parents are so keyed on their children succeeding that they want them to assimilate if that's what it takes. It's up to the child, who is part of American culture, to actually decide that you can be successful without giving up your background.

That's true. Asian parents are very keyed into their kids educational and financial success. But in this day and age, I'm not sure such drastic measures are needed in order to be more successful. Besides, there's more to life than getting a dozen acceptances into the top medical schools. 😀
 
I agree, it's not important. But, I think "traditional" Asian parents aren't necessesarily aware of that. That's why I said it's the child's place to decide that changing their name, etc. isn't necessary. The parents are just trying to help, for better or worse.
 
What do you guys expect? We beat our kids when they come in second in violin competitions!

There is no discrimination against Asians that I have seen outside of stupid frat boys yelling "chink" and "gtfo of our country" (damn JHU) and the equivalents in high school. Professionally, I have yet to encounter any discrimination. However, this is limited to research and academia, in the realms of business and economics I have heard very different stories.

But in anything science related in general, there is little discrimination, in fact we are stereotyped as genius workhorses so I dunno what this father's deal is. Walk through any graduate school and you will get an Oriental awakening.
 
A lot of my Asian friends have American first names because everybody butchers their Asian names. I would go by a nickname too if people couldn't pronounce my name, or worse, if they pronounced it so that it sounded like an offensive term. 🙁


...or because their given name has no stigma in their native language doesn't really work as an American first name. I had a buddy in H.S. (Cambodian, IIRC but it's been a while) whose given name was "Dong" but he preferred to go by "Andy" and I can't blame him for it 'cuz the more juvenile kids in school harassed him unmercifully re: his name.
 
when I go get a haircut or go to jamba juice or meet random people at bars I know I'll never talk to/see again, I use a fake american name (i usually alternate between john and kevin). I love my ethnic name, I'm just effin lazy and don't care to phonetically spell out my name everywhere I go.

...

I dunno if that adds any insight to this thread, lol, just thought I'd share
 
when I go get a haircut or go to jamba juice or meet random people at bars I know I'll never talk to/see again, I use a fake american name (i usually alternate between john and kevin). I love my ethnic name, I'm just effin lazy and don't care to phonetically spell out my name everywhere I go.

...

I dunno if that adds any insight to this thread, lol, just thought I'd share

well I'm about as white as white can be and have a perfectly phonetic (aka, not polish) name, but people still can't pronounce it... I guess that's what happens when you add enough syllables.
 
that's b.s. in med school apps there's a thing called an interview and they'll see her face and she'll be asian anyway except if she freakishly looks like a jane smith too. and even if she doesnt check the asian box, being a white female as her name is supposed to imply won't give her much of an advantage either way. as for changing her name to a "urm last name" what the heck is a urm last name? urm's are identified mostly i would guess by interview too ie a lot of african americans have the same last names as white americans. perhaps, you were referring to traditionally hispanic last names then?
 
There are many asian girls with "American" surnames. They are adopted. I wonder what their chances are in the med school applicant pool?

I saw an application from one the other day -- born in Asia, both parents had "white bread" names, from a state with very few Asians and then :idea: it dawned on me. Didn't make any difference in the way I read the application. Just interesting to see ethnicity & birth place that was incongruous with name & parents' names.
 
That's interesting, though I would never do it. I did not fill out the ethnicity part of the AMCAS application but my name definitely betrays my ethnicity.
 
Actually, this simply represents a cultural philosophy of east Asian people in America: have you ever wondered why most east asian americans have American first names? It's because their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture. Isn't this a sad situation as well--all the tradition and culture that goes into a beautiful asian name is lost in the name of conformity. Clearly, I oppose this philosophy.

On another note, east asians do get discriminated against in the application process, not overtly, but inadvertantly. If we were to select the best students for medical school in America, regardless of race, the majority getting in would be east Asian (because they are generally so smart)! however, to achieve some "diversity", conscious measures are taken, not against asians, but for URMs et al...this inadvertantly hurts asians...but you've heard this argument before.


Thats if you assume that MCAT and GPA are the ultimate indicators of performance in med school. Being in med school I ll tell you that MCAT and undergrad GPA dont mean siht. Plus a lot of those 40mcat people and 3.8 gpa dont really know how to talk to people (seen this in med school also). Also a 3.8 from some state school or some private school with grade inflation doesnt really prove siht either.

I would take a 3.3 student from Berkeley, MIT, Cal Tech, Harvard, Columbia (assuming they did a science major) any day over a 3.8 student from a state or private school. But it comes down to politics all schools want to say that they have the highest average mcat or gpa in their regions to make themselves feel better and to secure more research money.
 
Ever since watching that Simpsons episode, I've been wanting to be "Max Power."
 
that's sad that someone would give up their family name (i.e a part of who they are) to get into medical school

I agree.

When I came to the US, my two last names got suddenly got turned into just my paternal one (in Hispanic countries, including Spain, people get both their parent's last names, dad's goes first, then mom's).

I actually felt robbed of part of my identity and even cried because I didn't have my maternal last name anymore. I was always X Y Z and now I was only X Y.

So, I had my last-names hyphenated and I use both of them now. A name is a big part of one's identity, and unless it was something completely horrible (Gaylord Focker comes to mind), I wouldn't change it.
 
A lot of my Asian friends have American first names because everybody butchers their Asian names. I would go by a nickname too if people couldn't pronounce my name, or worse, if they pronounced it so that it sounded like an offensive term. 🙁

I use to use my American name when I was younger, but people would always find out about my Chinese name and use my Chinese name instead because it sounds so unique. There's only one person in my school with my first name, so it helps when my profs write LORs. Just felt like sharing...
 
I'm not condoning changing a name for the med school process, nor do I think it would help much if she did, but the idea of "giving up one's identity by giving up one's name" is a little bogus. An rather high percentage of women give up their maiden name when they get married. I know some hyphenate, but I'm guessing the majority change their last name. Yes, it makes me a little sad that I no longer carry my family's name, but that doesn't make me any less a part of my family.
 
This saddens me to no end. I can't imagine giving up a part of who I am just to be White. It's even sadder that her dad made her do it.

My advice, though probably unhelpful, is to be great at what you do and who you are and the world will love you just as you have loved yourself.

I'm not sure how to take that statement. Are you saying that, in general, you wouldn't change your last name and identity just to fit into a supposed desirable applicant category? In that case, if you are using the white example just in reference to the OP, I totally agree. Otherwise, you are saying that one is only rejecting 'who they are' if they change it to a 'White' name, which I find totally off base. Again, I may be reading into this too much... if so, disregard.
 
I'm pretty luck in that I stuck with my original firstname all the time. My parents didn't feel like tucking an ugly-sounding Western name onto me when I was too young to make the decision (yay!!!!!!!!! gotta love my parents) Last year I was pressured into acquiring a Western name. I made it into a middlename, so my certificate says [Chinese firstname] [Western middlename] [Chinese lastname]. When I fill out stuff I just initial the middlename which is clearly not apart of me. So far, that name has helped out with certain people who have trouble pronouncing my firstname (which is not THAT difficult to pronounce). And it's nice when I go to starbucks and they ask me for my name I can just throw out my middlename instead of repeating my firstname 3 times and spelling it out for them.
 
she better have changed it to an important american surname, like vanderbilt or hearst, or one that's important to med schools, like geffen, keck, or weill.
 
she better have changed it to an important american surname, like vanderbilt or hearst, or one that's important to med schools, like geffen, keck, or weill.

Haha, agreed. If you are going to do it, it's best to do it right! :laugh:
 
I'm not condoning changing a name for the med school process, nor do I think it would help much if she did, but the idea of "giving up one's identity by giving up one's name" is a little bogus. An rather high percentage of women give up their maiden name when they get married. I know some hyphenate, but I'm guessing the majority change their last name. Yes, it makes me a little sad that I no longer carry my family's name, but that doesn't make me any less a part of my family.

Changing your maiden name for marriage is common and somewhat expected. For an Asian to change his/her last name to a more "white" name for social advantage is a entirely different thing and a much more loaded issue.
 
I'm not sure, if it does....that kind of defeats the purpose of the name change.

I haven't applied yet, so I don't know for sure...but I know on job applications and college undergrad applications they always ask what previous names you've gone by.
 
My friend's dad changed his last name to a more American upon entering the United states, so as to prevent being found by people from his old country, or something. In any case, he now has a very non-Azn sounding name. He would go to interviews, etc. and they would expect either a white or black person, and instead find him. :laugh:

Anyways, back on topic, dont people have the option of not indicating their race on applications anymore? Wouldnt that be easier than going through a whole name change process?
 
when your name is Chang, checking the race box is kind of redundant.
 
when I go get a haircut or go to jamba juice or meet random people at bars I know I'll never talk to/see again, I use a fake american name (i usually alternate between john and kevin). I love my ethnic name, I'm just effin lazy and don't care to phonetically spell out my name everywhere I go.

i've got the reverse situation going on, with an ethnic first name and a "white bread" middle and last name. so when i'm at sbux, i'll just give them my last name as my first name, instead of having to deal with the 40 iterations of the phonemes in my name showing up on the cup.
 
I would take a 3.3 student from Berkeley, MIT, Cal Tech, Harvard, Columbia (assuming they did a science major) any day over a 3.8 student from a state or private school. But it comes down to politics all schools want to say that they have the highest average mcat or gpa in their regions to make themselves feel better and to secure more research money.

UCB is a STATE school, at least it was when I went there...
 
Am I the only one who doesn't think it's wrong to change one's name to further one's professional development? Back in the day, Jewish and Irish-American actors used to fix their noses to look more Anglo-Saxon, and to this day most African American celebrities and professionals wear straight hairstyles. But that's changing, and the reason why ethnic features/hairdos/outfits are more accepted in society is because more minorities are involved in the first place. The first generation blacks and Jews in positions of power all had to assimilate and adopt some of the dominant majority's culture so that their children would have the right to express their heritage. Discrimination is a fact of life and we can only fix it by working in and against the system.
 
I would take a 3.3 student from Berkeley, MIT, Cal Tech, Harvard, Columbia (assuming they did a science major) any day over a 3.8 student from a state or private school.


Amen to that. Going into the interview season, it seems adcomm already knows this.

As for asian names:

I will never change my given Chinese name, it is part of me. I do not mind spelling it out at stores, I do not mind if I have to correct people's pronounciation of my name, I absolutely do not care. I love my heritage, even if it means getting unintentionally disadvantages during the application process. I'd say suck it up and stop whining.
 
Actually, this simply represents a cultural philosophy of east Asian people in America: have you ever wondered why most east asian americans have American first names? It's because their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture. Isn't this a sad situation as well--all the tradition and culture that goes into a beautiful asian name is lost in the name of conformity. Clearly, I oppose this philosophy.

I understand that the point of your response was to encourage... how do I put it... "ethnic" families to give their children "ethnic"-sounding names. And that you thought those asian-ish sounding names should be used (I guess) for whatever cultural-preserving instinct that was growing in the back of your head.

No offense, but your response that their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture just screams to me of ignorance and sweeping generalizations.

Every family of EVERY ethnicity has their own particular reasons (not some collective asian-american conspiracy) for giving their child whatever name they choose.

Had it ever crossed your mind that some of these "chinese" families consider themselves... you know... AMERICAN?! Every asian person you've come across in the states so far could easily have been born in the states. Why the f*__ should they be expected to have an "asian"-y name? Do you honestly believe they would do so to satisfy your expectations?

Look, I don't know how true that story about the chinese girl with the dad forcing her to change her name is. But do NOT assume that all "asian"-looking people with americanized names were given such just to be able to fit in with the white folk.
 
I understand that the point of your response was to encourage... how do I put it... "ethnic" families to give their children "ethnic"-sounding names. And that you thought those asian-ish sounding names should be used (I guess) for whatever cultural-preserving instinct that was growing in the back of your head.

No offense, but your response that their parents want them to assimilate to the American culture just screams to me of ignorance and sweeping generalizations.

Every family of EVERY ethnicity has their own particular reasons (not some collective asian-american conspiracy) for giving their child whatever name they choose.

Had it ever crossed your mind that some of these "chinese" families consider themselves... you know... AMERICAN?! Every asian person you've come across in the states so far could easily have been born in the states. Why the f*__ should they be expected to have an "asian"-y name? Do you honestly believe they would do so to satisfy your expectations?

Look, I don't know how true that story about the chinese girl with the dad forcing her to change her name is. But do NOT assume that all "asian"-looking people with americanized names were given such just to be able to fit in with the white folk.

White people are part of an ethnicity as well. Just thought I'd point that out.
 
Thats BS. I hear this whole asian discrimination BS all the time (I am sorta asian=Indian). It doesnt exist. There are a lot of us Asians in med school. Being Asian doesnt help you and as it would if you were a URM, but I dont think it hurts you either; you just arent considered any different than anyother non-URM.

As long as you have reasonable grades (doesnt have to be super) a med school will take you if they like you. Just be an easygoing person that people like.

The discrimination does exist. It's obviously not blatant discrimination since it's illegal in the U.S. but it does exist.
Here's an example even though it's not regarding a medical school:
Lowell High School in S.F. California is a public school. It placed a cap on the amount of asian students it will admit to each class. The school also requires higher entrance exam scores from students of chinese decent and lower test scores from people of hispanic/latino, african american, or caucasian decent. Is that fair? Here's a link to the story: Read under "Controversy"
http://www.answers.com/topic/lowell-high-school

This may not seem like it has anything to do with medical school admissions but it does. This is the same exact same thing. Asians need higher scores or better EC's to get a spot in the class.

I'm Chinese-American but I don't have spectacular grades or MCATs (athough i can say they are competitive with average applicants 3.71, 29R and a gang of EC's: clinical, research, volunteer, com serv, non trad, URM) but then i get lumped in with the Chinese applicants. Who do you think they are going to take when they have a choice of 1) Outstanding Chinese applicant 2) Middle Road Chinese Applicant or 3) Middle road AA or Hispanic applicant?
I can honestly say that I think that they would take #1 and 3 before they take #2. Deciding between #2 and #3 is based strictly on race and not scores just so they can fill the class with diversity. I do understand this is just my opinion but most of the statistics of recent medical schools first years classes back me up on this.
 
The discrimination does exist. It's obviously not blatant discrimination since it's illegal in the U.S. but it does exist.
Here's an example even though it's not regarding a medical school:
Lowell High School in S.F. California is a public school. It placed a cap on the amount of asian students it will admit to each class. The school also requires higher entrance exam scores from students of chinese decent and lower test scores from people of hispanic/latino, african american, or caucasian decent. Is that fair? Here's a link to the story: Read under "Controversy"
http://www.answers.com/topic/lowell-high-school

This may not seem like it has anything to do with medical school admissions but it does. This is the same exact same thing. Asians need higher scores or better EC's to get a spot in the class.

I'm Chinese-American but I don't have spectacular grades or MCATs (athough i can say they are competitive with average applicants 3.71, 29R and a gang of EC's: clinical, research, volunteer, com serv, non trad, URM) but then i get lumped in with the Chinese applicants. Who do you think they are going to take when they have a choice of 1) Outstanding Chinese applicant 2) Middle Road Chinese Applicant or 3) Middle road AA or Hispanic applicant?
I can honestly say that I think that they would take #1 and 3 before they take #2. Deciding between #2 and #3 is based strictly on race and not scores just so they can fill the class with diversity. I do understand this is just my opinion but most of the statistics of recent medical schools first years classes back me up on this.

it is harder to get into medical school if you are asian american or indian american bc so many want to go into the medical field. i dont think changing your name would help though if you are honest and check the right race 'box'
 
The discrimination does exist. It's obviously not blatant discrimination since it's illegal in the U.S. but it does exist.
Here's an example even though it's not regarding a medical school:
Lowell High School in S.F. California is a public school. It placed a cap on the amount of asian students it will admit to each class. The school also requires higher entrance exam scores from students of chinese decent and lower test scores from people of hispanic/latino, african american, or caucasian decent. Is that fair? Here's a link to the story: Read under "Controversy"
http://www.answers.com/topic/lowell-high-school

This may not seem like it has anything to do with medical school admissions but it does. This is the same exact same thing. Asians need higher scores or better EC's to get a spot in the class.

I'm Chinese-American but I don't have spectacular grades or MCATs (athough i can say they are competitive with average applicants 3.71, 29R and a gang of EC's: clinical, research, volunteer, com serv, non trad, URM) but then i get lumped in with the Chinese applicants. Who do you think they are going to take when they have a choice of 1) Outstanding Chinese applicant 2) Middle Road Chinese Applicant or 3) Middle road AA or Hispanic applicant?
I can honestly say that I think that they would take #1 and 3 before they take #2. Deciding between #2 and #3 is based strictly on race and not scores just so they can fill the class with diversity. I do understand this is just my opinion but most of the statistics of recent medical schools first years classes back me up on this.

Please provide proof!!! The average stats for whites and Asians are around 3.6 and 31...Asians have a higher acceptance rates than any other race! IF they are out to get Asians why are the Asian stats not 3.8 34 ???
 
Changing your name is possibly the dumbest thing I have EVER heard in my life. I think Asians need to stop spreading the myth that it is harder for them than everyone else! This myth is driving some of your people to the brink of insanity!
 
I do not mind spelling it out at stores, I do not mind if I have to correct people's pronounciation of my name, I absolutely do not care. I love my heritage, even if it means getting unintentionally disadvantages during the application process. I'd say suck it up and stop whining.

one time i was getting some chinese takeout and the lady asked me what my name was for the order. i told her, and she said "too hard - try something else." no joke, i gave her an extra $10 tip.
 
The discrimination does exist. It's obviously not blatant discrimination since it's illegal in the U.S. but it does exist.
Here's an example even though it's not regarding a medical school:
Lowell High School in S.F. California is a public school. It placed a cap on the amount of asian students it will admit to each class. The school also requires higher entrance exam scores from students of chinese decent and lower test scores from people of hispanic/latino, african american, or caucasian decent. Is that fair? Here's a link to the story: Read under "Controversy"
http://www.answers.com/topic/lowell-high-school

oh man, i went to grammar school right up the street from lowell. trust me, they can put all the caps they want, it's still going to be hard asian.
 
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