At what level of work could you do dentistry indefinitely?

[ortho20255]

I am starting to feel burnt out from dentistry doing 5 days a week. I don't feel this is sustainable. Just wanting to hear from people as to whether dropping their days, or working shorter hours, or being an associate rather than practice owner, or anything that they did that helped get back on top of work to allow them to be in a position where they don't feel the need to rush towards retirement.

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[Pablo Sanchez]

I’m sorry that you’re experiencing some burnout. Just listened to a podcast about this today. Bulletproof Dental Practice: Find Your Goldilocks in Dentistry. There are an infinite amount of pathways that you can take in dentistry. You could work part time. You could go out of network and get paid more for your work, but work less. You could stay in network and build a business where you can stay out of clinical dentistry and mentor associates while doing the business stuff. You’re not locked in to working five days a week forever. Good luck!

 

[bahter]

Sorry to hear this. I too, felt like this at one point. One thing that helped was cutting back from 5-6 days to 4. Also establishing boundaries. I do not sacrifice lunch nor do I squeeze in long procedures at the end of the day. Surprisingly, my income increased while dentistry become more enjoyable again. A mentor of mine mentions how this a marathon and not a sprint. Find your sustainable pace. Best of luck.

 

[TanMan]

I am starting to feel burnt out from dentistry doing 5 days a week. I don't feel this is sustainable. Just wanting to hear from people as to whether dropping their days, or working shorter hours, or being an associate rather than practice owner, or anything that they did that helped get back on top of work to allow them to be in a position where they don't feel the need to rush towards retirement.

It is a cyclical burnout. It depends on the types of patients you deal with and the amount of workflow you have. Crazy patients come in waves and that's when you get burned out. I shorten my hours, but I am getting more efficient as I see the same amount or more patients with less hours. Right now, I have 29-32 hours spread along 5 days, depending on consumer demand.

 

[Saddleshoes]

I am at the end of a 40+ year career...
I found my "sweet spot" by never doing private practice 2 days in a row. I found working in public health and teaching on Tuesdays and Thursdays was great therapy for the private practice grind.


(I also support bather's comment about NEVER sacrifice lunch!)

 

[2TH MVR]

Lots of good advice here.
To summarize and add a few pearls.

1. 4 day work week.
2. Always take lunch and GET OUT OF THE OFFICE. You need some down time to re-energize for the afternoon.
3. I NEVER review the next days schedule. I do not want to be burdened with thoughts of the next day, or any difficult patient coming in. Work stays at work. Home is my personal time.
4. Common sense: good diet and stay in shape. Poor posture, out of shape will lead to back issues which leads to negative thoughts during the day. Stay in shape. Eat right. Eliminate sugar from your diet. No energy drinks. Eat healthy snacks during the day to keep the energy levels up.
5. This is controversial: I've been both a practice owner and currently an employee at a Corp. There is definitely less stress clocking in and clocking out. Don't get me wrong. Not a fan of Corporates, but I am less burnt out day to day vs. the demands of running a small business.
6. Take vacations. Again ..... re-energize.
7. And hopefully .... you enjoy what you do. Dentistry, ortho, surgery, etc. etc.

Oh. I forgot. Eliminate those problem patients from your practice.

 

[DrMarioRobles]

Just adding my two cents to this: it’s important to manage both your time and the types of procedures you choose to take on. When I first graduated, I had the mindset of becoming a “super dentist,” saying yes to every treatment that came through the door. Over time, I learned the hard way that this approach can lead to burnout. One of the best things you can do for your well-being and is to delegate the procedures you don’t enjoy or that consume too much of your day.

As others have mentioned, make it a priority to take your lunch breaks and use your vacation time. Focus on the procedures you enjoy, and don’t hesitate to refer out the ones that don’t align with your strengths or interests. It makes a huge difference in long term satisfaction and sustainability.

 

[TanMan]

Lots of good advice here.
To summarize and add a few pearls.

1. 4 day work week.
2. Always take lunch and GET OUT OF THE OFFICE. You need some down time to re-energize for the afternoon.
3. I NEVER review the next days schedule. I do not want to be burdened with thoughts of the next day, or any difficult patient coming in. Work stays at work. Home is my personal time.
4. Common sense: good diet and stay in shape. Poor posture, out of shape will lead to back issues which leads to negative thoughts during the day. Stay in shape. Eat right. Eliminate sugar from your diet. No energy drinks. Eat healthy snacks during the day to keep the energy levels up.
5. This is controversial: I've been both a practice owner and currently an employee at a Corp. There is definitely less stress clocking in and clocking out. Don't get me wrong. Not a fan of Corporates, but I am less burnt out day to day vs. the demands of running a small business.
6. Take vacations. Again ..... re-energize.
7. And hopefully .... you enjoy what you do. Dentistry, ortho, surgery, etc. etc.

Oh. I forgot. Eliminate those problem patients from your practice.

I'd probably take a different stance on some of these...

1. Shorter work weeks are better, but you could also condense your work hours more too
2. Lunch makes me sluggish. I dunno about you, but I'd rather work straight through, get rid of the lunch hour and get out an hour earlier or start an hour earlier
3. I'd say just glance at the schedule to make sure all the cases are in (for delivery cases) and make sure they are putting the appropriate time (i.e an implant does not need a 2 hour block)
4. No sugar?! I love my sugar, caffeine and energy drinks. I don't have diabetes.... yet.
5. I don't think I can go to becoming an employee and being told what to do.
6. Vacations are great!
7. True, and have fun.

 

[yappy]

For me, it's all about reducing the pain points of clinical practice.

In the operatory, that means having the right tools and a capable team to get the job done efficiently, effectively, and ergonomically. I have no interest in dealing with incompetent staff or poorly functioning equipment. Over the years, I’ve worked to make my setup as ergonomic as possible so that I'm always comfortable while working.

Another major issue is minimizing encounters with difficult or potentially disruptive patients. I used to see front office staff spending more than 30 minutes negotiating appointments and financial details with unreasonable or demanding individuals. I stepped in to change that dynamic, and things have improved significantly since.

Finally, I've structured things so that my job can be more than just a paycheck. I chose this career to be a healthcare provider. When I was exposed to non-clinical corporate people, overly focused on financial metrics and arbitrary goals, I experienced what’s referred to as "moral injury": the disconnect that occurs when your actions are misaligned with your deeply held professional values. Engineer your office and personal finances so that your job aligns with your values.

And yes, drop down to four days per week.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I am starting to feel burnt out from dentistry doing 5 days a week. I don't feel this is sustainable. Just wanting to hear from people as to whether dropping their days, or working shorter hours, or being an associate rather than practice owner, or anything that they did that helped get back on top of work to allow them to be in a position where they don't feel the need to rush towards retirement.

It’s all about $.

Once I had a 7 figure brokerage account- I cut back a lot. Started dropping hours and insurance plans. Stopped doing molar endo.

Work hard when you are young. Get a bunch of money- invest and compound it- start easing up the workload once that money starts to compound. 1-2million dollars liquid cash (excluding house and practice) is a solid number where compound interest works in your favor.

 

[charlestweed]

For me, it was when I paid off my last debt and when my children were old enough (18 yo) to be able to support themselves. When I was a young dentist with huge debt, one thing that I feared the most was to put my wife and kids at a financial strain, if something bad (a permanent disability, cancer, or death) happened to me. I didn’t want to pass on the debt burden to my wife if something bad happened to me. So working less days wasn’t an option for me. I worked as hard as I could during my younger years, when I was still healthy, to pay off debt ASAP + to save for my future retirement (by buying rental properties, which continue to generate passive income after I retire) + to save for my kids’ college education as fast as I could. I stopped working 6 days/wk as soon as I paid off my last debt, which was my primary home's loan….when I turned 49. I graduated at 29. So it had been 20 yrs of hard work for me.

Now that I fulfill my financial goal, work is no longer a huge responsibility as it once was. Now, I only work 17 days/month and only 3 hours/day on 8 of those 17 days. On my days off, I play guitar/piano, do work around the house, mow the grass, take care of my garden etc to maintain an active lifestyle. My kids are in their early 20s. They are still relying on me for financial support (both are in college) but if something bad happens to me, they should be able to take care of themselves.

I guess life situation is different for everybody. Some are single, no kid. Some are married and have kids. Some are divorced. Some like to travel and spend. Some want to save and retire early. Some live in high cost of living area and need larger budget. Some live in low cost area etc.

 

[TanMan]

I just re-read the title... who would want to do dentistry indefinitely? The money is good, but it can get boring sometimes. Finding what makes dentistry fun is the key. For me, it is pushing the limits and boundaries of material science, technology, techniques, and financial productivity. I think once I hit a wall that I cannot surpass, I'll probably retire knowing that I hit the peak of my efficiency curve. I get bored easily and prefer to be hands on with businesses (not for the sake of being hands on but pushing the boundaries of those businesses as well). 1-2 million dollars saved can be burned through rather quickly. I'd probably say aim higher to maintain a nicer lifestyle. Otherwise, you may be relegated to a middle class lifestyle.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I just re-read the title... who would want to do dentistry indefinitely? The money is good, but it can get boring sometimes. Finding what makes dentistry fun is the key. For me, it is pushing the limits and boundaries of material science, technology, techniques, and financial productivity. I think once I hit a wall that I cannot surpass, I'll probably retire knowing that I hit the peak of my efficiency curve. I get bored easily and prefer to be hands on with businesses (not for the sake of being hands on but pushing the boundaries of those businesses as well). 1-2 million dollars saved can be burned through rather quickly. I'd probably say aim higher to maintain a nicer lifestyle. Otherwise, you may be relegated to a middle class lifestyle.

Ah the middle class lifestyle of 1-2 million liquid cash and no debt. Woe is me.

Sign me up.

 

[TanMan]

Ah the middle class lifestyle of 1-2 million liquid cash and no debt. Woe is me.

Sign me up.

TBH, did any of us sign up for dentistry to be the working poor/middle class? Depending on where you live and your lifestyle, that 1-2 million in liquid cash isn't going far in a large part of the US, and even if you had no debt burden, there are living expenses.

 

[ortho20255]

I just re-read the title... who would want to do dentistry indefinitely? The money is good, but it can get boring sometimes. Finding what makes dentistry fun is the key. For me, it is pushing the limits and boundaries of material science, technology, techniques, and financial productivity. I think once I hit a wall that I cannot surpass, I'll probably retire knowing that I hit the peak of my efficiency curve. I get bored easily and prefer to be hands on with businesses (not for the sake of being hands on but pushing the boundaries of those businesses as well). 1-2 million dollars saved can be burned through rather quickly. I'd probably say aim higher to maintain a nicer lifestyle. Otherwise, you may be relegated to a middle class lifestyle.

No one wants to do dentistry forever, but I don't want to work really hard and always look forward to the day I can stop, then appreciate the hard work when I'm too old. So for me, retirement isn't the goal. My goal is a lifestyle that I could do forever and not be focused on "it will get better when I retire". I was reading a thread on white coat investor and a doctor was talking about how he dropped to 3 days a week and felt so refreshed by the end of 4 days off that he could manage that pace forever. For me, that is better than retirement, its also a lot sooner than retirement

 

[charlestweed]

People have strongly criticized Suze Orman for saying that $2M is not enough to retire early. I think Suze was right, especially now when a lot of things cost more than double compared to 10 years ago. And nobody can predict know how much more things will cost 10 years from now; therefore, it’s better to save more than not saving enough.

You still have to pay property tax, property insurance, utility bills, landscape/pool maintenance on the house that you already paid off. These will set you back $1-2k/month, which doesn’t seem a lot to you now because you are working. You pay $1-2 k/month for your health insurance (depends on the number of members in the family) and the premium increases every year because you’re getting older. You pay another $1k/month in auto insurance…another $1k/month in grocery shopping. And you will be left with nothing to live. You can forget about having a nice vacation trip every year.

$2M may be ok if you are single. It may be enough if you still maintain steady income with a 1-2 day/week part time job. It may be enough if you retire at 65 because you have medicare and social security money. It’s not enough if you choose to retire young…like in your mid 40s, 50s. Many people, who are in their 40s, 50s, still have young kids who are in middle and high schools.

 

[ortho20255]

People have strongly criticized Suze Orman for saying that $2M is not enough to retire early. I think Suze was right, especially now when a lot of things cost more than double compared to 10 years ago. And nobody can predict know how much more things will cost 10 years from now; therefore, it’s better to save more than not saving enough.

You still have to pay property tax, property insurance, utility bills, landscape/pool maintenance on the house that you already paid off. These will set you back $1-2k/month, which doesn’t seem a lot to you now because you are working. You pay $1-2 k/month for your health insurance (depends on the number of members in the family) and the premium increases every year because you’re getting older. You pay another $1k/month in auto insurance…another $1k/month in grocery shopping. And you will be left with nothing to live. You can forget about having a nice vacation trip every year.

$2M may be ok if you are single. It may be enough if you still maintain steady income with a 1-2 day/week part time job. It may be enough if you retire at 65 because you have medicare and social security money. It’s not enough if you choose to retire young…like in your mid 40s, 50s. Many people, who are in their 40s, 50s, still have young kids who are in middle and high schools.

I think we are headed towards a society where work becomes less important and it is more about the assets you own. I think the people who can get to 2m invested will see it skyrocket with compounding over the next 20 years and those who don't get into the market will be left behind. I think if you can break that barrier of getting to 1m invested you will be ok and can easily work part time the rest of your life, but if you can't get to 1m its going to be a career of working 5 days a week. If you graduate dental school with huge loans and then want to work in California you will get left behind by the people who went rural for the first 5 years of their career and you will never catch up to them

 

[ortho20255]

I think I will always want to work 1 or 2 days a week. If we find in 20 years with inflation a set of braces costs 20,000 then it would be hard to be sitting at home all day every day not working when I could be charging 20,000 for a set of braces