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Would you mind discussing the differences you've seen between private practice ENT lifestyle vs a large academic center? Thanks!
Ask an ENT attending anything
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One question I've been thinking about is this: why doesn't the field of ENT traditionally include craniofacial work? The other fields that overlap with it (OMFS and PRS) do. I'm guessing that it might be for historical reasons.
As a side note, it appears that you can do a fellowship in craniofacial if you're an ENT.
As a side note, it appears that you can do a fellowship in craniofacial if you're an ENT.
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How many years of total schooling is required for ENT?
Yes we take a week at a time sometime separating the week from the weekend. We’re a very collegial group so help with consults during the daytime when someone is in the hospital already for cases. We operate usually once on call, rare overnight stuff as most ent is like that. Most suburban ent don’t cover trauma either unless someone has a particular interest. Like most ent our inpatient census is usually none with the exception of a thyroid/neck dissection staying overnight. Weekends may round to discharge someone and see a few consults. Most stuff can be triaged to the outpatient.
This is the main difference with ortho/gen surg/neuro. When you’re on call you’re there all weekend and definitely doing at least 1 usually all day cases over the weekend.
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Is it common to take a research year, or is that mostly for those looking to pursue an academic career?
Craniofacial training is a fellowship after ent, omfs, or prs. It’s not standard for any resident who completed above residencies to comfortable doing craniofacial work. This is a niche field that requires fellowship and largely isolated to quaternary academic centers not even tertiary hospitals.
Most ent training is 5 years. There are a few residencies which are 7 years with a research grant built in for 2 years.
You can do an academic career without research and out of any residency. To become faculty at a research powerhouse then basic science research helps and those built in 2 years can really help.
Large academic center typically has residents. Faculty usually involved with research, teaching, case conferences, meetings for various committees, regional and national conferences, tumor board, etc. There are differences within academics - some people are assistant prof at a small academic center and do not pursue much research and work 4.5 days a week. Others are trying to advance to full professorship at a large, prestigious academic center, have multiple industry/basic science research grants, have a lab, work 7 days a week some clinical some research and dedicate their lives to their work. Some are part of national groups and famous within the ENT community.
Private practice same thing. Some work 3 days a week 8-3. Some work 6 days a week with busy clinical practices, part of state/national professional organizations, have management positions at the hospital or part of several hospital committees, or some are busy expanding the practice with ancillary services, etc.
There’s a huge range and it comes down to what’s your passion, how much of your life you want to dedicate to your job, how much you care about prestige, your ability/strengths, etc.
The above really applies to any field in life! You can be an average engineer at some random company, a high end engineer at apple, or ceo, or an academic engineer doing research at some random college in the midwest or a busy academic engineer trying to cut it at cal tech.
No as a general ent you’re board certified in adult and peds. Technically a gen ent can do whatever they want. It’s upto you what you want to refer. Typically gen ent will do tubes, tonsils, adenoids, sinus surgery, endoscopies, cysts/neck nodes, ear drum repairs. Complex stuff like cochlear implants, airway surgery goes to academic centers. Even as a fellowship trained pedi ENT there’s a range - some only do ears, some only airway, etc.
There is no ENT who does it all fact. If you’re the pedi airway expert in your children’s hospital then that’s all you do. You’ll refer other pedi stuff to your colleague.
Depends on the residency. Too much to learn in 5 years. Most of the above residencies including prs/OMFS do NOT incorporate significant cranio stuff. There are a handful of ent residencies where you get exposure but it is the exception not the rule that anyone without fellowship would do craniofacial
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Do you think ENT procedures/surgeries are technically challenging enough that you need above average hand-eye coordination or "natural" ability or could anyone perform them? I've heard people say you can train anyone to operate, but not sure how true that actually holds.
I've always worked with my hands well in sports or large tasks, but wonder if I'd have the minute precision to do something like repair an eardrum as you mentioned above.
I've always worked with my hands well in sports or large tasks, but wonder if I'd have the minute precision to do something like repair an eardrum as you mentioned above.
Yes some natural ability helps but training is the bulk of it. Just like any field hard work is 100x more important than natural ability.
I remember holding a sinus scope for the first time with my chairman and was terrible. Couldn’t hold it still, felt awkward. After a couple thousand scopes, it’s now second nature. I’m not naturally gifted just had good training. 99% residents are not naturals but ent attracts smart, very hard working people so we all give it our best.
I can take as much time as I want to. Private practice allows for utmost flexibility. I can work as much or as little as I want.
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So as far as lifestyle is your message that the residency is just as time consuming as the other surgical specialties (ortho for ex), but that ENT has more flexibility after residency?
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I am on my surgery rotation now, and I am liking the OR a lot more than I thought I would. It seems like on this forum there is an idea that if you want to be a surgeon, you need to be ready to work balls-to-the-wall the rest of your career. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very concerned about having a manageable lifestyle after residency, and ENT seems like it would be perfect in terms of letting me tailor my practice to how much I want to work/take-call/operate. Right now, I'm pretty interested in the big gun cases, but I can imagine that when I have kids or I am just older that wouldn't be as appealing.
In your opinion, do you think it's okay to shoot for ENT with this mindset? If I dual apply, I would probably choose radiology as my backup over general surgery. Does that say something about my level of commitment? I feel like I'm ready to take on a challenging/brutal residency, but I also want there to be a light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks.
In your opinion, do you think it's okay to shoot for ENT with this mindset? If I dual apply, I would probably choose radiology as my backup over general surgery. Does that say something about my level of commitment? I feel like I'm ready to take on a challenging/brutal residency, but I also want there to be a light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks.
Depends on the practice. Some practices you take a week at a time - generally busy weeks not brutal enough you’re up all night every night. Most places you take weekdays and weekends separately so it’s not 7 straight days. I definitely operate in half my calls, get daytime consults. Overnight stuff happens but is infrequent and maybe one night every other call week. Call is almost always home call in our specialty so have to be around for airway emergencies.
4 years college + 4 years med school + 5 years residency.
Matching into MD ENT residency as a DO is extremely difficult - I don’t know if any people who have done it. There’s so many MD students who want it that I would think you need to outshine with even higher scores, publications, some connection with faculty.
I think it’s reasonable. But just remember - ent residency is very very different from radiology residency which is 8-5 with a lunch break. Ent residency is 530 until late night without food many many days.
Call is different. Ent afterwards depending on your practice can be brutal or can be very sweet - radiology call blows. It’s in house all day. You can’t pick your own schedule really cause someone has to read all the scans coming in. If you’re procedural then it’s even more work.
Yes residency is very tough. Job wise there is more flexibility afterwards. Ortho call is surgery heavy whereas ent is generally much better nights/weekends
If not ent then would have looked into neurosurg or orthopedics. I’m really glad I went to ent. It’s really interesting, unique, and allows you to have a life outside of medicine.
KeenJohnson
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Should I be wary of programs that claim to devote an entire day during the work week to “academics” (I.e. no clinic or OR on these days). It seems like a waste of an entire day for potential OR time, etc. but I just don’t know if this is typical for most ENT programs? Also, should I be wary of programs that seem to always have multiple residents scrubbed into a case?
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I want to go into ENT because my brother whose life was saved by a famous ent. I dont have LoRs or anything but does this provide me an advantage in anyway having a personal tie/motivator to the field? Hes soon to retire, I'm still in undergraduate, and I probably couldn't shadow him or anything due to logistics. However his associate from 15 years ago during the initial surgeries (my brother still has surgeries every couple years and will for life until a research breakthrough) lives close to me. Would it be worth it to travel and shadow him on weekends prior to med school? Or should I wait til m1 to focus on ENT exposure
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do y'all do more open surgeries or laparoscopic?
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