"At Home Euthanasia" ?

[awaring1]

So a discussion in another topic caused me to stumble upon this lovely website:

http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

I posted it on the other thread, but decided that it was worthy of a thread of its own.

My question is, what are your reactions to this site?

My initial response was horror because in general I think a lot of people do stupid things and I could see someone botching this terribly and making a horrible situation. Messing with chemicals is a sitcky business to those who do not understand how it works. (Oh yeah, just grab some acid and mix it with some stuff). It claims to be for small animals such as rodents but they author mentions how it could easily be rigged for larger animals and even humans (holy ****!). I feel like dropping a brick on a mouse could be better than these homemade contraptions.

Would any vet ever support this?
Does anyone see this as a practical method?

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[WhtsThFrequency]

I have no words.

The only animal I have ever euthanized myself is my fish, with an overdose of clove oil - quite humane because it is an instant anesthetic - I used to use it to knock my puffer out to clip his beak. But that's different than rigging a contraption with chemicals to kill a small (or larger, as the author suggested!) mammal.

You know what they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I can see a lot of stupid people doing this. Scary. But such stuff is rampant. All sorts of at-home veterinary cures and preventatives touted by people who have no idea what they are talking about. It's a sad side effect of the business.

However, I do wish that more vets would offer at-home euthanasias. I do realize, unfortunately, that most clinics are always crazy busy, and this may not be possible. But you know, one can hope. I plan to euthanize my animals at home when their times come, with the assistance of a friend or technician. Even as a trained vet, I would never consider performing a euthanasia solo at home - things can and do go wrong....the catheter slips out of the vein, you end up needed a bigger dose than you have, etc.....and if disaster strikes your own two hands may not be enough to fix it.

 

[Ben and Me]

That literally made me feel sick to my stomach.

 

[nohika]

I just almost threw up. That is incredibly...beyond words.

 

[pawprints]

Wow... Just... Wow.
I feel sick.

 

[thedogisgreen]

barf:

 

[thereservoirdog]

Very lame! If you're that cheap you can always take the pet to the shelter and have a professional do it for you. Or fork over the extravagant amount of about $100 and take it to a vet.

Anyways, check out the comment I left on that site about fluffy. Hopefully that should deter some dog and cat owners from trying this.

 

[Nechochwen]

Talk about coincidence.

We had a vet come in today talking about his exclusive exotic vet practice. Someone asked about having to confront clients about inappropriate husbandry; taking a hard line, but not getting the client on the defensive. He mentioned this same method (found on the internet and all) being used on an owners rat. He did take a hard line and checked what AVMA said. I haven't checked myself, but he said that CO was only considered in certain situations. Also, the concentration of the gas used should be very high, causing the euthanasia to be quite rapid. According to the owner, it took around a minute for the rat to asphyxiate.

Scary though, real scary.

 

[ImNotThatGirl]

I used to work in a laboratory where we had to euthanize mice with CO2 on a daily basis, and I have also worked in a pathology lab where I had to euthanize chickens, turkeys, etc. After reading this article, I can totally see how someone could botch this up if they did it at home.

From personal experience, if CO2 happens to leak out too much, or if the room isn't properly ventilated, it can definitely make you woozy. Also, there is the possibility of not administering the CO2 for long enough or at a high enough concentration, in which case the animal won't be completely dead before you dispose of the body. This is a procedure that you need to take certain steps to ensure that it's done properly, and some Jim Bob Schmoe making this stuff in his backyard probably isn't going to do that.

I think this article speaks for itself in the line under "A Euthanasia Machine" that says: "A high degree of control is not possible in the procedures described above."

 

[Cautionary Tail]

I found the author's suggestion that the owner wait "at least 10-30 minutes" before checking to see that the animal had expired horrifying. Thirty minutes? So, basically, if you botch things, they're going to end up stuck in your makeshift CO2 chamber for half an hour, during which they (depending on how badly you botched things) may or may not be conscious. That is barbaric.

I realize that those who use this method in laboratories and such (and actually know what they are doing) probably leave the animals in the apparatus for a prolonged period of time in order to ensure that they've been successful... but with the methods he's advocating, there's so much room for error that the possibility of prolonged consciousness is pretty disturbing. And I'm willing to venture that those who attempt said method aren't always watching to ensure that the animal goes quickly. If you leave and come back thirty minutes later so you don't have to see it, what happens if you screwed up?

 

[lareinesoleil]

This is terrifying. Especially how they imply through their wording that it's AVMA approved. Like I'm sure the AVMA is going to say, "yeah, go ahead and make a sh*tty homemade death machine out of a plastic jug. What could possibly go wrong there?"

I know of a client who did this once - basically hooked her dog up to the car exhaust somehow (a cardboard box, I think). When she told us, way after the fact, we were horrified. She definitely did NOT ask us first, and if she had, none of the staff or the veterinarian would have told her it was OK. (This was on the phone with the receptionist, and I think she told her as professionally as possible how horrible that was.) I don't know of a veterinarian that would support this. At-home euthanasia by a professional, yes. This chamber of horrors, no.

Seriously, that's why there are shelters and free clinics.

 

[squirrelsrule]

OMG that makes me sick! The wildlife center I volunteer with uses a CO2 chamber, which in my opinion can be horrifying even when professionally done, I can't even imagine how horribly that could go wrong with some idiot trying to set it up on their own.

There is a traveling vet that I shadowed with once that will do in home euthanasia and I think that is great, although I almost think people leave their animals go even longer knowing that they won't have to get them to the vet, the vet will just come and do it whenever they decide. The one dog he euthanized hadn't been up and about in a week! He was just laying on the floor of the living room, it was very sad.

 

[milkmaid]

I worked in a raptor center once where rats and trapped squirrels were euthanized by CO2... I believe she just put them in a rubbermaid tub with dry ice and closed the lid. Not sure how that compares with the suggestion in that article, and I don't know if it was at all humane... just throwing that out there. The article is more than slightly appalling.

 

[awaring1]

I worked in a raptor center once where rats and trapped squirrels were euthanized by CO2.

Is is strange if the first thing I thought of was a Velociraptor clinic?

 

[168135]

Is is strange if the first thing I thought of was a Velociraptor clinic?

Win.

I wanna be a dinosaur vet!

Oh oh... wait a second... I wanna be...

a Pokemon vet!

You get to wear that cute little outfit and work in a Pokemon Center... how rad would that be?

 

[Chaco]

"The services of a vet may not be available when they are needed; transporting the pet to the vet might be too disturbing, causing fear and discomfort in the pet's final hours"

I think this is really sad, for a couple reasons: that people would be afraid to have their animal receive the best care possible because THEY are disturbed by the situation; second, that owners feel the animal being alone in a strange gas-filled chamber is less stressful or scary than euthanasia at a clinic, where the situation can be customized to make the owner and pet feel more comfortable. I think that all of this stems from the feelings of the owner regarding the euthanasia visit itself, not the animal's best interest, and every clinic should work with their clientele to make sure that they are comfortable coming in instead of trying at home.

 

[Coquette22]

I worked in a raptor center once where rats and trapped squirrels were euthanized by CO2... I believe she just put them in a rubbermaid tub with dry ice and closed the lid. Not sure how that compares with the suggestion in that article, and I don't know if it was at all humane... just throwing that out there. The article is more than slightly appalling.

Dry ice has a temperature of -78C. They'd be horrifically cold before they died. I can only imagine how much pain would be caused by being exposed to that.

 

[Mama070609]

Ok, I'm going to throw this out here for discussion...

(attempted) Sleeping pill overdose for large dog at-home euthanasia?

I was a teenager (14/15) and was told this was recommended by the veterinarian. Whether it was recommended by the vet or not, it was done because the dog (who was actually just a little older than me) was so arthritic he often couldn't move around on his own, especially when it was cold, was obviously in a lot of pain, and the owner couldn't afford the cost of euthanasia at the vet. (The other option the owner considered was by bullet, but despite having much experience with the procedure and the know-how to do it correctly, he couldn't bear the thought of doing it to this animal)

The attempt and the next attempt with a much larger dosage failed. The dog lived another year and half or so before dying of natural causes. I have no clue what medication was actually used, nor what dosages were used. But I've always been curious about it (and wondered if I was lied to about it being recommended by the vet).

 

[turnandburn]

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone is going to take this seriously. I'm ranking it up there with Bonsai Kittens

 

[roughleggedhawk]

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone is going to take this seriously. I'm ranking it up there with Bonsai Kittens

I'm pretty sure this is serious. Even if it isn't, discussion about at-home euthanasia is common on the internet if you know where to look. Some aviculture forums regularly have discussions about what the best method for at-home euthanasia is (particularly from those who raise exotic fowl for meat and feathers). Homebuilt CO2 chambers are pretty common, as are other, even less palatable methods, like car exhaust, electrocution and my personal favourite, injecting rubbing alcohol into the skull cavity. I have learned to not click on those threads.

I'm sure that there are some laypeople who can responsibly and humanely do home euthanasia, and I believe CO2 (and even electrocution) are humane when done properly. But there are so many ways this method could go wrong, not to mention the fact that the author of this site says some things that are quite awful. "While all vets should know how to perform humane euthanasia properly, some may not want to bother... Some vets, when not being observed, may skip the first step and just inject something lethal into the body cavity." Seriously? Pretty sure this will strongly encourage people to do this themselves, rather than find a vet who, you know, deserves to have a licence to practice and will euthanize animals humanely.

 

[Coquette22]

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone is going to take this seriously. I'm ranking it up there with Bonsai Kittens

Having known people who have done at-home cat neuters, it doesn't surprise me one bit that some people may also do at-home euthanasia.

 

[168135]

People also get high off euthasol. It's all out there somewhere.

 

[awaring1]

...injecting rubbing alcohol into the skull cavity.

 

[bbeventer]

I can just see poor rodents being berried alive.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I believe CO2 (and even electrocution) are humane when done properly.

While I disagree that CO2 is humane, I'm happy to see someone saying electro can be humane.

We do it to pigs all the time (and then bleed them out, of course).

Properly done electrocution is very humane and quick - I put it in the same category of captive bolt. No problem with it. I think the issue is that the idea of it makes people squeamish. I guess you have to have done it in order to judge if it is humane or not.

Personally, the CO2 euths (which were done without Iso-ing beforehand) I have done when I was working as a lab animal tech left a bad taste in my mouth. The suffering is just too long for me, unless we're talking newborns in which case it is much faster.

And I agree with Coquette - people are much, much more stupid that we think. I have seen some horrendous at-home procedures done.

 

[awaring1]

So I obviously have not taken any veterinary courses and I took Animal Phys over a year ago so I'm not 100% positive, but from what I remember the stress response (like the burning when you hold your breath) is determined by the buildup of CO2, not the lack of oxygen. Some people were saying that a slow buildup of CO2 acts almost as a sedative/analgesic. Is this physiologically true? It seems to me like a buildup of CO2 at any rate would feel like suffocating with a plastic bag over your head. aka: unpleasantness

I have not heard much about electrocution but I would need the humane aspect of it explained to me. I am assuming if done in the right way it will instantly overload the nervous system and the animal will be knocked unconscious? They do this with pigs, right?

 

[Coquette22]

I have not heard much about electrocution but I would need the humane aspect of it explained to me. I am assuming if done in the right way it will instantly overload the nervous system and the animal will be knocked unconscious? They do this with pigs, right?

The AVMA has a report on euthanasia methods that I just found. It has this to say:

Electrocution, using alternating current, has been used as a method of euthanasia for species such as dogs, cattle, sheep, swine, foxes, and mink. Electrocution induces death by cardiac fibrillation, which causes cerebral hypoxia. However, animals do not lose consciousness for 10 to 30 seconds or more after onset of cardiac fibrillation. It is imperative that animals be unconscious before being electrocuted. This can be accomplished by any acceptable means, including electrical stunning. Although an effective, 1-step stunning and electrocution method has been described for use in sheep and hogs, euthanasia by electrocution in most species remains a 2-step procedure.

Link: http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Although an effective, 1-step stunning and electrocution method has been described for use in sheep and hogs, euthanasia by electrocution in most species remains a 2-step procedure

Sorry, that's what I meant. We used a large enough dose to render them unconscious, then bled them. Not a generic "shock dose". I still have yet to see a hog remain conscious after an electro dose, but that's my experience. We stick them with the probes, and they're done. And even if its 5-10 seconds....maybe I'm cold, but such a short period of time means nothing to me. 60-120 sec (what I was used to with lab animals) does. maybe out system was inefficient though. Perhaps better ones exist to knock them out faster.

 

[turnandburn]

I guess I'm not really phased because most people don't *want* to kill their own pet by stuffing them in a CO2 filled chamber. And the people who aren't bothered by doing that are unlikely to seek veterinary assistance anyway

 

[KiaKia]

So I obviously have not taken any veterinary courses and I took Animal Phys over a year ago so I'm not 100% positive, but from what I remember the stress response (like the burning when you hold your breath) is determined by the buildup of CO2, not the lack of oxygen. Some people were saying that a slow buildup of CO2 acts almost as a sedative/analgesic. Is this physiologically true? It seems to me like a buildup of CO2 at any rate would feel like suffocating with a plastic bag over your head. aka: unpleasantness

I'd like to hear about this too - drowning/bag over the head is horrible (lots of thrashing & panic), but people "accidentally" stay with their cars on in the garage, pass out, and die.

Also, people have been doing "at home euthenasia" for meat since the domestication of animals..you'd think there'd be some standard for small-scale death like this.

What makes me squeamish are people who flush their live fish down the toilet.

 

[awaring1]

people "accidentally" stay with their cars on in the garage, pass out, and die.

This is carbon monoxide poisoning, which is different. (right?)
There was an puppy-mill owner in my area who killed a ton of dogs like this. He didn't bother to have them vaccinated so parvo spread around. He didn't want to pay for a vet to treat them so he stuck them in a cardboard box with a bag over it and hooked it up to his car exhaust. He did it in big batches with multiple dogs per box and all the other dogs could see him doing it.
He was charged with a bunch of things, but I don't think cruelty was one of them.

 

[KiaKia]

I guess we should all brush up on asphyxiation and the suicide bag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphyxia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bag

A suicide bag, also known as an exit bag, is a device consisting of a large plastic bag with a drawcord used to commit suicide. It is simple to make at home or can be bought over the internet.[1] It is usually used in conjunction with an inert gas like helium or nitrogen, which prevents the panic, sense of suffocation and struggling even when unconscious (the hypercapnic alarm response) caused by the deprivation of oxygen in the presence of carbon dioxide. It also makes the method of death difficult to trace if the bag and gas canister are removed before the death is reported.[2][3][4]

 

[pennyonthefloor]

Wow. This method ranks up there with other suggested methods I've heard from people I have come in contact with recently: throwing the animal out the window of a fast moving vehicle and using it as target practice....

Not advocating for this method, but I must agree, if CO2 acts as more of a sedative it'd be far more humane than some of the things I've heard.....

As for someone not believing that people would actually do things like this... since moving to a very rural area... I have witnessed so many things that have made my jaw drop or have made me sick to my stomach, it's not even funny...

 

[KiaKia]

Not advocating for this method, but I must agree, if CO2 acts as more of a sedative it'd be far more humane than some of the things I've heard.....

Looks like *anything but* CO2 acts more like a sedative, which makes sense since inert gases are not good signals of "you're drowning! panic!" since you're more likely to get into situations where you have a dangerous excess of CO2 than Helium.

If you've ever stopped oxygen from going to your brain while continuing to breathe, you just see stars and go to sleep. I mean, if I were a pet with an anti-professional euthenasia/bullet to the head/quality guillotine owner, I'd probably prefer CO (not CO2) poisoning.

electrocution, gassing, guillotine, all developed to have quick, humane ways to kill humans.

 

[Bigcatlover]

It also makes the method of death difficult to trace if the bag and gas canister are removed before the death is reported.[2][3][4]

Uh Oh, is this thread teaching us how to get away with murder? lol

 

[cwazy cat lady]

From what I have been taught, CO is still used widely in some states to euthanize large numbers of shelter animals. As far as I know, it is not considered current best practice. I don't want to read any more horror stories... the ones I heard were bad enough.