Ask me (almost) anything

[LizzyM]

Thanks for taking the time to answer all our questions.

I was just pondering the following things...

Does getting an interview invite essentially equate to "this candidate looks okay on paper, lets see what's really behind the numbers?" I guess what I'm getting at is, after receiving an interview invite, do candidates get rejected because of a poor GPA/MCAT? Or are they primarily rejected because their interview indicated that they weren't a suitable candidate for medical school X? One of the primary reasons I ask this is because I was fortunate enough to get an opportunity to interview at a school even though my numbers are far lower than their averages.

yes, no, yes.

How much weight do you give to non-medical community service?

It is nice but not essential if someone has been using their time in other ways (e.g. research and clinical volunteerism and employment).

Given the fact that I have only received one II this cycle, I am planning to apply to both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools next year if things don't work out favorably. For most DO programs, I will need a letter from an osteopathic physician. Can I use the letter from shadowing an osteopathic physician for MD schools, or will it be looked upon unfavorably?

Thanks for reading through my questions. Happy New Year!

I generally don't give much weight to letters from physicians (MD or DO). We don't get many applicants who are applying both MD and DO so I don't get many DO letters but I wouldn't think badly of someone who had a DO letter.

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[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for taking Holiday time to write this stuff up Lizzy, it really helps.

My question is about typos on the AMCAS; I was completely stupid enough to have not one, but two fairly noticeable typos on my application (one in an activity description, and one in the first sentence of my PS). Would this be a death knell for me at a lot of schools?

I don't feel 100% awful about it because I at least have a couple of interviews, but I feel absolutely terrible about making such a mistake, and I'm constantly worried that the schools that are considering me didn't see the typos at first, will find them, then laugh at my carelessness and stamp their big red rubber REJECTION on my file : (

We all make mistakes and sometimes, if you catch an adcom member on a bad day, it could be used against you but sometimes it won't be caught or it will be forgiven. What's done is done. Cross your fingers and hope it doesn't result in needing to apply again next year.

 

[LizzyM]

How are summer sci classes (taken at the same school) viewed?

A-OK. It is not uncommon, particularly if people want to go abroad for a semester.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM, I was fortunate enough to recently interview at my dream school and the visit greatly strengthened my desrie to study medicine there. Would formally stating by mail that I will be happy with only an acceptance without any merit or need-based scholarship increase my chances of getting accepted there?

Not at my school. The decision to admit is made by the adcom composed of members of the faculty (as is required by the LCME -- the accrediting body for medical schools), whereas decisions about $ are made by the dean of admissions and the financial aid office.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for the prompt reply! Fortunately, my science courses were the same as traditional premed's. While we did have wacky nursing courses with wacky grading scales, I've managed a 3.8 cumulative thus far with one semester to go. That brings me to my next question: Would it be more beneficial to change majors and graduate in 2013 as opposed to 2012 with my BSN? I'd be cutting a year-long leadership position in half, but I could add a year of research with psychology to go along with a year of research I'm currently involved with.

Is it viewed poorly when applicants have changed majors at such a late time in their education? I have no desire to be a nurse or nurse derivative at this point. It would take a year to graduate with a psychology degree, which I'm very interested in, and I have to take a year for organic chemistry and physics regardless.

Again, thank you for all of this amazing information!

Change your major! Having "psychology" listed on your applicaiton rather than "Nursing" will help you avoid some odd questions. Anyone who looks closely at your courses will see that you took nursing courses and that is an easy way to say that as you proceeded in your education that you decided that you'd made a mistake and that medicine rather than nursing was the right path for you.

 

[LizzyM]

I have read a number of Medical schools secondary questions. Some of them seem to have little to do with being a doctor. Some seem idiotic. Who comes up with the questions and how can they tell you will make a good doctor. Can they be a make or break for a borderline applicant.

Some might be a way of determining if you are going to be a good student at that school rather than whether you'll be a good doctor. Can you give me some examples of questions you think are wacky?

 

[LizzyM]

What is the best way to show that an illness that previously affected schoolwork is no longer an issue, without going into specifics about diagnosis, etc? Would 3+ years of solid grades and ECs be a sufficient way to show this?

Three years of solid grades and ECs are always good.

 

[Long Way to Go]

I generally don't give much weight to letters from physicians (MD or DO). We don't get many applicants who are applying both MD and DO so I don't get many DO letters but I wouldn't think badly of someone who had a DO letter.

I take it that this is the case for physicians whom the applicant only knows through shadowing and not physicians whom the applicant has worked with in a research lab?

 

[LizzyM]

I take it that this is the case for physicians whom the applicant only knows through shadowing and not physicians whom the applicant has worked with in a research lab?

Correct. We don't get many letters from MDs in labs. Most often the letters from MDs are from shadowing or family friends. Once I had a letter from an MD who wrote "I hope that Fred will someday be my son-in-law..."

 

[thestrokes14]

What sort of research scholarships/fellowships are you aware of, and how are they typically ranked in your mind?

 

[LizzyM]

What sort of research scholarships/fellowships are you aware of, and how are they typically ranked in your mind?

Rhodes > Fulbright >Goldwater. Haven't actually seen anyone with a Goldwater... maybe I'd be very impressed if I did.

Intel Science Prize seems impressive until you realize that there are so many layers and that some are just a couple grand but still, IMO, it is one of the few HS things that absolutely should be added to the experience section.

 

[mohad]

I have a good GPA and MCAT score, but I realized that I am extremely weak in the EC area, thus making me very one dimensional. I started to pile on activities back in novemeber, and I'm trying to cram everything in before I apply this summer. How bad does it look if I start doing volunteering practically a semester before I apply?

I have some previous shadowing experience and research, but as for actual hospital volunteering, I just started.

 

[thestrokes14]

Rhodes > Fulbright >Goldwater. Haven't actually seen anyone with a Goldwater... maybe I'd be very impressed if I did.

Intel Science Prize seems impressive until you realize that there are so many layers and that some are just a couple grand but still, IMO, it is one of the few HS things that absolutely should be added to the experience section.

Interesting. I always wondered how much attention the Amgen Scholarship got. Seems like most people haven't heard of it.

 

[Schizotypy]

I am already accepted MD. I know schools need financial information from both parents; what do I do if I have a bad relationship with one (living) parent and he/she is unreachable or will not supply it?

http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1213/pdf/PdfFafsa12-13.pdf
The PDF version of the FAFSA above has some instructions on page 9 about this situation. I think that it would probably be school-specific, but if your other parent is remarried you might be able to submit only information about that parent and step-parent (I have a similar situation going on). I would contact school financial aid offices with this question.

 

[GS Mikami]

Hey LizzyM,

Do you think that this application cycle has seen an increase in the number of highly qualified applicants?

I know several people, both in SDN and real life, with great stats and ECs having a rough time landing acceptances.

 

[Etorphine]

http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1213/pdf/PdfFafsa12-13.pdf
The PDF version of the FAFSA above has some instructions on page 9 about this situation. I think that it would probably be school-specific, but if your other parent is remarried you might be able to submit only information about that parent and step-parent (I have a similar situation going on). I would contact school financial aid offices with this question.

thank you!!!!

 

[American Shero]

Do you get many applicants with Peace Corps service? How do you, personally, view this?

 

[nickelbackfan]

Dear LizzyM,
First off, thank you so much for doing this! You are truly this best!

I have two questions for you

1- Over the past summer, I worked in a neuro-oncology lab. During this 3 month experience, I was able to attend tumor board meetings, symposiums, shadow a physican, witness brain surgery. These were things I was fourtunate to experience other than participating in regular lab activities. My question to you is how can I categorigize this experience? It seems to me that this is a multi dimesional thing packed into one. It is something I really would like to talk about in my interviews because it got me hooked to medicine.

2- I plan to graduate from a big ten public state school with a degree in biomedical engineering. Without getting into "what are my chances", will the fact that I come from a undergraduate school that does not have very competitive admission standards have a negative effect (I'm using the right word! ) if I want to apply to a top 25 school, such as the ivys or University of Chicago, granted I have a lizzyM score of 70+?

Thanks and happy holidays!

 

[LizzyM]

I have a good GPA and MCAT score, but I realized that I am extremely weak in the EC area, thus making me very one dimensional. I started to pile on activities back in novemeber, and I'm trying to cram everything in before I apply this summer. How bad does it look if I start doing volunteering practically a semester before I apply?

I have some previous shadowing experience and research, but as for actual hospital volunteering, I just started.

Well, it is better than starting in May -- and yes, I have seen that.

Have you done anything in the past 3 yrs to serve your community, particularly those who are in greatest need (hungry, poor, illiterate, homeless, etc).

 

[LizzyM]

Do you get many applicants with Peace Corps service? How do you, personally, view this?

No. Love 'em.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey LizzyM,

Do you think that this application cycle has seen an increase in the number of highly qualified applicants?

I know several people, both in SDN and real life, with great stats and ECs having a rough time landing acceptances.

It is only Jan 1. Some schools haven't even made any offers yet. If they haven't been offered anything by June 1, that's another story.

 

[LizzyM]

Interesting. I always wondered how much attention the Amgen Scholarship got. Seems like most people haven't heard of it.

Haven't heard of it.

 

[LizzyM]

Dear LizzyM,
First off, thank you so much for doing this! You are truly this best!

I have two questions for you

1- Over the past summer, I worked in a neuro-oncology lab. During this 3 month experience, I was able to attend tumor board meetings, symposiums, shadow a physican, witness brain surgery. These were things I was fourtunate to experience other than participating in regular lab activities. My question to you is how can I categorigize this experience? It seems to me that this is a multi dimesional thing packed into one. It is something I really would like to talk about in my interviews because it got me hooked to medicine.

Split your summer experience into two slots. Label one as "research" and describe what you did in the lab and the hours per week that you devoted to the research. Create a second item called "other" and describe your other summer activities at the medical center. sounds like an excellent experience and one you might want to tag as one of the three most important.

2- I plan to graduate from a big ten public state school with a degree in biomedical engineering. Without getting into "what are my chances", will the fact that I come from a undergraduate school that does not have very competitive admission standards have a negative effect (I'm using the right word! ) if I want to apply to a top 25 school, such as the ivys or University of Chicago, granted I have a lizzyM score of 70+?

Thanks and happy holidays!

I won't lie; applying from Yale or Harvard is considered different than applying from UMass or UConn... or a similar state school. A LizzyM score of 70 is barely enough for a top 25 schools. The thing that may tip the balance would be if you could make a case for being particularly interested in research/clinical work at a particular school because of its reputation in that area and can say that you want to build on the skills you learned in your summer experience.

 

[kdn508]

Ok here is a breakdown of my BCPM courses.
Fall '08
Gen CHEM: C-
Organismal Bio: B
Spring '09
Pre-Cal: B
Spring '10
Statistics: A

Spring '11
Gen CHEM II: B
Intro to Cell : A
Calculus : A
Fall '11
Genetics: A-
Orgo chem: B+

Should I retake that gen chem I course? I feel like its tanking my gpa =(
Note: the reason why theres a gap in time is because I decided to explore sociology as a major.

 

[Classof2013PreM]

First off, thanks so much for answering all of these questions!
I am applying to medical school this upcoming summer, and I have a question about whether being an "academic superstar" is enough to catch the attention of top medical schools even if the EC's are only average.

I go to a HYPSM school with a decent (~3.75) gpa and over 40 MCAT, but my EC's only cover the basics (some tutoring, non clinical volunteering, shadowing, and very little clinical experience unfortunately)

Is my academic record enough to get an interview invite, or do adcoms at top schools prefer lower stats but a greater focus on EC's?

 

[LizzyM]

Ok here is a breakdown of my BCPM courses.
Fall '08
Gen CHEM: C-
Organismal Bio: B
Spring '09
Pre-Cal: B
Spring '10
Statistics: A

Spring '11
Gen CHEM II: B
Intro to Cell : A
Calculus : A
Fall '11
Genetics: A-
Orgo chem: B+

Should I retake that gen chem I course? I feel like its tanking my gpa =(
Note: the reason why theres a gap in time is because I decided to explore sociology as a major.

Better to spend your time & money taking Biochemistry. I'd rather see a A in biochem than an A in a retake of Chem I for an A. If, on the other hand, you will apply DO, then retaking Chem I is a good strategy. If your gpa is < 3.3, DO might be a good choice.

 

[LizzyM]

First off, thanks so much for answering all of these questions!
I am applying to medical school this upcoming summer, and I have a question about whether being an "academic superstar" is enough to catch the attention of top medical schools even if the EC's are only average.

I go to a HYPSM school with a decent (~3.75) gpa and over 40 MCAT, but my EC's only cover the basics (some tutoring, non clinical volunteering, shadowing, and very little clinical experience unfortunately)

Is my academic record enough to get an interview invite, or do adcoms at top schools prefer lower stats but a greater focus on EC's?

There are schools that will snub you for your lack of ECs and there are those that get a tingle when they see a 3.75/40. Ask around & find out which schools are known as "grade ******" and "MCAT ******" and put your emphasis on those schools. Don't ask me to ID those schools for you because I really don't know (aside from WashU in St. Louis).

 

[Long Way to Go]

Ok here is a breakdown of my BCPM courses.
Fall '08
Gen CHEM: C-
Organismal Bio: B
Spring '09
Pre-Cal: B
Spring '10
Statistics: A

Spring '11
Gen CHEM II: B
Intro to Cell : A
Calculus : A
Fall '11
Genetics: A-
Orgo chem: B+

Should I retake that gen chem I course? I feel like its tanking my gpa =(
Note: the reason why theres a gap in time is because I decided to explore sociology as a major.

I hate to contradict LizzyM (but my stupidity abounds). My understanding was that a flat C was considered the minimal acceptable grade for a prereq at many schools, and so kdn508 would have to retake Chem I. Or could biochemistry substitute for it?

 

[LizzyM]

I hate to contradict LizzyM (but my stupidity abounds). My understanding was that a flat C was considered the minimal acceptable grade for a prereq at many schools, and so kdn508 would have to retake Chem I. Or could biochemistry substitute for it?

As far as I know my school doesn't have that rule but I really don't know what other schools do.

 

[muhali3]

There are schools that will snub you for your lack of ECs and there are those that get a tingle when they see a 3.75/40. Ask around & find out which schools are known as "grade ******" and "MCAT ******" and put your emphasis on those schools. Don't ask me to ID those schools for you because I really don't know (aside from WashU in St. Louis).

haha.

yeah. you might add yale, duke, and upenn to that list. with their 3.85/37 medians.

 

[mohad]

Well, it is better than starting in May -- and yes, I have seen that.

Have you done anything in the past 3 yrs to serve your community, particularly those who are in greatest need (hungry, poor, illiterate, homeless, etc).

Honestly, I've done very little before my junior year. I did do a bit of tutoring (very informal) but that was about it. As far as volunteering is concerned, I pretty much had next to nothing. I've just been procrastinating and I had the incorrect notion that good numbers could make up for poor ECs. During this past semester though, I have a few hours of working at charity events and food banks and helping other events, but it was set up through a premed club. I wasn't particularly committed to staying with one sort of organization and helping them out.

I really regret not doing volunteering earlier and procrastinating on community service, but at this point, I'm just going to apply and see what happens. My shadowing doesn't make up for volunteering, but I am glad I got at least some exposure in so I know what I'm getting into. I know I'm at a severe disadvantage when compared to applicants that have been committed to community service with certain organizations for long periods of time, but do my chances not look so well despite a LizzyM score of 75+?

 

[muhali3]

^I'm not LizzyM, but as long as you can answer the question "Why medicine?" while backing your answer up with relevant experiences, you should be ok.

 

[kdn508]

Better to spend your time & money taking Biochemistry. I'd rather see a A in biochem than an A in a retake of Chem I for an A. If, on the other hand, you will apply DO, then retaking Chem I is a good strategy. If your gpa is < 3.3, DO might be a good choice.

For my senior year i'd have to take physics, anatomy& physiology and a bio elective. If i were to add in bio chem do you think it would look bad if i didn't take the bio chem lab?

 

[DeterminedDoc]

Well gee look at all this great advice, I have a question too:

I know this guy who failed three classes last semester and had a 2.7 GPA BEFORE. What in the bloody hell does this stupid indian guy need to do in order to get into med school still? Is it even possible or is it pointless? Is there any chance of MD schools still?

I mean I know that your an adcom and therefore more cyborg than human, but would I even be looked at by humans or would my app just go into the shredder?

I know that there is advice in my past threads, but what is your opinion? I'm sure even cyborgs are programmed to have at least one or two.

 

[ksun91]

How are athletics seen at the college level? I have been swimming since I was 10 and was recruited to several D1 schools. However I turned them to go to a school that had the program I wanted. The school I went to did have a D1 swim team, but was cut a few years before I got there and is now a club team. However, the team is run well and last year won the club swimming national title. I was the 4th highest point scorer for the team but the people above me graduated last year.

 

[Cambino]

Hypothetical:
A 3.3 GPA + a 41 MCAT = 74 LizzyM score.
Is it really a 74, or should you knock off a few points because of the shabby GPA?

 

[ttothemac]

So on the topic of research, how do you view an honors thesis, given I would begin it the summer I apply?

 

[futuredocDB]

I took Chem 1 and 2, Calc 1, and Statistics at a local community college while in high school and got A's. Now I'm at a big public school and am getting straight A's too. Will adcoms at ivy league and top 25 medical schools look down on me taking these classes at community college? I don't plan on retaking them again at my university.

Also, I have some experience in medical research and while I plan on continuing that, I'll be doing products research at a big Fortune 500 company this summer. Will this look bad to adcoms at top schools?

 

[maaza1]

I have no idea. Does it matter whether or not you would be admitted if you can't get an F1 visa? How would you finance your medical education?

To go into more detail. I'm on the path to becoming legal (again). I hope to get my green card before ever applying to med school. I was curious whether the excessive number of CC credits even with a good GPA and MCA Twould prevent me from attending a decent medical school.

 

[libraryismyhome]

Hello,

I am writing application essays now and one is about the best leader and another is about who helped me the most in my life. For the best leader, I wrote about my father and was able to provide a good answer. But for the second one, though I am able to provide a good answer, I am concerned about writing about my parents in two questions. I think this way cause I read that writing about one's sick family members is the worst cliche, because everyone expresses compassion to family members. My concern isn't valid. correct?

 

[gettheleadout]

Interesting. I always wondered how much attention the Amgen Scholarship got. Seems like most people haven't heard of it.

I would guess this is because it's a summer research scholarship as opposed to a graduate or undergraduate funding scholarship like the others LizzyM mentioned.

 

[tvelocity514]

Hi LizzyM,
I transferred from a private college my first year to a public university for their honors college my second year. My first year college contained a-'s but when I transferred to the university my gpa transferred over with those grades as a's which increased my freshman gpa a great bit. How do you look on a-'s from my first year college? Do you take those into consideration or do you look at the gpa my university gave me with the a's on my transcripts and no a-'s. Thanks!

 

[Dbate]

This is kind of long, so if you don't want to read the whole thing, then go to the TL;DR section.

I have a question about service to the community (aka community service).

About community service: I don't have any because I wasn't very interested in serving the community.

But I am the Director of the Economic Development Center at my school and I will have been involved in it for three years by the time I apply.

The center partners with community organisations to spur economic development in the New Haven. For example one semester we partnered with the START community bank to bring a franchise to the area.

This semester I am leading a project where we partner with the Community Action Agency of New Haven to develop strategies to educate community members about tax credits for low income individuals and we are researching statistics on the number of individuals in the new Haven area eligible for the tax credits.

This is going to take up a considerable amount of time because it involves direct interaction with the CEO of the organization on my part.


Can this count as community service?


TL;DR

Can activities related to bettering the community count as community service? Even if they are not direct volunteering at community organizations?

 

[bltng]

Hi Lizzy,

I took an EMT course (lecture + training on field) and also a CNA class this past year. Can I use the hours I spent with patients as part of clinical? I've also got my EMT license but have trouble finding a volunteer position/part-time paid position~ would adcoms look down this?

I started the pre-med route pretty late (having realized it after getting my B.A.,) ~ and was wondering, what typical questions would I get from adcoms in regards to this? If so, just how much 'commitment' do I need to have (via clinical and non-clinical ECs) for adcoms to dismiss my late start?

And last of all ~ I've taken 'Intro to Stats' and got an A, then 'Psych stats' and got a B, and lastly took 'Biostats' and got an A'. These classes are under their respective departments (Stats, Psych and Biostats) ~ do you recommend labeling the latter 2 as BCPM?

Thank you so much, Lizzy!

And have a happy new year!!

 

[LizzyM]

For my senior year i'd have to take physics, anatomy& physiology and a bio elective. If i were to add in bio chem do you think it would look bad if i didn't take the bio chem lab?

I wouldn't know whether your school has or doesn't have a biochem lab so it wouldn't matter to me.

 

[LizzyM]

How are athletics seen at the college level? I have been swimming since I was 10 and was recruited to several D1 schools. However I turned them to go to a school that had the program I wanted. The school I went to did have a D1 swim team, but was cut a few years before I got there and is now a club team. However, the team is run well and last year won the club swimming national title. I was the 4th highest point scorer for the team but the people above me graduated last year.

Some of us think athletic pursuits are great! Swimming is great because it can be a life-long activity whether competitively or not.

 

[LizzyM]

Hypothetical:
A 3.3 GPA + a 41 MCAT = 74 LizzyM score.
Is it really a 74, or should you knock off a few points because of the shabby GPA?

I won't answer hypotheticals. If those are your stats, we'll talk.

 

[LizzyM]

So on the topic of research, how do you view an honors thesis, given I would begin it the summer I apply?

If you could figure out a way to work it into your application it could be a help but you would be quizzed about it at your interview so you'd need to be sure to have followed through.

 

[LizzyM]

I took Chem 1 and 2, Calc 1, and Statistics at a local community college while in high school and got A's. Now I'm at a big public school and am getting straight A's too. Will adcoms at ivy league and top 25 medical schools look down on me taking these classes at community college? I don't plan on retaking them again at my university.

Also, I have some experience in medical research and while I plan on continuing that, I'll be doing products research at a big Fortune 500 company this summer. Will this look bad to adcoms at top schools?

No. No.

 

[LizzyM]

To go into more detail. I'm on the path to becoming legal (again). I hope to get my green card before ever applying to med school. I was curious whether the excessive number of CC credits even with a good GPA and MCA Twould prevent me from attending a decent medical school.

I don't think so. You could always explain in your application and/or hope that your pre-med advisor will describe the situation in a letter of recommendation.