Asians

[Eggs n Coffee]

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very mature. you're such a hypocrite.

so anywho, yes i have heard that asians will benefit more if affirmative action is taken away. however, we were not talking about affirmative action specifically before, just competition in general. lets look at some info.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-a-mcatgpagridasian.pdf
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-w-mcatgpagridwhite.pdf

scroll down to total applicants and acceptances. 45% asian 48% white

Even though asians represent a smaller percentage of the total class, there are also less that apply. In the end, you have the same acceptance rate as caucasians.

45.3% vs 48.6% doesn't tell the whole story.

Wow man, you really need work on your reasoning and analyzation skills.

Asians have higher stats than Caucasians. The average Asian GPA/MCAT is higher. Based on stats (so if admission was based on merit and ability rather than race), the Asian acceptance rate should be higher than the white acceptance rate. But it's relatively similar (actually lower).

 

[bunnity]

As someone who has spent far too much time on the pre med forums (and has sworn off them forever - they make me too mad for a variety of reasons), certain minorities do get a boost in medical school admissions. The reasoning is that there are certain underserved populations that would benefit from having doctors from their own cultures practicing in their communities. Not going to get into a debate about it, but the OP's question is a very common one on the med forums. So is the thread deteriorating into a shouting match.

I will say that my class at Penn was woefully white for a city like Philadelphia, and it did feel a little weird to me (I am white but am used to very diverse schools and workplaces). I am not advocating any particular method of achieving a greater diversity in veterinary medicine but I do think it would benefit the profession.

 

[DVMDream]

Let me clarify just so no one gets a aneurysm:

Ok grammar pet peeve...

An is before words that start with a vowel. Example... an apple or an aneurysm.

A is before words that start with a consonant. Example..... a bird.

Also, please be sure to use your and you're properly. As well as their, there and they're.

 

[elephantgarden]

It is disgusting and very disappointing to see so many racist and ignorant comments. You'd think people applying for a doctorate program would have more intelligence. Disgusting. I certainly hope I don't have those of you who have posted racist remarks (not all of you who have posted, just the racist ones) as classmates. The world needs fewer of you.

 

[eventualeventer]

Bunnity, I agree, and I think that the same argument could be applied to veterinary medicine.

From the scientist in me:
You can not make a valid conclusion without knowing what the stats are for Asians WHO APPLY to vet school (BTW, most vet schools use the GRE, not the MCAT, although the stats are probably similar) -- stats that include experience hours as well as GPA and GRE. Let's face it, there are plenty of smart people who decide that the financial/lifestyle sacrifice of becoming a vet is not worth it. A reasonable hypothesis would be that in certain cultures/subcultures, the best and brightest are pressured to go into fields with more money and prestige than veterinary medicine, more so than in other cultures/subcultures. I'm not saying that you need to accept or reject this hypothesis, just that you need to compare data on the stats of Asians who apply to those of Caucasians who apply in order to draw any kind of conclusion.

Also:
http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/6512/original/DoubleFacePalm.jpg

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

As someone who has spent far too much time on the pre med forums (and has sworn off them forever - they make me too mad for a variety of reasons), certain minorities do get a boost in medical school admissions. The reasoning is that there are certain underserved populations that would benefit from having doctors from their own cultures practicing in their communities. Not going to get into a debate about it, but the OP's question is a very common one on the med forums. So is the thread deteriorating into a shouting match.

I will say that my class at Penn was woefully white for a city like Philadelphia, and it did feel a little weird to me (I am white but am used to very diverse schools and workplaces). I am not advocating any particular method of achieving a greater diversity in veterinary medicine but I do think it would benefit the profession.

Wow there's a reasonable and well-spoken person in here. Thank you.

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

Ok grammar pet peeve...

An is before words that start with a vowel. Example... an apple or an aneurysm.

A is before words that start with a consonant. Example..... a bird.

Also, please be sure to use your and you're properly. As well as their, there and they're.

Yes, I do know my grammar, thanks. You will find that on an internet forum, many grammar mistakes are made. I can find dozens just by glancing at this thread. Chill out. This is the internet.

 

[DVMDream]

As someone who has spent far too much time on the pre med forums (and has sworn off them forever - they make me too mad for a variety of reasons), certain minorities do get a boost in medical school admissions. The reasoning is that there are certain underserved populations that would benefit from having doctors from their own cultures practicing in their communities. Not going to get into a debate about it, but the OP's question is a very common one on the med forums. So is the thread deteriorating into a shouting match.

I will say that my class at Penn was woefully white for a city like Philadelphia, and it did feel a little weird to me (I am white but am used to very diverse schools and workplaces). I am not advocating any particular method of achieving a greater diversity in veterinary medicine but I do think it would benefit the profession.

I agree. Diversity is a great thing in schools. Undergrad, graduate and professional schools. I spent a year living in the international student dorms at my undergrad...absolutely amazing experience. I just do not agree with people using their race to give themselves an advantage. If there is an (insert race here) vs. an (insert race here). One being minority and one being in the majority and both applicants are equal I have no problem with the minority student being chosen. I do not agree with a student being chosen just because they are in the minority. So, you have applicant with high GPA, high GRE, and average experience (who happens to be in the majority) vs. student with average GPA, average-low GRE and average experience (who happens to be a minority) I do not think it is right that the less-qualified student be given the spot just because they are in a minority race. I also have a problem with people who play the…well I am (insert race) and therefore since I am a minority I should be given preference. That statement just does not sit will with me. Overall, if there is an equally qualified student who is of a minority race, they deserve their spot in that school. I think that race should not be considered. It should not even be a question on the application. Race should only matter once they have admitted students. Then, the school can ask the admitted students to fill out what ethnic background they come from.

 

[Willowhand]

I can just picture the adcoms reading this thread...

 

[vnair2]

I really want some fricken eggs right now. Damn you.

 

[BlacKAT33]

Asians have higher stats than Caucasians. The average Asian GPA/MCAT is higher. Based on stats (so if admission was based on merit and ability rather than race), the Asian acceptance rate should be higher than the white acceptance rate. But it's relatively similar (actually lower).

Are you sure you arent giving into the asian stereotype too? i'm sorry, but not all asians are geniuses. If you looked at the tables i showed you, you'd actually see the scores are THE SAME. If you put the data onto excel and look at the percent of asians vs. whites who got high gpa/mcat they are the same. Asians do not show statistically significant higher stats than the whites who applied. Im only using med school as an example because it is pointless to use vet data with no asians who apply. Also, pre-med is a higher education.


GPA / asian percent/white percent
3.8-4 / 19.4 / 22.8
3.6-3.79 /22.6 / 24.3
3.4-3.59 /22.3 / 21.8
3.2-3.39 /16.4/ 15.0



MCAT /asian percent / white percent
39-45 / 1.9 / 1.5
36-38 / 6.5 / 5.1
33-35 / 13.9 / 12.5
30-32 / 23.1 / 21.7
27-29 / 22.0 / 24.9
24-26 / 14.9 / 17.4

Now, this is only comparing people by race who applied to a high education program. Dont try to skew your point towards the whole US because that doesnt matter and it is not what you are arguing for. You say that you are competing with other asians with higher stats than caucasians do. According to this, you are held at the same standard as whites and you dont "shine higher" than whites in stats

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

I really want some fricken eggs right now. Damn you.

Haha. 😀 Go for it. Everyone has eggs in their fridge... Right? I actually just had some sunny side up eggs for dinner.

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

Are you sure you arent giving into the asian stereotype too? i'm sorry, but not all asians are geniuses. If you looked at the tables i showed you, you'd actually see the scores are THE SAME. If you put the data onto excel and look at the percent of asians vs. whites who got high gpa/mcat they are the same. Asians do not show statistically significant higher stats than the whites who applied. Im only using med school as an example because it is pointless to use vet data with no asians who apply. Also, pre-med is a higher education.


GPA / asian percent/white percent
3.8-4 / 19.4 / 22.8
3.6-3.79 /22.6 / 24.3
3.4-3.59 /22.3 / 21.8
3.2-3.39 /16.4/ 15.0



MCAT /asian percent / white percent
39-45 / 1.9 / 1.5
36-38 / 6.5 / 5.1
33-35 / 13.9 / 12.5
30-32 / 23.1 / 21.7
27-29 / 22.0 / 24.9
24-26 / 14.9 / 17.4

Now, this is only comparing people by race who applied to a high education program. Dont try to skew your point towards the whole US because that doesnt matter and it is not what you are arguing for. You say that you are competing with other asians with higher stats than caucasians do. According to this, you are held at the same standard as whites and you dont "shine higher" than whites in stats

Your inability to interpret data astounds me. I hope you are not going to go into research!

Also, I don't know what you mean by "that is not what you are arguing for so you can't say that!" You sound like you just really want to win an argument. What I am saying however (if you actually look back at my posts) is that Asians have a harder time gaining admission into top undergraduate schools and many professional/graduate schools such as engineering and medicine.
Here, let me show you something simpler to wrap your mind around.

http://www.acri.org/blog/2009/08/12/racial-preferences-and-medical-school/

Data from the AAMC (Association of American Medical Colleges) for U.S. Medical School Applicants 2005-2007 (3 years).


1. An Asian American with a GPA of 2.8 to 2.99 and a MCAT score of 36 to 38 has a 36.8% chance of being admitted to a U.S. medical school.
2. A White with a GPA of 2.8 to 2.99 and a MCAT score of 36 to 38 has a 40.7% chance of being admitted to a U.S. medical school.
3. An African American with a GPA of 2.8 to 2.99 and a MCAT score of 36 to 38 has a 100% chance of being admitted to a U.S. medical school.

Can't get more simpler than that.

 

[BlacKAT33]

Your inability to interpret data astounds me. I hope you are not going to go into research!

Here, let me show you something simpler to wrap your mind around.

http://www.discriminations.us/2009/08/are_asians_victims_of_structur.html

Can't get more simpler than that.

I see nothing wrong with the stats that i showed you. you just refuse to look at them. punch the numbers out yourself if you dont believe me. and are you seriously fighting with me when YOU show me that there is only a 3.9 percent difference in the acceptance rate?!?! and you say you're discriminated?!?!? PLZZ now that you have proven my point for me, im at peace

 

[Eggs n Coffee]

I see nothing wrong with the stats that i showed you. you just refuse to look at them. punch the numbers out yourself if you dont believe me. and are you seriously fighting with me when YOU show me that there is only a 3.9 percent difference in the acceptance rate?!?! and you say you're discriminated?!?!? PLZZ now that you have proven my point for me, im at peace

"only a 3.9% difference"

You really ought to take a statistics class some time in your life.

I will create a random example to show you that 3.9% is not an insignificant number unless your sample size is extremely small. For example, let's say I live in the middle of nowhere and the population for my current town is 5,000.

5,000 x .039 = 195 people

You think 195 people out of 5000 is insignificant? Most recent studies show the gay population is around 4% - and we can see in the news today that they are pretty significant. The fact that Asians, with the same stats, have a 3.9% less chance of being admitted IS significant.

I am honestly frightened that you are trying to pursue higher education. Your reasoning level seems more fit for a secretarial job.

Anyway, I am finally done with my English essay so hoorah! Off to partaaay.

 

[that70sfan11]

"
I am honestly frightened that you are trying to pursue higher education. Your reasoning level seems more fit for a secretarial job.

.

well that's a little unnecessary. Treating people like that won't make you a good doctor/vet/ or whatever you want to be.

 

[david594]

Can't get more simpler than that.

Those stats are a bit interesting. Although I would love to know more details about the sub 3.0 GPA and 36+ MCAT crowd. I could be wrong, but thats a very good MCAT score for a rather crappy GPA. My gut feeling is they would make up a relatively small percentage of the applicant pool.

I'm done giving you crap. I'm sorry I assumed you were a freshman, I saw in one of your other posts you mentioned taking gen bio IIRC and thats where the assumption came from. And I completely agree with you on your post regarding Caribbean schools and the general attitude of all that they can beat the odds(which are apparently a lot worse for med students then vet students down there).

 

[BlacKAT33]

"only a 3.9% difference"

You really ought to take a statistics class some time in your life.

I will create a random example to show you that 3.9% is not an insignificant number unless your sample size is extremely small. For example, let's say I live in the middle of nowhere and the population for my current town is 5,000.

5,000 x .039 = 195 people

You think 195 people out of 5000 is insignificant? Most recent studies show the gay population is around 4% - and we can see in the news today that they are pretty significant. The fact that Asians, with the same stats, have a 3.9% less chance of being admitted IS significant.

I am honestly frightened that you are trying to pursue higher education. Your reasoning level seems more fit for a secretarial job.

Anyway, I am finally done with my English essay so hoorah! Off to partaaay.

ok lets compute the numbers ourselves.

GPA/ asian percent/ white percent /asian acceptance rate /white acceptance rate
3.8-4 /19.5 /22.8 /76.8 /75.6
3.6-3.79/ 22.6 /24.4/ 60.9 /59.5
3.4-3.59/ 22.3/ 21.9/ 45.0/ 44.4

MCAT /asian percent/ white percent/ asian acceptance rate/ white acceptance rate
39-45 /2.0 /1.5 /91.4 /89.5
36-38 /6.6 /5.1 /83.7 /84.3
33-35 /14.0 /12.5 /75.4 /77.7


What i am saying is that by looking at the this data, the asians who applied to med school had the SAME stats as whites (not higher, like you said) and they also had similar admissions rate according to the stats (not extremely lower like you say).
YES asians may have a SLIGHTLY harder time, VERY SLIGHTLY. nothing like other minorities. and i think you should stop acting like you have it so much harder than any of us. We have all worked (altho from your previous posts on the pre-med forum you admit you are extremely lazy) and you dont have it any harder because you are asian.

And i was saying previous that i didnt want you to twist the argument by talking about stats nation wide. because that would include more poor whites than asians since many asians only immigrate over if they have family or money to live comfortably. That would obviously make stats higher for asians.

also, stop talking down to me like im a 12 year old. just because i like to write in short hand, use internet abbreviations, use smilies, and dont punctuate on internet responses does not mean that i am stupid in reality.

Yes, 3.9% can be more or less of a difference compared to sample size. I obviously had to take upper level stats to apply to vet school, jerk.

and your previous post had to do with numbers comparing a LOW gpa with high MCAT. I focused on avg to high scores of both because you stated that more whites with high scores get accepted than asians with high scores. Of course more whites with lower scores will have a higher acceptance rate since they are the majority.

SOO. with YOUR points. whites with HIGH scores do NOT get accepted more than asians with HIGH scores. also, whites and asians BOTH have the same percentage of high stats

 

[mississippigrl]

There is more to being accepted to graduate programs then grades and test scores. I'm sure each program conducts interviews for a reason and maybe some people with high test scores and grades are just so socially inept they are not good candidates for admittance. Some Asians are just weirdo's and love to study way too much......

Huge lurker😍😍

 

[zeebra44]

I can just picture the adcoms reading this thread...

My thought exactly.

 

[PrimalMU]

"only a 3.9% difference"

You really ought to take a statistics class some time in your life.

I will create a random example to show you that 3.9% is not an insignificant number unless your sample size is extremely small. For example, let's say I live in the middle of nowhere and the population for my current town is 5,000.

5,000 x .039 = 195 people

You think 195 people out of 5000 is insignificant? Most recent studies show the gay population is around 4% - and we can see in the news today that they are pretty significant. The fact that Asians, with the same stats, have a 3.9% less chance of being admitted IS significant.

I am honestly frightened that you are trying to pursue higher education. Your reasoning level seems more fit for a secretarial job.

Anyway, I am finally done with my English essay so hoorah! Off to partaaay.

So at what confidence interval is that 195 people statistically significant, hmm?

 

[BlacKAT33]

So at what confidence interval is that 195 people statistically significant, hmm?

lol yea. there are a lot of things wrong with his examples. Not to mention he tried to hack my point of view based on a statistic from one range of GRE and one range of MCAT. One part does not represent the whole (yay i learned that as a kid!! lol)

if i knew how to attach a file i would update my calculations. but its pretty simple division taken from the medical data posted. IMO anyone who has below a 3.0 should not be in med school (unless SERIOUS distractions like a parent/sibling death or the rest of your application is AMAZING)

I guess i'll just accept myself as a failure 😎, with style haha
**goes to work on applications for a secretorial job**

 

[mtambaschi]

I went to a Western informational session recently and they told us that they receive many more equally qualified applicants than they have places for in their class. So...they choose all of the equally qualified applicants and give the list to the Dean who picks a diverse class - diverse in regard to sex, race, cultural and financial background and age. I have a feeling this is what most schools do and it makes perfect sense to me. Everyone who gets in is qualified.

 

[Armymutt25A]

I think that it is odd that only race is being considered as a mark of diversity. There are so many other ways to categorize people: age, gender, religion, height, weight, eye color, hair color, education level, geographic origin, etc. How many 35 y/o males, with blond hair, blue eyes, a BS, and a Bronze Star Medal who were born in Indiana, grew up in the Air Force, graduated from a HS in the UK, apply vs get accepted? You don't see schools trying to balance their Protestant vs Catholic vs Jewish vs Buddhist vs Sunni populations. It's crazy to base your class off of factors beyond your control.

 

[rugbychick16]

I went to a Western informational session recently and they told us that they receive many more equally qualified applicants than they have places for in their class. So...they choose all of the equally qualified applicants and give the list to the Dean who picks a diverse class - diverse in regard to sex, race, cultural and financial background and age. I have a feeling this is what most schools do and it makes perfect sense to me. Everyone who gets in is qualified.

I think Western places more emphasis on diversity than the rest of the vet schools might do (hence the lower average GPA there, since its not the only main selection factor), so this may be an exception, not the norm.

 

[mtambaschi]

You're right, it might be an exception. I hope it isn't.

 

[Shanomong]

.

 

[chris03333]

I can just picture the adcoms reading this thread...

😉

 

[OtakuVet]

Would it be possible for me to say that yes Veterinary Medicine does need a bit more diversity. But I really cant say that affirmative action is really being used much anywhere. Now, I havent read the statistics but just from what I read in a few papers, this has been a growing problem for years both cutural wise and economical wise. Economical because just have others said "Why spend all that money on a career that will give you a fourth of that?". All I can say is simply this, in the realms of race there are alot that are doing quite well but for the most part there is alot of underrepresentation in veterinary medicine. Ive only met one asian american vet and not a single african american one. And I come from the inner city suburbs. But here is something that I thought about, would anyone thing that it could possibly help the stance of veterinary medicine especially in this economy if we were more ethnically diverse? Im pretty sure that helps in the medical field.

 

[HopefulAg]

Asians have higher stats than Caucasians. The average Asian GPA/MCAT is higher. Based on stats (so if admission was based on merit and ability rather than race), the Asian acceptance rate should be higher than the white acceptance rate. But it's relatively similar (actually lower).

Well others have already discussed the stats are pretty much equivalent (and I hate to tell you but 195 out of 5000 is NOT significant), there's other things than GPA being utilized for acceptance rates.

That's what the interview part is all about. To see beyond the stats. If it were just stats, no one with less than a 3.7 or so would be accepted.

 

[Trilt]

I think that it is odd that only race is being considered as a mark of diversity. There are so many other ways to categorize people: age, gender, religion, height, weight, eye color, hair color, education level, geographic origin, etc. How many 35 y/o males, with blond hair, blue eyes, a BS, and a Bronze Star Medal who were born in Indiana, grew up in the Air Force, graduated from a HS in the UK, apply vs get accepted? You don't see schools trying to balance their Protestant vs Catholic vs Jewish vs Buddhist vs Sunni populations. It's crazy to base your class off of factors beyond your control.

Just a comment on the diversity front: It is a huge pet peeve of mine that many businesses/organizations/etc only consider race, sex, gender and a couple other factors as diversity. In my job with a student organization, the director over us literally said "Oh, so you guys don't have any diversity this year." Because we're all white.

However... Of the seven students, we represent five different religions, and atheism. We all literally from across the country. I'm a military brat and have moved all across the US, not to mention I'm Canadian to begin with. Another student has lived in Scotland, Australia and several other countries. We come from highly different socioeconomic backgrounds, from very privileged to single mother and low income. We have majors in Zoology, different engineering fields, management and humanities. Some of us party nightly. Some of us play WoW nightly. The personalities and experiences of every individual are ridiculously different, but when it comes down to it all anybody sees is just 7 of those damn white people. 👎

In response to the actual thread topic.

 

[BlacKAT33]

Would it be possible for me to say that yes Veterinary Medicine does need a bit more diversity. But I really cant say that affirmative action is really being used much anywhere. Now, I havent read the statistics but just from what I read in a few papers, this has been a growing problem for years both cutural wise and economical wise. Economical because just have others said "Why spend all that money on a career that will give you a fourth of that?". All I can say is simply this, in the realms of race there are alot that are doing quite well but for the most part there is alot of underrepresentation in veterinary medicine. Ive only met one asian american vet and not a single african american one. And I come from the inner city suburbs. But here is something that I thought about, would anyone thing that it could possibly help the stance of veterinary medicine especially in this economy if we were more ethnically diverse? Im pretty sure that helps in the medical field.

This is a nice issue to discuss. I have met 3 african american vets. I'm not sure if that is normal/abnormal. I live near DC so maybe i see a more diverse field of vets. I have met multiple other nationalities (no asian one though) but some who have graduated from overseas and came here later in life.

This is an interesting article (I only read the left blue box) but it was a study with why there are so little african american doctors. I know its not vets, but its so hard to find vet articles. Anyway, it gives a nice summary of multiple things that impact whether african americans make it into these professional programs. (media impact, lack of money, lack of medical knowledge, less support at home, less role models) its is very interesting.

http://www.nmanet.org/images/uploads/Journal/OC986.pdf

this article says 4% of doctors are african american, and i found somewhere that said only 2% of vets are african american so im sure there are some similarities with the hurdles they face in both fields

 

[BlacKAT33]

Well others have already discussed the stats are pretty much equivalent (and I hate to tell you but 195 out of 5000 is NOT significant), there's other things than GPA being utilized for acceptance rates.

That's what the interview part is all about. To see beyond the stats. If it were just stats, no one with less than a 3.7 or so would be accepted.

ughh *frustration releases* finallyyyy lol. asians get the same amt of acceptance as whites with good stats!! *huge sighh*

and yes there are sooo many things beyond 2 stats! and we all know that well rounded people are looked at more favorably

 

[Minnerbelle]

hmmm... a few comments based on what's been said on this thread as one of a few token asian pre-vets on this forum:

1. racist comments aren't cool
2. there are some people who have responded here who haven't said anything downright racist, but at the same time seem to not be grasping the concept of white privilege.
3. to answer the op: no, i don't think you'll necessarily get a leg up on admissions at vet school for being asian. i don't think any adcom will admit someone simply because they're asian (purely for the sake of asians being an underrepresented minority) over any other person that is the slightest bit more qualified. now, given that there's 10 more seats left to admit (and at this point, there are 100 students who are equally qualified), then anything that gets someone noticed will help them shine. that could be that they are from some country that you've never heard of and they had very insightful things to say about that in their personal statements, or that they were conjoined twins at birth, or that they were on the biggest loser last season... if something about your being asian helps grab the adcom's attention, then maybe it'll help you out a tiny bit... but that's about it. i mean, if you were narrowing down from 100 equally qualified students to 10... and your already accepted class has no asian kid in it yet... and 95 of the 100 prospective students still in the running are white, then it might help. but the same goes with whether you're non-trad, had hardships growing up, grew up on a farm, have a y chromosome, etc... all of these things might tip you over if you're dangerously on the borderline (sorry if you're borderline, and you're a white suburbian middle class female traditional pre-vet with an interest in SA with no especially unique experiences... but hey, there's nothing to worry about if you're not within that sucky borderline ick)
4. as for whether asian have a rougher time getting accepted to top post-secondary academic institutions... it's hard to say. however, that's a really pointless argument to make IMHO. one thing to think about though... is WHY asians are overrepresented in higher education. a big factor is that culturally, it's more emphasized. whether it's a good thing or not, there's generally more pressure for asian students (if you take the population as a whole) to pursue the "best" higher education. at least from my personal observation, a greater percentage of asian parents are willing to put more money/effort into getting their kids into "good" colleges/med schools than parents of other races. i would say that in itself constitutes a type of privilege. the way i see it, affirmative action is about leveling out the playing field and understanding that grades and SAT/GRE/MCAT scores are influenced to a certain degree by what privileges were afforded to a person. i believe that the less privileged an applicant was, the more care should be taken by the adcoms to see whether that person's life circumstances were partially responsible for making him/her appear slightly less qualified than a more privileged applicant. of course this is the ideal, and it's very subjective and hard to implement properly... and unfairness results sometimes.

 

[theunraveler]

I dont see anything wrong with this thread, its a simple question. Either you answer it or move to the next thread if this doesnt interest you. If you find it offensive then you can report to the mod.

Now to answer the question, I cannot speak for other faculties but for the vet medicine faculty, Asians are a minority. Assuming a class size of 100, then only about 10-20 are Asians. The rest are all white people. I do not think that being underrepresented will give a leg up in admissions, its a meritocracy in vet medicine, you enter based on your results.

The above is my observation in an Australian vet school

 

[variegata]

I'm half Asian, and I definitely used that as my topic in all the diversity essays the supplemental applications had, so I'm hoping that the insight I've gained from a mixed background will help me get in. I don't think they'll let me in because of my race, but I think if I have interesting things to say that I have derived from my race, that could grab their attention.

I'm glad on these applications that they let you check 2 boxes. In high school, my college counselors told me to check the 'Asian' box on college applications if you were only allowed to check one. I got into all but 2 of the schools I applied to, but I'm sure that's not because I'm Asian--that can be better attributed to the fact that I applied to realistic options and had good grades. I'm pretty sure most schools have abandoned the racial acceptance quotas they once had. Often times, the race question is optional, so they really can't use it as a strong criterion for their decisions.

 

[radio2020]

Although we would all like to believe that we are simply judged on our stats , this is simply not true. Having a diverse class should be a goal for the veterinary schools. Making sure this is true will help fill al the needs of different communities. I do not think that it is the first thing they organize your application by, but it is definitely taken into consideration when selecting a diverse class. That being said, I believe anyone who is not a white female has a leg up on diversity, even a white male. I would not put too much consideration as to how your race will affects your application because out of the whole package it would be a very small piece.

 

[PicklePie]

2. there are some people who have responded here who haven't said anything downright racist, but at the same time seem to not be grasping the concept of white privilege.

This exactly. Affirmative action is not just about picking minorities over white people just to look good, it's about trying to level the playing field for groups that are at a disadvantage. There are tons of studies showing that minorities tend to be paid less for equal work, have trouble getting the same home ownership opportunities, and don't do as well on standardized tests that are culturally biased. If you are forced to take a part-time job because your family is in poverty, it cuts into your study and shadow time. If you are taking a test that is designed by white people without adequate measures to ensure fairness to minorities, your scores may not be so great. It is all well and good to say that race does not matter and it should not even be considered, but racism is ingrained in many aspects of our society. It is not fair to discriminate in some cases and then pretend that race does not matter when there is a chance it could negatively affect the majority.

I am incredibly white, so do not dismiss that wall o' words as self-serving claptrap.

 

[Sharpei5]

I heard that if you look like a supermodel you are guaranteed to get into Veterinary school, as supermodel looking veterinarians are underrepresented.

 

[david594]

Although we would all like to believe that we are simply judged on our stats , this is simply not true. Having a diverse class should be a goal for the veterinary schools. Making sure this is true will help fill al the needs of different communities.

And thats why being an underrepresented minority matters.

But what about the adequately represented minorities? Or the overrepresented minorities? (such as asians in human medicine?) They are still minorities, but based on how many of them they are, are they disadvantaged?

Or even the underrepresented non-minorities?

 

[vnair2]

True Dat PicklePie, however, I think affirmative action in school admissions is a poor way to level the play field. All it does is generate animosity for minorities among other equally qualified white applicants and encourage students like me (who have not been racially disadvantaged in anyway) to pretend to associate with their racially diverse side just for the sake of admissions. The focus should instead be on equalizing minority pay and removing strong cultural bias from standardize testing.

ps. I definitely think my racial diversity has helped me both in college and vet school admissions. Go me.

 

[lalzi22]

I heard that if you look like a supermodel you are guaranteed to get into Veterinary school, as supermodel looking veterinarians are underrepresented.

If Tyra Banks steals my spot at vet school...I'll kill her.

 

[PicklePie]

True Dat PicklePie, however, I think affirmative action in school admissions is a poor way to level the play field. All it does is generate animosity for minorities among other equally qualified white applicants and encourage students like me (who have not been racially disadvantaged in anyway) to pretend to associate with their racially diverse side just for the sake of admissions. The focus should instead be on equalizing minority pay and removing strong cultural bias from standardize testing.

ps. I definitely think my racial diversity has helped me both in college and vet school admissions. Go me.

Haha, I never imagined that I would read that first phrase. 😍

It isn't a great solution, it seems like widely used solutions rarely are, but affirmative action gets a worse rep than it deserves. I think most of the animosity comes from people not realizing the reasoning behind it. The main problem that I see is that it makes the assumption that all members of minorities are disadvantaged and that members of the majority are not. Obviously that isn't the case.

You are right on about what our focus should be, but there is a huge lack of acknowledgement of the problems. Some of the posts in this thread make it obvious. It is really hard to fix something when that many people don't even recognize it as an issue.

 

[OtakuVet]

Honestly, the only thing at this point that is going to change the field now is ourselves. We have a generation or two who have seen this time and time again and basically has gotten used to the inequality. Only way to tackle this issue is to change the thoughts of the general public such as stereotyping. Now this might be, public health me talking, but I believe that one of the problems is limited community outreach if more people are forced to help the community as a whole we can start seeing ourselves as more of a community and thus want to help each other more. My point being that race is an issue because quite frankly as individuals we make it a issue. But if we as individuals band together to help one another in things such as education and health care we will begin to level the playing field because everyone would eventually get a similiar start. Rather than having the inner city schools that get no money and the suburban ones get bonuses. I just feel that affirmative action has and always will be a cop out. We should help everyone to begin with and hopefully then we can have a somewhat of a leveled playing field. Anyway sorry for getting off topic with that. Just felt that this is a convo that goes way beyond Vet-Med.

 

[sumstorm]

Wow you sure are smart, talking about things you don't know about. There's been many studies done on this. The Asian average is generally higher in top undergraduate schools and most professional and graduate schools (med, dental, engineering, etc).
Because of affirmative action, race has become a factor in admission whether we like it or not. Asians are essentially competing against other Asians, and Asians have higher scores not to mention we are overrepresented in higher education. So affirmative action sucks when you're Asian, I was just curious if vet school was the exception to the rule.

As for the "eating pets" comment... Pretty sad, way to be trashy guys. I can see some people on here are hicks, I'm guessing it's mostly the kids on here who grew up in rural areas tending to horses and cows and have never stepped outside the country. Maybe one day you'll grow out of your immaturity and ignorance.

Interesting. Apparently the lack of maturity you displayed in the original post in even considering your heritage as a tool for entry into any program needed to be displayed again.

I am Oneida. Simple as that. In terms of heritage, we are probably one of the least represented populations in the country....kind of what happens when planned extermination was part of that heritage. It would have been incredibly short sited for me to assume that I had an advantage by being Oneida. I never even mentioned it. A few people MAY have picked up on my legal name being in Mingo, but I doubt that, considering that ad coms have asked if my parents were hippies.

It frustrates me when people claim heritage that they are not a part of....ie 'my great great grandfather was an apache.' I hear this stuff a lot, and am grateful that status for my heritage can't be claimed without appropriate tribal documentation. When people say things like that as a claim of heritage, I instantly know they aren't part of the culture.

While I do think vet schools value diversity, I believe that is not limited to heritage. I think it is the experiences one has that determines their diversity, not the number of boxes one can mark. I am delighted with the diversity of my class, one of the most diverse in the country.... but I know a fair number of us 'minorities' refused to indicate our heritage because we don't want that to define our experience (I don't fault others for doing so!)

Also, I am greatly offended to your association of rural living with 'hicks' and the concept that rural = lacking of knowledge. I came from a reservation background, followed by a farm background when my folks moved from the reservation. I am willing to bet my tuition funds that I have far more experience and cultural awareness than you are even open to having, based solely on the types of comments you are making on this forum.

Finally, the 'average' asian in american schools isn't 'average'....they have parents who could afford to send them or bring them to this country, and often have college educations themselves. They are often provided with greater resources and a more supportive environment than us 'hicks.' When I was in Japan, I met people who didn't test into high school.....that skews statistics a bit if scores are then compared to places where all students are admitted to high school. In parts of China, the ability to attend school is non-existant. If you don't understand the limitations of statistics, you don't belong in the sciences. I have a feeling you don't have the demands on your time that I had in undergrad, so I am sure you should be able to score better than I did.

Also, I could care less whether a culture eats beef, pigs, dogs, bison, or dog. I think eating dog is far better than destroying thousands in shelters because they aren't convenient for society (and that is not a judgement on shelter euthanasia.)

 

[HopefulAg]

Having a diverse class should be a goal for the veterinary schools.

Yes but why is race the determining factor? Because it's the most visible. It's pretty much racism to judge diversity upon race. "Look at us! We're visibly diverse!" What if the African American or Asian grew up in suburbia (as many do) and not truly in adverse conditions and is thus just like their white counter parts? Is that truly diversity just because they have different pigmentation of their skin?

My mom was reading the LSU admissions stats (I think it was LSU any how) and they listed that some of the people accepted were scuba diver instructors, a Mensa member, etc. I can't find the page right now, but it was a very diverse class based on their life experiences, not the color of their skin.

Is it not just as racist to give preferential treatment to increase 'diversity' based solely on race? It's reverse-racism, I believe is the popular term. But it's 'OK' because (1) some people feel that other races are owed something for the mistakes of our ancestors and (2) they don't want to be called for 'racism' when it is, in reality, just as racist.

 

[sumstorm]

I really didn't want to post a serious response in this thread, but race should not matter whatsoever when it comes to acceptance into professional school. We all had to take the SAME exact classes and work just as hard for a spot in veterinary school. The color of your skin or country of origin should NOT play a role in the passion you have for this career choice. That's really, really shallow in my opinion, and veterinary admission committees will see right through it if you try to boldly play that card.

Actually, we didn't have the same exact classes. I went to a school where a 3.4 was magna cum laude, and no one graduated with a 4.0 (anti-grade inflation) and grade curves were true curves, not upward curves. I also worked 50+ hours a week in undergrad (because my family believes education is a way to be lazy)....but from what you are saying, all students have the same work load in undergrad....so I assume that would mean you did so as well?

I do agree that heritages shouldn't be a determining factor in whether one applies for vet school or not, but that heritage, socioeconomic background, and opportunities are vastly different for different individuals, and that does need to be considered in admissions. Sadly, there are more people who are qualified than positions, and there is never a sure fire way to be certain who will be successful in vet school.

 

[sumstorm]

I think Western places more emphasis on diversity than the rest of the vet schools might do (hence the lower average GPA there, since its not the only main selection factor), so this may be an exception, not the norm.

It is a high priority here! I don't know if it is true, but we were told we have one of the most diverse classes of any vet school...and there is a department dedicated to diversity. We also have many diversity seminar opportunities with fairly interesting topics (though we are required to attend a minimum of 4.)

 

[Minnerbelle]

We also have many diversity seminar opportunities with fairly interesting topics (though we are required to attend a minimum of 4.)

Do you lose professionalism points if you don't go to those too??? 😉

as for marking off your race/ethnicity, i personally didn't want to mark anything. i didn't think it should matter... BUT, my name is a dead giveaway for EXACTLY where my roots are (and since I'm not a citizen I needed to declare my nationality), i didn't want adcoms to be sketched out by the fact that i deliberately wouldn't mark off my race/ethnicity. i felt like that would raise more questions than it needed to.

 

[PicklePie]

Is it not just as racist to give preferential treatment to increase 'diversity' based solely on race? It's reverse-racism, I believe is the popular term. But it's 'OK' because (1) some people feel that other races are owed something for the mistakes of our ancestors and (2) they don't want to be called for 'racism' when it is, in reality, just as racist.

There is a lot of debate in sociology circles as to whether "reverse-racism" is possible considering the fact that minorities as a whole do not have the same level of power as the majority, and are therefore unable to really have an affect. Basically minorities begin at a disadvantage, so any attempts to suppress the majority can only go so far as to equalize the power differential, never reverse it.

You really have to realize that racism isn't this big bad thing that we chucked in the 60s/70s, it is ingrained in a lot of our systems. Affirmative action isn't the best way to go about fixing it, but the majority certainly is not being victimized for things their ancestors did.