non trad student, doing well in 1st year at top 25 school, loves medical school and thinking about medical school admissions. I would love to at least attempt to answer/thoughtfully discuss premed questions.
Ask M1 anything
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New SDN article: Learn the steps you need to take to apply to medical school.
That's a great question and I think it depends on who you ask. Personally, I think the answer is yes (regarding pre-clerkship years). Before I got here, I mentally built up expectations for this year to be something nearly impossible- and it isn't that at all. Basic sciences are certainly challenging--sometimes it (subjectively) feels like the volume is approximately a week of undergrad per day--but once you get into the groove of studying etc. you just get used to it, and you also begin to find the spaces where non-school can go. If anything, the biggest change has just been the necessity of daily studying in order to keep up. In undergrad I studied for a day or two before exams, with WEEKS of nothing in between. Now, I essentially study every weekday, take Saturday off on non-exam weeks, and then get ready for Monday on Sunday afternoon.
Would you have 5-10 hours a week to edit secondaries for money?
Background: I woke up this morning feeling good. A little too good. So I went into my garage and did burpees until I puked.
Then I had an idea: It's called "Second Look" and recruits med students to proofread secondaries about to be submitted to their school. It would be best if they are involved with the admissions process. Applicants submit through an online portal, pay a fee. The reader gets a cut, I get a cut.
Would you have time? Would the drinking/lunch money be worth it?
Background: I woke up this morning feeling good. A little too good. So I went into my garage and did burpees until I puked.
Then I had an idea: It's called "Second Look" and recruits med students to proofread secondaries about to be submitted to their school. It would be best if they are involved with the admissions process. Applicants submit through an online portal, pay a fee. The reader gets a cut, I get a cut.
Would you have time? Would the drinking/lunch money be worth it?
Ha, people genuinely seem to have time for the things that they prioritize. Yeah, I know that's obvious, but it's true. I don't think I've studied past 11:00pm once, because I like sleep, yet some people have time to play all day (but sleep a lot less). So, 5-10 hours? I don't see why not.
Lunch and drinking money is ALWAYS worth it. Lunch with my friends is one of the highlights of my weekday and beer....well tonight post exam it tastes so incredible that I can't imagine not encouraging funding it.
How old are you? What is your background (in terms of what you studied in undergrad and what you did between undergrad and med school).
No. Medical school is a bitch. It never ends. I'm 2 months from graduating and I can tell you that it's the biggest academic accomplishment that I've even thought about having. No one subject is overtly difficult, but the summation of all of the studying, stress, hard work, and never-ending load wears on you over time.
Would I do anything differently? Nope. I would come right back and do it again if that's what it took. Just realize that medical school is infinitely more difficult than anything you have done before, solely due to how much time you have to spend on it and the lack of time that you actually get off during the 4 year experience.
I believe this, I'm just tired of the, "OMG it's impossible bro!" I just feel that a lot of pre-meds live in some bubble, and then once med school starts they are sorely disappointed.
If you search, you should be able to find an old thread where people listed their cost of applying/interviewing. Some even included mcat prep, etc. I believe the costs ranged from $2000-$10000
Amen. I think that SDN is quite far from the reality of things. On this site you usually notice people saying how they enjoy medical school, they only spend a few hours a day working, and still have time to enjoy life. I know of a couple people in my MS-1 class that are like that, but the majority of people in my class including myself, work non-stop virtually all day. There is no time to attend classes or enough time to get learn everything you need down before an exam. It's nothing like undergrad.
There was this thread in the Allopathic forum about people having more fun in medical school than undergrad. I would cringe every time I'd see it, and I'm assuming a majority of my class would feel the same way.
For most part SDN =/= reality!
If this means what I think it means, then...
- Oct 28, 2010
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Sorry for the barrage of questions, but some of this is what's on my mind. Feel free to only answer what you wish
Did you relocate for medical school? Were you geographically limited? Is there a large age difference between you and your medical school peers? How much of your social circle involves your medical school peers?
How much did total cost weigh into your decision? Did you weigh prestige and desire for a certain specialty more significantly?
Thanks
What did you do between undergrad and medical school and do you think it's helping with medical school?
What was your undergraduate major and do you think it's helping with medical school?
Thanks!
What was your undergraduate major and do you think it's helping with medical school?
Thanks!
I love sports and went to a major basketball school, I wish I would have gone to more games. Ha, I wish I would have spent less time during my application cycle obsessively checking my inbox. Applying, for me, was definitely an exercise of faith and lesson in patience.
I'm in my late 20s. I was a bio major and have a minor in one of the humanities. I felt like undergrad would be the last time to really explore other things--especially within the scholarly structure of a major academic institution with the guidance of experts--and I relished that. Also, I am a reverse non-trad student. I didn't go to college until I was older. I spent my early 20s as a construction laborer.
yep
Sorry for the barrage of questions, but some of this is what's on my mind. Feel free to only answer what you wish
Did you relocate for medical school? Were you geographically limited? Is there a large age difference between you and your medical school peers? How much of your social circle involves your medical school peers?
Yes, but I didn't move across the country or anything. Within a few states. I only applied to east coast schools and one or two in Chicago. I had pretty specific ideas of where I wanted to live (if possible). A lot of people are actually younger than I expected, but there are plenty of people in there mid 20s, too, and a small number of people >30. I have a couple of best friends that I engage with the most both outside of and inside of school. However, I also have friends that are doing their residencies at the same institution, and I spent time with them too. Overall, its a mix. I have a significant other that makes her own contributions to my friend circle.
How much did total cost weigh into your decision? Did you weigh prestige and desire for a certain specialty more significantly?
Money weighed in a fair amount...to some degree. I had an acceptance to a school in a MAJOR east coast city that I really liked (and was crazy about location), but I went with the more inexpensive option- both tuition and cost of living. However, to make it more complicated, the second part of your question was definitely a factor, because I indeed chose the slightly higher ranked school. But, $ was probably the main factor, as the other school wouldn't have limited me in anyway that I know of. Also, I had always wanted to attend the school I picked (even when thinking about where I would like to go to undergrad), so I was fortunate to essentially go with my original #1 pick.
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Well, as I said I worked construction for several years prior to school and I am a bio major.
Construction: sure. I worked various exhausting jobs and really long hours- and the legacy of those experiences, which is essentially learning what hard work looks like, has been positive as I deal with the responsibilities and time commitment of medical school. I do love school--I don't care if most students don't--but it is still essentially all I do, with a little bit of beer and sports and gym mixed in as much as I can. But, that being said, everyone experiences it differently, and there are people with much more impressive backgrounds than me that probably don't enjoy it as much. But medicine is all I want to do and so I might as well love the work. Getting my ass kicked 5 and 6 days a week for 10,12,14 hours a day as a 21 year old helped develop that attitude. Also, it was during that time that I decided I wanted to become a doctor, so the memories I have of the life I didn't want to lead anymore helps keep things in perspective now. I know how fortunate I am to get to do this, partially because I have the lived experience of this whole other life.
Undergrad major- I don't think so anymore than taking the classes necessary to take the MCAT. I never took biochem and didn't have any problems with it in medical school. It just takes work. (Did people who majored in biochem breeze through it more than me? of course.)
Amen. I think that SDN is quite far from the reality of things. On this site you usually notice people saying how they enjoy medical school, they only spend a few hours a day working, and still have time to enjoy life. I know of a couple people in my MS-1 class that are like that, but the majority of people in my class including myself, work non-stop virtually all day. There is no time to attend classes or enough time to get learn everything you need down before an exam. It's nothing like undergrad.
There was this thread in the Allopathic forum about people having more fun in medical school than undergrad. I would cringe every time I'd see it, and I'm assuming a majority of my class would feel the same way.
For most part SDN =/= reality!
If this means what I think it means, then...
I feel as though people tend to downplay their struggles when speaking amongst peers while emphasizing them when talking to undergraduates. Most of my classmates spend a significant amount of time studying, especially if they are aspiring to a competitive specialty or geographical area. The ones that don't are either doing poorly or excel at cramming.
If I was doing UG over again I would major in Finance and minor in spanish and a science field (genetics, cell biology, physiology, etc). While hardcore science classes may help for the first month, everyone will be on an even playing field soon enough in medical school. Too many people think that it's going to be helpful to be a biochem, genetics, and cell biology triple major, when in fact non of that stuff is going to make a hill of beans of difference in medical school, and in all likelihood this guy will get beat by the girl who majored in French.
Study what makes you happy and gives you balance. It doesn't matter what you major in.
- Jun 24, 2011
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My first semester we took Biochem and Anatomy together. Because I'd taken Genetics, Cell Molec Biology, and Biochem in undergrad I had a lot more time studying for Anatomy. So I would definitely recommend UGs to take some advanced bio classes - it'll ease the transition to medical school.
a monkey could do finance, and I say this as someone who majored and worked in finance for years.
I actually only drink water or beer, but used to prefer coke products.
I hang out with my significant other and dog, i watch sports, go to the gym, go out with friends. Our entire school tries to go out together as much as possible, there is probably a medical school party at someones place once a month. etc. 3rd years never make it out to anything, ha.
I get home from lunch everyday and try to get started by around 2:00pm, when I am not volunteering or doing clinical skills all day. I am kind of a study for 20-30 minutes look at something non-school related for 5 or 10 minutes guy. I do that until dinner, eat dinner, then keep on going until 11:00pm or so. I try to take Saturdays off, and then start again Sunday after church/lunch. The time is about the same, but everything is a lot more focused and planned during exam weeks- really try to cut out the breaks etc. That's just me, of course. And, with a bit of planning, I work my school around date nights and sports games etc. when I can.
I go to a P/F school, which has obviously shaped my experience. Some people can't let go of scores, so they try to get that P+ (doesn't exist, but it's fine to shoot for). Some people are very set on not studying all the time and gladly make lower grades. I kind of wish I could do that, because embracing P/F is healthier, but it can be hard to turn off wanting to do as well as possible.
On a side note: I am pretty sure every class has someone who is an over the top genius. They study by reading things one time and never forget anything. It's incredible. Ha they probably have plenty of free time, but spend it reading stuff way beyond what we need to know.
Amen. I think that SDN is quite far from the reality of things. On this site you usually notice people saying how they enjoy medical school, they only spend a few hours a day working, and still have time to enjoy life. I know of a couple people in my MS-1 class that are like that, but the majority of people in my class including myself, work non-stop virtually all day. There is no time to attend classes or enough time to get learn everything you need down before an exam. It's nothing like undergrad.
There was this thread in the Allopathic forum about people having more fun in medical school than undergrad. I would cringe every time I'd see it, and I'm assuming a majority of my class would feel the same way.
For most part SDN =/= reality!
If this means what I think it means, then...
Med school is fun for the most part. I enjoy what I'm learning and memorizing except for a few. If you can study 6-8 hrs a day efficiently, you'll be fine. The material itself is conceptually easier than proving the fundamental theorem of calculus but it's a lot of material to memorize. Treat med school like a serious full time job and all will be well. I haven't done jack all weekend. I just got back from the gym and I plan to study from 11 PM - 6 AM or 7 AM. Take a nap and head into the anatomy lab. I will "TRY" to put in another 5-6 hrs tomorrow after lab. Sure there is an element of torture/annoyance in the process but I don't think it's different from dental school, vet, possibly pharmacy, etc. The only time I expect to sign my life away is during USMLE prep and some crazy rotations in third year.
For me, med school is slightly better than grad school where I felt guilty for not spending enough time in lab every weekend running experiments, or choosing to go home at 10 PM despite not eluting the protein from the column.
Med school isn't easy, but it's very doable. Just treat it like a serious full time job. Residency is the real bitch.
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I appreciate the bolded part, since I've found that taking a day off helps me the rest of the week (in undergrad at least).
I've heard that SDN exaggerates how hard it is to get into med school, have you found this to be the case?
I appreciate the bolded part, since I've found that taking a day off helps me the rest of the week (in undergrad at least).
I've heard that SDN exaggerates how hard it is to get into med school, have you found this to be the case?
Ha, that's hard to say. I agree, to some degree, that the challenge can be overstated here. Yet, on the other hand, with the sheer number of qualified applicants, its pretty tough to get into a good US MD school, if for no other reason than very few of us are so darn impressive that we are absolute shoe-ins. So, getting an acceptance is definitely a blessing. I think that--to me at least--the thing about medical school admissions, as opposed to friends who went through admissions into the other professional schools, is the lack of straight forwardness. The matriculating classes seem to be often put together with more of a dynamic specificity that creates unique opportunities for both miracles and heartbreaks. The people I know who went to law school in particular could look at their GPA and LSAT and predict with pretty darn good accuracy where they would be accepted and where they would be accepted + scholarships. Medical school, for many applicants, lacks that kind of cut and dryness. I know I was rejected and wait listed some places where my numbers were "supposed" to make me very competitive, and then I gained acceptances to a couple of schools where my MCAT was below the average, but it was perceived that I was a fit. Being seen as a "fit" is definitely worth something.
In a nutshell, the standard advice of applying early, broadly, and realistically is pretty much the best advice, because you want to do yourself all the favors you can.
I live with my significant other a couple miles from school. For me, I found housing the same way I had been doing it before (realtors/craigslist/whatever). Many of my classmates probably set stuff up during second look or whatever medical school discussion forum there is for finding roommates. We also have a class facebook page that was probably utilized for housing at first? I am always so impressed by how random roommates end up (well, sometimes) being such good fits. Ha, i guess the opposite happens too. Those people have already started to plan some rearrangements for next year.
If you've got some free time prior to beginning medical school, do you recommend buying the new Step 1 First Aid book and getting some of the M1 coursework down?
My own personal opinion is absolutely not. Pre-studying is pointless and won't give you any advantage. When you get to school that will make even more sense. The summer before is such a great summer- you know you're going to medical school but you don't have any work to do yet. You are going to work so hard for so long- just enjoy the summer, have fun, and relax.
Generalizations are general. My group of friends really doesn't study very much; I study the least for sure and we all still do very well. For our last pathophys exam, I probably studied an average of 3-4 hours a day during the week, a little more on the weekends, went a day or two every once and a while of not studying, and still got above average on our last exam. I think a good chunk of my class has the same approach.
Medical school isn't something that takes up 12 hours of your day everyday unless you let it or you suck at memorizing things. I will freely admit that I may not represent "normal," but, on the other hand, I would also argue that studying "virtually all day" also doesn't represent normal.
This.
I honestly average 3-4 hrs per day and I feel "guilty" because my classmates put in more time. That's why above I said 6-8 hrs a day should be sufficient.
Yup, I feel the same. When we first started and I heard that, I thought I was missing something or just not getting it. In reality, I think those people were either way overstudying or are just the kind of people that spend a lot of time studying. One of my good friends says that studying is actually therapeutic for him; it relieves some of his stress and makes him feel comfortable just by putting in the time. I wonder how many people have the same approach.
For me, studying is at the bottom of my list of things I want to do (even though I like the material), so I naturally do it as little as possible.
You're still in the pre-clinical portion of your training, correct? Otherwise good students can usually get by with fairly minimum studying at that point, especially if you're in a pass-fail setting. Your free time goes away once you enter your clinical years.
My situation sounds very similar to yours regarding the non trad status. I have also worked full time for 6 years before deciding to start my undergrad in my mid 20's, I agree with everything you said about it teaching you hard work ethic and also showing you a glimpse of what you don't want to resort back to, but my MAIN question is did your non trad and work experience come up during your application / interview process? Thanks for all the info!
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