associate positions in dental chain groups

[smith2007]

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Lately in my school, I've been hearing a lot of advertising from dental chain groups. They're offering six-figure salaries for new grads.

Given the high salaries, are there a lot of competition for these jobs? Also, are there any drawbacks from working in chain groups?

Also, what do you think of the metropolitan areas, namely NYC and LA? Is it really difficult to make a living there as a dentist? I realize that there are so many dentists in large cities but I thought the large amount of people living there would balance the dentist-to-population ratio.

Feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[12YearOldKid]

You have to watch out for what's in your contract with these guys. Some will guarantee a six figure salary, but the fine print of the contract will stipulate that you must meet certain production goals. When those aren't met they dock your salary.

There are other, trickier schemes I have heard of from these chains. Be sure to go over your contract with a fine tooth comb.

 

[NileBDS]

Very true ...
In addition to writing sneaky contracts, they will milk you like a cow ! It is not unusual to have to butt heads with the "office manager" over production, and have the regionals contantly breathing down your neck.
Having said that, I used to assist a recent grad in one of those corp offices who made $175k/yr out of school ! But even so, I don't think I would personally work there ...

 

[albany11]

Given the high salaries, are there a lot of competition for these jobs?
answer: NO , readily available all the time

Also, are there any drawbacks from working in chain groups? yes


Also, what do you think of the metropolitan areas, namely NYC and LA? Is it really difficult to make a living there as a dentist? no,
there are tons of jobs open. Choose where you want to live, and
you can do well anywhere. just need good marketing, about 800-1400
active pts will do

I realize that there are so many dentists in large cities but I thought the large amount of people living there would balance the dentist-to-population ratio.
true
Feedback would be much appreciated.[/QUOTE]

 

[Stroszeck]

"there are tons of jobs open"

Really? And where exactly can they be found? Through simply shot-gunning one's resume to all the phone book docs, who, in the end will want to pay you $80-90K BEFORE taxes and treat you like an idiot? No doubt dentists in Los Angeles will not be "starving," but you wont exactly be able to live in a great apartment, drive a decent car AND carry that load of huge debts. The funny thing about this board is the HUGE amounts of positively, uh, optomistic students who just shoot out dreams such as "I'll be making $300,000 by the time I'm about 28". Sorry, but with the recent trends that I have been noting between the complaining practicing dentists who own their own practice, have been associates for 4 or 5 years now and RECENT graduates who have had to settle on $300 - $400 a day with $150-250K IN DEBT, I don't exactly think that you could call dentistry "lucrative" can you?

 

[NUKE]

"there are tons of jobs open"

Really? And where exactly can they be found? Through simply shot-gunning one's resume to all the phone book docs, who, in the end will want to pay you $80-90K BEFORE taxes and treat you like an idiot? No doubt dentists in Los Angeles will not be "starving," but you wont exactly be able to live in a great apartment, drive a decent car AND carry that load of huge debts. The funny thing about this board is the HUGE amounts of positively, uh, optomistic students who just shoot out dreams such as "I'll be making $300,000 by the time I'm about 28". Sorry, but with the recent trends that I have been noting between the complaining practicing dentists who own their own practice, have been associates for 4 or 5 years now and RECENT graduates who have had to settle on $300 - $400 a day with $150-250K IN DEBT, I don't exactly think that you could call dentistry "lucrative" can you?

This is a very negative perspective. Listen people, before you all get this woe is me attitude about dentistry, think about this: You will make over 70000 first year out. How much do you live on now? 15,000 Your salary will go up. You will be sucessful and only work the hours you want to work. I dont know a single dentist who has been in practice more than 10 years that doesnt make more than 200000. This income is just from dentistry, by this time in your lives that money will be working for you in many other ways making you more than that (real estate, stocks, other buisness) Why do you think dentists average less than 40 hours a week. If they needed more money they would work more. Bottom line great profession and great income. You all made a great decision. How much do you really need to be happy?????

 

[DcS]

In regard to the OP's question...in NC I have a classmate who will be working at a medicaid clinic. He is getting 165k base salary plus 30% of everything he produces over that. He is a speed demon and will be getting production on top of that. As with anything in life, it has pros and cons. IMHO, the positive aspects are that you will make good money and will get great real world experience working on speed and patient care. On the downside, in a clinic like that you will treat an unreal # of patients per day. Many times your treatment will be dictated by what medicaid will cover. I have a few friends who are very burnt out having done this route. If done for only a year or two I think the money is good if you can deal with it.

I'm not sure about other locations but public health clinics are a good deal down here. A classmate of mine signed a typical deal in Kentucky that is similar to NC. He signed a 3 year contract (his wife will be a resident for that long). They will pay back 25k of loans year 1, 25k year 2 and 35k year 3 on top of his salary which is around 90k. Now you have to realize that them paying back 25k in loans in a year is like paying you 35k extra because that is what you would have to earn more or less before taxes to put 25k to the loan.

Whoever said places like NYC are 'easy' to get a job really need to get a clue.

 

[gryffindor]

Whoever said places like NYC are 'easy' to get a job really need to get a clue.

It's not easy. My friends & I have all been through several jobs already, always in search for a better job where they may screw you less. I am so sick of being a pawn, but owners know they can do it because dentists are a dime a dozen around here. I make enough to pay the outrageous rent and to go out and have a good time, but I also don't have $300K loan repayments. At times, the only plus I can think of for being a dentist in the city is that if you open the NY Times and start calling, someone will hire you so at least you won't be unemployed.

 

[blotterspotter]

You guys are depressin me

 

[NileBDS]

It's not easy. My friends & I have all been through several jobs already ........... At times, the only plus I can think of for being a dentist in the city is that if you open the NY Times and start calling, someone will hire you so at least you won't be unemployed.

Scary thoughts, coming from someone practicing ! 😱
Is it true that NY state boards will be requiring 1-2 year residencies following dental school prior to licensure ?

 

[mahya]

After reading all of these posts and being realistic about the job...I love dentistry..I am not looking for making 300,000 a yr when I graduate..I just want to be able to make around 12,000 a month by 2 yrs after graduation so I can be able to pay of my 300,000 loan amount if I go to USC..!!!! So scared I have to live on nothing to pay back my loan... 😱

 

[12YearOldKid]

..I just want to be able to make around 12,000 a month by 2 yrs after graduation

Oh to have such simple needs. "I don't need to be rich or anything. I just want a job that pays $150,000 a year almost immediately upon graduation."

 

[albany11]

It's not easy. My friends & I have all been through several jobs already, always in search for a better job where they may screw you less. I am so sick of being a pawn, but owners know they can do it because dentists are a dime a dozen around here. I make enough to pay the outrageous rent and to go out and have a good time, but I also don't have $300K loan repayments. At times, the only plus I can think of for being a dentist in the city is that if you open the NY Times and start calling, someone will hire you so at least you won't be unemployed.

not only in NYC, its everywhere,,you are a pawn if you are an employee
That's the way it is

 

[albany11]

It's not easy. My friends & I have all been through several jobs already, always in search for a better job where they may screw you less.


Griffin

How have they screwed the associate?
They work, they get paid

 

[gryffindor]

It's not easy. My friends & I have all been through several jobs already, always in search for a better job where they may screw you less.


Griffin

How have they screwed the associate?
They work, they get paid

Yes, but you don't always get paid what you are supposed to. Here is my latest gripe story - An owner dentist was out of town, the office was in a bind, the temp agency calls me to see if I can cover for the day. The temp agency quoted me a salary for that day, I agreed. I went to the office, politely did what presented to me, came home. A week later, the owner (I have never met this dentist) sends me a check for 2/3 of the agreed salary. Turns out the staff decided to tell the owner I was incompetent, the office lied to the temp agency, a saga was created, & they arbitrarily decided to pay me less without any communication with me. After many phone calls & arguing on my part, I was sent the remaining 1/3, but was this really necessary? Think about it - if I hadn't challenged them, the office would have gotten away without paying 1/3 of my salary for the day. 😡

Or how about a job where my daily production is mysteriously reduced before calculating x% production. Or the job where you are promised x% production, but turns out the reimbursement rates of your production is similar to the fee schedule your dental school used (think $10 sealants and $400 dentures). If you ask questions, expect shady answers or a straight lies. 😕

Why bother arguing? Instead of putting up with nonsense like this, you quit and look for something better.

 

[DcS]

Yes, but you don't always get paid what you are supposed to. Here is my latest gripe story - An owner dentist was out of town, the office was in a bind, the temp agency calls me to see if I can cover for the day. The temp agency quoted me a salary for that day, I agreed. I went to the office, politely did what presented to me, came home. A week later, the owner (I have never met this dentist) sends me a check for 2/3 of the agreed salary. Turns out the staff decided to tell the owner I was incompetent, the office lied to the temp agency, a saga was created, & they arbitrarily decided to pay me less without any communication with me. After many phone calls & arguing on my part, I was sent the remaining 1/3, but was this really necessary? Think about it - if I hadn't challenged them, the office would have gotten away without paying 1/3 of my salary for the day. 😡

Or how about a job where my daily production is mysteriously reduced before calculating x% production. Or the job where you are promised x% production, but turns out the reimbursement rates of your production is similar to the fee schedule your dental school used (think $10 sealants and $400 dentures). If you ask questions, expect shady answers or a straight lies. 😕

Why bother arguing? Instead of putting up with nonsense like this, you quit and look for something better.

I don't mean to come of the wrong way, but don't you think if the staff thought you were incompetent, you must have done something to make them? It's not like they are just trying to get you to lose some $$ by reporting that. I'd be more interested in finding out what i did to make the staff think that so I can avoid it in the future.

Also, regarding your examples of how you have gotten screwed by positions. A lot of that seems to be stuff you could have seen before you started. How can you complain about a fee schedule at a practice you work...I'm sure you had access to it before signing on. If you didn't look well then it's kind of your fault. If you sign a contract with x% of production and you feel like you aren't getting it, spend an extra 20 mins a day and go through the day sheets and add it all up. If it's in writing and you are being low-balled, I'm not sure how they can argue.

 

[smith2007]

It's not easy. My friends & I have all been through several jobs already, always in search for a better job where they may screw you less. I am so sick of being a pawn, but owners know they can do it because dentists are a dime a dozen around here.

As you said, there are a lot of dentists in the nyc area but doesn't the 8 million+ pop. size of the city make up for the seemingly large supply of dentists?

Conversely, there are fewer people living in rural areas, so how is it possible to earn more by working in a small town?

Also, what about your friends that are working outside of nyc? How are they doing?

 

[DrJeff]

As you said, there are a lot of dentists in the nyc area but doesn't the 8 million+ pop. size of the city make up for the seemingly large supply of dentists?

Conversely, there are fewer people living in rural areas, so how is it possible to earn more by working in a small town?

Also, what about your friends that are working outside of nyc? How are they doing?

It's quite simple to earn more in a small town vs. a big city. First off, less dentists around = less competition = less spent on advertising (all I do in my small town is a simple 1 line in the yellow pages , which btw still costs $100 a month 😱 ). Office space costs less. My partner and I own the building and between the mortage on the building(just under 3500 sq. ft), and the monthly payments on the equipment, we're paying roughly $3 a sq. ft for everything (office space + equipment) try doing anything close to that in a big city. Plus, it costs alot less to live in a rural area than in abig city. true, less social opportunities exist, but now that I've moved out of single mode and into first married and now parent mode, that's fine with me. Okay, I might not do as many full mouth reconstruction cases/ 14+ veneer cases as in the big city, but I'll take do lots of single unti crown and bridge, implant, endo and quadrant restorative cases all the way to the bank each and evry day. Having first worked in the suburbs before I went to the country, I can also tell you that working in a rural environment that your patients tend to be much more concerned about paying their bills vs. in the suburbs, and hence the accounts receivable (money that patient owes you either in direct cash or insurance checks) is much lower in the rural setting than in a urban/suburban setting.

There is also a great topic subheading/threads about small town dentistry ongoing over at dentaltown.com.

 

[gryffindor]

I don't mean to come of the wrong way, but don't you think if the staff thought you were incompetent, you must have done something to make them? It's not like they are just trying to get you to lose some $$ by reporting that. I'd be more interested in finding out what i did to make the staff think that so I can avoid it in the future.

Also, regarding your examples of how you have gotten screwed by positions. A lot of that seems to be stuff you could have seen before you started. How can you complain about a fee schedule at a practice you work...I'm sure you had access to it before signing on. If you didn't look well then it's kind of your fault. If you sign a contract with x% of production and you feel like you aren't getting it, spend an extra 20 mins a day and go through the day sheets and add it all up. If it's in writing and you are being low-balled, I'm not sure how they can argue.

In writing? All of the positions I've come across are WORD-OF-MOUTH agreements, sealing with a handshake is optional. You agree to a salary & what days/hours you work. When it's time to leave you say "I quit. This is my 2 week notice."

Access to fee schedule? Nope. And this is at many jobs I've interviewed at. Many of them accept these ridiculous insurances that pay so little and the point of having the associate is to see these patients. Sure you can say "Oh so you won't show me the fee schedule? I won't work here." Then you go home and have no income to pay your rent that month but hey - at least you have your pride? Pride doesn't pay the rent. So you start at the crappy job and make some money, get some experience, and stay on the lookout for something better.

Day sheets? We're not talking sophisticated practices like the ones featured on the covers of the glossy magazines. Honestly, I don't even know what a day sheet is, I don't think any of the practices I've come across showed me these or know what it is either.

And when you are a temp dentist in an office for a day, you show up, be nice to the patients & don't piss the staff off, and do your job. In exchange, you are paid the agreed salary. It's sort of unwritten common knowledge that a temp dentist covering an office is there to see emergencies, do some simple operative/extractions, and usually oversee the hygiene dept. because the hygienists can't work if there isn't a licensed dentist present. You would think it's common sense to not hand a dentist you barely know surgical exos/calcified endo/crown & bridge, yet I have been given these on temp assignments 🙄 . Believe me, I was surprised to learn what had transpired after I left the office since I left thinking everything had gone ok.

I have a huge binder full of all the wonderful advice you suggest that my dental school taught me before I graduated. I now laugh and curse that binder because most of it ended up not applying to the jobs we've came across here. And my story isn't just me complaining - when my friends & I get together, we all seem to have the same story to tell...

 

[DcS]

In writing? All of the positions I've come across are WORD-OF-MOUTH agreements, sealing with a handshake is optional. You agree to a salary & what days/hours you work. When it's time to leave you say "I quit. This is my 2 week notice."

Okay, I'm going to take a deep breath and not try to sound like the bad guy. First of all, dentistry is a BUSINESS. It's probably due to lack of experience but you need to educate yourself regarding it or you are going to lose a lot of money during your career.

A huge binder full of wonderful advice that is not applicable in the real world? First of all, you are crazy to ever work on a hand shake. Word of mouth? What are you NUTS! This is business...you are providing a service and you are getting paid. Thus, there are stipulations as to what earns you money. I know you understand this but to work somewhere without the terms in writing is absolutely crazy. Even if you don't want to formally sign one, if you request it the answer from them should be a resounding yes. When you rent your apartment, did you just shake and promise to pay them? When you purchase a car, did you say 'hey I'm good for it' and they let that go? This is the real world. When you work, you have what are called contracts. For you to work without your expectations, your pay, your PTO, etc etc etc in writing is absolutely ludicrous.

Access to fee schedule? Nope. And this is at many jobs I've interviewed at. Many of them accept these ridiculous insurances that pay so little and the point of having the associate is to see these patients. Sure you can say "Oh so you won't show me the fee schedule? I won't work here." Then you go home and have no income to pay your rent that month but hey - at least you have your pride? Pride doesn't pay the rent. So you start at the crappy job and make some money, get some experience, and stay on the lookout for something better.

I have talked to 10+ of my classmates. Every single one of them had access to fee schedules, day sheets, # of incoming new patients, collection %, anything they wanted. How can you not look at this when potentially taking a job. NYC must be like an abyss...these are friends all over the US! How would a potential employer not offer you that information to make a decision on whether or not to work there? Why would they hide that? How do you know if there is going to be enough patient flow for you to actually do work. How do you know if you are going to be paid well enough if there fees are terrible? I am shocked that you would take a job without asking or being offered that. If they would not provide that info, then they are a terrible and shady practice. Does that sound familiar from your experience? Please don't confuse pride with common sense.

Day sheets? We're not talking sophisticated practices like the ones featured on the covers of the glossy magazines. Honestly, I don't even know what a day sheet is, I don't think any of the practices I've come across showed me these or know what it is either.

Again, I'm going to take another deep breath. A day sheet confined to "sophisticated practices like the ones feature on the covers of glossy magazines"? Are you serious? You can't be. The ice cream shop around the corner from you uses day sheets much the same as any business. What do you think, practices get paid from patients, throw it all in a drawer and just scoop it up in a baggie drop it off at the banK????? "Hey, don't worry about it...I'm sure it all adds up". A day sheet has how much money came into the practice that day, how much they billed out in procedures that day, etc etc. It's like balancing a check book, it's a simple spreadsheet even a monkey could read. How in the WORLD do you think practices keep track of this stuff? You should be able to pick it up, see what you did that day and add up how much was billed. I seriously am at a loss right now to read what you wrote about that. You have a LOT to learn about the basic running of a business.

I have a huge binder full of all the wonderful advice you suggest that my dental school taught me before I graduated. I now laugh and curse that binder because most of it ended up not applying to the jobs we've came across here. And my story isn't just me complaining - when my friends & I get together, we all seem to have the same story to tell...

That advice is wonderful because it's real world advice. It's not some magic notebook...those are the most basic things about working for a practice. I'm sure you won't take my word since I'm 'just' a graduating senior. Perhaps Dr. Jeff can come in here and open your eyes to the world that surrounds us. And the tone of this post is the way it is because of your sarcastic reply which showed you basically have no idea about how a dental practice works.

Perhaps NYC is just an anomoly but I can't see it. Is that all that's really available to you? I think the bad experiences you've had are the result of the lower quality of practice you've sought out. Do you feel like you do good work? Then you owe it to yourself to request those basic things above. I have a friend who works in upstate jersey and I will gladly call her. She went to UMDNJ and has plenty of friends in NYC. I've got to see if this is true.


WOW. That's about all I can

 

[gryffindor]

That advice is wonderful because it's real world advice. It's not some magic notebook...those are the most basic things about working for a practice. I'm sure you won't take my word since I'm 'just' a graduating senior. Perhaps Dr. Jeff can come in here and open your eyes to the world that surrounds us. And the tone of this post is the way it is because of your sarcastic reply which showed you basically have no idea about how a dental practice works.

Perhaps NYC is just an anomoly but I can't see it. Is that all that's really available to you? I think the bad experiences you've had are the result of the lower quality of practice you've sought out. Do you feel like you do good work? Then you owe it to yourself to request those basic things above. I have a friend who works in upstate jersey and I will gladly call her. She went to UMDNJ and has plenty of friends in NYC. I've got to see if this is true.

🙄

Yes, you're a senior and I was once one too. I had lots of similar ideas & expectations like yours two years ago about getting a job and being an associate, even last year before my GPR ended. I had no idea it was going to be like this until I bumped into a fellow alumni at an ortho program who had first been a GP in NYC and told me what to expect when job hunting here. I've read Dr. Jeff's posts for a long time and I think his office sounds like a very fair place to work.

I'm not looking for the reality check you think I need. I know darn well there is a business end of dentistry. I have also seen dental practices that run the business end smoothly, I just haven't seen one that was hiring when I was looking. Besides, I'm no longer looking since I leave for ortho residency soon. Have you read the other posts on this thread besides mine? There are plenty of other new grads getting the short end of the stick. You think my post is an anomaly but there really aren't too many practicing dentists posting on this site and I think I'll step out too, leave SDN to be for the the hopes & dreams of the pre-dents and dental students and the sarcasm of the residents. The OP wanted some opinions and I have shared mine.

DcS, when you get out in the real world & get your first few paychecks as a dentist, then we'll see.

 

[Extraction]

Yes, but you don't always get paid what you are supposed to. Here is my latest gripe story - An owner dentist was out of town, the office was in a bind, the temp agency calls me to see if I can cover for the day. The temp agency quoted me a salary for that day, I agreed. I went to the office, politely did what presented to me, came home. A week later, the owner (I have never met this dentist) sends me a check for 2/3 of the agreed salary. Turns out the staff decided to tell the owner I was incompetent, the office lied to the temp agency, a saga was created, & they arbitrarily decided to pay me less without any communication with me. After many phone calls & arguing on my part, I was sent the remaining 1/3, but was this really necessary? Think about it - if I hadn't challenged them, the office would have gotten away without paying 1/3 of my salary for the day. 😡

Or how about a job where my daily production is mysteriously reduced before calculating x% production. Or the job where you are promised x% production, but turns out the reimbursement rates of your production is similar to the fee schedule your dental school used (think $10 sealants and $400 dentures). If you ask questions, expect shady answers or a straight lies. 😕

Why bother arguing? Instead of putting up with nonsense like this, you quit and look for something better.

I feel your pain. Over my med school spring break I worked 7 days. One office paid me for 10 hours at when I worked 12.5hours. The owner has prostate cancer and they hired me since no other temp doc would perform extractions. I called and bi@tched and they are going to end me another check for $160 for 2 hours. Another office I worked at for 35% production said I billed $1500 when I billed closer to $6K. I have the Kodak practice works printouts am waiting for their office to open today to complain. Another office I regullarly work at pays me $100/hr which is great except I work like a dog and bill 7-12K+/day and typically get around 10%. Anyway in one week I made about 7K but have only been paid 5K and have to am having to fight to get the rest. Somes office have put me on payroll while other screw me over as an 'independent contractor' which cost me another ~6%. Ironically these places have called asking me to work more days and don't understand why I won't.

 

[albany11]

extraction, that's pretty good,
even at 5k a week, that's $700 + a day

Do only do extraction:How many teeth do you extract per day ?

How much is the fee for extraction generally?
Thanks

Anyway in one week I made about 7K but have only been paid 5K and have to am having to fight to get the rest.

 

[DrJeff]

Okay, I'm going to take a deep breath and not try to sound like the bad guy. First of all, dentistry is a BUSINESS. It's probably due to lack of experience but you need to educate yourself regarding it or you are going to lose a lot of money during your career.

A huge binder full of wonderful advice that is not applicable in the real world? First of all, you are crazy to ever work on a hand shake. Word of mouth? What are you NUTS! This is business...you are providing a service and you are getting paid. Thus, there are stipulations as to what earns you money. I know you understand this but to work somewhere without the terms in writing is absolutely crazy. Even if you don't want to formally sign one, if you request it the answer from them should be a resounding yes. When you rent your apartment, did you just shake and promise to pay them? When you purchase a car, did you say 'hey I'm good for it' and they let that go? This is the real world. When you work, you have what are called contracts. For you to work without your expectations, your pay, your PTO, etc etc etc in writing is absolutely ludicrous.



I have talked to 10+ of my classmates. Every single one of them had access to fee schedules, day sheets, # of incoming new patients, collection %, anything they wanted. How can you not look at this when potentially taking a job. NYC must be like an abyss...these are friends all over the US! How would a potential employer not offer you that information to make a decision on whether or not to work there? Why would they hide that? How do you know if there is going to be enough patient flow for you to actually do work. How do you know if you are going to be paid well enough if there fees are terrible? I am shocked that you would take a job without asking or being offered that. If they would not provide that info, then they are a terrible and shady practice. Does that sound familiar from your experience? Please don't confuse pride with common sense.



Again, I'm going to take another deep breath. A day sheet confined to "sophisticated practices like the ones feature on the covers of glossy magazines"? Are you serious? You can't be. The ice cream shop around the corner from you uses day sheets much the same as any business. What do you think, practices get paid from patients, throw it all in a drawer and just scoop it up in a baggie drop it off at the banK????? "Hey, don't worry about it...I'm sure it all adds up". A day sheet has how much money came into the practice that day, how much they billed out in procedures that day, etc etc. It's like balancing a check book, it's a simple spreadsheet even a monkey could read. How in the WORLD do you think practices keep track of this stuff? You should be able to pick it up, see what you did that day and add up how much was billed. I seriously am at a loss right now to read what you wrote about that. You have a LOT to learn about the basic running of a business.



That advice is wonderful because it's real world advice. It's not some magic notebook...those are the most basic things about working for a practice. I'm sure you won't take my word since I'm 'just' a graduating senior. Perhaps Dr. Jeff can come in here and open your eyes to the world that surrounds us. And the tone of this post is the way it is because of your sarcastic reply which showed you basically have no idea about how a dental practice works.

Perhaps NYC is just an anomoly but I can't see it. Is that all that's really available to you? I think the bad experiences you've had are the result of the lower quality of practice you've sought out. Do you feel like you do good work? Then you owe it to yourself to request those basic things above. I have a friend who works in upstate jersey and I will gladly call her. She went to UMDNJ and has plenty of friends in NYC. I've got to see if this is true.


WOW. That's about all I can

The problem with this profession is that sometimes (as with almost any profession) you'll run into some unscrupulous a$$ h*&^s in this business, and that leaves a very sour taste in one's mouth. Big picture, there are BILLIONS of dollars spent on dentistry in the U.S. each year, and roughly 250,000 dentists in the U.S. Do the math there's plenty of $$ to go around, and the sooner one realizes this, the better they'll do. Patients are incredibly quick to pick up on a pressured situation and tend to shy away from reccommended treatment in those situations, this will frustrate those unscrupulous, a$$ h*&^s and they'll look to cut corners(and costs) and do what ever they can to make an extra buck. This often will effect the associate or temp doc situation. I've learned that I do more dentistry by educating patients and not trying to sell dentistry to patients.

I will admit though, that I lucked out with the practice I'm in. 5 years ago today was my first day in my practice (the way I remember the exact day is that it was the day that my partner's 3rd kid was born, and he turned 5 today), I walked into the office, my (now) partner said to me, "here's where we keep the schedules, here's the fee schedule, and here's the password to the practice mangement software with all the $$ figures, and to top it off, here's the phone # to the accountant that does the practice's figures and I told him to give you whatever info you want!"

The guy I work with got screwed while he was an associate and is so intent to make sure that he wouldn't become an a$$ h^%$ dentist, that he's just about as opposite from that as you can get.

If you find yourself in a screw situation, keep looking around there are more good hearted, honest dentists out there and a$$ h*&^s, it's just that the good ones like to be quiet(generally) and the a$$ h*&^s generally stink up the joint for the rest of us 😡

 

[gryffindor]

When you rent your apartment, did you just shake and promise to pay them?

Actually, yes, many people do this in NYC. It's called subletting and is often done around here with verbal agreements and no paperwork involved. It's not uncommon since many people don't make the stringent income requirements needed to get on the actual lease, so they have to look to other ways of being able to get an apartment.

Extraction, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you get stuck in these lousy situations too, but hey - at least we know the worst of what is out there so you can keep your eyes open for something better at the end of residency. I've gotten the "independent contractor" nonsense too. BTW, the office where you billed 6K but they claim you only did 1.5K - are you looking at the practice fees for what you did while they are giving you insurance reimbursement rates for your work? Just curious.

 

[DcS]

Actually, yes, many people do this in NYC. It's called subletting and is often done around here with verbal agreements and no paperwork involved. It's not uncommon since many people don't make the stringent income requirements needed to get on the actual lease, so they have to look to other ways of being able to get an apartment.

Extraction, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you get stuck in these lousy situations too, but hey - at least we know the worst of what is out there so you can keep your eyes open for something better at the end of residency. I've gotten the "independent contractor" nonsense too. BTW, the office where you billed 6K but they claim you only did 1.5K - are you looking at the practice fees for what you did while they are giving you insurance reimbursement rates for your work? Just curious.

The funny thing is that you initially said in your last post that you were done on this topic. Then you come back, post a second retort, and edit your statment saying you were done on the topic. 👍

 

[Extraction]

Actually, yes, many people do this in NYC. It's called subletting and is often done around here with verbal agreements and no paperwork involved. It's not uncommon since many people don't make the stringent income requirements needed to get on the actual lease, so they have to look to other ways of being able to get an apartment.

Extraction, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you get stuck in these lousy situations too, but hey - at least we know the worst of what is out there so you can keep your eyes open for something better at the end of residency. I've gotten the "independent contractor" nonsense too. BTW, the office where you billed 6K but they claim you only did 1.5K - are you looking at the practice fees for what you did while they are giving you insurance reimbursement rates for your work? Just curious.

That was the actual discounted charges. Mostly medicaid fees at a dental chain. Medicaid pays ~$140 for a full boney which earns me $50 @ 35%. The actual office fees are alot higher, I have them at home but am on MSIII OB/GYN call at the hospital. I called them today it will be set straight. It takes about 60-90 days to collect Medicaid.

The office fees before discount would have been $11350 almost double what was billed. Some patients were insurance or cash. You have to see 2-2.5x the number of patients with medicaid to earn the same amount a insurance/cash payments. Its a wonder anyone accepts it at all. Maybe other states pay better than here.