Average debt out of medical school?

[jae9970]

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Not including loans accumulated during undergraduates, what's the general ball-park average of debt med students are burdened at the end of medical education?

i realize it'll be very different depending on where you go to school, but im asking because i have heard anywhere between 88k to a quarter of a million dollars.. and that's a huge difference.

 

[sirus_virus]

A whole lot.

 

[DoctaJay]

The MSAR is a much more accurate source for this information. I used their "Average Student Indebtness" numbers to decide which schools I was not going to apply to, that included GW and Georgetown. But generally, if its a private school or you are accepted to a state school but you are a OOSD then you will have well over $100K in debt. If its a state school and you are in-state than you will have closer to $100K in debt, or even less if you have a scholarship. Then you have the schools like Mayo which pay for almost everything and everyone basically gets a free ride.

Many private schools justify their high tuitions because they say that they give alot of scholarships and grants, so that could be something to look at also.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think the AAMC reports the average as around $80K - but that includes people who take out no loans (either spouses or parents pay, or they use their savings) and those who attend state schools and live at home, with relatively little expenses. Also, I believe that data to be a bit outdated.

If you attend an out of state school and have no family help, the total for 4 years can easily add up to $250K (think about tuition of upwards of $40K x 4 years, plus living expenses for 4 years, possibly a residency relocation loan, etc.).

So the average really means nothing to YOU - because your situation may vary significantly from the next person's.

 

[deleted87716]

Here's a table showing average indebtedness for FM residents in 2005: http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/aboutus/specialty/facts/26.html

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I think the AAMC reports the average as around $80K - but that includes people who take out no loans (either spouses or parents pay, or they use their savings) and those who attend state schools and live at home, with relatively little expenses. Also, I believe that data to be a bit outdated.

If you attend an out of state school and have no family help, the total for 4 years can easily add up to $250K (think about tuition of upwards of $40K x 4 years, plus living expenses for 4 years, possibly a residency relocation loan, etc.).

So the average really means nothing to YOU - because your situation may vary significantly from the next person's.

Exactly what I was going to say. 👍

 

[mjl1717]

when I took the Kaplan step 2ck course one of the profs was talking an average of 150k only for med school....
one guys in the class said he owed an unbelievable 300k, which included undergrad, still sound like a lot..
i owe 100k and Im an international medical grad. 😱

 

[deleted77919]

Unless you are in state and/or on scholarship then a total annual budget of $50,000 is pretty standard. Assuming you are on your own thats $200,000 plus interest which collects on your unsubsidized loans.

 

[saradoor]

Not including loans accumulated during undergraduates, what's the general ball-park average of debt med students are burdened at the end of medical education?

i realize it'll be very different depending on where you go to school, but im asking because i have heard anywhere between 88k to a quarter of a million dollars.. and that's a huge difference.

Just go to the following US News & World Report site:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_debt_brief.php

 

[i61164]

Why is Stanford so low? It's private right? So I guess that means mommy and daddy pay?

 

[TheMightyAngus]

The MSAR is a much more accurate source for this information. I used their "Average Student Indebtness" numbers to decide which schools I was not going to apply to, that included GW and Georgetown. But generally, if its a private school or you are accepted to a state school but you are a OOSD then you will have well over $100K in debt. If its a state school and you are in-state than you will have closer to $100K in debt, or even less if you have a scholarship. Then you have the schools like Mayo which pay for almost everything and everyone basically gets a free ride.

Many private schools justify their high tuitions because they say that they give alot of scholarships and grants, so that could be something to look at also.

These figures includes MSTP students and those who are having the military pay for their education.

Realistically, if you go to a private school. Expect to owe $200k.

 

[peace84]

I go to a state school and will most likely have about $250,000 in debt

 

[Critical Mass]

I will be borrowing about $40K for each of 4 years of medical school, but I also work so a lot of that is staying put in a money market in case I need it.

 

[saradoor]

Why is Stanford so low? It's private right? So I guess that means mommy and daddy pay?

Other than mommy & daddy/mommy & mommy/daddy & daddy/etc. 🙂 , some private schools like Stanford are known to be very generous to their students with scholarships etc.

 

[psipsina]

Yeah averages don't really tell you alot about what your specific situation will be, they might be interesting to see which schools appear to be giving out more scholarships but otherwise virtually useless if you know your not going to join the military/have rich parents willing to foot the bill/having a sugardaddy/mamma etc because these outliers are included in the averages. Some kids live with parents during medschool to save on living expenses too which changes things a bit too. If you know your going to depend on loans unless a nice shiny scholarship comes along you can bet on about 120k for state school with in state tuition and about 200k for private, add your undergrad debt to that and you get an idea of where you will start from before the interest starts accumulating during your residency.

 

[deleted77919]

you get an idea of where you will start from before the interest starts accumulating during your residency.

You also have interest collecting on the unsub Staffords while you are in school.

 

[psipsina]

You also have interest collecting on the unsub Staffords while you are in school.

I try to block that piece of knowledge out, . . . let the panicked oh my god I've sold my soul to the us government freak out ensue . . . .

 

[turkleton]

I think the AAMC reports the average as around $80K - but that includes people who take out no loans (either spouses or parents pay, or they use their savings) and those who attend state schools and live at home, with relatively little expenses. Also, I believe that data to be a bit outdated.

If you attend an out of state school and have no family help, the total for 4 years can easily add up to $250K (think about tuition of upwards of $40K x 4 years, plus living expenses for 4 years, possibly a residency relocation loan, etc.).

So the average really means nothing to YOU - because your situation may vary significantly from the next person's.

I think you're right on the two points... a little outdated and includes people who don't take loans- lucky bastards. We were just told by our financial aid office that the average loan debt for med students is around 130K (national average including private and public) and 115K for those who went to a state school. Fairly steep... when interest is factored in along with the length of time it'll take you to pay of the debt, med school will roughly cost you a cool quarter million. Averages have to be taken with a grain of salt, as others mentioned, but they're a good barometer to gauge what you're getting into. In light of this, it's not exactly the immoral sin of all sins to consider your future earning potential.

 

[Sophie]

Other than mommy & daddy/mommy & mommy/daddy & daddy/etc. 🙂 , some private schools like Stanford are known to be very generous to their students with scholarships etc.

True, except only 65% of Stanford students receive any sort of aid (loans, scholarships, work-study), meaning 35% can afford it out of pocket. Compare that to my school (which is still filled with mostly well-off people), where 90% receive some sort of aid, or to Pritzker (chosen randomly) where 92% of students receive aid.

Just another reason to dislike Stanfurd. 😀

 

[jae9970]

True, except only 65% of Stanford students receive any sort of aid (loans, scholarships, work-study), meaning 35% can afford it out of pocket. Compare that to my school (which is still filled with mostly well-off people), where 90% receive some sort of aid, or to Pritzker (chosen randomly) where 92% of students receive aid.

Just another reason to dislike Stanfurd. 😀

so If I can get into Stanford, I can expect a truckload of financial aid??

Sweet. Now if I only had a fair MCAT score..

 

[beefballs]

yeah the numbers are freaking draw dropping. i know of a couple-met and married at a private med school who are now Medicine residents and combined have over 500k in debt. I will be getting out with 120k-but I am maxing out Roth IRAs the whole time, along with some other expenses I could cut out-but choose not too. I try not to think about it b/c I am an extremely debt-averse type, and I rationalize to myself that I am investing in myself. Aint no way around it for most of us I guess

 

[Twitch]

^^^^ Why max out Roth IRA with loan money at 6.8% interest?

 

[NonTradMed]

The amount of debt that students accumulate is staggering sometimes. The weird thing is when I talk to doctors about this, and tell them how much tuition is now and debt etc, most aren't fazed by it. They're surprised by the rise in tuition but they tell me that's not a huge issue (maybe malpractice, long hours etc are bigger concerns?). I guess it eventually gets paid off.

I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to live with mom and dad and they help with tuition too. I'll probably end up with ~$50k in subsidized loan debt but I have chosen to take a loan out from my parents, so it comes to a grand total of ~$90k totol. Still a heavy sum, but far more managable than the $150k+ that I hear some students coming out with. Wow. 😱

 

[Miami_med]

The amount of debt that students accumulate is staggering sometimes. The weird thing is when I talk to doctors about this, and tell them how much tuition is now and debt etc, most aren't fazed by it. They're surprised by the rise in tuition but they tell me that's not a huge issue (maybe malpractice, long hours etc are bigger concerns?). I guess it eventually gets paid off.

I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to live with mom and dad and they help with tuition too. I'll probably end up with ~$50k in subsidized loan debt but I have chosen to take a loan out from my parents, so it comes to a grand total of ~$90k totol. Still a heavy sum, but far more managable than the $150k+ that I hear some students coming out with. Wow. 😱

Most of my friends who are paying their own way will be well over 150k. I had almost no undergrad debt, and I'll be closer to 170k before you even count the unsubsidized interest accruing. After residency, most of us can expect to owe about 250k when we can actually start making payments.

 

[soeagerun2or]

With tuition going up at times 10% per year and salaries staying equal it's no wonder we have a projected primary care shortage.

 

[Critical Mass]

With tuition going up at times 10% per year and salaries staying equal it's no wonder we have a projected primary care shortage.

I also wonder why nobody in government seems to care about the issue.

Let us pay our educational loans off pre-tax! This goes for everybody, not just docs. What good is a pre-tax retirement plan if you have 200K in debt to work off?

 

[sirus_virus]

With tuition going up at times 10% per year and salaries staying equal it's no wonder we have a projected primary care shortage.

You mean with sallaries declining? This solidifiies my conclusicon that physicians are not only under assault from lawyers, politicians, and insurance companies but also from academic medicine. Tell me why they continue to jack up tuition in the face of declining income. Not to mention their well crafted slave trade called residency.

 

[soeagerun2or]

Not to mention their well crafted slave trade called residency.

I always refer to residency as the medical pyramid scheme..

Also, FYI.. Being a chief resident sounds great but adds a year to your residency. Essentially if you're doing IM and they ask you to be chief you can't say no because otherwise your recommendations for your much coveted fellowship will evaporate. Talk about sick.

 

[saradoor]

I also wonder why nobody in government seems to care about the issue.

Let us pay our educational loans off pre-tax! This goes for everybody, not just docs. What good is a pre-tax retirement plan if you have 200K in debt to work off?

What are you talking about? The Army/Navy is extremely interested in recruiting medical students and will pay for tuition, books, lab fees, medical supplies, as well as give you >$1000/mo stipend. Don't ask for a freebie when you can work for the Decider!

From American Medical News:
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/site/free/prl20828.htm

 

[sirus_virus]

What are you talking about? The Army/Navy is extremely interested in recruiting medical students and will pay for tuition, books, lab fees, medical supplies, as well as give you >$1000/mo stipend. Don't ask for a freebie when you can work for the Decider!

From American Medical News:
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/site/free/prl20828.htm

Thanks for adding insult on top of injury.

 

[saradoor]

Thanks for adding insult on top of injury.

I am not a recruiter and have no interest in politics. Just point out there are options to merely taking out loans.

 

[Critical Mass]

I am not a recruiter and have no interest in politics. Just point out there are options to merely taking out loans.

I'm not saying that the government should solve the problem of physician debt--that's more the fault of state governments with respect to state-operated med schools. I am instead referring the lack of interest in primary care because of reduced reimbursements. I don't have any solutions, but it seems like our government just sits on its hands while doling phony campaign promises. In the meanwhile, we're all flocking to better-paying specialties.

 

[Gametime]

I remember reading somewhere that the majority of applicants that have disadvantaged status and/or are URMs recieve financial aid packages that include substantial scholarship/grant amounts. Accurate ? Also, aren't there private scholarships/grants one can apply for ? Help-me-go-to-med-skool kinda thing ?

You guys are already depressing me before my career as a potential doc even takes off 😀

 

[Critical Mass]

I remember reading somewhere that the majority of applicants that have disadvantaged status and/or are URMs recieve financial aid packages that include substantial scholarship/grant amounts. Accurate ? Also, aren't there private scholarships/grants one can apply for ? Help-me-go-to-med-skool kinda thing ?

Majority? The feds give schools money for disadvantaged students in healthcare, but usually it only comes out to a couple of thousand a year (sorta like a Pell Grant); hardly a dent in med school. Again, I don't think that society cares much if doctors have educational debt.

As for URMs (not the same as disadvantaged students in the eyes of Uncle Sam), different schools will have different programs. It depends on what kind of URM you are and how under-represented they actually are in the school's region/state.

 

[Magic Hateball]

Not including loans accumulated during undergraduates, what's the general ball-park average of debt med students are burdened at the end of medical education?

i realize it'll be very different depending on where you go to school, but im asking because i have heard anywhere between 88k to a quarter of a million dollars.. and that's a huge difference.

Who cares, its not like its REAL money anyway...right?

 

[live2theedge]

😀

Who cares, its not like its REAL money anyway...right?

That is why you are a sooner fan.http://img.studentdoctor.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif