Average hours/cases in residency

[Matty44]

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[Intensivist]

someone has it as their signature l think, but who.....

 

[scudrunner]

someone has it as their signature l think, but who.....

You might be thinking of Taurus, he (or she?) has MD/DO vs. PA vs. DNP but nothing in there about CRNA training.

 

[IlDestriero]

Hey guys, I'm just looking for some actual numbers for anesthesia residencies. I was talking with some CRNAs who say that they have equal training in terms of # of cases and total OR time during their training. I assume they are wrong but could not point them to any source for actual numbers. Anyone know of a place with such data?

Well considering that thier entire training, didactic and clinical, is AT MOST equal to a residents clinical training time, it would be impossible for that to be true. When you factor in that their call burden is normally about 1/2, it is even more ridiculous a claim. They're not complaining about exceeding the 80 hr/ week work rule, maybe 40-50? We had SRNA students in the navy, they worked shorter hours with 1/2 the call, doing the easiest cases, for half as long. Yeah, that's about equal right, and we trained them to work without backup, so they were better trained than the VAST majority. Of course when it came to complex cases, their training was weak, though probably still better than civilian programs.
Does that clear it up?

 

[Matty44]

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[bigdan]

Here's a couple of minutes of Google work; there may be more data out there:

University of Pittsburgh NA program (a very large, very strong program with a HUGE number of hospitals to gain experience within) states: "Throughout the program students administer an average of 850-900 anesthetics". http://www.pitt.edu/~napcrna/frameset.htm

I have never seen an "official" source for the national average of anesthetics delivered by anesthesiology residents, but have heard rumors of an average between 1200 - 1400. One of the fellows at my program, who came from MCW, said he did >2000.

While not definitive, this anecdotal evidence backs up Il Destriero's hypothesis.

dc

 

[hoyden]

There is an easy way to find out - if any of the residents here is willing to check his/her ACGME log - we will find out the answer immediately ( extrapolating the numbers, obviously, but the timing is almost perfect).

I can't bet, but my case log by the end of residency was close to 1600 cases.
However, I did not count them precisely and sure enough I did not log in all cases I've done - that ACGME site was a pain in a butt and a lot of cases were plain forgotten.
But I remember my co-resident telling me at the end of our CA-1 year that he has reached almost 1000 cases for the one year only.

 

[Southpaw]

Matt, not sure why you deleted your post as it's a reasonable question. Senior residents in my programs say somewhere between 1800-2000 cases. I imagine the nationwide average is around 1600, but this is just a guess. We have a lot of late days and call increases as residency progresses.

We also spend 7-8 months as physicians in various ICUs. We spend months learning neuraxial/general techniques in OB, and learning PNB techniques on regional. We also run the PACU for around the month during residency and spend a few weeks in the pre-anesthesia clinic, and some residency programs have senior residents run the board/supervise. And I don't know exactly how many days throughout residency, but maybe 1 day every 1-2 weeks we take overnight airway/anesthesiology consult call for the hospital.

There's nothing you can say to a CRNA/SRNA who insists their training is equivalent, even when it's blatantly obvious to everyone else that it's not. It goes back to the comment I made about polls.

Across the board, I average between 60-70 hours a week. Sometimes I'm over 80, sometimes I'm under 60.

My guess is that you'd find a little variety between residency programs with case loads and hours, but not really a whole lot. ACGME requirements have almost completely standardized our education. But, my guess is that you'll find an absolutely ton of variety between SRNA programs. Take it for what it's worth, I think our education prepares us to be complete perioperative physicians.

 

[Narcotized]

There's nothing you can say to a CRNA/SRNA who insists their training is equivalent, even when it's blatantly obvious to everyone else that it's not.

That's only part of the problem. Even if they do as many cases in crna school as an MD does in residency, don't forget they still aren't doctors when they started and haven't completed an internship. The crna's that can claim they are equivalent are the ones that were smart enough to be accepted to medical school, actually then went to medical school, and did their 4 postgraduate years. Those crna's can say they had equivalent training.

 

[Southpaw]

The crna's that can claim they are equivalent are the ones that were smart enough to be accepted to medical school, actually then went to medical school, and did their 4 postgraduate years. Those crna's can say they had equivalent training.

And amazingly, those I know that've done that, and those that post here that've gone back to medical school, uniformly say "I didn't know what I didn't know...I'm much better prepared now to provide independent care."

 

[EternalMD]

There's a difference between the 5 lap chole's they may do in one day compared to a heart or liver case that a resident might be in. To them 5>1 so clearly they are as equal to or even better than us because they may be doing more cases than us.

 

[dhb]

I'm averaging 700-800 cases per year.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Over 2300 personally performed, including 186 hearts, heart transplants, and TAAA's, 27 liver transplants, over 50 open intractanial vascular, spine, trauma other major vascular, awake crani, over 300 pedi, 10 pedi hearts (wanted more), etc. Does NOT include PNB's, epidurals, or spinals done in block room, nor 11 months as ICU PHYSICIAN.

Want to separate yourself? Dive into the tough stuff early and often even if you could go home.

 

[Coastie]

Over 2300 personally performed, including 186 hearts, heart transplants, and TAAA's, 27 liver transplants, over 50 open intractanial vascular, spine, trauma other major vascular, awake crani, over 300 pedi, 10 pedi hearts (wanted more), etc. Does NOT include PNB's, epidurals, or spinals done in block room, nor 11 months as ICU PHYSICIAN.

Want to separate yourself? Dive into the tough stuff early and often even if you could go home.

Howdy stranger. Where have you been?

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Howdy stranger. Where have you been?

I'm still here. Just don't want to post redundantly from year to year as I found myself doing.

Still doing what I can to help out nationally (i.e. giving money), just have precious little free time to post my long diatribes.

 

[pgg]

Welcome back.