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Certainly not the cosmetic side - that sees major fluctuations with the market.
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Certainly not the cosmetic side - that sees major fluctuations with the market.
1. What type of personalities does the OR seem to attract? Whenever I ask surgeons this question, I usually get a fluffy answer like "hard-workers" or "people who prefer to fix the problem instead of manage it". So, I'm interested in hearing the point-of-view of someone who opted out.
2. Also, did you do any derm research? Do you feel that it's necessary to obtain a spot?
Thanks again! 😍
I'll chime in about this:
"I'm always right"
"It's my way or the highway"
"I'm the only smart person in the room"
Look no farther than this little gem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyw7yYNvI5o
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+1. Do you think you could have done basic science research not specifically relevant to derm and still matched? I.e., is any research helpful? Or is derm-specific research really what you need? I am curious about this in general, in case you have any insight with regard to other competitive specialties. Sorry if this is a dumb question and thanks for making this thread!
yea i am interested in whether you did research as well. what steps should a medical student take if he/she is interested in derm besides getting good grades, good letters, good step 1, and doing research? is there really anything else?
1. I think the "fluffy" answers were correct - surgeons do tend to be very hard working and more interested in providing definitive surgical treatments than long term management of chronic medical conditions. I think they also tend to be arrogant and abrasive at times. Then again, a lot of them (especially the general surgeons and OBs) are overworked, underpaid, assume immense risk/liability, and end up putting up with quite a bit of BS from other services...I probably wouldn't be pleasant all the time under those circumstances either.
That said, as a med student I was most struck by how surgical culture is so hierarchical, more so than in any other specialty. Everyone has a very rigidly defined rank and position, and there's a lot of protocol. Ultimately though, **** rolls downhill, and as a med student you're standing right at the bottom of the valley, and end up taking it from everyone...from the attending to the intern to the scrub techs (who are, without exception, the most malignant, obnoxious people I have ever encountered).
2. I did derm clinical research the summer after my MS1 year, resulting in a first author publication. Research is expected - successfully applying without any publications is almost unheard of, and most people who match have multiple publications. I think the fact that I only had one publication actually hurt my application and impacted the number of interviews that I received.
Non-derm research certainly is better than nothing, but I would advise you to get involved more closely related to dermatology when you're in medical school. You need to demonstrate interest in the field, and most derm attendings don't particularly care about the minutiae of ion channels in nematodes.
That said, a first-author, basic science paper in Nature (even if it's not specifically related to dermatology) will likely get you further than a rinky-dink case report in the JAAD.
That's about it. I'd throw in doing as well as you possibly can on your derm elective and all of your away rotations, but that's fairly obvious. Getting into AOA also helps a lot.
I'd stop using the 10% BPO - that stuff is only good for stripping paint.
Try a medicated wash with 4% BPO instead - since you're washing it off, it tends to be less irritating. If it's really getting to be a problem, you might want to consider seeing someone to get some prescription topicals.
were your 1st author publication published in nature?
No, I did clinical research and was a first author on a paper in a derm journal.
If it is fairly expected to do research for a derm residency and the time most people do their research is after 1st year is that to say that you have to know you are interested in derm by the end of first year if you want to do related research? Is that the case for most people?
How did you study for the boards. That is an outlandishly excessive score. Did you go the reading every review book ever made route, or every single question bank ever made route?
Also, may I ask what your MCATs were?
Yup, sounds like surgery is what I was born to go into. 😎
Were you being serious about only derms being very attractive? I am only remotely attractive.
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36. Read the god damn thread.
you mad?
Quality contribution. Degenerate.
Dermatology gives me the ability to directly and visibly impact the quality of my patients' lives, often with more tangible results than those achieved in many other fields. I think that's pretty consistent with my initial motivations for pursuing a career in medicine.
I don't know about "most" people, but a lot of potential derm applicants do start their research the summer after MS1 year. Some of them realize later on that they want to pursue careers in other fields; others, like myself, end up in derm.
If you think there's a good chance you want to go into derm, I'd highly recommend starting research early. Even if you ultimately decide to go into another field, dermatology research isn't going to hurt your application...and if you decide to go into derm, it will help your application immensely.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11916375#post11916375
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11913724#post11913724
No, I wasn't. Also I will not be answering this question again.
Great Thread!
1) From what I have read so far, it is apparent that you have no interest in surgery. However, would you be able to shed some light on Plastic Surgery vs. Dermatology? Many threads have stated that both are very lucrative fields, but that Derm provides better income per hour. worked. I took a look at the AMGA compensation guide that you posted and plastic surgeons easily beat the income of a dermatologist. Was wondering if you could shed some light on this.
2) Assuming you are a patient and you want a cosmetic procedure, do you go to a dermatologist or a plastic surgeon? (I apologize if this is a silly question because I have heard both!)
Thanks,
Lunasly.
1) From what I have read so far, it is apparent that you have no interest in surgery. However, would you be able to shed some light on Plastic Surgery vs. Dermatology? Many threads have stated that both are very lucrative fields, but that Derm provides better income per hour. worked. I took a look at the AMGA compensation guide that you posted and plastic surgeons easily beat the income of a dermatologist. Was wondering if you could shed some light on this.
2) Assuming you are a patient and you want a cosmetic procedure, do you go to a dermatologist or a plastic surgeon? (I apologize if this is a silly question because I have heard both!)
Thanks,
Lunasly.
1. They're really not very similar fields at all. Dermatology is primarily a medical field with a strong procedural component; PRS is (obviously) a surgical field. There's some overlap in terms of surgical technique, but obviously a plastic surgeon can handle much more complex surgeries than the best fellowship-trained dermatologist, and a dermatologist will possess far more knowledge about diseases of the skin and their pathology than any surgeon.
In terms of compensation, I don't have specific numbers, but I suspect dermatologists earn more per hour worked.
2. It depends on what kind of a cosmetic procedure you're looking for. Anything surgical (face lifts, rhinoplasty, breast augmentation, etc) is obviously best handled by a cosmetic surgeon. I think laser treatments are best handled by dermatologists, as (I think) we're the only specialty that actually gets boarded in laser therapy. Fillers and Botox I'd say are a draw...both specialties have sufficient training in facial anatomy and aesthetics to do a good job. That said, you're probably more likely to have a physician doing your injections if you go to a dermatologist...most plastic surgeons pass those procedures off onto their PAs and nurses.
I would avoid going to the "medspas" and "cosmetic dermatology clinics" run by burned out FPs and OBs who have taken a weekend course on Botox...I've seen some serious train wrecks coming out of those clinics.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Just a few more question if you don't mind:
1) You mentioned earlier that research, especially publications from research in regards to the field itself, is very important. For someone going into MS1 and beyond, would you recommend that students conduct research throughout the year (whenever there is time), throughout the summer (full time), or both?
2) What other tips can you provide students looking to get into dermatology? That is, what can we do early on? If we get accepted, so we meet the faculty of the department within the first few weeks?
3) If a students decides on dermatology during their MS1, how do you not look like an idiot walking into the department claiming that you know you want to do dermatology. The last thing I want to look like is a gunner.
Thanks,
Lunasly.
Just a few more question if you don't mind:
1) You mentioned earlier that research, especially publications from research in regards to the field itself, is very important. For someone going into MS1 and beyond, would you recommend that students conduct research throughout the year (whenever there is time), throughout the summer (full time), or both?
2) What other tips can you provide students looking to get into dermatology? That is, what can we do early on? If we get accepted, so we meet the faculty of the department within the first few weeks?
3) If a students decides on dermatology during their MS1, how do you not look like an idiot walking into the department claiming that you know you want to do dermatology. The last thing I want to look like is a gunner.
Thanks,
Lunasly.
lol, one of the best responses I've seen in awhile.
Dear Sir,
(A) Do opportunities exist during medical school and residency to do electives and rotations in tropical region dermatology? I'm particularly interested in the International Dermatology Foundation's work in Tanzania.
(B) Can undergrads publish case reviews in dermatology journals without having a MD coauthor the paper? In the event having a coauthor is necessary to get published, could my Dad (an internist) serve the purpose? What about for epidemiology projects that the undergrad designed on their own? Do journals frown when students with a "BA in progress" submit stuff if they don't have any coauthors?
(C) I run a derm-focused nonprofit, do derm-related activities on campus, and am conducting social science research related to derm.
(1) Would it be a bad idea to package myself as a future dermatologist when applying to medical schools? I've always wanted to be a ped derm and do derm-focused public health/businessy stuff on the side but I don't want to seem off-putting or inflexible to adcoms.
(2) In that same vein, would shadowing only a dermatologist in the med school application process hurt me? I could easily spend a few days rotating between practices run by my Dad's friends but I don't want to waste my time looking at EKGs in a cardiologist's office and ugly people in a plastic surgeon's office unless it's mandatory.
(3) Assuming I get into medical school and earn high enough Step scores to match into derm, would I be able to leverage these experiences to help me match at either Penn or UCSF?
Thank you so much!
(A) Do opportunities exist during medical school and residency to do electives and rotations in tropical region dermatology? I'm particularly interested in the International Dermatology Foundation's work in Tanzania.
(B) Can undergrads publish case reviews in dermatology journals without having a MD coauthor the paper? In the event having a coauthor is necessary to get published, could my Dad (an internist) serve the purpose? What about for epidemiology projects that the undergrad designed on their own? Do journals frown when students with a "BA in progress" submit stuff if they don't have any coauthors?
(C) I run a derm-focused nonprofit, do derm-related activities on campus, and am conducting social science research related to derm.
(1) Would it be a bad idea to package myself as a future dermatologist when applying to medical schools? I've always wanted to be a ped derm and do derm-focused public health/businessy stuff on the side but I don't want to seem off-putting or inflexible to adcoms.
(2) In that same vein, would shadowing only a dermatologist in the med school application process hurt me? I could easily spend a few days rotating between practices run by my Dad's friends but I don't want to waste my time looking at EKGs in a cardiologist's office and ugly people in a plastic surgeon's office unless it's mandatory.
(3) Assuming I get into medical school and earn high enough Step scores to match into derm, would I be able to leverage these experiences to help me match at either Penn or UCSF?
Thank you so much!
Dear Sir,
A. I don't know if these opportunities exist for medical students, however they definitely exist for residents. I remember when I interviewed at the University of Chicago, the residents there mentioned that one of their attendings, who specializes in tropical dermatology, does field work in Africa every year, and the residents are given the opportunity to join her. There are other programs out there as well.
B. I don't know about any specific rules, but I can honestly say I've never heard of an undergrad or a medical student submitting a paper without a faculty PI as a coauthor. With regard to case reports, you do not have your own clinic and cannot see patients on you own. It would be considered a serious breach of etiquette and protocol not to include the attending in whose clinic you saw the patient in the case report.
C1. I think people in other specialties have a somewhat skewed perception of dermatologists. You certainly can mention an interest in dermatology in interviews, but to market yourself as a "future dermatologist" might put you at a slight disadvantage. Also, because of the highly competitive nature of the field, you will expose yourself to a lot of difficult f/u questions...what will you do if you don't match? Do you have any interests outside dermatology? Etc.
C2. I don't think it will hurt. That said, in order to have the grades necessary to match in derm, you will need to impress your residents and attendings in every specialty during your core clerkships. That means that you will need to be interested in looking at EKGs and treating surgical patients. You will also need some of those skills (like EKG interpretation) during your internship. Your current attitude will inevitably need to change.
C3. Probably not. Virtually every derm applicant has excellent board scores and grades, and has participated in research. An undergrad interest group and some shadowing isn't going to guarantee a position at an elite program. Attending an elite med school, having an impressive research background that sets you apart from your coapplicants (a couple of case reports WILL NOT do this), doing well on audition rotations at those institutions, and getting impressive letters from well known faculty...in addition to board scores, grades, and AOA will help improve your chances. A PhD also wouldn't hurt at UCSF and Penn. But nothing is guaranteed when it comes to matching in derm.
Would you say it is better to attend a prestigious medical school where it may be harder to get AOA or a school that is middle-of-the-road but you have a full ride at or a school that is say going to give you the best clinical training and is known with a good derm dept but not a top 25?
D
deleted261193
any advice for getting rid of striae? :\
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1. How popular are the Mohs surgery fellowships? Does there seem to be a high demand for the service by patients? Do you think it's worth it, financially, to pursue the additional training?
2. Do you know whether or not Nurse Practioners are seeking Mohs fellowships in addition to the derm fellowships they've already obtained?
3. Do you see Nurse Practioners and their current requests to open their own practice and work independently as a problem for future dermatologists?
Thanks! 😍😳😍
2. Do you know whether or not Nurse Practioners are seeking Mohs fellowships in addition to the derm fellowships they've already obtained?
3. Do you see Nurse Practioners and their current requests to open their own practice and work independently as a problem for future dermatologists?
Thanks! 😍😳😍
1. You won't have time during your MS1 year. Focus on honoring your classes, and save the research for the summer.
2. DO NOT meet the faculty during the first few weeks. You will look like an annoying gunner, and the residents will make fun of you. Again, focus on doing well in your classes, then approach them later in the year about a summer research project. By that time, you can explain how your (albeit limited) medical school experience to that point has piqued your interest in dermatology.
3. See 1 and 2.
Go to the school where you think you will do best. The prestige of your medical school will play a only a small role in your application, and will not compensate for mediocre performance.
That said, don't underestimate the competitiveness of a "middle-of-the-road" medical school. Remember, at just about any US allopathic medical school, all of the C-grade students from your premed classes have already been weeded out. You will be competing against 150 people who are, for the most part, about as intelligent and hard-working as yourself. Getting AOA isn't easy anywhere.
MD only.
Yes.
1. Don't get them.
2. Don't get fat.
3. If you are fat, loose some weight.
4. Some people try to treat them with tretinoin, but I don't think it's particularly effective. I've seen better results with fractional laser skin resurfacing, but it's expensive and insurance will never pay for it.
Not particularly.
1. They're very competitive. As long as there is sunlight and old white people in the world, their services will remain in demand. As of right now, the field is fairly lucrative.
2. NPs/PAs will never be qualified to independently practice Mohs. Mohs surgery, by definition, requires the surgeon to read their own pathology during the procedure and determine if margins are clear. Midlevels have no training in dermpath.
3. Not more so than in any other medical specialty.
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1. General dermatologists are taught to perform skin biopsies as well as basic excisions of skin cancers, moles, cysts, lipomas, etc.
2. Dermatologic surgeons are trained in advanced surgical techniques like Mohs surgery, as well as more complex repairs like rotation and advancement flaps.
3. IM-derm trained people are supposed to be better equipped to handle complex medical dermatology, like patients with advanced autoimmune diseases. Unless you plan on doing a rheum fellowship afterwards and carving a very specific niche for yourself in rheum-derm, I don't see any particular benefit to it.
4. Yes, but within reason. Someone with a 210 on step I and average grades is unlikely to ever match in derm, even if they do complete a research fellowship.
5. There are yearly in-service exams (next year's exam will be at the end of Feb), to help prepare you for the board examination which you'll have to take after completing your residency.
Is this guy for real?... You want to design an epidemiological study with your dad? seriously? 🤣
Let me see you submit to any freakin journal and see if your "stuff" doesn't get stuffed down the drain
Oh yeah I find it kinda paradoxical that you wanna go to Africa and help people with skin problems yet you are unwilling to shadow a plastic surgeon b/c of the "ugly people" And you run a non-profit? Kiss my ***
Sounds like a rich, entitled brat who thinks Daddy's connections is gonna get him into derm at Penn or UCSF. Why don't you try and apply to med school first and see if that attitude works at any of your interviews.
You don't sound off putting or inflexible, you just sound like a jerk who is not quite intelligent but doesn't quite know it.
P.S : You have CORE electives in third year. You will have to look at EKG and stuff your fingers in some poor old ugly guy's butt 👍
Argh, I'm a girl! Yes, I am for real.
OP, thanks for responding helpfully.
OP, thanks for responding helpfully.
Hey, first just want to say thanks so much for taking your time to answer these questions. I have done 3 years of research (non-derm) related since undergrad, starting medical school this upcoming fall. So far I have 3 co-authored papers in pretty solid, middle of the road journals (2 or 3 more in the works, will more than likely be published by the time I apply for residency positions). I know its early, but Derm is my top interest right now due to the procedural and academic nature of the field. Here are my questions..
1) How will these publications be viewed since they are not derm related and not first author?
2) Should I get involved in Derm related projects during medical school or do I have enough research experience? Would it be better for me to spend my time doing something more to make me stand out?
3) What other advice do you have for someone about to start med school who's goal is to match into such a competetive specialty?
Thanks for making this thread!
1) How will these publications be viewed since they are not derm related and not first author?
2) Should I get involved in Derm related projects during medical school or do I have enough research experience? Would it be better for me to spend my time doing something more to make me stand out?
3) What other advice do you have for someone about to start med school who's goal is to match into such a competetive specialty?
Thanks for making this thread!
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions.
1. In terms of matching into Derm, it seems that Step scores, grades, and research are the big three that give anyone a chance. In terms of the Step scores, at what score do you think a person should consider another specialty?
2. Location is important with regard to any specialty, but especially with generally dermatology, it seems that it might play a large factor in terms of reimbursements. Have you given thought to where you might want to practice or how much location will motivate where you will live and practice?
3. Would you consider Radiology to be just as competitive and hard to get into as Derm?
1. In terms of matching into Derm, it seems that Step scores, grades, and research are the big three that give anyone a chance. In terms of the Step scores, at what score do you think a person should consider another specialty?
2. Location is important with regard to any specialty, but especially with generally dermatology, it seems that it might play a large factor in terms of reimbursements. Have you given thought to where you might want to practice or how much location will motivate where you will live and practice?
3. Would you consider Radiology to be just as competitive and hard to get into as Derm?
1. They will help your application somewhat, but most programs will want to see dermatology-related research as well.
2. Get some dermatology related research.
3. Keep your grades up. Try to get elected to junior AOA, if possible. Do well on the boards. Don't act like an annoying gunner, at least when you're working in the department.
1. I'd break it down like this:
> 240 = solid chance of matching
220's-230's = borderline, could potentially be salvaged with a research fellowship if you don't match on 1st attempt
< 220 = definitely need a to consider another field/apply to a back-up
2. Compensation is generally lower in major cities and desirable areas. Regardless, I'd still like to practice in a major city on either coast, even if it means earning a little less. I've never lived in a small town before, and have no intention of starting now.
3. No, radiology is a much larger field, with 3-4x more positions. It's not nearly as competitive as derm.
To put it in perspective, in the 2011 match, 135 IMGs and DOs managed to match in radiology, constituting 12% of their entering class. In that same cycle, a total of 9 DOs and IMGs matched in derm/IM-derm, or 2% of the entering class.
What is your backup plan if you don't match into derm? I mean, call me a greedy bastard, but I do want a nice life style and something tells me that if an individual wants derm and doesn't get it, can't turn around and apply for rad oncology. Is you only option family medicine?
Thanks.
Thanks.
If your primary concern is having a nice lifestyle, then I would reconsider going to medical school. To put it bluntly, the chances of not having an application competitive enough to match into dermatology or other similarly competitive specialties is high. Also, if you even hint at having an attitude like this when you're applying to medical school or residency, your chances will be shot.
I would consider becoming a dentist; a general dentist will earn as much as many medical specialists while working fewer hours. Residency training is optional. Though again, I doubt dental adcoms will look kindly upon that kind of an attitude.
Thanks for making this thread and answering all our questions! I'm starting med school in the fall, and this is very informative.
Now that you have finished med school and started residency, what are some things you wished you had known during med school and the residency application process?
One more quick question--I have some blemishes/scars from acne on my cheeks. Other blemishes on my forehead or chin will fade relatively quickly but the blemishes on my cheeks do not seem to go away. I do not wear heavy foundation or other makeup on a regular basis. Do you have any suggestions on how to make these blemishes fade? Or do I just have to wait it out? Thanks!
Now that you have finished med school and started residency, what are some things you wished you had known during med school and the residency application process?
One more quick question--I have some blemishes/scars from acne on my cheeks. Other blemishes on my forehead or chin will fade relatively quickly but the blemishes on my cheeks do not seem to go away. I do not wear heavy foundation or other makeup on a regular basis. Do you have any suggestions on how to make these blemishes fade? Or do I just have to wait it out? Thanks!
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Have you tried wearing a good moisturizer with SPF 30+ daily? What about getting monthly facials, microdermabrasion treatments, and glycolic peels? 😀
- Preclinical grades DO matter (if you're hoping to match in a highly competitive specialty)
- The preclinical years are almost 100% pure rote memorization, which at least for me, was a complete change from undergrad. The quicker you realize that you're just expected to memorize minutiae and regurgitate on command, the faster you'll figure out the best way for you to study.
- Random extracurriculars in med school are completely overrated. No residency PD will ever care that you ran the specialty XYZ interest group, or that you were a member of AMSA.
It's difficult to say without seeing the specific kind of "blemishes" you have. Different types and degrees of acne scarring warrant different treatments. I don't usually like to discuss medical issues online, because I personally haven't evaluated you.
That said, there's a 19 year old premed "future dermatologist" dispensing advice above, if you're interested.
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Burn.
How are grades assessed if I were to go to a school that uses P/F in the preclinical years? What type of grading system did you have in your first two years?
Thanks again!
😳 I was merely suggesting following the advice my Dermatologist in high school gave me when I suffered the same problem; she happened to run a medispa staffed solely with other dermatologists and nurses in her office. A cursory look at any cosmetic dermatology printout in any periodical would dispense the same advice. Obviously, I accept fallibility and humbly suggest you seek medical counsel in person.
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