audition rotations...worthless for helping you match?

[flipflopsnsnow]

just read some comments on another thread that talked about how audition rotations wont really help you match. is this true? why is this the first time i am hearing this?? s

any info out there would be helpful!!!

here is what i read on other threads:
"People tend to overestimate the power of electives (audition rotations) on their chances of matching at a particular program. It is kind of odd, but at least in my field it doesn't seem to make such a big difference in peoples chances."

"I agree with this. Unless you happen to do an audition where you manage to be on the same team as the program director (the one month a year they're on service) or a member of the selction committee (which most places don't advertise the composition of), an away will have very little effect on your likelihood of matching."

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[BigBadBix]

just read some comments on another thread that talked about how audition rotations wont really help you match. is this true? why is this the first time i am hearing this?? s

any info out there would be helpful!!!

This seems like one of those things that completely depends on the specialty, the program, etc., but I believe my audition rotation was a major reason that I matched at my #1 (in internal medicine), and the same is true for some friends of mine who matched at top-notch IM programs. I don't think you *must* do an away rotation to match at these places, but I think it does really help. Just my $0.02, I'm sure you'll hear all kinds of opinions on this.

-BBB

 

[RxnMan]

just read some comments on another thread that talked about how audition rotations wont really help you match. is this true? why is this the first time i am hearing this?? s

any info out there would be helpful!!!

here is what i read on other threads:
"People tend to overestimate the power of electives (audition rotations) on their chances of matching at a particular program. It is kind of odd, but at least in my field it doesn't seem to make such a big difference in peoples chances."

"I agree with this. Unless you happen to do an audition where you manage to be on the same team as the program director (the one month a year they're on service) or a member of the selction committee (which most places don't advertise the composition of), an away will have very little effect on your likelihood of matching."

The ortho residents I've spoken to say that they haven't taken a person that hasn't done an audition rotation at their program in years. I don't think they've even interveiwed anyone that hasn't auditioned. Then again, they have 400+ applications for 4 spots. Competitiveness of the program is probably the deciding factor.

 

[P Diddy]

just read some comments on another thread that talked about how audition rotations wont really help you match. is this true? why is this the first time i am hearing this?? s

I would not have even received an interview at my internal medicine program had I not done an audition rotation there. If you are enthusiastic and motivated, an audition interview can only help you. I recommend audition rotations for most people who are considering them.

That being said, auditions will help some applicants more than others. If you have a 260 Step 1, numerous publications and LoR from God, an audition may not provide much incremental benefit to your application. However, if you are a good all around candidate with nothing particularly outstanding, an audition rotation may make the difference in having your applicaiton remembered. Other situations where audiiton rotations may be helpful are for programs that haven't traditionally accepted applicants from your medical school (as was the case for me - no one had matched at my program from my med school in recorded history) or for specialties that are close knit 'clubs' that are hard to break into (ie neurosurg and rad onc).

It's also nice to see how another hospital works and to ensure that you are a good fit for a particular program, esp. if you're waffling bc of other reasons (not close to home, etc).

Reply or PM with questions.

p diddy

 

[sophiejane]

I think the general consensus is that if you do one and do well, it often helps. If you do one and do poorly (which I think you'd have to try pretty hard at, or get in fights with people or be a social ******), it can sink you.

 

[gutonc]

Let me also say (as one of the people quoted somewhat out of context and without attribution by the OP that an audition can be very helpful to you in terms of deciding whether you like a place. I did one audition at what I thought was going to be my #1 choice. I hated the hospital, thought most of the residents were either *****s or jackholes (liked the fellows but they all hated the program and couldn't wait to be gone). I ended up ranking the place 14 out of 15 on my ROL (just ahead of the place my wife promised to divorce me if we ended up but which was otherwise great). So in the end, my audition was very useful in showing me a place I didn't want to get stuck.

In some cases, if an audition gets you in a door for an audition that your numbers might not and you can wow them with the rest of your app then that's probably a good thing. As for the super competitive specialties, auditions are helpful, maybe even "required" but not guarantees. A friend of mine (AOA/PhD) did a Derm audition and met regularly with the program chair at her top choice and didn't even get an interview which just sucks.

YMMV of course but don't expect an audition rotation (even if you totally rock it) to be a free ticket into a program. That's all I'm saying.

BE (now PE)

 

[Luella]

I have yet to go through the process, so please correct any misguided nonsense, but here is some advice I've culled over the past year:

1. If you are a great applicant on paper, do not risk an audition rotation at your number one. If you clash with one person you're screwed. (*does not apply if, as mentioned above, you could use more exposure to determine whether it's your number one OR if the program has a history of accepting people who audition.)

2. If your numbers are a tad lower AND your number one gives courtesy interviews to all audtitioners AND you are an amazing interviewee (as evidenced by a high med school acceptance to interview ratio, not your mom's opinion), yes, for sure do an audition.

3. For most of the rest of us, it seems to be just as good to do an away rotation anywhere. It shows you are certain about your chosen specialty and adds another LOR. A good idea is to choose a place that is very different from you home school's hospital (urban v. rural, patient population, research v. clinical emphasis, etc.) so that you can learn something a little differently. I have also heard that the west coast and east coast have "different styles" of practicing medicine, but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[chicamedica]

If you're going to do an away rotation, do it more for the purpose of getting an "inside view" of a program you're strongly considering. Whether the elective helps you match, however, i believe is dependent upon several things, including the individual program's way of doing things, the connections you have, certain demographic characteristics that the program prioritizes, etc. Even if you shine and honor the elective, there is not always a guarantee you'll be ranked even. Just a friendly heads up from my experience last year.

 

[raspberry swirl]

im bumping this up as im hoping to get a few more opinions on this ... i wasn't planning on doing an audition rotation, reason #1 as i didnt think it was that necessary for something that wasn't too competitive (peds) and reason #2, im scared of messing things up ... but my bf freaked out and basically said i was ruining our chances of matching anywhere by my negligence (we're supposedly couples matching ...). so now i have the weight of our combined futures hanging on my decision to do an audition rotation. logistically its going to be a pain in the butt- its in a city i'd have to travel great lengths to, the whole thing seems inconvienent and expensive for little yield ... but he's got me all freaked out. im just looking for some more opinions on this .... i will add that while peds isnt overly competitive, ill be applying in an overall competitive city ...

 

[Nerdoscience]

I just don't think that there is a clear cut answer for you. Even in a given specialty, many people feel strongly one way or the other about away electives. I did an audition rotation, and ended up matching at that program. But doing the month there is the reason I ranked the program so high. I wouldn't have known beforehand that I would want to go there for sure.

Some programs expect you to do a month there before they will consider ranking you. Most don't care, but making connections almost never hurts. Why are you so scared of messing up? If you just go and do your thing to see another perspective on Peds in another institution, you will give an accurate picture to your attendings what you are like. If they don't like it, do you really want to go to that program anyway?

 

[RxnMan]

#2, im scared of messing things up ... but my bf freaked out and basically said i was ruining our chances of matching anywhere by my negligence (we're supposedly couples matching ...). so now i have the weight of our combined futures hanging on my decision to do an audition rotation.

He's got a lot of confidence in you! So much confidence that he's putting blame of not matching on your shoulders. If you guys break up, is that also your fault?

 

[outofhere]

But an audition rotation CAN hurt you.

Last year, we had some applicants who had great scores, publications, letters...etc, then they came. We realized that they were going to difficult to work with- big egos, refusing to learn...etc, and these people did not match...

 

[SiouxMD]

Obviously the rotation can either help or hurt you depending on your performance, attitude, etc. Do your best and you shouldn't have any problems.

I look at the rotation not so much as an "audition" but more as an opportunity to see if I like the place and would be a good fit. I did a couple of them and it was well worth it. You can learn a lot about a program in a month.

I had a classmate that did a peds rotation at OHSU and didn't get an interview. I've read on the Pediatrics Forum that pretty much everyone that rotates there at least gets a courtesy interview. I don't know what happened but it couldn't have been good.

 

[jennyboo]

It's field dependent, program dependent (some programs love taking rotators, others don't) and student dependent (average students tend to fare well by doing aways, but stellar students may or may not).

I did an away because I felt I needed an extra letter of recommendation for the specialty. I ended up matching at the program.

On the other hand, I did more than one away and what I thought was going to be my first choice program, turned out to be a program I hated.

The best thing about doing the rotation for me was getting a chance to see what different programs are like. There really are big differences between programs, which you can't appreciate until you see more than one.

 

[raspberry swirl]

He's got a lot of confidence in you! So much confidence that he's putting blame of not matching on your shoulders. If you guys break up, is that also your fault?

lol well i was probably exaggerating a little ... he and i have differing views on the importance of audition rotations ... we're both counting on each other in the couples match- he's doing the audition rotations and he's got the charming personality, while i've got the better scores (and i think i have a pretty nice personality ... ) we're hoping to strike a balance. although he did kinda freak out at me - 2 days before i took step II, giving me a near nervous breakdown ...