Ask me (almost) anything

[LizzyM]

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What is the most outrageous non-medical related EC you have read before? Like something that totally blew you away?

Go to entry #4 on this thread. 🙄

 

[stormy91]

Hi Lizzy M,

I am having a hard time declaring a major. What is the most impressive major you came across?

How do you feel about non science majors?

 

[k2on3hru]

Hey Lizzy,

1) Whats the best way to make a lasting impression with your application? What sticks out when you look over an application? and the interview? (the good things! haha)

2) When I was reading through some of the posts I read that being in the military adds +5 to the LizzyM score...are there other things that increase it?

Thank you!

 

[winonarider]

I'm sorry, I am trying to get into a top-tier research school and just wanted your honest opinion on where my research experience ranked in applicants you've seen in the past...

"I have 3 first author publications with a top 10 medical university in two high impact surgical journals, 3 full plenary session oral presentations at national meetings and 2 mini oral presentations at regional meetings. Additionally, I am on the advisory committee of a sponsored multi-institutional (20+) prospective randomized trial that I wrote the protocol for. I am also working on a few retrospective studies."

I know the process is super competitive especially at programs such as yours, so I value your opinion.

 

[dartmed]

L

 

[Supisak]

edit

 

[LizzyM]

what mcat score would you expect a 3.8 from university of minnesota or university of wisconsin-madison..trying to add some anonymity...would you expect for a student to have a shot at a top tier school? Both of these schools have tough science programs...

37

 

[Narmerguy]

I'm sorry, I am trying to get into a top-tier research school and just wanted your honest opinion on where my research experience ranked in applicants you've seen in the past...

"I have 3 first author publications with a top 10 medical university in two high impact surgical journals, 3 full plenary session oral presentations at national meetings and 2 mini oral presentations at regional meetings. Additionally, I am on the advisory committee of a sponsored multi-institutional (20+) prospective randomized trial that I wrote the protocol for. I am also working on a few retrospective studies."

I know the process is super competitive especially at programs such as yours, so I value your opinion.

Oh you're back again.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm sorry, I am trying to get into a top-tier research school and just wanted your honest opinion on where my research experience ranked in applicants you've seen in the past...

"I have 3 first author publications with a top 10 medical university in two high impact surgical journals, 3 full plenary session oral presentations at national meetings and 2 mini oral presentations at regional meetings. Additionally, I am on the advisory committee of a sponsored multi-institutional (20+) prospective randomized trial that I wrote the protocol for. I am also working on a few retrospective studies."

I know the process is super competitive especially at programs such as yours, so I value your opinion.

If you don't know the answer to your own question, you don't have the sense God gave a billy goat.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey Lizzy,

1) Whats the best way to make a lasting impression with your application? What sticks out when you look over an application? and the interview? (the good things! haha)

I've looked at >500 applications this year and at the moment, I can't think of a single thing.

2) When I was reading through some of the posts I read that being in the military adds +5 to the LizzyM score...are there other things that increase it?

Thank you!

Being a beauty queen at the national level. Olympic medal. Professional athlete.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy M,

I am having a hard time declaring a major. What is the most impressive major you came across?

Can't think of any and frankly, the best for you is not the most impressive I've ever seen but what will interest you enough that you will do exceptionally well.

How do you feel about non science majors?

They make fine MD students.

 

[vayntraubinator]

If you don't know the answer to your own question, you don't have the sense God gave a billy goat.

 

[mud91]

How do you look at students who are first generation immigrants and come from financially disadvantaged families but are not URM? Also, how bad does it look to have lower GPA due to the fact that English is not the native language, if this reason was mentioned in the application?

Thanks for your answer beforehand!🙂

 

[camshark]

Is this a good upward trend? Fresh 2.8, soph 3.0, junior 3.7, senior 4.0? My junior and senior were pretty much all upper level sciences...I'm not necessarily looking at top tiered school.

 

[ActiveSite]

What impact, if any, do post-interview thank you letters have? More specifically, do you recall a time when a letter you received impacted the manner in which you presented an applicant to the rest of the adcom members?

 

[LizzyM]

Is this a good upward trend? Fresh 2.8, soph 3.0, junior 3.7, senior 4.0? My junior and senior were pretty much all upper level sciences...I'm not necessarily looking at top tiered school.

It is an upward trend but averages out to about 3.375 which is not so good. If I bothered to look, I'd look at performance in the pre-reqs and I'd look at the MCAT. If the MCAT is excellent (top 90th percentile), you might get some traction.

 

[LizzyM]

What impact, if any, do post-interview thank you letters have?

almost none.

More specifically, do you recall a time when a letter you received impacted the manner in which you presented an applicant to the rest of the adcom members?

No

 

[LizzyM]

How do you look at students who are first generation immigrants and come from financially disadvantaged families but are not URM?

positively

Also, how bad does it look to have lower GPA due to the fact that English is not the native language, if this reason was mentioned in the application?

It is a weakness. How bad it is depends on the applicant's ability to communicate clearly in written and spoken English.

 

[rorogena88]

I have a good cGPA (3.7)and a Low Science GPA (by low I mean 3.4)
I am shooting for a high MCAT

how will the science GPA be looked at? (I had a tough year and I will explain that on my application)

I mean if you were looking at my app, would you give it a chance and take a look at the full app or would it be automatically screened out due to the 3.4 sGPA

 

[k2on3hru]

Hey Lizzy,

"I've looked at >500 applications this year and at the moment, I can't think of a single thing [that sticks out]" This is the part that confuses me. How could an applicant stick out when most of them will probably end up having the same ECs(Volunteer at a hospital, research, tutoring, shadowing, teaching, and non clinical volunteering.) and probably very high numbers. What separates one applicant who has done these things from another? and please feel free to include other ECs! I will take as much help as I can get to improve my application.

Thanks

 

[lolcat]

Hey Lizzy! Thanks for doing this.

I was just wondering about how it would look if I did research not related to medicine? I was thinking about doing research in physics because I have an interesting topic in mind and I also have established a good relationship with my physics teacher. Thanks!

 

[poppie910]

I have a good cGPA (3.7)and a Low Science GPA (by low I mean 3.4)
I am shooting for a high MCAT

how will the science GPA be looked at? (I had a tough year and I will explain that on my application)

I mean if you were looking at my app, would you give it a chance and take a look at the full app or would it be automatically screened out due to the 3.4 sGPA

I don't know much about alot, but come on man. Do a search. That's a pretty competitive sgpa as long as your EC's, clinical experience are good. I feel bad for Lizzy, because she's answering the same questions (albeit, worded a little different) over and over again.

 

[Mazdave]

What would you say (either as an interviewer or a committee member) are the biggest differences between the candidates that are chosen for outright acceptances and those who are waitlisted?

Common SDN wisdom seems to say that those who are waitlisted were found be their interviewers to have good qualifications and to be potentially a good fit for the school, but were only average interviewees or lacked a "wow factor".

 

[rorogena88]

I don't know much about alot, but come on man. Do a search. That's a pretty competitive sgpa as long as your EC's, clinical experience are good. I feel bad for Lizzy, because she's answering the same questions (albeit, worded a little different) over and over again.

interesting you say that because I was told it's pretty low and that is why I was asking if low sGPA will raise a red flag and how they look at it (assuming everything else is good)

 

[Neurosis]

Okay, it's taken me a long time to gather my courage to ask this question but here goes:

I understand the personal statement/interviews exist mainly to garner the reason for applicants' reason to do medicine. But what if my reason is really personal and somewhat controversial? Should I just fabricate a reason for medicine or should I remain truthful and hope for the best?

 

[cocoapelli]

First of all - THANK YOU!!😍
I have a question that is more a 'just out of curiosity' kind of thing, but...

Do you have general advice for broaching political involvement/activism? Hypothetically, say I was pretty involved in protests that were triggered by certain legislation. I wouldn't put such a thing on my activities list, but should I avoid bringing such a thing up during an interview if it was a logical answer to a question?
On the other hand, I am involved with an organization that provides a service to prisoners (nothing illegal or unethical), and I would like to include this on activities. Talking about it though would reveal my very strong opinions on prison systems etc.

Would you recommend I hide nothing and be prepared to defend myself, or is it simply bad taste to discuss politics that aren't directly related to public health?

 

[poppie910]

interesting you say that because I was told it's pretty low and that is why I was asking if low sGPA will raise a red flag and how they look at it (assuming everything else is good)

Im not even a pre med yet, im merely a freshman (albeit returning), but I have read enough on here to know that your numbers are acceptable to many med schools. Maybe not harvard or Stanford (like my trans-continental reference of top tier schools?), but you have a very legitimate chance of being accepted.

Disclaimer: once again, I really don't know **** from the toilet, but im pretty sure I have a valid point here.

Edit: of course my hypothesis is based off of the premise that you have very good EC's.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Follow up LizzyM:

How do schools "pre-screen"? Do they just not see applications with stats below the cutoff, or is it done manually? How does post-bacc/grad work factor in to pre-screening?

Thanks again!

 

[Yraqi]

They are not considered "under-represented in medicine".

May I ask why? Most medical schools have an average of 0-1 students of middle Eastern heritage per class, which is much less the numer of students from other racial/ethnic groups.

 

[TriagePreMed]

May I ask why? Most medical schools have an average of 0-1 students of middle Eastern heritage per class, which is much less the numer of students from other racial/ethnic groups.

Do you know what UNDER-represented means? Arab-Americans only make up 0.5% of the population. If you have 1 in every school (assuming 200 seats), you're already being represented fairly.

 

[drziggy]

May I ask why? Most medical schools have an average of 0-1 students of middle Eastern heritage per class, which is much less the numer of students from other racial/ethnic groups.

Remember, "underrepresented" compares the number of medical students to the proportion of the US population made up by a given race. I'd say you're underestimating the number of medical students with Middle Eastern heritage; I'm confident that middle eastern students are, if anything, over represented in medical school as compared to the US population. Native Americans, Hispanics, and Blacks, however, are severely underrepresented, and are typically what adcoms consider URMs.

 

[TriagePreMed]

LizzyM - If an applicant finished his undergraduate degree, but he was unable to find steady job for 2 years (horrible economy), should this applicant not mention anything about this time period or write something down about how he had to stay afloat by washing dishes, working construction, and the occasional short-term "temp" employee? If yes, where (and how long) should it be discussed?

 

[augeremt]

LizzyM,

It seems like you stated that weaknesses shouldn't be addressed in the application because they are so common among applicants, but shouldn't a very spotty undergrad GPA that was somewhat fixed a few years later by an almost-perfect post-bacc be addressed since it's the elephant in the room? Should I not mention it in the app at all and explain myself in interviews if it comes up? If addressed, should that be in the personal statement or elsewhere? I have no good explanation for my bad grades except I wasn't mature enough to take school seriously and didn't consider my future at the time, choosing to live in the moment instead. No extenuating circumstances or anything. So addressing it would be limited to that comment.

Thanks in advance!

 

[muffins]

I was wondering what is the policy of putting an activity on your AMCAS that you will be doing but does not begin until after you turn in your application? For example, an activity that starts in late July but you want to turn in your AMCAS by June.

Thanks for taking your time doing this again!

 

[dartmed]

x

 

[LizzyM]

I have a good cGPA (3.7)and a Low Science GPA (by low I mean 3.4)
I am shooting for a high MCAT

how will the science GPA be looked at? (I had a tough year and I will explain that on my application)

I mean if you were looking at my app, would you give it a chance and take a look at the full app or would it be automatically screened out due to the 3.4 sGPA

That's not a good science gpa. I would look at the listing of courses and see if most of the grades are B+ with a few higher grades or some other blend.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey Lizzy,

"I've looked at >500 applications this year and at the moment, I can't think of a single thing [that sticks out]" This is the part that confuses me. How could an applicant stick out when most of them will probably end up having the same ECs(Volunteer at a hospital, research, tutoring, shadowing, teaching, and non clinical volunteering.) and probably very high numbers. What separates one applicant who has done these things from another? and please feel free to include other ECs! I will take as much help as I can get to improve my application.

Thanks

Do what you love. Your passion will shine through.

 

[LizzyM]

Hey Lizzy! Thanks for doing this.

I was just wondering about how it would look if I did research not related to medicine? I was thinking about doing research in physics because I have an interesting topic in mind and I also have established a good relationship with my physics teacher. Thanks!

Cool. Be able to describe it to a non-specialist in a minute or two because you will be asked to do so during your interviews. With research, the point is to use the scientific method to develop new knowledge. The analytical skills you use should be transferrable.

 

[LizzyM]

What would you say (either as an interviewer or a committee member) are the biggest differences between the candidates that are chosen for outright acceptances and those who are waitlisted?

Common SDN wisdom seems to say that those who are waitlisted were found be their interviewers to have good qualifications and to be potentially a good fit for the school, but were only average interviewees or lacked a "wow factor".

That sums it up.

 

[LizzyM]

Okay, it's taken me a long time to gather my courage to ask this question but here goes:

I understand the personal statement/interviews exist mainly to garner the reason for applicants' reason to do medicine. But what if my reason is really personal and somewhat controversial? Should I just fabricate a reason for medicine or should I remain truthful and hope for the best?

Be truthful. Being passionate about a subject is always better and it is easier to be passionate when you are telling the truth than when you are telling a made-up story. If you don't want to reveal personal details about your life or the lives of your loved ones, get some experience as a volunteer or an employee working with people who have the same condition. Then, in your essays you can say that a you developed an interest in x because you had a personal experience with the condition within your family and felt drawn toward helping others who were experiencing the same thing.

 

[LizzyM]

First of all - THANK YOU!!😍
I have a question that is more a 'just out of curiosity' kind of thing, but...

Do you have general advice for broaching political involvement/activism? Hypothetically, say I was pretty involved in protests that were triggered by certain legislation. I wouldn't put such a thing on my activities list, but should I avoid bringing such a thing up during an interview if it was a logical answer to a question?

You could end up with an application reviewer or interviewer who disagrees with your politics. That said, we tend to be open minded and I have recommeneded for interview applicants whose political actvities are contrary to my political leanings. As long as you are willing to stick by your convictions and not flip-flop, you'll be fine.

On the other hand, I am involved with an organization that provides a service to prisoners (nothing illegal or unethical), and I would like to include this on activities. Talking about it though would reveal my very strong opinions on prison systems etc.

Would you recommend I hide nothing and be prepared to defend myself, or is it simply bad taste to discuss politics that aren't directly related to public health?

There are many public health issues in prison including issues around communicable diseases and mental health. I'd be very interested in talking with an applicant who felt strongly about the civil rights of prisoners.

 

[LizzyM]

Follow up LizzyM:

How do schools "pre-screen"? Do they just not see applications with stats below the cutoff, or is it done manually? How does post-bacc/grad work factor in to pre-screening?

Thanks again!

I don't know how that works. I'm sure every school is different. My school feeds me applications after the screening. Those that are "screened out" do get a look from a high ranking person in the admissions office and if the application is unusual and worthy of consideration despite numbers that would usually screen it out, the applicant is invited for interview.

 

[LizzyM]

May I ask why? Most medical schools have an average of 0-1 students of middle Eastern heritage per class, which is much less the numer of students from other racial/ethnic groups.

There are 3.5 million Arab-Americans in the United States according to The Arab American Institute. The population of the US is about 310 million. So, Arab-Americans make up <1.2% of the US population. Depending on a state's Arab population and the state's preferrence for in-state applicants, you may find some schools that have few Arab-American students and some schools that have far more than 1-2%. U Michigan has a group called Medical Students of Middle-Eastern Descent and I expect that other schools in geographic areas with a concentration of Arab-Americans will have similar groups.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM - If an applicant finished his undergraduate degree, but he was unable to find steady job for 2 years (horrible economy), should this applicant not mention anything about this time period or write something down about how he had to stay afloat by washing dishes, working construction, and the occasional short-term "temp" employee? If yes, where (and how long) should it be discussed?

This certainly should go in the "experience" section to account for your time. Some schools will ask on the supplemental for how you've spent time periods of more than the length of a summer vacation away from educational pursuits.

All work experience is valuable. Your medical practice is likely to include people of many walks of life and having had the experience of blue collar employment and unemployment and underemployment gives you a beneficial experience that may help you related to your patients.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,

It seems like you stated that weaknesses shouldn't be addressed in the application because they are so common among applicants, but shouldn't a very spotty undergrad GPA that was somewhat fixed a few years later by an almost-perfect post-bacc be addressed since it's the elephant in the room? Should I not mention it in the app at all and explain myself in interviews if it comes up? If addressed, should that be in the personal statement or elsewhere? I have no good explanation for my bad grades except I wasn't mature enough to take school seriously and didn't consider my future at the time, choosing to live in the moment instead. No extenuating circumstances or anything. So addressing it would be limited to that comment.

Thanks in advance!

A small blemish is what I call a zit. Awhile back I got a PM from an applicant who had a college gpa <3.0 and post bac of 4.0 and MCAT >38. Here's what I wrote in response:

Your situation is not a zit, it is a scar that runs from your earlobe to your chin. The adcom will be begging to know what happened and how you survived.

The story is not so much how you got slashed but how you turned things around and came back against overwhelming odds and triumphed. It could be a great story and I hope you'll write it.

Congrats on the great performance on the MCAT and in the post-bac. Some post-bac schools will send great committee letters that will tell your story in a very sympathetic way (based on your interview with your advisor).

I recently got a nice thank you note from the applicant to tell me of great success this cycle. 👍

 

[LizzyM]

I was wondering what is the policy of putting an activity on your AMCAS that you will be doing but does not begin until after you turn in your application? For example, an activity that starts in late July but you want to turn in your AMCAS by June.

Thanks for taking your time doing this again!

That is not allowed. It is also dangerous because if things change and you aren't able to follow through with the activity (which may be through no fault of your own and unforeseeable) it will be an embarrassment at interview time when you are asked about the activity. Either leave it off and provide an update letter in August or September, add it to your supplementals, or submit in late July.

 

[eotp88]

Hi LizzyM - thanks so much for doing this.

I went back to college after 2 years of graduating with an Acconting degree, and received a Biology degree. My cgpa was raised to a 3.55, with a 3.85 sgpa (1 C+ in my first pre-req, Chem1).

My question is, how do adcoms view the first degree (Accounting) if it had a sprinkle of C's, as well as numerous withdrawals, all due to either a shift in interest (withdrew from science classes to complete my accounting degree my last semester in college) or a family death? It isn't the overall gpa that worries me, but the specific contents.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

LizzyM

I want to know how a school decides to "un-reject" a student after 4 months? I was rejected in Aug by two schools, and in Dec was "un-rejected"... At one school I was interviewed and accepted the same day (I live nearby)...

Any thoughts?

 

[DocKaladin]

I'm a non-trad that will have been a year out of school before applying and am married. In terms of interviews, I feel comfortable answering any question about whether my focus would be affected by family or anything like that, but my wife is also applying at the same time as me. I'm uncertain how to answer if asked point-blank in an interview whether her acceptance/denial would affect my acceptance decision. I don't plan to bring it up but also don't want to lie, and her applying could certainly arise in the course of conversation.

 

[Josh138]

Hi Liz,

Thank you so much for doing this. I have learned a lot from reading your responses and I just had a few questions of my own if you wouldn't mind answering:

1) For competitive medical schools (Top 15's) how important is it that you take classes beyond the normal prereqs? For example, taking classes such as genetics, physiology, biochem, etc.

2) Does the committee ever factor in how difficult a semester was by looking at the classes taken? For example, maxing credits in heavy sciences in a semester compared to maxing credits in psych classes which are assumed by college students to be a lot easier.

3) I see that you really stressed the importance of research. How important is it to do research over the summer if I've only been doing research in school ever since I was a freshman? Does it also matter that I've only stuck to one lab and that I've never achieved a breakthrough in lab?

4) Does the committee expect students to do clinical volunteering during the school year? I have only clinically volunteered during the summers because I don't think I can handle it on top of the classes I take and my other e/c's (ex: involvement in church, tutor in bio, research)