Auditions & Residency

[Stephanopolous]

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I'm thinking ahead and have a few questions.

Fourth year should be primarily focused on audition rotations for residency correct? So if many students apply to say 30+ residency programs,:

What is the goal number of sites to do different rotations at?

If you are interested in program x for residency, is there a suggested amount of time to rotate there? From what I understand most rotations are around 4 weeks.

I appreciate any insight!

Edit: my primary interest is EM

 

[67552931811]

I'm thinking ahead and have a few questions.

Fourth year should be primarily focused on audition rotations for residency correct? So if many students apply to say 30+ residency programs,:

What is the goal number of sites to do different rotations at?

If you are interested in program x for residency, is there a suggested amount of time to rotate there? From what I understand most rotations are around 4 weeks.

I appreciate any insight!

Audition rotations are really specialty dependent and also AOA/ ACGME dependent. The latter is of no consequence to you, however

 

[racerwad]

I'm thinking ahead and have a few questions.

Fourth year should be primarily focused on audition rotations for residency correct? So if many students apply to say 30+ residency programs,:

What is the goal number of sites to do different rotations at?

If you are interested in program x for residency, is there a suggested amount of time to rotate there? From what I understand most rotations are around 4 weeks.

I appreciate any insight!

Edit: my primary interest is EM

In AOA EM, the programs really value the rotation. In ACGME, they also value rotations, but they really love the SLOE. You can only get a SLOE if you rotate at a place w/ an ACGME EM program, so they also place value on the rotation. For ACGME, an audition seems less important to match at a specific place. Most ACGME programs require at least one, many two.

There are generally three types of programs: university, county, community. I rotated at one of each because I had no idea what type of program I wanted or what the differences were. I also wanted to get an idea of the place I may live in for 3 years.

IMHO, I think your list of audition sites should be like your ROL - some reach, some attainable, some safety places.

You should schedule your auditions early in fourth year to ensure that your SLOEs are in ERAS when the programs start downloading 9/15. You can certainly do an audition 3rd year, it's just tough for 3rd year students because many places don't take 3rd year students.

 

[SnowDoggy44]

In AOA EM, the programs really value the rotation. In ACGME, they also value rotations, but they really love the SLOE. You can only get a SLOE if you rotate at a place w/ an ACGME EM program, so they also place value on the rotation.

You can get a SLOE from a non-ACGME EM residency program.

 

[Dr. Death]

SLOE = Someone's Letter of Evaluation?

 

[SnowDoggy44]

SLOE = Someone's Letter of Evaluation?

SLOE= Standardized Letter of Evaluation
SLOR= Standardized Letter of Recommendation (term no longer used; replaced by SLOE)

 

[Dr. Death]

SLOE= Standardized Letter of Evaluation
SLOR= Standardized Letter of Recommendation (term no longer used; replaced by SLOE)

Ah ok thank you. And do these come from attendings on rotations?

 

[Stephanopolous]

In AOA EM, the programs really value the rotation. In ACGME, they also value rotations, but they really love the SLOE. You can only get a SLOE if you rotate at a place w/ an ACGME EM program, so they also place value on the rotation. For ACGME, an audition seems less important to match at a specific place. Most ACGME programs require at least one, many two.

There are generally three types of programs: university, county, community. I rotated at one of each because I had no idea what type of program I wanted or what the differences were. I also wanted to get an idea of the place I may live in for 3 years.

IMHO, I think your list of audition sites should be like your ROL - some reach, some attainable, some safety places.

You should schedule your auditions early in fourth year to ensure that your SLOEs are in ERAS when the programs start downloading 9/15. You can certainly do an audition 3rd year, it's just tough for 3rd year students because many places don't take 3rd year students.

This was very helpful thank you.

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Ah ok thank you. And do these come from attendings on rotations?

They come from faculty physicians at an EM residency program.

http://www.cordem.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3743

 

[racerwad]

You can get a SLOE from a non-ACGME EM residency program.

Absolutely. I never said you couldn't. It's just that AOA SLOEs are not as "useful" when applying to ACGME programs (and ACGME programs are the ones that require SLOEs universally, while most AOA programs do not require them, but will take them).

 

[SnowDoggy44]

Absolutely. I never said you couldn't. It's just that AOA SLOEs are not as "useful" when applying to ACGME programs (and ACGME programs are the ones that require SLOEs universally, while most AOA programs do not require them, but will take them).

You did say you couldn't. You literally wrote "You can only get a SLOE if you rotate at a place w/ an ACGME EM program".
Sorry, but I'm just trying to prevent the propagation of inaccurate information.

 

[Jlaw]

I'm a current 4th year out on auditions. Seems like most of my fellow students are doing 3-4 auditions with the less prepared doing 1-2 and then scrambling to get into trauma surgery or EM ultrasound that might give them some exposure to the ED. Ideally you should aim for 2-4 auditions between July and October, but the earlier the better as you want to shoot for two strong SLOE's before MD programs open. Apply to these auditions early, ideally as soon as they open on VSAS, which varies by rotation.

 

[racerwad]

You did say you couldn't. You literally wrote "You can only get a SLOE if you rotate at a place w/ an ACGME EM program".
Sorry, but I'm just trying to prevent the propagation of inaccurate information.

Haha, you're right. Anyone can get a SLOE from either an AOA or ACGME EM program. I shouldn't have been so specific and say ACGME EM. I meant any accredited EM program.

My anecdotal experience that my AOA SLOE was accepted, but it brought up more questions of curiosity about the program than what they had written about me on it. I think that the SLOEs I got from larger ACGME places had more positive influence. I think you'd run into this with a SLOE from a small or new ACGME program, too.

 

[Stephanopolous]

I'm a current 4th year out on auditions. Seems like most of my fellow students are doing 3-4 auditions with the less prepared doing 1-2 and then scrambling to get into trauma surgery or EM ultrasound that might give them some exposure to the ED. Ideally you should aim for 2-4 auditions between July and October, but the earlier the better as you want to shoot for two strong SLOE's before MD programs open. Apply to these auditions early, ideally as soon as they open on VSAS, which varies by rotation.

Thank you!

 

[Stephanopolous]

Another question. I was browsing through the AOA residencies and kept seeing this statement on a lot of the sites' info page:

Attention new trainees! This program will grant residency credit for the 1st postdoctoral year of training. Students will "Match" directly into this residency and the 1st postdoctoral year will be considered the first year of residency training. For more details, click HELP or call this program

Does this mean that instead of a traditional 4 year AOA residency it will essentially be a 3year AOA similar to the 3 year MD EM residencies?

 

[qqw]

Is it pretty much a given that you must get a letter from an attending at the audition rotation you're on? Do they all have to be from there? Or can some be from your core site or elsewhere?

 

[Jlaw]

Another question. I was browsing through the AOA residencies and kept seeing this statement on a lot of the sites' info page:

Attention new trainees! This program will grant residency credit for the 1st postdoctoral year of training. Students will "Match" directly into this residency and the 1st postdoctoral year will be considered the first year of residency training. For more details, click HELP or call this program

Does this mean that instead of a traditional 4 year AOA residency it will essentially be a 3year AOA similar to the 3 year MD EM residencies?

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to but it seems that a lot of the osteopathic EM programs have a first year schedule which is a lot like a traditional rotating internship, i.e. you are working in different specialties, taking call, etc.

 

[Jlaw]

Is it pretty much a given that you must get a letter from an attending at the audition rotation you're on? Do they all have to be from there? Or can some be from your core site or elsewhere?

You don't have to...if you already have good letters and your app is complete then don't worry about it. I'm getting letters from 2 auditions and the other two I am only rotating with to try and increase my chances of matching.

 

[padfoot777]

With regards to obtaining strong LORs, what happens if your first rotation in your desired specialty isn't until the beginning of your 4th year (say August) since the AOA application opens up on July 15th? Is it common for applicants to AOA programs to submit an application without LORs in their specific field initially, obtain letters during 4th year auditions, and add them to their file?

 

[Dr. Adamantium]

bump

 

[hallowmann]

Another question. I was browsing through the AOA residencies and kept seeing this statement on a lot of the sites' info page:

Attention new trainees! This program will grant residency credit for the 1st postdoctoral year of training. Students will "Match" directly into this residency and the 1st postdoctoral year will be considered the first year of residency training. For more details, click HELP or call this program

Does this mean that instead of a traditional 4 year AOA residency it will essentially be a 3year AOA similar to the 3 year MD EM residencies?

No, these are 4 year programs. Some states and/or programs require(d) an intern year for licensing/training. What they're saying essentially is that your first year at the program also fulfills the requirement some places have for an intern year, so you don't have to do an additional/separate one.