Average RN salary = 80k

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psychMDhopefully

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I had no idea. There is a TON of variation in nurse knowledge and skill. Some nurses absolutely deserved to be compensated that well (e.g. in critical care settings) but not enough to bring the average up that high.
 
I dunno as much as I bitch about working as a resident.... seems like the nurses are worse off in almost every way

they get assaulted and crapped on so much (I mean literally), and while they have much less legal responsibility or decision making, seems like they have just as much time they gotta spend in the EHR. Only I think that time is less "fun" than my time.

For the single professional, 50K a year these days is almost paycheck to paycheck living in a lot of places.... I think it's fair if nurses are better compensated than that.

80K average might be high?
 
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Most nurses are worth every cent. It's easy to get them to be more productive. Just take away all the nonsense documentation that only serves to clutter up the chart. Then you won't need to hire any nursing assistants or medical assistants at all. If you want to cut salaries, NPs are grossly overpaid for what they do. As are insurance company administrators and executives. The CEO of Aetna made $10 million by creating time intensive roadblocks to care and denying claims due to services rendered by physicians.

And the nurses that are most up in arms about salaries are nurse anesthetists even though they make vastly more than every other nurse. Even that 170k they posted looks low to me.
 
I dunno as much as I bitch about working as a resident.... seems like the nurses are worse off in almost every way

they get assaulted and crapped on so much (I mean literally), and while they have much less legal responsibility or decision making, seems like they have just as much time they gotta spend in the EHR. Only I think that time is less "fun" than my time.

For the single professional, 50K a year these days is almost paycheck to paycheck living in a lot of places.... I think it's fair if nurses are better compensated than that.

80K average might be high?

Yeah living paycheck to paycheck is below nurses, that is what resident doctors with twice the education should be doing. In all fairness though, if you look at the charts, California which has a lot of nurses pay their RNs as much as NPs, 100-120k sometimes more. Thats backwards as hell but Cali probably drags the average up a bit.
 
Seems a bit high, but not too much. I have no problem with it. BSNs are college grads w/ 4 years of post-high school education at the least typically. The good ones make a big difference in patient care and the great ones can save a residents ass a time or two and are confident enough dealing with simple issues to not page you every 5 minutes while you're on call.

Granted, there are some terrible ones, especially newer nurses. Typically their pay grade isn't as high initially and increases with years of experience and is also dependent on area of the country they work in. I'd imagine a new BSN starting salary would be somewhere around low 60s working full time

There should be more regulation though. A post-op nurse shouldn't make as much as a nurse on a surgical floor where patients are ****ting and bursting ostomy bags open every half an hour, who shouldn't make as much as an ICU nurse. Some nurses literally do nothing but give meds, chart that they gave meds, and start IVs. Those people shouldn't be making even 60. But the ones who are on their feet nonstop, active with patients, especially those with significant morbidity, they deserve to make 80+
 
What do nurses do anyways?

document a ton of stuff that doesn't matter
a ton of stuff that does (like vitals)
deal with all patient buzzes/questions/concerns/demands/assaults
dress, sponge bathe, and clean up urinary and fecal incontinence messes (imagine Dr. Suess Cat in the Hat.... but it's not pink frosting)
poke patients to start IVs (there's a job I'm glad I don't do.... only have to do FIVE in all of residency for IM cert..... so why the **** is the floor nurse grabbing me when she can't start the IV??), other minor procedures like inserting/removing Foley catheters
applying restraints
redirect demented/delerious patients
carry out MD orders
convince patients to take the meds the MD ordered (this is a VERY taxing skill)
assessing patient skin integrity and turning them to avoid bedsores
basic wound care

the list goes on, just the sucky jobs I know they do daily I'm glad I don't have to do that came to mind

if there's no surgery and hands are going on the patient in the hospital, it's usually a nurse
they are the ones that have to put their back into it
 
document a ton of stuff that doesn't matter
a ton of stuff that does (like vitals)
deal with all patient buzzes/questions/concerns/demands/assaults
dress, sponge bathe, and clean up urinary and fecal incontinence messes (imagine Dr. Suess Cat in the Hat.... but it's not pink frosting)
poke patients to start IVs (there's a job I'm glad I don't do.... only have to do FIVE in all of residency for IM cert..... so why the **** is the floor nurse grabbing me when she can't start the IV??), other minor procedures like inserting/removing Foley catheters
applying restraints
redirect demented/delerious patients
carry out MD orders
convince patients to take the meds the MD ordered (this is a VERY taxing skill)
assessing patient skin integrity and turning them to avoid bedsores
basic wound care

the list goes on, just the sucky jobs I know they do daily I'm glad I don't have to do that came to mind

if there's no surgery and hands are going on the patient in the hospital, it's usually a nurse
they are the ones that have to put their back into it
All the nurses in my hospitals are lazy ****s. They don't take labs when they're ordered so they never get done unless I go draw them myself. I got a paralyzed lady with a giant 17 inch wide decubitus ulcer that needs to be turned frequently but lazy nurses wont do it so this patient's going to die in the hospital for no reason. I have to draw blood and put in IVs and change dressings in our patients. I used to respect nurses before starting clinical rotations smh
 
Yeah living paycheck to paycheck is below nurses, that is what resident doctors with twice the education should be doing. In all fairness though, if you look at the charts, California which has a lot of nurses pay their RNs as much as NPs, 100-120k sometimes more. Thats backwards as hell but Cali probably drags the average up a bit.

lol don't get me started on resident conditions
 
There should be more regulation though. A post-op nurse shouldn't make as much as a nurse on a surgical floor where patients are ****ting and bursting ostomy bags open every half an hour, who shouldn't make as much as an ICU nurse. Some nurses literally do nothing but give meds, chart that they gave meds, and start IVs. Those people shouldn't be making even 60. But the ones who are on their feet nonstop, active with patients, especially those with significant morbidity, they deserve to make 80+

Funny you say that, I was reading a thread over on allnurses about whether ICU nurses should make more than med/surg nurses:

http://allnurses.com/micu-sicu-nursing/should-icu-get-915502.html
 
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All the nurses in my hospitals are lazy ****s. They don't take labs when they're ordered so they never get done unless I go draw them myself. I got a paralyzed lady with a giant 17 inch wide decubitus ulcer that needs to be turned frequently but lazy nurses wont do it so this patient's going to die in the hospital for no reason. I have to draw blood and put in IVs and change dressings in our patients. I used to respect nurses before starting clinical rotations smh

your status says "pre heath advisor" so I didn't assume you were *too* familar with clinical training
 
Funny you say that, I was reading a thread over on allnurses about whether ICU nurses should make more than med/surg nurses:

http://allnurses.com/micu-sicu-nursing/should-icu-get-915502.html

"Mar 31, '14 by meandragonbrett
Your autonomy is perceived autonomy and risk to your license is moot."

This is the first time I've seen a nurse be so aware

But really the problem here is that most of us haven't been nurses. We know just as little about their work as they do about ours. RNs are an integral part of the system and I don't mind seeing them be compensated well for their work. I just thank god that I don't have to do some of the dirtier parts of their job.
 
Nurses eat their young
Is that why all the ones that have been around for a few years seem to gain so much weight?

I joke, I joke. I miss a lot of my nurse friends from back in the day, especially the ICU ones. They deserve every penny for what they do, just as we do.
 
I've been around enough nurses on the job to understand that they earn their pay. So, please kids, enough with the resentment of midlevels. Medicine is a team sport.

If the gov't wants to save money on Medicine, they can mandate that Big Pharm spend more on research than advertising.





Probably would be the CNA doing that.
 
I've been around enough nurses on the job to understand that they earn their pay. So, please kids, enough with the resentment of midlevels. Medicine is a team sport.

If the gov't wants to save money on Medicine, they can mandate that Big Pharm spend more on research than advertising.
Or cut out administrative costs. Physician compensation is a mere 8% of healthcare spending, while administrative costs are 25.3% of it. That's completely and utterly bat**** insane.
 
Most nurses earn every damn cent of that 80k. There are of course the lazy ones who are disgruntled, just like how there are some lazy disgruntled doctors as well (and every profession) who are bad at their job and don't earn that money. That being said don't take it out on the good nurses because of the ones that stick out. We would not want to do their job and so I for one am thankful they are there, allowing us to do our own job more efficiently. Pick on the health department bureaucrats if you want to find overpaid people in healthcare.
 
The one thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me is why their pay is rising so rapidly- nursing supply has outstripped demand for years. Maybe it's because they've lumped in all the midlevels as nurses, and they've brought up the mean?
 
Nurses making 80K ?!?!?!?!

Well good for them. I hope they figure out how to make 100K. Or 150K. I love the nurses I work with and they do a lot of stuff I wouldn't want to do. Why shouldn't they make every cent they possibly can? A big pharma CEO can make 20 mil but a nurse shouldn't make 80K? F that noise. I'm tired of anyone who knocks nurse pay. Or doctor pay for that matter. Every patient and every Huffington post blogger who gripes about your salary would take it in a second if they could get it. You really think if you walked down to the fire station or the auto shop or the basement where the blogger works and offered them six figures, that they'd say, "Oh no, not necessary, I do this out of love for the public". Ha. They'd take every dime in a New York minute. You know it, and they know it.

Maybe we could stand to learn a thing or two from our nurse friends.


Its a lot for what they do, they make 2.5 x what teachers make and teachers work 50-70 hrs a week. The only reason they are paid so much is because everything and everyone in health care is overpaid. And how many big pharm CEOs are there compared to nurses? 1: 1000000? Dude you are comparing apples to oranges on that front. Bernie really brainwashed the country with the who "big pharma and CEOs" crap, glad hes out of the race
 
The one thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me is why their pay is rising so rapidly- nursing supply has outstripped demand for years. Maybe it's because they've lumped in all the midlevels as nurses, and they've brought up the mean?

No they didnt lump them together. UNIONS is why pay is rising.
 
Its a lot for what they do, they make 2.5 x what teachers make and teachers work 50-70 hrs a week. The only reason they are paid so much is because everything and everyone in health care is overpaid. And how many big pharm CEOs are there compared to nurses? 1: 1000000? Dude you are comparing apples to oranges on that front. Bernie really brainwashed the country with the who "big pharma and CEOs" crap, glad hes out of the race

Teachers also work 8-9 months of the year.
 
Its a lot for what they do, they make 2.5 x what teachers make and teachers work 50-70 hrs a week. The only reason they are paid so much is because everything and everyone in health care is overpaid. And how many big pharm CEOs are there compared to nurses? 1: 1000000? Dude you are comparing apples to oranges on that front. Bernie really brainwashed the country with the who "big pharma and CEOs" crap, glad hes out of the race
2369904-28574960-3fb7-467f-b576-ace7d2bea2c8.jpg
 
Well it sounds like you should be in charge of salaries since you evidently get to unilaterally decide who is overpaid and who is underpaid. Please tell us exactly how much you've determined people should make.

Time invested in education, number of hour worked. If nurses with BS degrees working 36hr weeks are making 80k, residents with doctorate degrees working 60-80hrs a week should be making 150k.
 
Time invested in education, number of hour worked. If nurses with BS degrees working 36hr weeks are making 80k, residents with doctorate degrees working 60-80hrs a week should be making 150k.
But by that logic, attendings have earned no higher level of education and are usually working less hours than residents, and thus should be paid less than residents. Unless residents are in subsidized training, in which case they should be paid less...
 
Its a lot for what they do, they make 2.5 x what teachers make and teachers work 50-70 hrs a week. The only reason they are paid so much is because everything and everyone in health care is overpaid. And how many big pharm CEOs are there compared to nurses? 1: 1000000? Dude you are comparing apples to oranges on that front. Bernie really brainwashed the country with the who "big pharma and CEOs" crap, glad hes out of the race

I'm sorry, I don't agree. Most teachers do not deal with the same level of personal physical danger that nurses do, in addition to the body fluids/excrement. Trust me even the 1st graders that poop their pants on purpose have nothing on a 300 lb 67 year old's fecal incontinence. Dr. Suess' Cat in the Hat pink frosting is my favorite metaphor for that one.
To say nothing of how literally back breaking the work can be. When was the last time you saw a teacher have to rotate a 300 lb person every 2 hours and keep constant fecal incontinence out of a drippy 17 inch decubitus ulcer with a smell worse than the **** that wafts down the hallway? Never.

Both are underappreciated and teachers underpaid. But I agree with RNs making more than teachers. Maybe not a whole 30K more. Depends on the particulars for each occupation too.
 
I'm sorry, I don't agree. Most teachers do not deal with the same level of personal physical danger that nurses do, in addition to the body fluids/excrement. Trust me even the 1st graders that poop their pants on purpose have nothing on a 300 lb 67 year old's fecal incontinence. Dr. Suess' Cat in the Hat pink frosting is my favorite metaphor for that one.
To say nothing of how literally back breaking the work can be. When was the last time you saw a teacher have to rotate a 300 lb person every 2 hours and keep constant fecal incontinence out of a drippy 17 inch decubitus ulcer with a smell worse than the **** that wafts down the hallway? Never.

Both are underappreciated and teachers underpaid. But I agree with RNs making more than teachers. Maybe not a whole 30K more. Depends on the particulars for each occupation too.

Do you have any idea what it is like trying to control a class of 30 first graders? Being on you feet for 8 hours and going home having to do lesson plans and grade papers for another 2-4hrs? Dealing with crazy helicopter parents almost everyday? I'm sorry but teaching is just as hard as nursing, probably harder, you come home everyday exhausted. There in no justification for why nurses are paid so much more than teachers. And for the guy that said teachers get a 4month break, wtf? Maybe 2.5 month break, the other weeks you are working 50-70 hrs.
 
Do you have any idea what it is like trying to control a class of 30 first graders? Being on you feet for 8 hours and going home having to do lesson plans and grade papers for another 2-4hrs? Dealing with crazy helicopter parents almost everyday? I'm sorry but teaching is just as hard as nursing, probably harder, you come home everyday exhausted. There in no justification for why nurses are paid so much more than teachers. And for the guy that said teachers get a 4month break, wtf? Maybe 2.5 month break, the other weeks you are working 50-70 hrs.

Everything looks easy when you're not the one doing it. People be talking crap about Lebron but I don't see them in the NBA finals
 
There needs to be an appraisal of which grad degrees are most worthwhile based on time and money spent and average salary, just for information purposes. Also take into account work stress/responsibility somehow but that might not be quantifiable.
 
Nurses making 80K ?!?!?!?!

Well good for them. I hope they figure out how to make 100K. Or 150K. I love the nurses I work with and they do a lot of stuff I wouldn't want to do. Why shouldn't they make every cent they possibly can? A big pharma CEO can make 20 mil but a nurse shouldn't make 80K? F that noise. I'm tired of anyone who knocks nurse pay. Or doctor pay for that matter. Every patient and every Huffington post blogger who gripes about your salary would take it in a second if they could get it. You really think if you walked down to the fire station or the auto shop or the basement where the blogger works and offered them six figures, that they'd say, "Oh no, not necessary, I do this out of love for the public". Ha. They'd take every dime in a New York minute. You know it, and they know it.

Maybe we could stand to learn a thing or two from our nurse friends.
I dont mind the pharma ceo making that much. I do have a problem with hospital admins and med school admins making millions though. These people literally do not meaningfully contribute to providing the actual care and make out like pirates. At the very least, the pharm ceo directs develop of a meaningful product (most of the time). Lawyers and administrators are real dead weight in this system.

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Do you have any idea what it is like trying to control a class of 30 first graders? Being on you feet for 8 hours and going home having to do lesson plans and grade papers for another 2-4hrs? Dealing with crazy helicopter parents almost everyday? I'm sorry but teaching is just as hard as nursing, probably harder, you come home everyday exhausted. There in no justification for why nurses are paid so much more than teachers. And for the guy that said teachers get a 4month break, wtf? Maybe 2.5 month break, the other weeks you are working 50-70 hrs.
Do you think Teachers are going to become a largely unneeded profession given modern technology? Has anyone ever thought about that? Literally with prerecorded lectures and complex interactive software and hardware, why do we need people delivering live in person lectures to every child in the country?

Extending these thoughts to med school or just professional school in general, notice how so many of the school-provided lecturers are so low quality compared to the stuff available online (i.e. pathoma). With technology these days, education should be dirt cheap.

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Do you think Teachers are going to become a largely unneeded profession given modern technology? Has anyone ever thought about that? Literally with prerecorded lectures and complex interactive software and hardware, why do we need people delivering live in person lectures to every child in the country?

Extending these thoughts to med school or just professional school in general, notice how so many of the school-provided lecturers are so low quality compared to the stuff available online (i.e. pathoma). With technology these days, education should be dirt cheap.

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I could see getting rid of professors on the professional school level, the students are usually mature and responsible enough to do the work. K-12 schools in this country are honestly a baby sitting service, unless you want to take your 9 year old to work with you or leave your 15 year old daughter alone at home to " do her school work." If you choose to round up all the kids, put them in a place, and let a virtual teacher teach them, then you would still need a proctor and thats just like the schools we have now. College is iffy, most classes could be totally online, but then college isnt just about book learning, its a buffer zone between childhood and adulthood where kids learn how to adjust to being independent and decide what philosophy of life they want to live by. Not to mention K-University teaches us social skills we use in life, home schooled kids are usually awkward, not all of them, but most.

Edit: College also has girls and parties and stuff
 
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I dont mind the pharma ceo making that much. I do have a problem with hospital admins and med school admins making millions though. These people literally do not meaningfully contribute to providing the actual care and make out like pirates. At the very least, the pharm ceo directs develop of a meaningful product (most of the time). Lawyers and administrators are real dead weight in this system.

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You'd be surprised. While a lot of middle managers play with cogs often to just look busy and don't actually improve anything much, CEOs, CMOs, and CFOs can substantially affect the viability of a hospital system. I used to work for the only profitable system in the entire state. That was largely due to much cleverness and forward thinking by our brilliant, educated, and well-connected C-level management. I knock their salaries, but the truth is, we'd lose a lot more than the 10 million they get between them if we were to replace them with some schmuck off the street.
 
All the nurses in my hospitals are lazy ****s. They don't take labs when they're ordered so they never get done unless I go draw them myself. I got a paralyzed lady with a giant 17 inch wide decubitus ulcer that needs to be turned frequently but lazy nurses wont do it so this patient's going to die in the hospital for no reason. I have to draw blood and put in IVs and change dressings in our patients. I used to respect nurses before starting clinical rotations smh
Your decision to write off a whole profession based off a whole profession based on your experiences, which sound biased to say the least.

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Looks more like the nurses are reporting the salaries they wish they had. The only nurses I know who make that much are doing shift work, ICU work, locum tenens, or work more than 40 hours a week. It's also probably not adjusted for nurses who work "on-call" only and are reporting the salaries they'd get if they worked full-time. In the mid-Atlantic region where the average is "77,000", the nurses make $60,000/yr on average.

It's like the numbers Medscape puts up for MDs - only ours read on the low side.
 
I've been around enough nurses on the job to understand that they earn their pay. So, please kids, enough with the resentment of midlevels. Medicine is a team sport.

If the gov't wants to save money on Medicine, they can mandate that Big Pharm spend more on research than advertising.
Or the govt can get out of medicine....
 
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