Australian 2015 Internship Ballots

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pitman

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It's early days for the 2015 Ballot season -- a period of more than 6 months when medical students apply for internship (to start work in the latter half of January). Each state/province has its own Ballot and its own criteria for selecting and allocating its interns. All have promised to give all their own domestic graduates jobs. Three (ACT, Victoria, and WA) prioritize their own international students above out-of-state domestic students. Some states employ merit-based criteria for selection of candidates within each of their priority groups, while most select them randomly.

The current gross numbers for the country as a whole are the following:

Unique applicants: 3676
Domestic students: 3004
International students: 480
Other (foreign students): 192​
Total intern spots: 3210

NB1: these numbers are for state ballots only, and do not include Commonwealth Medical Internship (CMI) spots that will likely be made available for international students again this year.

NB2: I don't yet have the number of New Zealand student applicants, who for a majority of states are in a higher priority group than int'l students. Such prevents knowing how many state balloted spots are available to int'l students.

NB3: final numbers will not be known until next year, as spots tend to be magically 'created' along the way, candidates shuffle around or sometimes hold onto multiple acceptances for a period, others leave the country or take a year off, and (at least for the past two years) the ~100 CMI spots were made available late in the season. To date, in every year, there have been more spots available nationwide than grads trained in Australia who ended up wanting a job (e.g., two years ago when 176 int'ls were not placed by Ballot, ~100 CMI spots were offered to them, and about half remained unwanted/unfilled). Hopefully, the Commonwealth spots will continue for int'l students, but there are already enough spots to accommodate all domestic students moving forward as the annual grad numbers level out (with the peak to be realized in 2015).

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Let's hope everyone gets what they have wanted, or at least something close to their ideal, and that nobody's education is wasted.
 
Math is misleading. 3676-192 = 3484 Australian graduates to 3430 Australian graduates last year. Maybe it will be a huge problem this year, but it hasn't for past years. There were more than 54 intern spots open last year so call me crazy, but I see everyone who wants an internship getting one. You can argue that less international students go home, but we will just have to wait and see.
 
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Math is misleading. 3676-192 = 3484 Australian graduates to 3430 Australian graduates last year. Maybe it will be a huge problem this year, but it hasn't for past years. There were more than 54 intern spots open last year so call me crazy, but I see everyone who wants an internship getting one. You can argue that less international students go home, but we will just have to wait and see.

First you're asking about the medical system here as a pre-med, and now you're telling us what will happen with internship recruitment? This is very good work.
 
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First you're asking about the medical system here as a pre-med, and now you're telling us what will happen with internship recruitment? This is very good work.
Cool story bro! Tell it again.
 
Math is misleading. 3676-192 = 3484 Australian graduates to 3430 Australian graduates last year. Maybe it will be a huge problem this year, but it hasn't for past years. There were more than 54 intern spots open last year so call me crazy, but I see everyone who wants an internship getting one. You can argue that less international students go home, but we will just have to wait and see.

What do you mean the numbers are misleading? The 192 foreign students are still applicants in the total pool of 3676 people applying for 3210 spots (with the possibility of up to 100 CMI places).
 
I just checked out the updated status report. It's looking DISASTROUS unless all the P2-3s suddenly drop out.
 
Search qld health intern recruitment 2015--go to red button apply now--then hit position status report

There's ~500 unplaced students for 150 spots or so...

Caboolture has NOBODY placed so far
 
Search qld health intern recruitment 2015--go to red button apply now--then hit position status report

There's ~500 unplaced students for 150 spots or so...

Caboolture has NOBODY placed so far

Don't understand why they haven't started filling in spots for p2-p6 yet. Is it because they are primarily handling p1 at the moment and will allocate the others at a later date?
 
Yeah if you look at selection process (go back to the initial internship page), the P2-P6s will find out on the 30th.

So unless all the P2s-P3s take positions in their own state, this looks like the first year where the majority of internationals will miss out on internships with QHealth.
 
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Not really. Hospitals have always handled their own acceptances after the first round (i.e., they've been known to take int'ls above out-of-staters).

On the other hand, using such a conditional statement as you just did doesn't help much -- the problem is still non-unique, and therefore not a 'DISASTER' -- yeah, *if* this year there aren't many spots left for int'ls, then, just like for the previous decade when the numbers seemed hugely inadequate at this point, int'ls would be without a spot. Such says nothing.

In the end, these number mean essentially nothing anyway wrt int'ls if/when there are CMI spots. Like for the past two years.

So yeah, if there aren't spots, and if there aren't CMI spots, then there will be some number of int'ls without jobs here who might want them.

Qldking, maybe you should stop with qualifications like "DISASTROUS" and just wait it out, since you still don't seem to understand how this stuff works.
 
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Wait what out?I am not applying, I've already finished the process.

CMI spots are essentially consolation prizes.

I do hope you are right, though, and everyone ends up with something.

Do you seem to take issue with someone who advocates students over the system? or is 'Wilko' and his troup of lackeys paying you off? It's really bizarre how much you side with the corporations.
 
There you go again.

Do you really not understand what I just clearly said? I said that you should wait it out -- wait the ballot process out -- rather than continue to make absurd qualifications here, as I have just explained. You ALWAYS make extreme qualifications and predictions that don't pan out. Consistently. Predictably. They're all over the Australia threads. I haven't, and I haven't been spectacularly wrong like you have been, over and over again.

And then whenever any example of your pattern is pointed out, your further pattern has been to immediately present false dichotomies, assigning one to your accuser, and the strange conspiracy theory that he must be a lackey to Satanic corporations or some such. Consistently. Predictably.

Shutting your trap while reality settles in would be the healthy thing for such a person to do.
 
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Check out the new updated status report. There are now fewer than 50 spots left over for P2-P6s
 
Um, yes. This has been true since the ballot began. No updates change this. Or are you suggesting that applicants were manufactured since then?

Giving a blow-by-blow of the status quo...isn't a new justification as you claim, to yell, "DISASTROUS!"
 
55 new P1s took spots (roll backs) today! That means there are now nearly 500 people for fewer than 50 available spots!
 
Roll backs are not 'new', qldking, and haven't changed the known numbers of domestic Qld grads vs. spots available. Why are you being so manic? Have you lost your mind?

Yes, there are many more applicants than remaining spots today, just as there have been for EVERY YEAR SINCE 2008.

Absolutely nothing wrt outcome for int'l students has changed in the past few months. Nothing.

The next milestone will be how many of those remaining spots are given to int'l students. Stop trying to guess, as you will be wrong.

After that, the next milestone will be the CMI spots, and whether all are taken up. It really doesn't matter one way or another whether you think these are 'consolation prizes' -- they are critical to the outcome of who gets jobs, which is precisely what you yourself have been harping on about.

No one will know the final outcome, to claim "DISASTROUS!" until early next year. Period.

Why do people need to repeatedly educate you on these same things, over and over and over?
 
I know exactly what roll back means. The point is there's a good chance no internationals get a QH job. Stop mentioning the CMI consolation positions as if they are any sort of legitimate offering.
 
Yes, a good chance, just like it did for the past two years when int'ls didn't get a QHealth job but then nonetheless got internship. Again, it's the STATUS QUO.

Stop excluding CMI spots as though stats halfway through the process portends anything different than they have any other year. Your claim of CMI illegitimacy is utterly baseless, as we've discussed before, and is conveniently only thrown out ex post facto when your other claims are challenged.

If you know what roll back means, then you know that nothing has changed. Which means you know your "DISASTROUS!" alert was hyperbole.
 
I hope it was hyperbole. The numbers will come to light soon eventually.
 
Queensland Ballot Round 1 results (for P1 = Qld domestic students; Round 2, for P2-P6, will commence on 30 July):
 

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Post Round 1 results (for P1 students; Round 2, for P2-P6, will commence on 30 July):

Wow so most of the spots are already taken up before p2-p6 have their turn.

One thing I was a bit mixed up is that do the numbers under each column represent unique applicants putting that hospital choice as their first preference or does it simply represent that an applicant has applied. For example if I applied to hospital A and Hospital B as my first two preference (overall on the list), will the system tally 1 for hospital A and 1 for hospital B or will it just tally 1 for Hospital A?
 
I believe it represents only first preference.
 
Wow so most of the spots are already taken up before p2-p6 have their turn.

One thing I was a bit mixed up is that do the numbers under each column represent unique applicants putting that hospital choice as their first preference or does it simply represent that an applicant has applied. For example if I applied to hospital A and Hospital B as my first two preference (overall on the list), will the system tally 1 for hospital A and 1 for hospital B or will it just tally 1 for Hospital A?
The numbers for 'P2-P6 Interns Applied' are for first preference. As qldking has pointed out, there are now 45 spots for ~500 applicants.
 
Unless at least half of the remaining pool of applicants areP2-P3 (and claim spots in the state of their school), people will absolutely miss out on spots this year, both QH and CMI.
 
Any news guys?? I am Monash medical student (Malaysia Campus) going to graduate this year, i have applied to different hospitals for the intern., i have got nothing until now? any news any help!!
 
Any news guys?? I am Monash medical student (Malaysia Campus) going to graduate this year, i have applied to different hospitals for the intern., i have got nothing until now? any news any help!!

Im guessing you are an international (non aus/nz citizen). The last stats before the Ballot system closed showed that you are one of over 500 students competing for 45 spots which you probably know by now makes gettint a spot rather difficult, not to mention you are on an off shore campus. However, I do believe they are seeing up cmi spots--not enough to fill the whole 500 who need spots, but hopefully you'll get something out of it
 
Thanks Struvite, I applied to many of hospitals in the whole Australasia, and i got nothing so far, I am non aus/nz citizen and pr, i just gave up now, it's so high competition. Do you mean 500 competing for 45 spots in whole the country?
 
Careful there -- of the 500 P2-P6 students (in Qld), as for any other year there is an unknown number (of out-of-staters and Kiwis) who got or will get jobs out of state and are therefore not seeking one of those 45 Qld spots. CMI spots, on the other hand, are only for int'l students (nation-wide), so should not be compared to that "500". There are no meaningful updates on the Ballot numbers yet, as far as I know.
 
Careful there -- of the 500 P2-P6 students (in Qld), as for any other year there is an unknown number (of out-of-staters and Kiwis) who got or will get jobs out of state and are therefore not seeking one of those 45 Qld spots. CMI spots, on the other hand, are only for int'l students (nation-wide), so should not be compared to that "500". There are no meaningful updates on the Ballot numbers yet, as far as I know.

As far as I know, virtually zero international students at UQ have received internship as of now.
 
Guys, Anyone applied for Tasmania? I already did, but also didn't get anything. Its seem so competitive there as well, do you have any information about that plz?!
 
Guys, Anyone applied for Tasmania? I already did, but also didn't get anything. Its seem so competitive there as well, do you have any information about that plz?!

Sorry man, you're just going to have to wait and see what happens. It looks like you are considered priority 3 in Taz (graduates of Australian Medical Council accredited offshore campuses). The good thing is that it looks like they lumped you in the same priority as interstate-international grads. Hope you hear something soon!
 
Interesting. Where have these students been offered positions? Given that the link showed 400 something applicants for 45 spots, I'm inclined to believe you're full of ****.
 
qldking, wtf. It was explained to you multiple times that 1) the number of remaining applicants says nothing to the number of int'ls (or of interstate, or of Kiwis); 2) numbers at the end of round 1 of the Ballot say nothing as to how many of those "remaining" are still seeking jobs for round 2; and 3) after P1, the hospitals have some leeway as to how they deal with Priority.

Yet you of all people want to say that someone on here is full of it, based off of your two favorite, simplistic numbers, and repeatedly demonstrated lack of understanding of anything Ballot-related? And further condemn a state (where UQ is most certainly NOT the only med school in Qld to have int'l students, despite your belief) for reasons that rely on such a complete lack of understanding? While ignoring the empirical fact that every year so far int'ls wanting to stay have all gotten jobs? Maybe it'd be most prudent for you simply to sit it out until the final results are in.
 
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CMI (Commonwealth-funded internship) spots for int'l students are officially a go. Applications are currently open for *hospitals* to apply for funding. Int'l student will be able to apply from 19 September.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/work-commonwealth-medical-internships

Final numbers have not been determined but will depend on hospitals applying for funding and the number of int'ls without a job following final round of all the normal state Ballots (hopefully TBD in October, but going on previous years, it could be later).
 
CMI (Commonwealth-funded internship) spots for int'l students are officially a go. Applications are currently open for *hospitals* to apply for funding. Int'l student will be able to apply from 19 September.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/work-commonwealth-medical-internships

Final numbers have not been determined but will depend on hospitals applying for funding and the number of int'ls without a job following final round of all the normal state Ballots (hopefully TBD in October, but going on previous years, it could be later).

This looks very good for the medical students. Glad to see the federal government wants to take care of its medical students.
 
Does anyone here have information on the number of internships this year vs graduates? Also were there any CMI spaces left unfilled in last years match?
 
CMI (Commonwealth-funded internship) spots for int'l students are officially a go. Applications are currently open for *hospitals* to apply for funding. Int'l student will be able to apply from 19 September.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/work-commonwealth-medical-internships

Final numbers have not been determined but will depend on hospitals applying for funding and the number of int'ls without a job following final round of all the normal state Ballots (hopefully TBD in October, but going on previous years, it could be later).


Pitman, I was just wondering, do you have any updates for this thread?
 
I don't aside from anecdote, sorry. I left the AMA and haven't kept my nose in the matter this year.

What I've heard anecdotally is similar to what I've heard in past years -- people reporting that classmates didn't get positions, but when asked for qualification of the circumstances, it turned out that such people either left or could have left Australia soon after the state Ballot, or otherwise chose not to apply for a CMI spot.

As far as I know, AMSA hasn't released any data despite claiming they were collating it. This could either be because of incompetence, or because the data didn't live up to their agenda. I'd recommend those interested send them emails to force their hand (to do their job), or even to ask the CMI admin folks directly.

This the latest I see on the AMSA website:
https://www.amsa.org.au/advocacy/internship-crisis/
AMSA contacts:
https://www.amsa.org.au/about/contact-us/
CMI:
[email protected]

Some meaningful questions to ask:
- How many CMI spots were, in the end, funded for the 2015 internship year?
- How many applications were there for those spots?
- Were there any unfilled spots at the beginning of the year?
- Are there any surveys of the (failed) applicants that might help us better understand how successful the CMI program was at giving a job to those who truly wanted to stay in Australia?
 
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In some ways that's even worse -- it means that AMSA got some feedback but didn't bother to explore/report on the extent of any shortage of spots.
 
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