Ask an OMS resident anything

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armorshell

armorshell

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Did this last year to avoid studying for a test and it went well, so let's do it again (for the same reason).

TO my OMS compadres, please feel free to jump in.

I'm a 2nd year OMS resident, ask me absolutely anything.
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armorshell said:
Did this last year to avoid studying for a test and it went well, so let's do it again (for the same reason).

TO my OMS compadres, please feel free to jump in.

I'm a 2nd year OMS resident, ask me absolutely anything.
Click to expand...

How many hours a week do you work?

Are you only doing didactic work right now or are you (also) in the clinic?

Are you happy at your program?

What surprised you about OMS?

I've always wondered this...do you find medical school a lot easier than your peers because you taken similar pre-clinical classes?

What don't you like about being an OMS?
 
Where do you see yourself in 10 years. What do you plan on doing (scope of practice-wise), and how much money do you plan on making?
 
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Double Bonded said:
How many hours a week do you work?
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I'm in 3rd year medical school right now, so this varies by rotation. Generally less than 40 hours a week this year, comparatively easier than dental school.

Double Bonded said:
Are you only doing didactic work right now or are you (also) in the clinic?
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3rd year medical school is didactic and "clinical." I use the quotes because you don't really treat patients, it's more like "advanced shadowing."

Double Bonded said:
Are you happy at your program?
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Yes, though I'd be much happier if I were allowed to moonlight. I currently have no outlet to practice any dentistry and that just sucks.

Double Bonded said:
What surprised you about OMS?
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The amount of time you spend in residency not directly learning OMS. This shoudn't have been surprising considering it's a well known fact, but I suppose it just feels longer when you're in the midst of it.

Double Bonded said:
I've always wondered this...do you find medical school a lot easier than your peers because you taken similar pre-clinical classes?
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There's two reasons why it's easier. One is because you'e had clinical experience and are much more comfortable around patients. Second is because you already have a residency guaranteed, the stress level is much lower for you. You can interact with the residents and faculty (who are grading you) on a more peer-peer or collegiate level. For some reason (which seems counterintuitive to me) this leads to higher clinical grades. I have been very casual about my rotations (read: lazy), yet I have had perfect clinical evals the whole way through.

Double Bonded said:
\
What don't you like about being an OMS?
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The residency is long, and it's very hard to keep living a student lifestyle while your dental school classmates are moving on with their lives around you. Also, loans keep accruing interest and if you go the 6 year route, you probably acquire some more.
 
Are you doing the 4-year or 6-year OMFS program?

Does the 6-year one make a major difference in anyway?
 
Contach said:
Where do you see yourself in 10 years. What do you plan on doing (scope of practice-wise), and how much money do you plan on making?
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As far as the scope I'll be practicing, like most oral surgeons, I will likely be primarily in private practice. I actually would enjoy academics quite a bit, but secondary to my debt load I will likely have to go into private practice.

Secondary to that, in 10 years I'll be 5.5 years into practice, and by this time I'd like to be well on my way towards eliminating my debt and establishing a solo practice/buying into a partnership.
 
1. When/why did you decide to become an OMFS instead of other specialities/general dentist?

2. What path did you take to become an OMFS resident? (in terms of D-school experience and internships/GPR/other post graduate experience)
 
Are there any women in your program? If so, how many and what are the gender dynamics like? If not, do you know whether your program discriminates against women or is it just that they haven't had a chance to take a woman for whatever reason (ex. less women applying, women don't want to move to the area your residency is at, etc.)?

What were your reasons for choosing a 6 year program?

You said you're working 40 hours a week this year, generally. How do you expect that to change in the coming years? Basically how much are the older residents working/how does the schedule change?

I think I read somewhere that residents will work 16-18 hours/day in OMS programs, but I can't remember where I'm pulling those numbers from...please correct me if I'm wrong. If y'all do, in fact, spend so much time working, how does that fall within the limit regulations and how is it possible to have any semblance of a life outside of the hospital?

Have you pulled any long shifts? What is the maximum # of hours you or your co-residents (in whatever year) are expected to stay awake? In these cases, where the shifts are really long, do you have time to nap or is there a constant stream of things to do?
 
armorshell said:
I am doing the 6-year program. It makes a difference in that you get a medical degree.
Click to expand...

Other than that, the 6 year program doesn't make a huge difference in the scope of practice, or do you think it does based on what you've seen? Do most of the attendings in your program hold dual degrees?
 
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This might be too personal, but hell I'll go for it: do you have a girlfriend or a wife? Do you find you're able to balance the challenges of being in a relationship with your residency?

I would imagine there's a lot of sacrifice on the end of the significant other (professional, personal, etc.) with a residency like this. If you could, would you briefly discuss your experience/opinions on this?

Edit: How often are OMS residents at your program on call?
 
LaFleur said:
Are there any women in your program? If so, how many and what are the gender dynamics like? If not, do you know whether your program discriminates against women or is it just that they haven't had a chance to take a woman for whatever reason (ex. less women applying, women don't want to move to the area your residency is at, etc.)?
Click to expand...

At the moment we are an all male program as far as residents are concerned (We have 2 female attendings.) We interview several women every year, and have ranked them high in the past but they have gone elsewhere. The ratio of male:female applicants is around 10:1.


LaFleur said:
You said you're working 40 hours a week this year, generally. How do you expect that to change in the coming years? Basically how much are the older residents working/how does the schedule change?
Click to expand...

This always depends on the rotation site. In the coming year I'll primarily be doing OMS as a mid-level residents which will likely be 12 hour days and primary call (24 hour call shifts 2-3 times per week), and anesthesia which will be more manageable. Our upper level residents are likely working around 10-15 hour days depending on the site.


LaFleur said:
I think I read somewhere that residents will work 16-18 hours/day in OMS programs, but I can't remember where I'm pulling those numbers from...please correct me if I'm wrong. If y'all do, in fact, spend so much time working, how does that fall within the limit regulations and how is it possible to have any semblance of a life outside of the hospital?
Click to expand...

This depends on the program and how you're calculating it. For interns this may be true, especially if you're including call shifts into the average number of hours. For example, if I work 5am to 5pm 5 days a week and take a weekday and a weekend call, that's an 96 hour work week. For the 6 days I'd be in the hospital, it would average out to 16 hours a day. However, 4 of those days I'm going home at 5. Definitely leaves some time for a life, though in any OMS residency you're going to take a hit to what you can do socially (unless you don't care much about sleep :cool:).

As far as the work week hour caps, it depends on your hospital. OMS is not a medical specialty, and therefore not subject to the rules of ACGME so there are technically no caps on shift length or maximum hours/week.

LaFleur said:
Have you pulled any long shifts? What is the maximum # of hours you or your co-residents (in whatever year) are expected to stay awake? In these cases, where the shifts are really long, do you have time to nap or is there a constant stream of things to do?
Click to expand...

The longest I worked as an intern was for 36 hours straight. Luckily I managed to sneak an hour of sleep in there (that day had a pretty constant stream of things to do) which made it suck less. Usually there is some time to nap somewhere, but not a lot. Also at my residency we have enough manpower that if you were dangerously tired you could probably call in the reserves.
 
LaFleur said:
Other than that, the 6 year program doesn't make a huge difference in the scope of practice, or do you think it does based on what you've seen? Do most of the attendings in your program hold dual degrees?
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If you're interested in academics or hospital based practice, a MD will help you tremendously. Fellowship is basically unattainable without it and I see job postings on the AAOMS career line with "MD-preferred or MD degree required" all the time. In my opinion this is (unfortunately) the direction the field is moving, which is part of the reason I wanted to obtain the medical degree. Most of the attendings in my program did not train at a time when dual degrees were available, so no.
 
LaFleur said:
This might be too personal, but hell I'll go for it: do you have a girlfriend or a wife?
Click to expand...

Why, interested? ;)

LaFleur said:
Do you find you're able to balance the challenges of being in a relationship with your residency?

I would imagine there's a lot of sacrifice on the end of the significant other (professional, personal, etc.) with a residency like this. If you could, would you briefly discuss your experience/opinions on this?

Edit: How often are OMS residents at your program on call?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can balance the demands of a relationship with residency. Our residents have had many successful relationships survive residency, even a few long distance ones. There is going to be some sacrifice on the end of the significant other, but as long as they understand that it's going to be temporary and have reasonable expectations, combined with effort on the part of the resident to spend quality free time with their partner, things can definitely be fine.

And if things don't work out, you get to spend all your time in a hospital chock full of attractive medical professionals. :cool:

Call is usually Q3-Q4 depending on the month for interns and mid-level residents. Chiefs are always on backup home call and get called in maybe a few times a month.
 
Do you know how much an omfs makes working strictly for a hospital? ( obviously varies by state, but on average)
 
mr24 said:
Do you know how much an omfs makes working strictly for a hospital? ( obviously varies by state, but on average)
Click to expand...

This is incredibly hard to pin down and probably varies wildly from the number I'm going to throw out, but I'm going to say $200,000 for the associate professor level, moving up in the 300s for program director/chair academic level.
 
Thanks for doing this, armorshell.

I was wondering how much (roughly) a 6-year OMFS/MD program would cost? I'll be in about 400K debt after dental school, and I'm not sure how much more money banks will loan me.
 
armorshell said:
Why, interested? ;)
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Obviously... :p Nah, I don't think you're my type. Sorry boys, not everyone gets lucky enough to be that type!



Thanks so much for answering the long list of questions I presented!
 
Last edited:
bluepills said:
Thanks for doing this, armorshell.

I was wondering how much (roughly) a 6-year OMFS/MD program would cost? I'll be in about 400K debt after dental school, and I'm not sure how much more money banks will loan me.
Click to expand...

Depends on where you go. Go to a private medical school and you pay private prices. My medical school gives us in state tuition so it's very reasonable. Grad plus loans have no cap so you can borrow until your eyes bleed.
 
So I understand it is extremely hard to match in OMFS, but if someone is top 5% of their class with equivalent to 90's on whatever the new residency test is (NBME?), and doesn't have a terrible interview, is it likely to match into an OMFS program? or is it sort of a roll of the dice like ortho?

Especially the texas schools, if you have stats like that and apply to all four (MD-only) is it likely you get in or more like a crap-shoot?

If you had to guess, what would you say is the average private practice salary? (500,000 is what was released in the ADA survery, does that seem high or probably about right for an owner?)

THANKS!
 
K Niner said:
So I understand it is extremely hard to match in OMFS, but if someone is top 5% of their class with equivalent to 90's on whatever the new residency test is (NBME?), and doesn't have a terrible interview, is it likely to match into an OMFS program? or is it sort of a roll of the dice like ortho?

Especially the texas schools, if you have stats like that and apply to all four (MD-only) is it likely you get in or more like a crap-shoot?

If you had to guess, what would you say is the average private practice salary? (500,000 is what was released in the ADA survery, does that seem high or probably about right for an owner?)

THANKS!
Click to expand...

With stats like that you would certainly get in somewhere, but the more you limit yourself (Texas schools only), the more you're diminishing your chances.

For an average 400-500 seems about right.
 
armorshell.
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
y u no do parkland update on OMS Program review?
 
Does going to a dental school that makes you take your science classes with the medical students help get into an OMS program? Is there a consensus on the new test for the OMS program? (USMLE?)
 
What is the best thing a student just beginning dental school can do to put themselves in a good place to specialize into OMS?

Is it true some programs have a stipend that they pay their residents?

Did you do any externships in dental school? If so, how many?

What dental school did you go to/where are you at now for your OMS residency?

What was your class rank and board score, if you don't mind me asking.

Thank you for doing this, I have already learned a lot just by reading your answers to the other posters questions. :)
 
I recently got accepted into UM dental school's dds/phd program. I'm still waiting to hear back from UPENN about whether or not to take the fellowship training. I guess my question is unlike others, but do you think, that with the economy the way it is right now, is it worth going to school to get additional phd training, but have dental school paid for or doyou think it's better to bite the bullet and head to UPENN to eventually place into a specialty program of my choice? I love the programs at both schools, but I love being in Philadelphia as a city more than Ann arbor.

I am really interested in oms, having interned for oral surgeons for 3 years as an undergrad, but I know I've never experienced it yet and I'm too young to understand the scope of oms. However, with that said, is the additional phd training worth having dental school paid for?

For everyone to be clear, I understand research is not for everyone and that dds/PhDs usually only really use their phd for the research. But for me, I enjoy research and applied tothe program not knowing if I would get an acceptance. Now that I have it, is it financially a good decision to go into it?I only know of a very small handful of oms residents and program directors that have the dual degree training. I'm Assuming that most candidates eventually can pursues life in academia, but choose not to because of the financial burden of dental school loans and the high interest rates.
 
Thanks for doing this as well?

What program are you currently at now?
Where did you go for your DMD/DDS, and do you feel it made a difference?
 
Bereno said:
Does going to a dental school that makes you take your science classes with the medical students help get into an OMS program? Is there a consensus on the new test for the OMS program? (USMLE?)
Click to expand...

Hard to say with the new NBME, as there is generally a focus on different aspects of the biomedical sciences with than the NBDE. I imagine it might make a small difference for the first few years when the test is relatively new, but likely not much after.
 
avangusva said:
What is the best thing a student just beginning dental school can do to put themselves in a good place to specialize into OMS?
Click to expand...

Get excellent grades and put yourself in a position to do well on boards. Do externships early and often.

avangusva said:
Is it true some programs have a stipend that they pay their residents?
Click to expand...

All of them do. Whether or not you get paid during med school differs from program to program.

avangusva said:
Did you do any externships in dental school? If so, how many?
Click to expand...
Yep, I did 8 weeks worth of externships at 3 different programs.

avangusva said:
What dental school did you go to/where are you at now for your OMS residency?
)
Click to expand...

Pacific. In residency at Parkland Memorial/University of Texas-Southwestern.

avangusva said:
What was your class rank and board score, if you don't mind me asking.
Click to expand...

3/143 | 97
 
a2ndragoon89 said:
I recently got accepted into UM dental school's dds/phd program. I'm still waiting to hear back from UPENN about whether or not to take the fellowship training. I guess my question is unlike others, but do you think, that with the economy the way it is right now, is it worth going to school to get additional phd training, but have dental school paid for or doyou think it's better to bite the bullet and head to UPENN to eventually place into a specialty program of my choice? I love the programs at both schools, but I love being in Philadelphia as a city more than Ann arbor.

I am really interested in oms, having interned for oral surgeons for 3 years as an undergrad, but I know I've never experienced it yet and I'm too young to understand the scope of oms. However, with that said, is the additional phd training worth having dental school paid for?

For everyone to be clear, I understand research is not for everyone and that dds/PhDs usually only really use their phd for the research. But for me, I enjoy research and applied tothe program not knowing if I would get an acceptance. Now that I have it, is it financially a good decision to go into it?I only know of a very small handful of oms residents and program directors that have the dual degree training. I'm Assuming that most candidates eventually can pursues life in academia, but choose not to because of the financial burden of dental school loans and the high interest rates.
Click to expand...

This is a really complex and difficult question, and I don't really feel like I know your situation well enough to offer a well informed opinion.
 
UltimateHombre said:
This article was mentioned in another thread here recently: http://news.yahoo.com/parents-sue-te...143224302.html

I was wondering what your personal thoughts were on prophylactic extraction of third molars and how the OMS community responds to tragic accidents like the above?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Click to expand...

It's really unfortunate to hear about this case, but anesthetic disasters like this are incredibly rare. There's several published case series showing deaths from anesthesia provided by oral surgeons is around 1:500,000, and this case is especially odd considering the sedation was provided by an anesthesiologist.

As far a prophylactic extractions, I'd lean on the prospective research by UNC over the retrospective insurance claim reviews being pumped out by Friedman. There seems to be indications for prophylactic extraction in a narrow population that is supported by science. Whether or not it's cost effective is another question, but in the long run the insurance companies will decide that for us.
 
armorshell said:
All of them do. Whether or not you get paid during med school differs from program to program.
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do you know if all the 4 year omfs programs pay stipends? if so does the stipend vary? and if it pays a stipend, does that mean theres no tuition?
 
Armorshell, are you aware of any programs where single-degree oral surgeons can go back for the two years of medical school to obtain their MD?
 
DentalGunner said:
Yup, found them on facebook.
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a gunner and a stalker... good mix LOL :D

armorshell said:
3/143 when I applied. Pay attention!
Click to expand...

3/143 and 7/143 are both pretty amazing. However, I was most impressed with the 97 board score! Nuts! I just want to focus on passing lol


Do you think schools are going to allot time to take each specialty specific test if a student wants to?

Do you think it is bad to apply to more than one type of specialty at a time?
 
Bereno said:
Do you think it is bad to apply to more than one type of specialty at a time?
Click to expand...

Are you allowed to do this?

I'm assuming it'd at the very least be frowned upon, if not make it practically impossible for someone to land a residency if the PD's found out, but maybe that's just my incorrect assumption.
 
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