Austin Pediatrician Dr. Dodson & Under-Desk Holsters Revisited

[drusso]

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A Pediatrician With Terminal Cancer Killed Another Pediatrician And Himself During A Hostage Situation

Bharat Narumanchi died by suicide after fatally shooting a beloved Austin pediatrician, Katherine Lindley Dodson, during a hostage situation at a children's medical center.

www.buzzfeednews.com

This story has been blowing up my social media. Dr. Dodson worked with one of my friends from med school at that clinic.

I took a lot of flack on here a while back for suggesting that pain docs explore self-defense options in the clinic. Some of us do take our self-defense seriously. You never know who the next threat is in your waiting room--not just an angry patient on a non-consensual opioid taper, but a stim rep with an axe to grind, a competitor whose block time got re-assigned to you, or a mid-level...

I wonder if things would have turned out differently if the clinic had been prepared to defend itself in this kind of crisis situation?

 

[SommeRiver]

95% of you can take all the classes in practical shooting you want and yet still S your pants in that situation and make a bad decision.

 

[chudat]

What was the motive?

 

[drusso]

What was the motive?

Ego and revenge.

 

[Agast]

You have to be willing to shoot to kill if you bring a gun into the occasion. I really don’t think a sweet pediatrician would have done that, she would have hoped that the hostage negotiators could work something out.

 

[BobBarker]

Agree. There is 0 probability that a normal pediatrician would keep a gun on her person or in her practice and shoot and kill anyone.

 

[drusso]

You have to be willing to shoot to kill if you bring a gun into the occasion. I really don’t think a sweet pediatrician would have done that, she would have hoped that the hostage negotiators could work something out.

I don't think that is worth your life. Hope is not a strategy.

 

[drusso]

Agree. There is 0 probability that a normal pediatrician would keep a gun on her person or in her practice and shoot and kill anyone.

I don't care how sweet, peace-loving-Jesus you are, if someone threatens you, your staff, and patients self-defense, upto and including deadly force, must be on the table.

 

[SommeRiver]

I don't care how sweet, peace-loving-Jesus you are, if someone threatens you, your staff, and patients self-defense, upto and including deadly force, must be on the table.

You've removed humanity from your equation, which varies wildly through society.

Pediatricians tend to be soft and overwhelmingly compassionate people.

The majority of pediatricians would get beaten to death with their own gun.

 

[Agast]

I don't care how sweet, peace-loving-Jesus you are, if someone threatens you, your staff, and patients self-defense, upto and including deadly force, must be on the table.

It’s more complicated when the assailant is another doctor and not an angry patient.

Although, if one of you stepped in my office...”Thank goodness you shot him Dr. Agast! He had a gun!” Me: “Whaat, he had a gun? I mean...yeah! That’s why I shot him!” Lol.

You could probably run a study on which specialty is most likely to pull a trigger and pain docs would be on the top. We’re just conditioned to see every person as a potential risk.

 

[BobBarker]

I don't care how sweet, peace-loving-Jesus you are, if someone threatens you, your staff, and patients self-defense, upto and including deadly force, must be on the table.

I would be less surprised for Hogwarts to be real than for a female pediatrician like the one murdered to keep a gun in her clinic and use it on someone.

 

[drusso]

I would be less surprised for Hogwarts to be real than for a female pediatrician like the one murdered to keep a gun in her clinic and use it on someone.

Teaching our daughters self-defense skills and gun safety is more important than ever.

 

[willabeast]

Wonder if the perp had mets to the brain. Brain mets can make people do strange violent things, and an MD wanting to volunteer who then kills an MD then kills himself is pretty strange.

 

[SommeRiver]

Teaching our daughters self-defense skills and gun safety is more important than ever.

Has nothing to do with marksmanship (2021 - lemme be sure to say markswomanship too) and everything to do with who you are on a fundamental level...Unless you're proposing everyone does 12-24 months in the military after HS.

Maybe we can talk then...

 

[Agast]

Wonder if the perp had mets to the brain. Brain mets can make people do strange violent things, and an MD wanting to volunteer who then kills an MD then kills himself is pretty strange.

He already had a history of domestic violence allegations. Fired from one job, filed for bankruptcy. I don't think the cancer affected his personality more so it gave him nothing to live for.

He probably didn't get the position because he gave off creepy vibes or failed the background check

Doctor in Austin murder-suicide accused of abusing ex-wife (nypost.com)

 

[deleted314957]

It’s more complicated when the assailant is another doctor and not an angry patient.

Although, if one of you stepped in my office...”Thank goodness you shot him Dr. Agast! He had a gun!” Me: “Whaat, he had a gun? I mean...yeah! That’s why I shot him!” Lol.

You could probably run a study on which specialty is most likely to pull a trigger and pain docs would be on the top. We’re just conditioned to see every person as a potential risk.

That specialty would be forensic pathology[emoji848]

 

[geauxg8rs]

That specialty would be forensic pathology[emoji848]

So all pediatricians are warm and fuzzy people who wouldn’t kill a fly?
And pain docs are blood thirsty murderers?

yes, pretty much spot on

 

[drusso]

Has nothing to do with marksmanship (2021 - lemme be sure to say markswomanship too) and everything to do with who you are on a fundamental level...Unless you're proposing everyone does 12-24 months in the military after HS.

Maybe we can talk then...

That's not a bad idea. But, I recently heard that less than 15% of high school graduates can meet enlistment requirements due to poor physical fitness, drug use, or academic deficiencies.

 

[lobelsteve]

You have to be willing to shoot to kill if you bring a gun into the occasion. I really don’t think a sweet pediatrician would have done that, she would have hoped that the hostage negotiators could work something out.

Pediatrician

 

[SommeRiver]

That's not a bad idea. But, I recently heard that less than 15% of high school graduates can meet enlistment requirements due to poor physical fitness, drug use, or academic deficiencies.

Ha!

Fitness requirements are fluid - No shortage of fat slugs out there on active duty.

 

[Agast]

View attachment 328785

Pediatrician

Dr. Levine might have a gun and be willing to use it, because violence against trans women is well-documented. At minimum trans women should probably carry a taser in their purse.

'I feel targeted': U.S. trans murders near record high

Violent deaths of transgender people in the United States are on track to reach a record high this year after two Black trans women were killed in the last week, with advocates blaming a rise in anti-trans rhetoric.

www.reuters.com

 

[SommeRiver]

Dr. Levine might have a gun and be willing to use it, because violence against trans women is well-documented. At minimum trans women should probably carry a taser in their purse.

'I feel targeted': U.S. trans murders near record high

Violent deaths of transgender people in the United States are on track to reach a record high this year after two Black trans women were killed in the last week, with advocates blaming a rise in anti-trans rhetoric.

www.reuters.com

Considering the extremely high suicide rates in the trans community I'd probably recommend she stay away from guns.

 

[willabeast]

Admin made me get rid of a knife in my locked office drawer. Even though there were much bigger knives in the break room. When i complained to my doctor rep, he said "the idea of you having a knife for self defense in your office sickens me". I heard no one questions a baseball bat as long as you have a mitt with it.

 

[Ferrismonk]

The American Academy of Pediatrics is actively anti-gun. Most pediatricians I know are the same way.

"Any death from gun violence is one too many"
"The safest home for children and teens is one without guns"
"Ask, "Is there an unlocked gun in your house?" before sending your child over to play."
"If you own a firearm, the AAP recommends it be stored unloaded, locked up, with the ammunition stored separately."

https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/campaigns-and-toolkits/gun-safety/

 

[drusso]

The American Academy of Pediatrics is actively anti-gun. Most pediatricians I know are the same way.

"Any death from gun violence is one too many"
"The safest home for children and teens is one without guns"
"Ask, "Is there an unlocked gun in your house?" before sending your child over to play."
"If you own a firearm, the AAP recommends it be stored unloaded, locked up, with the ammunition stored separately."

https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/campaigns-and-toolkits/gun-safety/

I'm curious if one armed pediatrician murdering another unarmed pediatrician will prompt a new conversation...

 

[DODOCSS]

snowflake or not?

 

[SSdoc33]

the idea of putting a gun in a pediatrician's office is absurd

 

[SSdoc33]

View attachment 328785

Pediatrician

that pediatrician has done more with her life than you ever will with yours.

grow up

 

[drusso]

the idea of putting a gun in a pediatrician's office is absurd

Easy for you to say. Your children's mother is still alive.

 

[SSdoc33]

Easy for you to say. Your children's mother is still alive.

my coworker's child is not. b/c of a gun where it shouldnt be. that what happens when you have kids around. they get into everything

the literature on this is crystal clear.... but you go ahead and put your head in the sand once again.

a little less ayn rand and a little more maya angelou would work wonders

 

[deleted314957]

my coworker's child is not. b/c of a gun where it shouldnt be. that what happens when you have kids around. they get into everything

the literature on this is crystal clear.... but you go ahead and put your head in the sand once again.

a little less ayn rand and a little more maya angelou would work wonders

Agree100%. I am an enthusiastic, recreational target shooter and i’ve got lots of guns. they must be inaccessible to children and locked.

 

[Ducttape]

see i look at this situation completely differently.

that doctor went in to the office with the intent on killing a doctor. regardless of whether she were armed, there was no chance that Dr. Dodson would have escaped with her life.

one can argue collateral damage and more deaths would have been more likely if she were armed.

 

[drusso]

my coworker's child is not. b/c of a gun where it shouldnt be. that what happens when you have kids around. they get into everything

the literature on this is crystal clear.... but you go ahead and put your head in the sand once again.

a little less ayn rand and a little more maya angelou would work wonders

I'll run it by the curriculum committee, but last time I checked I think we voted to swap out Maya Angelou for Ben Shapiro...

 

[TheLoneWolf]

outcome could have been different if an EDC on her person. That's conjecture and open for debate but the only other option is at the mercy of the perpetrator. Highly unlikely that any physician is armed and criminals know this. Even walking into the VA you see tons of signs saying no guns or knives allowed on premises. These are people going after soft targets, aka unarmed. Most hospitals have unarmed staff though I have seen that the major metropolitan have posted armed city police.

criminals usually try to catch you at your most vulnerable time. Most can bet that clinics and hospitals will not allow any staff outside of security to be armed.

Where I did my anesthesia and pain fellowships, unrelated locations, gas station holdups were far more common than anywhere I had lived previously.

I had done a rotation in downtown chicago and every single phone store I has walked into had openly armed security. Chatted up a few of them and most were off duty policemen. I'm sure your life is worth more than some phones.

No need to look farther than the pain doc murdered by an ex security guard in his apartment, the PM&R doc killed walking to his car by an angry family member, the family doctor hacked to death with an axe and machete during clinic hours, the numerous murder suicides at the VA, many over pain meds. Could a gun have changed the outcomes? Most likely no but probably better than nothing.Numbers are on the criminal side to get the jump on the physician, having a weapon may or may not change the outcome.

I did have an EM physician on a med school rotation who was rumored to have a revolver in his work backpack that he kept next to his computer. Asked him on a night shift if it was true and he wouldn't confirm or deny.

For a private clinic, I guess barring state, medical board and local regulations, having something in clinic may not be such a crazy idea, especially with an impulsive, addicted, nonworking, psych heavy population, drusso has some valid points; especially if no in house police or security. Insurance.

 

[drusso]

outcome could have been different if an EDC on her person. That's conjecture and open for debate but the only other option is at the mercy of the perpetrator. Highly unlikely that any physician is armed and criminals know this. Even walking into the VA you see tons of signs saying no guns or knives allowed on premises. These are people going after soft targets, aka unarmed. Most hospitals have unarmed staff though I have seen that the major metropolitan have posted armed city police.

criminals usually try to catch you at your most vulnerable time. Most can bet that clinics and hospitals will not allow any staff outside of security to be armed.

Where I did my anesthesia and pain fellowships, unrelated locations, gas station holdups were far more common than anywhere I had lived previously.

I had done a rotation in downtown chicago and every single phone store I has walked into had openly armed security. Chatted up a few of them and most were off duty policemen. I'm sure your life is worth more than some phones.

No need to look farther than the pain doc murdered by an ex security guard in his apartment, the PM&R doc killed walking to his car by an angry family member, the family doctor hacked to death with an axe and machete during clinic hours, the numerous murder suicides at the VA, many over pain meds. Could a gun have changed the outcomes? Most likely no but probably better than nothing.Numbers are on the criminal side to get the jump on the physician, having a weapon may or may not change the outcome.

I did have an EM physician on a med school rotation who was rumored to have a revolver in his work backpack that he kept next to his computer. Asked him on a night shift if it was true and he wouldn't confirm or deny.

For a private clinic, I guess barring state, medical board and local regulations, having something in clinic may not be such a crazy idea, especially with an impulsive, addicted, nonworking, psych heavy population, drusso has some valid points; especially if no in house police or security. Insurance.

 

[lobelsteve]

that pediatrician has done more with her life than you ever will with yours.

grow up

Attack other peoples opinions with personal attacks. Lefty playbook. HELP!!! I AM BEING SILENCED.

Hmm? I'm not sure you post enough useful/relevant clinical information/data or share worthwhile knowledge. Where is that ignore button?

 

[bedrock]

Attack other peoples opinions with personal attacks. Lefty playbook. HELP!!! I AM BEING SILENCED.

Hmm? I'm not sure you post enough useful/relevant clinical information/data or share worthwhile knowledge. Where is that ignore button?

As was clearly demonstrated in the NP thread, liberals do not believe in the first amendment.

They are little snowflakes, scared to truly discuss issues, lest they be proven wrong, or god forbid, be forced to think outside their echo chamber.

 

[deleted131481]

I do part-time anesthesia and one thing that will always remain stressful is a critical/difficult airway. People, including myself, can make bad decisions despite years of training, available help, etc.

I don't own a gun but I could go to a range and practice. Even so, my chance of making a critical mistake with a gun (action or inaction) - in a situation 10x more stressful that I can never simulate - will be quite high. Not to mention the excess risk taken of having one around and falling in the wrong hands.

A taser has a much better risk/benefit in my hands than a gun.

 

[deleted131481]

As was clearly demonstrated in the NP thread, liberals do not believe in the first amendment.

They are little snowflakes, scared to truly discuss issues, lest they be proven wrong, or god forbid, be forced to think outside their echo chamber.

Again you resort to name calling, because that is what is done by liberals who can't debate intellectually.

Feel free to show us more than an ancedote but a real scientific study that demonstrates concrete and systemic examples of advantages given to white males who grew up in poverty in this current century in the US. Good luck----- 🧑‍🎤

Not trying to start another argument, but simply pointing out the inconsistency in your statements.

And if you read the thread, studies showing exactly what you asked for were posted in opposition to your anecdotal statements supporting your argument.

Also, I didn't see anyone limiting your free speech.

 

[SSdoc33]

Attack other peoples opinions with personal attacks. Lefty playbook. HELP!!! I AM BEING SILENCED.

Hmm? I'm not sure you post enough useful/relevant clinical information/data or share worthwhile knowledge. Where is that ignore button?

your personal opinion?

you want to make fun of transgender individual because how she looks, go right ahead. something to take pride in. way to go!

im not trying to silence you, im telling you to not be a d@ck.

and if you are looking for useful information from me, maybe something you can learn, here it is:

Cultivate a Trans-Inclusive & Gender-Sensitive Workplace

Explore the trans experience in an office environment.

emtrain.com

 

[lobelsteve]

Why We Need To Fight Against Transgender Acceptance

Here is someone else's opinion. You can agree or disagree with it.

 

[lobelsteve]

Anti-transgender bills introduced in more than a dozen state legislatures – Baptist News Global

While transgender rights are being expanded by the Biden administration in Washington, D.C., bills have been introduced in more than a dozen state legislatures that would narrow rights for transgender persons, especially minors, and for their parents and caregivers.

baptistnews.com

And another...

 

[cowboydoc]

Admin made me get rid of a knife in my locked office drawer. Even though there were much bigger knives in the break room. When i complained to my doctor rep, he said "the idea of you having a knife for self defense in your office sickens me". I heard no one questions a baseball bat as long as you have a mitt with it.

Perhaps you could get by with a rifle as long as you had your camo with it?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Transgender is a psychological disorder as evidenced by the rates of suicide that are outrageously high in that population.

I'll call you whatever you want to be called and I won't deadname you but I also won't be really silly about it.

Appointing a transgender pediatrician to any high level appointment is like taking someone with well-controlled bipolar on stable meds and giving them the job.

I have nothing but empathy for transgender individuals, but they need psychological treatment.

You mean perfectly acceptable?

Beyond that, if you look at more recent data treated transgender people have suicide rates that are not statistically significant compared to the general population.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No, I mean less than ideal and it is most likely there are better options without baggage.

Yes, transgender is a psychological problem and it is foolish to deny this.

Gender dysphoria is the term you're looking for

 

[SommeRiver]

Gender dysphoria is the term you're looking for

Mmmhmmm...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Mmmhmmm...

But see, not every transgender person has gender dysphoria

 

[Agast]

No, I mean less than ideal and it is most likely there are better options without baggage.

Yes, transgender is a psychological problem and it is foolish to deny this.

Board-certified psychiatrists would disagree with you.

Gender Dysphoria Diagnosis

The history and differential associated with gender dysphoria.

www.psychiatry.org

 

[SommeRiver]

Very silly.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Closing. This thread has run it's course and I suggest members review the TOS concerning appropriate content. Thanks.