Attendings with a temper

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

topwise

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
296
Reaction score
1
My cousin is a med student and asked me for advice with this: He has an attending who yells at him all the time for no good reason... just very temperamental. I told him to ignore it, but this is a specialty he's interested in and he's freaking out a lot. Any other advice I can pass on?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Personally, I would be wary about confronting an attending. In cases where this has happened at my institution we have been told to report unprofessional behavior to our clerkship director. I think that would be an appropriate response, which after investigation would prevent that kind of behavior from happening to future students, and also to document that this attending may be consistently giving lower marks to students. Directly confronting the attending may lead to compromise of the student's grade without any recourse for him. In general, I have not seen these situations play out well for students upon confrontation - as unfair as that is.

Best case scenario is that this attending is just testing the student's character, or is like this with everyone but still evaluates fairly. I have definitely had attendings treat me poorly but at the end of the rotation said I performed superiorly, or just not remembered me at all and asked the residents to evaluate me. Being that I'm in a more 'malignant' part of the country, as far as surgery goes, attendings have also commented on 'ability to perform under pressure' after engaging myself and other students in somewhat similar behavior to what your cousin is experiencing.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yeah, I can't even imagine trying to confront an attending. Maybe a temperamental resident, but definitely not an attending.

(FYI: This is not a surgical attending, although I can see why you might assume that.)
 
Directly confronting the attending may lead to compromise of the student's grade without any recourse for him.
I hate this attitude so much. You're really willing to let yourself get walked all over for a grade? **** that. I'm not saying you have to yell at the guy. There are ways to express your displeasure with someone without starting a verbal war or being a douche. In any event, you should absolutely inform the appropriate administrator (course director, dean of students, etc.) of your problem.
 
I hate this attitude so much. You're really willing to let yourself get walked all over for a grade? **** that. I'm not saying you have to yell at the guy. There are ways to express your displeasure with someone without starting a verbal war or being a douche. In any event, you should absolutely inform the appropriate administrator (course director, dean of students, etc.) of your problem.

I didn't say I liked it! Lol. I can only speak for my experiences, but I have never seen it allow for a student to do well on a clerkship, even if the attending then laid off them.

I think that we are human and that medical school is a job like any other. In the workforce there are good and bad bosses. When I was working in finance it would be career suicide to tell your boss they were 'unfair,' and human resources was appropriate recourse at times of gross misconduct. I have basically seen the same thing play out in medical school.
 
Yeah, I can't even imagine trying to confront an attending. Maybe a temperamental resident, but definitely not an attending.

(FYI: This is not a surgical attending, although I can see why you might assume that.)

Lol! I guess it says something that I thought it was a surgical attending. And I'm going into surgery... hehe
 
I'd stand up to the attending. There's no reason he should take abuse.

man, your advice has been way off lately ...first you tell someone to "tell" their attending that they're leaving early the day before thanksgiving rather than ask and now you're advocating confronting an attending. i really hope you were joking both times

the best way to go about it would be to either try and avoid that attending if you can, don't get an eval from him if you have the choice and/or tell the clerkship or site director
 
man, your advice has been way off lately ...first you tell someone to "tell" their attending that they're leaving early the day before thanksgiving rather than ask and now you're advocating confronting an attending. i really hope you were joking both times

the best way to go about it would be to either try and avoid that attending if you can, don't get an eval from him if you have the choice and/or tell the clerkship or site director
Considering that I've done both without any problems, I'm not terribly worried about advising others to do the same. It's a matter of tact, man. When leaving, tell people ahead of time that you're going to be gone on a certain day. When you're getting verbally mauled, meet with the person in private, and explain your position in a calm, non-accusatory manner. Maybe I shouldn't be recommending things that require people skills to people notorious for not having people skills, but it's sound advice in the general sense. It's certainly better than "just take it because your grade may depend on it."
 
Considering that I've done both without any problems, I'm not terribly worried about advising others to do the same. It's a matter of tact, man. When leaving, tell people ahead of time that you're going to be gone on a certain day. When you're getting verbally mauled, meet with the person in private, and explain your position in a calm, non-accusatory manner. Maybe I shouldn't be recommending things that require people skills to people notorious for not having people skills, but it's sound advice in the general sense. It's certainly better than "just take it because your grade may depend on it."

getting away with something once doesn't suddenly make it sage advice. also it has nothing to do with tact. you have no idea how each individual will react so the best thing to do is to play it safe every time.
 
Okay, I should rephrase, then. Every time I have a vacation or need to go somewhere (interviews, mostly), I say "I'm flying to x on this day, so I'll need to leave by y time." It has never been a problem. I have only done the attending thing once, and it wasn't a big deal at all. Tact is gauging how people will react act behaving accordingly, so yes, it is about tact - exclusively so.
 
likely the attending is not yelling but the student is interpreting his mannerisms or tone as yelling or being condescending where another student would not. I have seen this kinda stuff so many times it now is funny to me. If the student thinks there is a problem it should be discussed with the rotation director.

I agree with this.

It's amazing to me how freely students use the term "a-hole" or "d-bag" or "rude" to describe a fellow student, another resident, or an attending. I'm convinced that majority of med students don't have a thick skin, are too sensitive, and can't tell the difference between an "aggressive" personality and somebody who is truly malicious and wants the students to roll over and die.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I agree with this.

It's amazing to me how freely students use the term "a-hole" or "d-bag" or "rude" to describe a fellow student, another resident, or an attending. I'm convinced that majority of med students don't have a thick skin, are too sensitive, and can't tell the difference between an "aggressive" personality and somebody who is truly malicious and wants the students to roll over and die.

I don't know how many attendings are truly malicious, but I do think there are attendings who do yell and lose their temper a lot. And they do not act that way around colleagues or their bosses, only to underlings who have no recourse and just have to take it.
 
I don't know how many attendings are truly malicious, but I do think there are attendings who do yell and lose their temper a lot. And they do not act that way around colleagues or their bosses, only to underlings who have no recourse and just have to take it.

Then it's really that attending's personal problem that they feel the need to humiliate med students in order to feel better about themselves.

I actually pity these type of people, rather than get angry at them. At the end of the day, gotta let these things roll off your back like water on a duck...
 
make sure that douche doesn't evaluate you. try your best to not work with that person
 
Then it's really that attending's personal problem that they feel the need to humiliate med students in order to feel better about themselves.

I actually pity these type of people, rather than get angry at them. At the end of the day, gotta let these things roll off your back like water on a duck...
while i agree with you, that attending is still making the student miserable...it's a little hard to ignore it if you have to put up with the same crap for a couple weeks. not to mention, you won't learn jack
 
while i agree with you, that attending is still making the student miserable...it's a little hard to ignore it if you have to put up with the same crap for a couple weeks. not to mention, you won't learn jack

I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't do anything about it. As suggested before, go to your clerkship director or discuss it calmly with the attending privately. So you're right, don't ignore it.

But my point was having a proper attitude (i.e. not let it bother you) is so vital and necessary if you want to maintain sanity and humility.

The students I run across who are always complaining about an a-hole attending or a d-bag resident are generally miserable, hard to please people who will drag you down in their pit of self-pity and misery if you let them.
 
Then it's really that attending's personal problem that they feel the need to humiliate med students in order to feel better about themselves.

I actually pity these type of people, rather than get angry at them. At the end of the day, gotta let these things roll off your back like water on a duck...
Yeah, I hardly even notice a lot of these attitudes any more. I only feel bad when I know I did something wrong, and something bad could or did happen. I don't even feel like I'm really tough or have a thick skin, but then I hear that so-and-so surgeon made the nurses cry, and I don't even think they're that intimidating.
 
Okay, I should rephrase, then. Every time I have a vacation or need to go somewhere (interviews, mostly), I say "I'm flying to x on this day, so I'll need to leave by y time." It has never been a problem. I have only done the attending thing once, and it wasn't a big deal at all. Tact is gauging how people will react act behaving accordingly, so yes, it is about tact - exclusively so.

Things are different when you're a 4th year.
 
The main thing is to show that you are not affected or don't care what they say when they yell. If someone "yells" or something, I don't look scared, I just don't pay attention to their existence. I see aggressive personalities and those are ok, but someone who is overall mean loses respect from me, and it's best when you can either:

A) Give evals to people
B) Know they don't grade you

That way, it's easier to "troll" them.
 
I had a mean attending who I think just wanted someone to pick on, he didn't yell but would always make snarky, belittling comments. It wasn't big enough to warrant going to the admin, and I always think having a private sit-down conversation with someone about their behavior, no matter how tactfully done, is confrontational and rarely ends well. I figured I would just stick it out, so every time he said something, I would apologize and rephrase what he said so he realized how unreasonable he was being. For instance, one day after a long case with him I went in the resident's lounge to get some water. He came in and saw me and said, "why are you in here, you should go help the intern if you have nothing else to do". My response, "I am going to help the intern right now, I am sorry I didn't realize he needed me urgently or else I wouldn't have taken a water break". He said "oh it's fine to take a water break and get a snack, just go help when you're done". I don't know if it changed anything on my eval, haven't gotten them back yet.
 
I had a mean attending who I think just wanted someone to pick on, he didn't yell but would always make snarky, belittling comments. It wasn't big enough to warrant going to the admin, and I always think having a private sit-down conversation with someone about their behavior, no matter how tactfully done, is confrontational and rarely ends well. I figured I would just stick it out, so every time he said something, I would apologize and rephrase what he said so he realized how unreasonable he was being. For instance, one day after a long case with him I went in the resident's lounge to get some water. He came in and saw me and said, "why are you in here, you should go help the intern if you have nothing else to do". My response, "I am going to help the intern right now, I am sorry I didn't realize he needed me urgently or else I wouldn't have taken a water break". He said "oh it's fine to take a water break and get a snack, just go help when you're done". I don't know if it changed anything on my eval, haven't gotten them back yet.


I agree with you and think you handled that as best as you probably could.

I have a concept of "falling with resistance" that I generally like to use in these situations. Like if I were getting a snide comment about where I went college, "X, hmm, I haven't heard of it? I guess you weren't a good enough student in high school." I generally respond with something like, "*chuckle* yeah, my mom tried to disown me for it, but she realized she needed someone to take care of her when she got old." After a couple interactions like this, when they see you're not getting rattled and are even somewhat humorous, they tend to change their interaction. I can only speak for surgical attendings, but I think they respect tackling something like this head on and gracefully.
 
I agree with you and think you handled that as best as you probably could.

I have a concept of "falling with resistance" that I generally like to use in these situations. Like if I were getting a snide comment about where I went college, "X, hmm, I haven't heard of it? I guess you weren't a good enough student in high school." I generally respond with something like, "*chuckle* yeah, my mom tried to disown me for it, but she realized she needed someone to take care of her when she got old." After a couple interactions like this, when they see you're not getting rattled and are even somewhat humorous, they tend to change their interaction. I can only speak for surgical attendings, but I think they respect tackling something like this head on and gracefully.
Just say "It's incredibly expensive. I'm sure you couldn't afford it anyway."

You've gotta out d-bag the d-bag.
 
Things are different when you're a 4th year.
True. I didn't have any issues last year, though. :shrug:

We are told to never schedule anything that would get us out of clinic duties early (doctor's appts have some pull though) because we will never be excused from the administration. Ever. Now maybe you can try with your team but the admins wouldn't be too happy if they found out and likely your team would not be extremely happy, even as a 3rd year.
I'm confident that's the official stance at every school.
 
My cousin is a med student and asked me for advice with this: He has an attending who yells at him all the time for no good reason... just very temperamental. I told him to ignore it, but this is a specialty he's interested in and he's freaking out a lot. Any other advice I can pass on?

Threaten the attendings life/family.
 
I'd stand up to the attending. There's no reason he should take abuse.

I hate this attitude so much. You're really willing to let yourself get walked all over for a grade? **** that. I'm not saying you have to yell at the guy. There are ways to express your displeasure with someone without starting a verbal war or being a douche. In any event, you should absolutely inform the appropriate administrator (course director, dean of students, etc.) of your problem.

Please ignore the above-quoted advice. As students, you need to choose your battles wisely. We have all had revenge fantasies about standing up to rude attendings/residents/nurses/scrub techs, and saying something brilliant and articulate that makes us look like a bad @#s......

....but in real life, you need to be mature and calm, and turn the other cheek to most people's bad behavior. I promise that as cool as it sounds, standing up to these types of people is generally not a good idea. If they are miserable people, they will eventually reap what they sow.
 
I agree about picking battles, but if this guy is actually getting yelled at, that's unacceptable and a battle worth picking, in my opinion. To each his own, though. I'm clearly in the minority, here, so more power to you guys.
 
I agree about picking battles, but if this guy is actually getting yelled at, that's unacceptable and a battle worth picking, in my opinion. To each his own, though. I'm clearly in the minority, here, so more power to you guys.

Definitely agree. I still don't understand why yelling is occasionally tolerated in medicine. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of the attendings have never known anything but medicine, and think it is an acceptable way to act.
 
I'm sorry. I'm supposed to give honest responses. The people above covered it really well, but I can tell you that if anyone is getting bitched out without good reason (and I had an incident of that myself, thankfully with an intern, not anyone higher up the totem pole) you need to figure out who the most appropriate superior is. You should address the issue with the superior in a formal manner. I prefer to address it as "I have a concern that this is limiting my educational opportunities. Does this seem abnormal to you?".

This is especially true for attendings where a lot of the time they are much more valuable than you so a strong amount of diplomacy is needed and maybe some administrative switch-arounds, and thats why supervisors exist. If its only an intern, like my case, you can have many more options as to how to address it. With attendings? Don't screw around. Defend yourself, but be aware that defending yourself directly could cause you more pain in the long run. Going through the appropriate channels is almost always the best choice and gives you some bit of protection from recompense.
 
Please ignore the above-quoted advice. As students, you need to choose your battles wisely. We have all had revenge fantasies about standing up to rude attendings/residents/nurses/scrub techs, and saying something brilliant and articulate that makes us look like a bad @#s......

....but in real life, you need to be mature and calm, and turn the other cheek to most people's bad behavior. I promise that as cool as it sounds, standing up to these types of people is generally not a good idea. If they are miserable people, they will eventually reap what they sow.
Although once in a while, when you're passing through a department at a hospital you won't be rotating at again, it's nice not to take s#it from somebody who is really in no position to be dishing it (I was literally being scolded for using the wrong phone, when it was at a completely empty desk).
 
Although once in a while, when you're passing through a department at a hospital you won't be rotating at again, it's nice not to take s#it from somebody who is really in no position to be dishing it (I was literally being scolded for using the wrong phone, when it was at a completely empty desk).

Agreed. Reminds me of when I did OB at a out-of-state hospital and this particular scrub nurse thought I was mentally ******ed and physically challenged because I got the elementary lecture on how to scrub properly, how far apart to stand from non-sterile areas, where to put my hand on the sterile drapes (she took my hands and shifted them couple inches), etc.

The problem was that I had been there for 3 weeks now and she had definitely seen me scrubbed in before.

Anyway, make a long story short she told me to move my hands few inches up and closer to my chest while scrubbed and waiting for drapes to be put on. I said, "Really? Moving my hands couple inches is really gonna make a difference, never mind that my hands are already near my chest where they need to be?"...as I proceeded to do the back-and-forth motion of moving my hands from where they were to where she wanted them.

The entire OR was quiet and there was a pindrop silence. I instantly felt guilty because I didn't want to put her on the spot like that. But then she apologized and realized that I had an average IQ and am a functioning adult.

I generally respect authority and people who are far more experienced than me. But experience does not always translate to maturity, as we all know. And medical students deserve some basic respect like not assuming we're all 5 years old.

Sometimes, you gotta demand respect. As medical students, those times are few and far between.
 
Although once in a while, when you're passing through a department at a hospital you won't be rotating at again, it's nice not to take s#it from somebody who is really in no position to be dishing it....

Agreed. Reminds me of when I did OB at a out-of-state hospital....

That's fine, but those are both examples of revenge fantasies. I think we've all sat there and brooded over a previous interaction that we didn't like, be it with a condescending scrub tech, b@#chy OR nurse, or an unfair chief resident with misplaced confidence in his wrong answer. We've all thought of something clever, witty, and intelligent to say (in hindsight of course) to shoot them down and establish our intellectual superiority.

Sometimes, we live out these fantasies and it goes well....but that is the vast minority of the time. I just don't think medical students have enough experience to be able to tell when their revenge fantasy is truly justified. More importantly, I don't think they can determine when it's truly consequence-free. They may think it won't affect them, but their bad behavior can come back to bite them unexpectedly.

I think students are impressionable, and the only way to prevent revenge fantasies from playing out is to lead by example. Be the bigger person, and then when you're finally in a position to dish it out, break the cycle of antagonism and act normal instead of being a punk to the next generation of students. I guarantee that most of these people who suck, be it scrub tech/nurse/resident/attending/whatever, had revenge fantasies of their own when they were lower on the totem pole, and it ultimately contributed to their currently crappy personalities.

That being said, when you are in a position of power, and you are a passive witness to this bad behavior toward students or residents, I think it's your responsibility to stand up for the poor bastards.
 
I'm not talking about belittling someone or putting them in their place. I'm just saying you don't have to take trash talk from someone. In the situation I was referring to, I'd initially apologized, but then I just walked away while she was still blustering about me using the wrong phone.
 
Definitely agree. I still don't understand why yelling is occasionally tolerated in medicine. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of the attendings have never known anything but medicine, and think it is an acceptable way to act.

Because you're told to "pick your battles" and you end up realizing that by that philosophy, there are no battles you could possibly pick and the same people keep getting ****ed in the ass by the same attendings year after year.
Unfortunately, some people think its they duty to treat med students poorly to "strengthen them". These people are d-bags.

The sad part is, when the victims of this abuse become attendings themselves, they buddy up with these same *******s and forget all the abuse they recieved from them. I accompanied an new attending friend of mine to a bbq at the home of a senior attending who had made this poor girl cry more than once when she was a resident. I was like: so now that you're colleagues, all is forgiven? I could never do that. I have way to much venom in my heart.
 
I'd stand up to the attending. There's no reason he should take abuse.

This is not good advice. Never confront an attending, you will always, always lose. In fact, if you rock the boat, you're probably going to lose, and you won't escape without taking a big dose of humility in one way or another in addition to your current humiliation.

If your pride is more important, talk to someone directly affiliated with your school, preferably NOT your clerkship director. Often its the clerkship directors who are the problem, and times that its not the clerkship director will be close with said temperamental attending and you do not want to rock the boat. Find someone who is very sympathetic to students and who has been with you since you were a 1st year, look to the Dean of student affairs.

If your grades are more important, suck it up and tough it out. Nothing will earn you an A faster than continuing to work hard in a hostile environment. Most likely, your hard work will not go unnoticed and you will be rewarded for it.

It may seem archaic or juvenile, but being a b***h is part of being a 3rd year medical student, it doesn't matter how you slice it or where you go to school. If you don't like it, don't be the same way when you're a resident or attending.

EDIT: Let me reiterate, do NOT take this problem to your clerkship director first unless you absolutely trust him/her without a shadow of a doubt. When you involve a clerkship director you're causing problems for his or her show and they will most likely NOT be looking out for your best interests.
 
Last edited:
Nothing will earn you an A faster than continuing to work hard in a hostile environment. Most likely, your hard work will not go unnoticed and you will be rewarded for it.
Or you could still work hard but in a less oppressive environment and still get that A. I also don't buy that "hard work in a hostile environment" earns you any brownie points since the person evaluating you is the one making the environment hostile. It's not like it's a month-long stress interview that you get kudos for surviving; the attending is just a douche.

Because you're told to "pick your battles" and you end up realizing that by that philosophy, there are no battles you could possibly pick and the same people keep getting ****ed in the ass by the same attendings year after year.
Thank you.

One thing nobody has really touched on in this thread is that people like the attending the OP seems to be describing walk on others because they can. If you fight back, they'll ease off a bit. We have several attending here, at UAMS, who fit that description. Mind you, that's not the approach I'm advocating - just an observation.
 
Best thing you can do in a situation where a so-called superior is giving you humiliating kicks to the crotch is:

Walk away.

It's not unprofessional, its not mean, its not fighting fire with fire. The fact of the matter is that when someone yells and screams at you and throws insults your way, you have the option to not have to listen to it.

This works best if you do it the first time it happens. That way the douchebag knows your tolerance for BS is low and will dial it down accordingly.
 
It's not like it's a month-long stress interview that you get kudos for surviving; the attending is just a douche.
That's exactly what it is. If youre attending is being a douche that means that he was probably treated the same way as a medical student. Theres still a huge, huge group of old school attendings who believe in the old hazing system and "toughing you up". If you suck it up and tough it out your attending will most likely take notice and reward you on your eval. It's been a recurring theme at my school. I can't exactly put it to words, but theres something about not "rocking the boat" and not causing a splash that will carry you a long way 3rd and 4th year. When you complain about anything, even if justified, you get the label as a "complainer" and you will suffer for it, theres no way around it. No good deed goes unpunished.

I respect your opinion and thoroughly appreciate that you probably want to see change in the way 3rd and 4th years are treated, but thats our job in 2 years when we're the residents and future attendings.
 
It's been a recurring theme at my school.
Worst med school ever. You probably had PBL the first two years, too, I'm assuming. 😛 In any event, if you're willing to sacrifice your dignity for a grade, more power to you. That isn't and will never be me.
 
Worst med school ever. You probably had PBL the first two years, too, I'm assuming. 😛 In any event, if you're willing to sacrifice your dignity for a grade, more power to you. That isn't and will never be me.
agreed
 
Theres still a huge, huge group of old school attendings who believe in the old hazing system and "toughing you up". If you suck it up and tough it out your attending will most likely take notice and reward you on your eval.

It didn't work out that way for me. My malignant family practice attending dinged me for inconsistent clinical performance -- a direct result of the performance anxiety he induced in me with his personality -- despite the fact that I never complained and never stopped working hard, staying interested, and learning.

I reject the notion that flawless performance under the scrutiny of a supervisor who aims to break you is a good test of fitness for this profession. There is no lack of psychologically and interpersonally challenging situations in the clinical years of med school, whose challenging nature supervenes upon the end goal of serving patients in an efficient and appropriate manner. There are many people who can rise to the task and handle such situations with grace and aplomb, but see a big difference between this and wanton and ad hoc meanness. Do such people not deserve to be doctors just because they didn't "take their licks"?

I respect your opinion and thoroughly appreciate that you probably want to see change in the way 3rd and 4th years are treated, but thats our job in 2 years when we're the residents and future attendings.

Indeed, I plan on being vocal about this once I'm an attending, because it's something I feel strongly about. If I hear colleagues talking casually about treating students harshly, I won't have a problem piping up and saying, "I think that's uncalled for."

As for the attending who treated (and evaluated) me badly, since he's a vocal and somewhat well-known politician in the medical world, my revenge fantasy is to advertise my feigned interest in some project or cause that I know he's big into, wait for him to solicit my help and get his hopes up, and then reject him coldly, preferably out loud and in front of as many people as possible.
 
That's exactly what it is. If youre attending is being a douche that means that he was probably treated the same way as a medical student. Theres still a huge, huge group of old school attendings who believe in the old hazing system and "toughing you up". If you suck it up and tough it out your attending will most likely take notice and reward you on your eval. It's been a recurring theme at my school. I can't exactly put it to words, but theres something about not "rocking the boat" and not causing a splash that will carry you a long way 3rd and 4th year. When you complain about anything, even if justified, you get the label as a "complainer" and you will suffer for it, theres no way around it. No good deed goes unpunished.

I respect your opinion and thoroughly appreciate that you probably want to see change in the way 3rd and 4th years are treated, but thats our job in 2 years when we're the residents and future attendings.

I don't disagree, and I'm more on the "call an assh*le an assh*le" side of the argument, but I'm just glad that there's a shift in medicine towards the sorts of people who value balanced lives, etc., more than the old guard did. Should help clean up some of this nonsense.
 
It didn't work out that way for me. My malignant family practice attending dinged me for inconsistent clinical performance -- a direct result of the performance anxiety he induced in me with his personality -- despite the fact that I never complained and never stopped working hard, staying interested, and learning.

I reject the notion that flawless performance under the scrutiny of a supervisor who aims to break you is a good test of fitness for this profession. There is no lack of psychologically and interpersonally challenging situations in the clinical years of med school, whose challenging nature supervenes upon the end goal of serving patients in an efficient and appropriate manner. There are many people who can rise to the task and handle such situations with grace and aplomb, but see a big difference between this and wanton and ad hoc meanness. Do such people not deserve to be doctors just because they didn't "take their licks"?

Indeed, I plan on being vocal about this once I'm an attending, because it's something I feel strongly about. If I hear colleagues talking casually about treating students harshly, I won't have a problem piping up and saying, "I think that's uncalled for."

As for the attending who treated (and evaluated) me badly, since he's a vocal and somewhat well-known politician in the medical world, my revenge fantasy is to advertise my feigned interest in some project or cause that I know he's big into, wait for him to solicit my help and get his hopes up, and then reject him coldly, preferably out loud and in front of as many people as possible.

Your revenge fantasy sounds pretty childish and very passive-aggressive.

Develop a thicker skin and forget about the guy. Be bulletproof.
 
Your revenge fantasy sounds pretty childish and very passive-aggressive.

I said revenge fantasy, chief. Not revenge plan.

Develop a thicker skin and forget about the guy. Be bulletproof.

Your advice sounds pretty canned and very misunderstanding of my last post. I'll say it again but more concisely: I see no practical reason why people who don't abide abusive bosses ought to be selected out of this profession. Being sensitive can be an asset for quite a number of tasks that doctors do.
 
Top