At what point do I logically give up

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I am a recent transfer student to a large university. I took some pre reqs at the cc to get into my program and maintained a good gpa. Once I got to the university my first few quarters I chalked up some poor grades to the big changes I did switching schools. But now with physics and some bio classes I just cannot catch a break. My gpa now has gone from a 3.8 to a 3.2 the last 2 quarters. I study for hours various different ways that people have suggested and have gotten tutoring for physics yet I just am not smart enough to beat some of these kids. At what point do I switch majors or give up on my med school path, theres no way I will get in with this trend. I have tried everything from reaching out to professors and TA's and tutoring. I just cannot succeed at this level apparently. Most will think I am crazy but I am gunning for md, i simply do not want to go to a DO school, and I wouldnt be happy going to one. So i just dont see what to do, If i cant get a good gpa it just seems like I am wasting my time. I am in debt and much older than most, Im 27 and this is a career change. AT this point I am at a loss, this was my plan.
 
How many quarters has it been since you transferred? Has your performance slightly improved?
 
naturally selected said:
I am a recent transfer student to a large university. I took some pre reqs at the cc to get into my program and maintained a good gpa. Once I got to the university my first few quarters I chalked up some poor grades to the big changes I did switching schools. But now with physics and some bio classes I just cannot catch a break. My gpa now has gone from a 3.8 to a 3.2 the last 2 quarters. I study for hours various different ways that people have suggested and have gotten tutoring for physics yet I just am not smart enough to beat some of these kids. At what point do I switch majors or give up on my med school path, theres no way I will get in with this trend. I have tried everything from reaching out to professors and TA's and tutoring. I just cannot succeed at this level apparently. Most will think I am crazy but I am gunning for md, i simply do not want to go to a DO school, and I wouldnt be happy going to one. So i just dont see what to do, If i cant get a good gpa it just seems like I am wasting my time. I am in debt and much older than most, Im 27 and this is a career change. AT this point I am at a loss, this was my plan.
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What has made you so against DO? standing right now from all of the research I have done on these forums it appears that DO MAY be your best shot as of now
 
Caveat: I'm a premed applying this cycle
Community college to a university is a rude awakening for a lot of people, my roommate included (4.0 at CC, C average at university). What is your university GPA to have brought you from 3.8 to 3.2? Must be sub 3.0, even close to 2.0? That's never gonna even come close to MD and likely not even DO. Without an extreme improvement MD needs to leave your mind. Tough love sucks, but sometimes that's what you need.

You just need to focus on keeping a 3.5 as a BARE minimum until you graduate and then if you destroy the MCAT maybe try MD, otherwise an average MCAT solely DO.

Also depends strongly on your ECs.. sometimes a stellar EC applicant can erase some bad metrics.. but we're talking super stellar EC's
 
JessebenBenjamin said:
How many quarters has it been since you transferred? Has your performance slightly improved?
Click to expand...

Hopeful_vet said:
Caveat: I'm a premed applying this cycle
Community college to a university is a rude awakening for a lot of people, my roommate included (4.0 at CC, C average at university). What is your university GPA to have brought you from 3.8 to 3.2? Must be sub 3.0, even close to 2.0? That's never gonna even come close to MD and likely not even DO. Without an extreme improvement MD needs to leave your mind. Tough love sucks, but sometimes that's what you need.

You just need to focus on keeping a 3.5 as a BARE minimum until you graduate and then if you destroy the MCAT maybe try MD, otherwise an average MCAT solely DO.

Also depends strongly on your ECs.. sometimes a stellar EC applicant can erase some bad metrics.. but we're talking super stellar EC's
Click to expand...

I didnt really make it very clear. I am in my third quarter after transferring. My gpa at cc was 3.8 and after my fist two quarters the university gpa is a 3.2, without combining it with my cc gpa. The 3.2 isnt overall cc and uni. Since transferring i got a 3.2 in physics 1 and and just did crappy on my physics test so its not looking up.

And the honestly I dont want to start a MD v DO battle but really I am just not interested in going that route. I have done my research.
 
Ok, you're not nearly as bad off as I first thought. When do you plan on applying? You're in your third qtr, so that means you've finished 2 quarters with a 3.2? You can recover from that.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
1) Think of safety options. Because even if you do have all the academic credentials, you still might not get into an MD school given how much of a crapshoot this process is.
2) Try your best to raise your GPA regardless of whether or not it'll culminate in an MD. You have post-bac/SMP options to further increase your GPA. A 3.0+ GPA will make it easier for you to consider other "back-up" options if you decide to give up on the MD/DO later on.

Edit:
-Consider taking less science courses at once.
-Use internet resources. Plenty of threads here at SDN with tips on how to ace physics, bio, chem, etc.
-Consider transferring to a "less competitive" university if necessary. In most instances, it's not necessary.
 
Hey OP,

I just want you to spend a moment reading what I highlighted in your post. Listen to what you are saying to yourself. It can't feel good saying these things to yourself all the time.

naturally selected said:
I am a recent transfer student to a large university. I took some pre reqs at the cc to get into my program and maintained a good gpa. Once I got to the university my first few quarters I chalked up some poor grades to the big changes I did switching schools. But now with physics and some bio classes I just cannot catch a break. My gpa now has gone from a 3.8 to a 3.2 the last 2 quarters. I study for hours various different ways that people have suggested and have gotten tutoring for physics yet I just am not smart enough to beat some of these kids. At what point do I switch majors or give up on my med school path, theres no way I will get in with this trend. I have tried everything from reaching out to professors and TA's and tutoring. I just cannot succeed at this level apparently. Most will think I am crazy but I am gunning for md, i simply do not want to go to a DO school, and I wouldnt be happy going to one. So i just dont see what to do, If i cant get a good gpa it just seems like I am wasting my time. I am in debt and much older than most, Im 27 and this is a career change. AT this point I am at a loss, this was my plan.
Click to expand...
 
I disagree with mistafab.. I think OP is being realistic given the current trajectory. OP you can look into podiatry as another option
 
So let me get this straight. You had a 3.8 at CC, transferred to a university and earned a 3.2 for your first two quarters. So overall, you probably have something like a 3.5.

OP, you are not out of the running for med school. What you need to do is:
(a) Change your attitude. I know it's hard to feel competent when you're not earning what you're used to, but as mistafab pointed out your attitude is killing your chances more than your studying skills/intellect is. People have been in way worse situations than yours and gotten in. Just google "medical school success stories," or listen to some of The Premed Years podcasts on the subject if you need proof.
(b) Find a way to raise your grades. Maybe you took too many science courses all at once. Maybe you just need a summer to relax and review where you went wrong. Maybe you need a totally new approach. Figure it out, get an upward trend going, finish with a decent GPA. If you have a year or more left this is possible to do while in undergrad.
(c) Consider DO schools. I have no idea where your "i simply do not want to go to a DO school" attitude came from, but at this point a DO is by far your best bet (especially with grade replacement). DOs are doctors, and their curriculum isn't much different from MDs. If you won't consider then at all then I do question your commitment to becoming a physician.
(d) Make sure you're doing everything else premeds should be doing (aka ECs).
 
When I hear what I'm hearing here, I figure that this is someone who wants to graduate from medical school for some reason other than the privilege of caring for people when they are most vulnerable using modern scientific methods and being licensed as a physician to provide medical services to patients. Maybe @naturally selected can tell us why he wants MD after his name. I don't usually recommend Caribbean but when I do it is for someone with the attitude and aptitude of the OP.
 
I will just say this, being an applicant this cycle I am applying to both MD and DO schools with knowledge that with a 3.0sGPA undergrad and 3.8 grad sGPA will likely put me in DO school even with a 505 mcat (not overly high I know) and there is still a very large possibility I may not even get in. I used to want to be a MD so bad but I discovered my love for medicine runs so deeper and that I don't care about the letters, if I can practice medicine thats what I care about and I will do my best to be the best at what I do whether I am a DO or MD. People who are pushing for only MD I question their love of medicine because the initials mean more to them than anything. I don't know your situation OP but its just my two cents....well maybe 5 because this post was long
 
LizzyM said:
When I hear what I'm hearing here, I figure that this is someone who wants to graduate from medical school for some reason other than the privilege of caring for people when they are most vulnerable using modern scientific methods and being licensed as a physician to provide medical services to patients. Maybe @naturally selected can tell us why he wants MD after his name. I don't usually recommend Caribbean but when I do it is for someone with the attitude and aptitude of the OP.
Click to expand...

Aptitude? I feel like that was kinda a low blow. I came here for advice because I'm struggling. I am not in this for letters after my name. But it just seems like a reality that as of now DO is limited in terms of what specialty and such. Again this what not meant to be a battle between the two degrees. I really respect your opinion but it's a little disappointing having you essentially say I am incapable...
 
naturally selected said:
Aptitude? I feel like that was kinda a low blow. I came here for advice because I'm struggling. I am not in this for letters after my name. But it just seems like a reality that as of now DO is limited in terms of what specialty and such. Again this what not meant to be a battle between the two degrees. I really respect your opinion but it's a little disappointing having you essentially say I am incapable...
Click to expand...
What specialties are closed to DOs?

You may have the aptitude for medical school but it may be a DO school. If your attitude is that you have to go to MD or else not go at all, then you may have what it takes to get into a Caribbean school and you may even have the aptitude to graduate from such a school with the MD. What you may not have is an easy path to licensure in the US which would be far, far more likely coming out of a DO school. Your choice.
 
naturally selected said:
Aptitude? I feel like that was kinda a low blow. I came here for advice because I'm struggling. I am not in this for letters after my name. But it just seems like a reality that as of now DO is limited in terms of what specialty and such. Again this what not meant to be a battle between the two degrees. I really respect your opinion but it's a little disappointing having you essentially say I am incapable...
Click to expand...

Thanks for proving me right that you actually haven't done your research. No specialty is 100% closed to DOs. Yes the surgical specialties and things like Derm and Rad Onc are much more difficult as a DO but you have to be a top notch medical student to get those as an MD. No MD just waltzes into those either. Just going off of statistics your chances of going to a prestigious ENT residency are minimal either way. (Just an example). I'm not saying you should just go for DO and forget MD. Do everything you can to attempt to secure an MD acceptance but you also need to be realistic and realize at this point that it might come down to being a DO or not being a physician.

Beggars can't be choosers in your situation unfortunately.
 
LizzyM said:
What specialties are closed to DOs?

You may have the aptitude for medical school but it may be a DO school. If your attitude is that you have to go to MD or else not go at all, then you may have what it takes to get into a Caribbean school and you may even have the aptitude to graduate from such a school with the MD. What you may not have is an easy path to licensure in the US which would be far, far more likely coming out of a DO school. Your choice.
Click to expand...

AnatomyGrey12 said:
Thanks for proving me right that you actually haven't done your research. No specialty is 100% closed to DOs. Yes the surgical specialties and things like Derm and Rad Onc are much more difficult as a DO but you have to be a top notch medical student to get those as an MD. No MD just waltzes into those either. Just going off of statistics your chances of going to a prestigious ENT residency are minimal either way. (Just an example). I'm not saying you should just go for DO and forget MD. Do everything you can to attempt to secure an MD acceptance but you also need to be realistic and realize at this point that it might come down to being a DO or not being a physician.

Beggars can't be choosers in your situation unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Clearly I shouldn't have posted here. Sorry for wasting everyones time.
 
It's the somewhat blatant arrogance in your posts that everyone is reacting badly to. If you had a 3.8 sGPA and a 515+ MCAT saying you would only apply to MD schools, fine, that's your choice, you could probably get by with that based on stats and normal ECs alone. But in your situation being very possibly borderline for most MDs and some DOs even, it comes off that you are only after certain letters after your name. I'm sorry this was the response to your first post here...
 
What do you mean catching a break in your classes? Also keep in mind with gunning for MD that you'll need a good MCAT score to have some consideration, and if you're having trouble in bio/physics classes now that test will bury you. It's a beast and you definitely need to have a solid understanding of the core subjects to do well. Just food for thought.
 
meditative_premed said:
It's the somewhat blatant arrogance in your posts that everyone is reacting badly to. If you had a 3.8 sGPA and a 515+ MCAT saying you would only apply to MD schools, fine, that's your choice, you could probably get by with that based on stats and normal ECs alone. But in your situation being very possibly borderline for most MDs and some DOs even, it comes off that you are only after certain letters after your name. I'm sorry this was the response to your first post here...
Click to expand...

I agree but I'm pretty sure someone with a 3.8 GPA and 515+ MCAT would be yield protected by DO schools, which would feel they were being used as backup safeties for MD schools. So applying DO in that case may actually be a disadvantage regardless of the applicant's personal interests with OMM etc.
 
Lawper said:
I agree but I'm pretty sure someone with a 3.8 GPA and 515+ MCAT would be yield protected by DO schools, which would feel they were being used as backup safeties for MD schools. So applying DO in that case may actually be a disadvantage regardless of the applicant's personal interests with OMM etc.
Click to expand...

Actually you would be surprised. My friend with those exact numbers was accepted 4 days after his interiew at the one DO school he applied to. A number of the DO schools will accept candidates like this on the off chance they slip through the cracks on the MD side.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Actually you would be surprised. My friend with those exact numbers was accepted 4 days after his interiew at the one DO school he applied to. A number of the DO schools will accept candidates like this on the off chance they slip through the cracks on the MD side.
Click to expand...

What? DO schools accept applicants with 3.8+/515+? That is surprising especially since many lower tier MD schools will have no problems yield protecting strong applicants regardless of their interests in these schools.

If anything, it gives an even stronger reason to apply DO if yield protection isn't a problem.
 
Lawper said:
What? DO schools accept applicants with 3.8+/515+? That is surprising especially since many lower tier MD schools will have no problems yield protecting strong applicants regardless of their interests in these schools.

If anything, it gives an even stronger reason to apply DO if yield protection isn't a problem.
Click to expand...

And if the hefty non-refundable deposit isn't a problem... If you are a hot prospect, they will interview you early and give you a 2 -week, take it or leave it offer and require a non-refundable deposit.
 
LizzyM said:
And if the hefty non-refundable deposit isn't a problem... If you are a hot prospect, they will interview you early and give you a 2 -week, take it or leave it offer and require a non-refundable deposit.
Click to expand...

Still a far far better deal than getting completely ignored/rejected by lower tier MD schools just because the stats are too high.
 
My school will gladly interview and take someone with these stats (and we have too).


Lawper said:
What? DO schools accept applicants with 3.8+/515+? That is surprising especially since many lower tier MD schools will have no problems yield protecting strong applicants regardless of their interests in these schools.

If anything, it gives an even stronger reason to apply DO if yield protection isn't a problem.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
My school will gladly interview and take someone with these stats (and we have too).
Click to expand...

Good to hear! I think in this case, I would personally be happy to choose a DO school over a lower tier MD school, simply because the DO school was interested enough to offer me an interview regardless of the high stats, and I would get to learn more about the school. Sure there could be a penalty for turning down the DO acceptance, but I think it's fair.
 
Dr. Death said:
Typical SDN. Somebody comes on saying "I'm not good at college but I'm only gunning for MD cuz I wantz competitive surgical subspecialty. Once I get at med school I'll go from being a mediocre college student to rockstar med student"
Click to expand...

I never hear the term "gunning for MD" from the 3.9/520 applicants.... :shrug:
 
PossibleDOC? said:
What has made you so against DO? standing right now from all of the research I have done on these forums it appears that DO MAY be your best shot as of now
Click to expand...
Some people don't want their opportunities for specialties limited.
 
Dr. Death said:
Typical SDN. Somebody comes on saying "I'm not good at college but I'm only gunning for MD cuz I wantz competitive surgical subspecialty. Once I get at med school I'll go from being a mediocre college student to rockstar med student"
Click to expand...
Typical SDN user, "I make fun of people online."
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Typical SDN posts for someone who joined in Monday....
Click to expand...
Stereotypical buffoon making presumptions on my account's age. I didn't like my last username, so I made a new one.

Stop making fun of people asking for help; it's annoying and immature.
 
Revival said:
Some people don't want their opportunities for specialties limited.
Click to expand...
Some people are idiots. You are apparently one of them if you think OPs best chance at becoming a doctor is to get into an MD school given his timeline and stats.
 
laughingfrog said:
I disagree with mistafab.. I think OP is being realistic given the current trajectory. OP you can look into podiatry as another option
Click to expand...
How wonderful, he can be your podiatrist. Maybe he will think your ankle can spin 360% and then blame it on not fully grasping Newton's Third Law of Motion.
 
Dr. Death said:
Some people are idiots. You are apparently one of them if you think OPs best chance at becoming a doctor is to get into an MD school given his timeline and stats.
Click to expand...
"OPs best chance at becoming a doctor is to get into an MD school given his timeline and stats" I never said that. Whenever I feel stupid, I compare myself to individuals like yourself. It makes me feel better. Good luck becoming a doctor with that intelligence.
 
Revival said:
Stereotypical buffoon making presumptions on my account's age. I didn't like my last username, so I made a new one.

Stop making fun of people asking for help; it's annoying and immature.
Click to expand...

Nobody made fun of someone asking for help. Please quote whatever it is that is annoying you. Keep it up tho 👍
 
wut, you're not even competitive for DO schools lol
 
Last edited:
Revival said:
"OPs best chance at becoming a doctor is to get into an MD school given his timeline and stats" I never said that. Good luck becoming a doctor with that intelligence.
Click to expand...
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Nobody made fun of someone asking for help. Please quote whatever it is that is annoying you. Keep it up tho 👍
Click to expand...
SDN gets worst everyday; it's just idiot after idiot.
 
naturally selected said:
Aptitude? I feel like that was kinda a low blow. I came here for advice because I'm struggling. I am not in this for letters after my name. But it just seems like a reality that as of now DO is limited in terms of what specialty and such. Again this what not meant to be a battle between the two degrees. I really respect your opinion but it's a little disappointing having you essentially say I am incapable...
Click to expand...

And so your solution is to not be a doctor at all? You have a 0% chance of matching into a selective specialty if you decide being a podiatrist is better than DO. People are reacting badly because you're a snobby beggar. If you want to turn your nose up at DOs you have to earn it.

But if you're so hell-bent on MD or bust, LizzyM's right, Caribbean is your best shot.
 
Since the warning to keep the discussion civil was ignored, this thread is now closed.

I'd like to direct attention to the sticky at the top of pre-allo (https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/anonymity-bedside-manners-and-sdn-membership.1176729/) which states:

"But with anonymity comes unique behaviors. The first is trolling – our members don’t tolerate it and trolls are reported and banned quickly. The second is “painful truth.” In an anonymous setting, you may hear truth that nobody else will share with you in person. Truth can sometimes hurt. Painful truth should not be confused with trolling."

OP, if you're still reading this, you received feedback and advice from some of SDN's top advisors. Part of the appeal and value of SDN is receiving honest, experienced advice that you might not get from someone in person or someone who doesn't want to risk hurting your feelings.
 
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