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Is 1 year of research not good enough for a top tier research focused school? I really enjoy research but I transferred from community college where research opportunities are almost non-existent. I got into research my first couple weeks at my University post-transfer.

Also, while in community college I took classes within 3 different schools at a time because of scarcity of classes and registration appointments. Therefore even though I took 18+ units every semester of college, they were divided amongst 2-3 schools. Will this look like I barely did any coursework because I will not have more than 12 units shown per semester in any college transcript?

THANKS!! =)
 
Is 1 year of research not good enough for a top tier research focused school? I really enjoy research but I transferred from community college where research opportunities are almost non-existent. I got into research my first couple weeks at my University post-transfer.

Yes. Some applicants get in with no research at all.

Also, while in community college I took classes within 3 different schools at a time because of scarcity of classes and registration appointments. Therefore even though I took 18+ units every semester of college, they were divided amongst 2-3 schools. Will this look like I barely did any coursework because I will not have more than 12 units shown per semester in any college transcript?

THANKS!! =)

Part of the beauty of the AMCAS application is that all of your transcripts are combined and a useful table is contructed from the data. It shows the number of credits taken by academic year (roughly the first 30 semester hours are labeled "freshman", the next ~30 sophomore, and so forth regardless of where the classes were taken. Anything over ~90 goes into senior year so it is possible to rack up 60 credits if you end up taking 5 years to earn a degree. Anything after college graduation goes on a line labeled post-bac and graduate credits are displayed separately. Along with the total number of credits, the table shows number of BCPM credits in each academic year, number of AO (all other) credits and the gpa for each of those subsets. There is also a total undergrad BCPM gpa and credits, AO gpa and credits and grand total gpa and credits.
 
Hi LizzyM!

Is it appropriate to list high school activities on applications if they continued into college? For example, I have done a research internship with a prestigious hospital for three summers.. two of which were in high school and one while in college. I know listing high school activities is frowned upon, but would this be an exception?

Thanks for your help 🙂
 
Hi LizzyM!

Is it appropriate to list high school activities on applications if they continued into college? For example, I have done a research internship with a prestigious hospital for three summers.. two of which were in high school and one while in college. I know listing high school activities is frowned upon, but would this be an exception?

Thanks for your help 🙂

Yes, yes.
 
Being a leader of a school club or the founder of a honor society 😕 is ok. It shows you aren't a loner.

I grab a minute here & there to hang with folks here. Having an email alert to new messages and wifi is a huge help.

I don't really understand this assumption. I was elected president of a school club, and I also have a rep for being a loner. What's wrong with being a loner and why do some assume that it would negatively impact your ability to practice medicine? Also, would you suggest that I perk up at interviews and pretend to be an out-going socialite since a lot of people tend to have reservations about introverts?
 
I don't really understand this assumption. I was elected president of a school club, and I also have a rep for being a loner. What's wrong with being a loner and why do some assume that it would negatively impact your ability to practice medicine? Also, would you suggest that I perk up at interviews and pretend to be an out-going socialite since a lot of people tend to have reservations about introverts?

A real loner wouldn't attend club meetings and certainly wouldn't be engaged to the point of being elected the president of the club.

Some people think that practicing medicine requires interacting frequently with the public and/or with fellow professionals. If you find interactions with others to be draining and prefer to work alone with objects or with your thoughts, a job that requires continuous interaction with other people may become a dreaded ordeal. Although some physicians will find a niche that suits their personality, there is still the 5 yrs or so of clerkships, electives and residency to survive if one is to be licenced and board certified.

As I have said before: As the genie said to Aladdin, "Be yourself." If it is the reasoned opinion of interviewers that your personality would not be a good fit with their school, it is better to find out before you plunk down thousands of dollars and then get poor evaluations that cause doors to slam in your face when you make your residency applications.
 
Hey LizzyM, thanks for doing this!

If I'm shooting for a top-tier med school, how concerning would a B in biochem 1 look to an adcom when my overall GPA is a 3.80 and sGPA is a 3.75+ and I've earned A's in both genetics and cell biology? Will an A in biochem 2 make up for this?
 
Lizzy, one more! :

How much extracurricular merit is there for being part of a select, small group of on-campus EMT's at an Ivy? Participation would be multi-year with bi-weekly meetings and significant time commitments; is this a "cookie-cutter" EC or something that would garner an adcom's interest? thanks!
 
Part of the beauty of the AMCAS application is that all of your transcripts are combined and a useful table is contructed from the data. It shows the number of credits taken by academic year (roughly the first 30 semester hours are labeled "freshman", the next ~30 sophomore, and so forth regardless of where the classes were taken. Anything over ~90 goes into senior year so it is possible to rack up 60 credits if you end up taking 5 years to earn a degree. Anything after college graduation goes on a line labeled post-bac and graduate credits are displayed separately. Along with the total number of credits, the table shows number of BCPM credits in each academic year, number of AO (all other) credits and the gpa for each of those subsets. There is also a total undergrad BCPM gpa and credits, AO gpa and credits and grand total gpa and credits.

Hi LizzyM,

My transcript contains 55 semester credits in classes listed as equivalents to my AP classes(10 exams). (I will graduate after 4 years with about 180 credits 😀). Will the AMCAS table show these classes (and the fact that I scored a 5 on every exam)?

Thank you for what you are doing 😍
 
Hey LizzyM, thanks for doing this!

If I'm shooting for a top-tier med school, how concerning would a B in biochem 1 look to an adcom when my overall GPA is a 3.80 and sGPA is a 3.75+ and I've earned A's in both genetics and cell biology? Will an A in biochem 2 make up for this?

It makes you look human. No worries.
 
Lizzy, one more! :

How much extracurricular merit is there for being part of a select, small group of on-campus EMT's at an Ivy? Participation would be multi-year with bi-weekly meetings and significant time commitments; is this a "cookie-cutter" EC or something that would garner an adcom's interest? thanks!

There are a thousand (or more) pre-med EMTs serving as first responders at campus events. It is better than getting EMT certified and never using those skills but it doesn't really "stand out" particularly if I look at 25 applicants from your school and 5 have that on their applications.
 
Hi LizzyM,

My transcript contains 55 semester credits in classes listed as equivalents to my AP classes(10 exams). (I will graduate after 4 years with about 180 credits 😀). Will the AMCAS table show these classes (and the fact that I scored a 5 on every exam)?

Thank you for what you are doing 😍

IIRC, the scores on your AP exams are not on the AMCAS application.

The number of AP credits earned is on the AMCAS table (at the bottom) along with the number of credits taken pass/fail and the number of credits done with CLEP.
 
A real loner wouldn't attend club meetings and certainly wouldn't be engaged to the point of being elected the president of the club.

Some people think that practicing medicine requires interacting frequently with the public and/or with fellow professionals. If you find interactions with others to be draining and prefer to work alone with objects or with your thoughts, a job that requires continuous interaction with other people may become a dreaded ordeal. Although some physicians will find a niche that suits their personality, there is still the 5 yrs or so of clerkships, electives and residency to survive if one is to be licenced and board certified.

As I have said before: As the genie said to Aladdin, "Be yourself." If it is the reasoned opinion of interviewers that your personality would not be a good fit with their school, it is better to find out before you plunk down thousands of dollars and then get poor evaluations that cause doors to slam in your face when you make your residency applications.

I'm not entirely sure of what your opinion of a real loner is, but I certainly didn't give myself this label. A week that goes by where I'm not being poked at for wanting to be alone or for being "too quiet" or "too reserved" would be a miracle. And I disagree that a loner wouldn't be involved in clubs enough to get elected president. If we know that our future pretty much depends on it because most people tend to have a bias against loners, I assure you that we are able to "suck it up" and get things done.

And although I do find people draining, it's not something that I haven't learned to properly deal with over these past 20+ years. I just make sure to enjoy my alone time whenever socializing isn't absolutely necessary (which it is for the vast majority of professions out there... or at least the exciting ones anyway).

Anywhoo.. your input was really helpful; it certainly takes the edge off. Thanks a mil. 👍
 
Dayum LizzyM:

I promised my self I would not post again, but here goes:

What are the implications of a dual degree in medical school admissions. let's say for example, a BS in biology and a MS in HealthCare Administration. Is that a plus or is it similar to the MBA training where additional management training may be beneficial?
 
I'm not entirely sure of what your opinion of a real loner is, but I certainly didn't give myself this label. A week that goes by where I'm not being poked at for wanting to be alone or for being "too quiet" or "too reserved" would be a miracle. And I disagree that a loner wouldn't be involved in clubs enough to get elected president. If we know that our future pretty much depends on it because most people tend to have a bias against loners, I assure you that we are able to "suck it up" and get things done.

And although I do find people draining, it's not something that I haven't learned to properly deal with over these past 20+ years. I just make sure to enjoy my alone time whenever socializing isn't absolutely necessary (which it is for the vast majority of professions out there... or at least the exciting ones anyway).

Anywhoo.. your input was really helpful; it certainly takes the edge off. Thanks a mil. 👍

What I'm trying to say is that while you may label yourself a "loner" you don't deserve that title if you are outgoing enough to suck it up and end up the president of an organization.
 
Dayum LizzyM:

I promised my self I would not post again, but here goes:

What are the implications of a dual degree in medical school admissions. let's say for example, a BS in biology and a MS in HealthCare Administration. Is that a plus or is it similar to the MBA training where additional management training may be beneficial?

I've never seen anyone on the adcom get very excited about a masters degree. YMMV
 
Hey LizzyM, I attended one school briefly and transferred out of the school before the add drop period for personal reasons. I know amcas requires transcripts from every school you attended but this school says they can't give me a transcript because there's no history of me in classes (I had no grades or withdrawals, never even took a quiz)? Would it be okay to not list the school or would a dean letter suffice since I am in good standing? Or would an addendum to my application be better in case it comes up? Thanks!
 
Yes. Some applicants get in with no research at all.



Part of the beauty of the AMCAS application is that all of your transcripts are combined and a useful table is contructed from the data. It shows the number of credits taken by academic year (roughly the first 30 semester hours are labeled "freshman", the next ~30 sophomore, and so forth regardless of where the classes were taken. Anything over ~90 goes into senior year so it is possible to rack up 60 credits if you end up taking 5 years to earn a degree. Anything after college graduation goes on a line labeled post-bac and graduate credits are displayed separately. Along with the total number of credits, the table shows number of BCPM credits in each academic year, number of AO (all other) credits and the gpa for each of those subsets. There is also a total undergrad BCPM gpa and credits, AO gpa and credits and grand total gpa and credits.

Wooohoo thanks for the help. I did 83 semester in 2 years. I'm a bit confused about the 30 units goes into my freshman year etc. So will AAMC just force my transcript into showing 15 units per semester? I would of liked it to show 18+ units each semester to show that even though I was in community, I tried to add some rigor 😛
 
Hey LizzyM, I attended one school briefly and transferred out of the school before the add drop period for personal reasons. I know amcas requires transcripts from every school you attended but this school says they can't give me a transcript because there's no history of me in classes (I had no grades or withdrawals, never even took a quiz)? Would it be okay to not list the school or would a dean letter suffice since I am in good standing? Or would an addendum to my application be better in case it comes up? Thanks!

If there is no record that you attended this school, then there is nothing you have to prove you were enrolled there. It might be best to call AAMC and ask how to handle this.
 
Wooohoo thanks for the help. I did 83 semester in 2 years. I'm a bit confused about the 30 units goes into my freshman year etc. So will AAMC just force my transcript into showing 15 units per semester? I would of liked it to show 18+ units each semester to show that even though I was in community, I tried to add some rigor 😛

It gets cut by academic year if it makes sense to do so. Where it doesn't make sense if when people go part-time for years and years. If it takes 3 years at 3 different schools to accumulate the first 30 credits, then those 30 will be called "freshman year" and the next 30-ish will be sophomore year even if that took 2 additional years of part-time school. They wouldn't show freshman year to be 6 credits: 3 in English and 3 in pre-calc.

If you took 36-40 units in an academic year then that's what will be shown for the academic year.
 
It's nice of you to take the time to do this. Extremely helpful thread, everyone should read this.
 
So if I am completely uninterested in research, are there serious advantages to attending a more "prestigious" or "top tier" school?
 
Thank you once again for your responses. They are incredibly helpful.

After reading your responses, I could not help but have a couple other questions sprout up. Specifically, at top tiers, etc, if one does a postbac to repair a lower gpa and has a high enough mcat to be seriously considered (ex 3.4-3.5 gpa and 38+), do these schools weigh undergrad performance more than the postbac (even if the postbac is much higher--3.7+ to make up for subpar undergrad--3.0 as a result of extenuating circumstances) as not all applicants need a postbac?

Finally, when analyzing the 10-90% of gpa/mcat ranges in the MSAR, if you are .1-.3 below the bottom 10% but have an mcat score thats at the higher end of the range (towards the 90% or higher), would this student still have a reasonable shot at a top tier school? Additionally, as I have heard that people as low as 3.0-3.1 have gotten interviews from top tiers (saw the ranges at several school's websites as well as sdn), generally, what have you noticed that these students have done to be seriously considered by the adcom/granted an interview?

your clarifications would be grateful. thank you once again.

respectfully,
polyploidy516
 
So if I am completely uninterested in research, are there serious advantages to attending a more "prestigious" or "top tier" school?

What do you value? How do the schools that have admitted you fit with what you value?

What you value could include minimizing debt, social status/prestige, proximity to family/friends/your preferred leisure activities, inexpensive housing, available childcare, job/school for a trailing spouse, educational techniques & practices, location-types of clinical rotations, ... and so forth.

If research opportunities is not on the list of what you value, then you have to consider how well a school known for its research opportunities also fits with what you are looking for in a med school.
 
Thank you once again for your responses. They are incredibly helpful.

After reading your responses, I could not help but have a couple other questions sprout up. Specifically, at top tiers, etc, if one does a postbac to repair a lower gpa and has a high enough mcat to be seriously considered (ex 3.4-3.5 gpa and 38+), do these schools weigh undergrad performance more than the postbac (even if the postbac is much higher--3.7+ to make up for subpar undergrad--3.0 as a result of extenuating circumstances) as not all applicants need a postbac?

The undergrad gpa will not be ignored. The big question is whether the excellent post-bac mitigates the damage and reassures adcom members that you can handle med school.

Finally, when analyzing the 10-90% of gpa/mcat ranges in the MSAR, if you are .1-.3 below the bottom 10% but have an mcat score thats at the higher end of the range (towards the 90% or higher), would this student still have a reasonable shot at a top tier school?

Don't bother if your LizzyM score is 5 points below the school's LizzyM score.


Additionally, as I have heard that people as low as 3.0-3.1 have gotten interviews from top tiers (saw the ranges at several school's websites as well as sdn), generally, what have you noticed that these students have done to be seriously considered by the adcom/granted an interview?

Being born into wealth and privilege and/or been born URM seems to help. 😳
 
LizzyM,

I have another question. Music has been a huge part of my life. I've been performing for many years (mostly on piano) and have documented this with videos and a youtube channel. Do adcoms care about this sort of thing? If they do, should I request a LOR from my piano studio professor? Since I am younger than most applicants, I was thinking that the music might show that have a record of following through with long term projects and pushing it to a very high level.

Also, I had originally intended to get a BA in Piano, (in addition to a BS in Chemistry), but I have recently joined an on campus lab and I am running short of time. Would there be any difference in how an adcom would see a BA vs. a minor in piano?

What do you think?
 
There are a thousand (or more) pre-med EMTs serving as first responders at campus events. It is better than getting EMT certified and never using those skills but it doesn't really "stand out" particularly if I look at 25 applicants from your school and 5 have that on their applications.

Ever see a unique use with an EMT cert? I'm a bit of a thrill-seeker and looking for something alongside BLS/Rescue.
 
LizzyM,

I have another question. Music has been a huge part of my life. I've been performing for many years (mostly on piano) and have documented this with videos and a youtube channel. Do adcoms care about this sort of thing? If they do, should I request a LOR from my piano studio professor? Since I am younger than most applicants, I was thinking that the music might show that have a record of following through with long term projects and pushing it to a very high level.

Also, I had originally intended to get a BA in Piano, (in addition to a BS in Chemistry), but I have recently joined an on campus lab and I am running short of time. Would there be any difference in how an adcom would see a BA vs. a minor in piano?

What do you think?

A second major vs a minor is of no consequence to adcoms.

If you use a slot in the experience section for your piano activities (and you should!) it would be fun to include a link to your videos. I've had some fun interviews with people who have music videos online.
 
Ever see a unique use with an EMT cert? I'm a bit of a thrill-seeker and looking for something alongside BLS/Rescue.

I am convinced that there is nothing in the world that is "unique" in a pool of 35,000+ applicants. I even met two hotdog vendors from the same ballpark. (now, you'd think that was a unique EC, wouldn't ya?)
 
Thank you for your responses, LizzyM,

Another question that I have is in regards to the diversity offices and initiatives that top tier schools have; specifically, as I am applying as a disadvantaged applicant but am not a minority, would I still be considered as an applicant of diversity (in this case, socioeconomic diversity as opposed to racial diversity) that would benefit my application? Additionally, I would really like to know how much disadvantaged status can help/hinder an application especially if it had an impact on the student's gpa (3.4-3.5 range)?

Thank you once again. Amazing trend.
 
Thank you for your responses, LizzyM,

Another question that I have is in regards to the diversity offices and initiatives that top tier schools have; specifically, as I am applying as a disadvantaged applicant but am not a minority, would I still be considered as an applicant of diversity (in this case, socioeconomic diversity as opposed to racial diversity) that would benefit my application? Additionally, I would really like to know how much disadvantaged status can help/hinder an application especially if it had an impact on the student's gpa (3.4-3.5 range)?

Thank you once again. Amazing trend.

I'm sure there is a lot of variety in how schools approach this factor in making interview and admission decisions. I myself generally think of disadvantaged status as being worth about 2-3 LizzyM points depending on severity and duration. That said, my school's LizzyM score is among the highest and spotting someone 2-3 points still puts them solidly in the group that has good odds of academic success in medical school.
 
IIRC, the scores on your AP exams are not on the AMCAS application.

The number of AP credits earned is on the AMCAS table (at the bottom) along with the number of credits taken pass/fail and the number of credits done with CLEP.

Will a large amount of AP credits count against you in admissions?

In my specific case I ap'd out of general chemistry and bio, but got As in pchem, ochem, biochem, and genetics. I also got a 14 and 12 on the PS and BS of the MCAT. Will this show that I have sufficient mastery of the prereq material?

Thanks alot!
 
Will a large amount of AP credits count against you in admissions?

In my specific case I ap'd out of general chemistry and bio, but got As in pchem, ochem, biochem, and genetics. I also got a 14 and 12 on the PS and BS of the MCAT. Will this show that I have sufficient mastery of the prereq material?

Thanks alot!

Some schools will expect you to use it as Advanced Placement meaning that you take those exams so as to qualify for more advanced level courses in those subject areas. Some schools will not want to see you use the soley as a substitute for college classes, particularly the pre-reqs, without taking more advanced level work in those subjects.
 
are applicants who come from schools with no premed committee (aka we won't have a committee letter) at any kind of disadvantage? for example, when you talk about the gpa inflation/deflation, you say that the adcoms look for this kind of information from the premed committee letter, but what if our doesn't have this option? (just curious)

also thanks so much for this thread! 🙂 i kinda wish it had been up before i applied but this will be great for future applicants!
 
Some schools understand that students take a meandering path to medical school. Your PS should address how you determined that you wanted a career in medicine and how you tested that interest (through volunteerism, employment and/or shadowing). In the course of telling your story, you can explain how you chose accounting and how you determined that it wasn't right for you.

Thank you! - very helpful for my next steps. 🙂 I'm in a similar situation so this was great to know.
 
Some schools will expect you to use it as Advanced Placement meaning that you take those exams so as to qualify for more advanced level courses in those subject areas. Some schools will not want to see you use the soley as a substitute for college classes, particularly the pre-reqs, without taking more advanced level work in those subjects.

Would this apply to a non-science course like english?
 
Why is listing activities from high school frowned upon. What if you did hospital voulunteer work that was more then passing out magazines. A position where you worked with a physician and did direct patient care. One where you were allowed to go into the operating room and observe surgeries.
 
In relation to a previous answer you gave, where you stated some schools understand the "meandering path" -- is there a general group of schools that are more friendly to non-traditionals? Would top tier schools be out of the question for the applicant who is overall above average/strong in numbers & ECs, but had some hiccups here and there while she was "meandering"? Thank you!
 
Hi 🙂 Thanks for answering these questions, it's really a great help.

I was wondering if applicants involved in athletics can have weak areas in their application forgiven (i.e. not a significant number of volunteer hours/only summer research and none during the academic year)? I'm a three season athlete and practice 3-4 hours a day so it's difficult to secure volunteer and research positions without flexibility.

Also, is athletic participation seen as a plus?

Thank you!
 
The undergrad gpa will not be ignored. The big question is whether the excellent post-bac mitigates the damage and reassures adcom members that you can handle med school.

Assuming a good MCAT, is a postbac of 4.0 grades in all the prerequisite classes going to be enough to prove this, or should I take additional upper division classes? No matter what I do I won't be able to get my cumulative GPA much over 3.2, so I'm basically trying for an acceptance based on good postbac grades and three years of full-time volunteering.
 
1. How much consideration is given to extenuating circumstances, that result in damage to what would've been an otherwise decent gpa (3.6+ down to 3.2, probably would've been a 3.7+)? I had an un-diagnosed condition at the time, but everything was documented and can be linked to my current condition.
2. Could a health condition be grounds for rejection although its regulated by medication(going on 1 yr)?
 
are applicants who come from schools with no premed committee (aka we won't have a committee letter) at any kind of disadvantage? for example, when you talk about the gpa inflation/deflation, you say that the adcoms look for this kind of information from the premed committee letter, but what if our doesn't have this option? (just curious)

also thanks so much for this thread! 🙂 i kinda wish it had been up before i applied but this will be great for future applicants!

I do think that applicants from schools without a committee letter are at a disadvantage. Many of these schools are huge and the required courses have hundreds of students so it is almost impossible to have an instructor in such a class who can write an informative LOR that goes beyond the grade book.
 
Why is listing activities from high school frowned upon. What if you did hospital voulunteer work that was more then passing out magazines. A position where you worked with a physician and did direct patient care. One where you were allowed to go into the operating room and observe surgeries.

The thought is that you should have done things after HS graduation and not rested on your laurels. So, you should build on the experiences you did in HS. The idea is that you did things as a kid and now you are an adult and you bring more maturity and insight into the experiences and thus they are processed in your mind differently even if the physical activities are the same.

There is no rule against listing activities from HS but it is hoped that you have so many solid experiences from after HS that there isn't room for that "old news". It can also be interpreted as "padding" an otherwise thin application and you don't want that!
 
In relation to a previous answer you gave, where you stated some schools understand the "meandering path" -- is there a general group of schools that are more friendly to non-traditionals? Would top tier schools be out of the question for the applicant who is overall above average/strong in numbers & ECs, but had some hiccups here and there while she was "meandering"? Thank you!

All I know is my own school... go over to the non-trad board and there are many friendly non-trads who will share their wisdom.
 
Hi 🙂 Thanks for answering these questions, it's really a great help.

I was wondering if applicants involved in athletics can have weak areas in their application forgiven (i.e. not a significant number of volunteer hours/only summer research and none during the academic year)?
sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. They don't call it a crap shoot for nothin'.
I'm a three season athlete and practice 3-4 hours a day so it's difficult to secure volunteer and research positions without flexibility.

Also, is athletic participation seen as a plus?

Thank you!

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. There are jocks (and parents of jocks) on the adcom who love jock applicants and others who are not impressed. It is luck of the draw whether you get one who is or isn't reading your application.
 
Assuming a good MCAT, is a postbac of 4.0 grades in all the prerequisite classes going to be enough to prove this, or should I take additional upper division classes? No matter what I do I won't be able to get my cumulative GPA much over 3.2, so I'm basically trying for an acceptance based on good postbac grades and three years of full-time volunteering.

Take this to "what are my chances". My experience is limited to one upper tier school and I shouldn't give advice that could be both discouraging and inaccurate.
 
I've gotten a B and C+ in my first two chemistry classes, is it worth it to retake Chem II or just move on to organic chemistry? I made a B+ in bio, A in pre-calc and A+ in Calculus as well as straight A's in both chem labs and bio lab, my sGPA is around a 3.4 and I'm a sophomore, thanks!
 
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