Average Salaries

[ItsGavinC]

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Gavin is this guy pullin our legs?

WHAT DO DENTISTS START OUT AT AFTER SCHOOL?

Anywhere from 80-120k, typically for a general dentist. A lot of it depends on how much time you are willing to put in. Some jobs are 5 days a week and will work you like a mule. Sure, you'll make 120k there. Others will work you 3 days a week for 80 k.

Lots of variables when it comes to first year income.

 

[Rezdawg]

Da Bomb, making 6 figures right out of school is very common.

In fact, I'd be pretty surprised if a grad comes out and works for anything less than that.


But my real point of posting in this thread...

There are plenty of less desirable avatars on this site such as bigbottomgirl's........she pasted a picture of a big chested girl off of an adult friend finders advertisement (then she let everyone talk about how sexy she looked............loser! ).

Are you serious? That was from an ad? Talk about a letdown.

 

[STARCITY]

Anywhere from 80-120k, typically for a general dentist. A lot of it depends on how much time you are willing to put in. Some jobs are 5 days a week and will work you like a mule. Sure, you'll make 120k there. Others will work you 3 days a week for 80 k.

Lots of variables when it comes to first year income.

Well the only way I would work for 80,000 a year is if I lose one of my hands.

Seriously, I respect myself more than that. 80k is a joke to me.

 

[Mysteree]

STAR CITY-where are you finding all these job listings?? I'd be curious to know the median for a dentist working in CA

 

[STARCITY]

STAR CITY-where are you finding all these job listings?? I'd be curious to know the median for a dentist working in CA

www.dentaltown.com

look under the classifieds section.

 

[Mysteree]

www.dentaltown.com

look under the classifieds section.

Thanks 🙂 Have you noticed how the starting salaries in some states are way higher than others?! I knew there would be differences, but not this much. I was looking at CA and NY.

 

[Dr IWannaBe]

Just in case anyone was curious...I found a link that details the average salaries of 401 different jobs. It provides information about the average number of hours worked in a year and the average hourly wage earned.

http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2006/0313/401_jobs.html?hbx=slide_pay_article

Not too accurate. I'm a music teacher myself, teaching for 7.5 years w/ a master's degree and I still make $10,000 less than what they have listed for music teachers.

-Pre-Dent

 

[FCIllini]

With the $80K-120K numbers being thrown around for a general dentist, do most offices help out with loan repayment as well ... or does your $1000-2000/month payment come out of your paycheck?

If someone is making $100K, roughly 30% will go to taxes, so now you're down to $70K which means about $5833/month. That monthly payment of approx. $1500 will be tough to write out each month unless the practice is helping in some way.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[chordata]

I have heard of a few instances where an office will pay off your loan if you commit to working for them for x amount of years. Of course they also happen to offer you a lower starting salary and the location usually doesn't have a lot in terms of growth potential. (Most dentists/recent grads I have spoken w/ have been paying off their loans via the typical loan repayment plan.)

With the $80K-120K numbers being thrown around for a general dentist, do most offices help out with loan repayment as well ... or does your $1000-2000/month payment come out of your paycheck?

If someone is making $100K, roughly 30% will go to taxes, so now you're down to $70K which means about $5833/month. That monthly payment of approx. $1500 will be tough to write out each month unless the practice is helping in some way.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[STARCITY]

Not too accurate. I'm a music teacher myself, teaching for 7.5 years w/ a master's degree and I still make $10,000 less than what they have listed for music teachers.

-Pre-Dent

THAT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE WILLING TO DO IT>

Ill be glad to underpay my employees too if they are foolish enough to let me.

 

[2dds2009]

Check this website guys...

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSee...977150e32f428486a477d9f7eef9d0-195811260-TN-1


Top Paying Jobs Overall


Physicians and surgeons: $147,000

Aircraft pilots: $133,500

Chief executives: $116,000

Electrical and electronic engineers: $112,000

Lawyers and judges: $99,800

Dentists: $90,000

Pharmacists: $85,500

Management analysts: $84,700

Computer and information system managers: $83,000

Financial analysts, managers and advisors: $84,000

Marketing and sales managers: $80,000

Education administrators: $80,000

 

[runstorm]

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos072.htm#earnings

look under earnings

 

[STARCITY]

Check this website guys...

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSee...977150e32f428486a477d9f7eef9d0-195811260-TN-1


Top Paying Jobs Overall


Physicians and surgeons: $147,000

Aircraft pilots: $133,500

Chief executives: $116,000

Electrical and electronic engineers: $112,000

Lawyers and judges: $99,800

Dentists: $90,000

Pharmacists: $85,500

Management analysts: $84,700

Computer and information system managers: $83,000

Financial analysts, managers and advisors: $84,000

Marketing and sales managers: $80,000

Education administrators: $80,000

Im not working for $90,000 either. That will be insulting.

 

[coolraz]

Ok somebody needs to clear the associate thing up.



There's two ways you can go about it.

1. get paid per day, usually you get paid 400-600/day depending on location. dentists average is 196days/year of work which is four day workweeks (from dental practice magazine) so that's about 78k-117k. HOWEVER, if you work MORE than the average number of days (5 day workweed is about 260 days, no vacation), then your numbers obviously go up to 100k-156k

2. get paid by production. usually you get about 30-34% (again from dental practice magazine and from dentaltown), and the owner dentist pays the lab fees. Then it's totally up to you how much $ you make. If you product 1000$ per day, again with 196 days/yr, you get only 63k. I am not sure how much people usually produce per day starting out, but i'm willing to bet it's a little more than that, probably closer to $2000. So, that translates into 126k. Again, IF you want to work more than four days a week, say 260 days, then your 2000*260=520,000 and 34% of that is 176k.

So as you see, all these averages and other stuff is complete BS because your numbers vary TREMENDOUSLY with the number of days you work per year and how much you produce. I think with the current trend of increasing demand for dentistry, the last example I put up ($2000/day production and working about 250days/yr) can definetely be possible. Plus, usually the owner dentsits gives you a few benefits like free CE, health insurance, dental insurance etc (after all they're making aobut 37% on your production), so really................dentistry is NICE ; )

Hope that helps.

 

[STARCITY]

Ok somebody needs to clear the associate thing up.



There's two ways you can go about it.

1. get paid per day, usually you get paid 400-600/day depending on location. dentists average is 196days/year of work which is four day workweeks (from dental practice magazine) so that's about 78k-117k. HOWEVER, if you work MORE than the average number of days (5 day workweed is about 260 days, no vacation), then your numbers obviously go up to 100k-156k

2. get paid by production. usually you get about 30-34% (again from dental practice magazine and from dentaltown), and the owner dentist pays the lab fees. Then it's totally up to you how much $ you make. If you product 1000$ per day, again with 196 days/yr, you get only 63k. I am not sure how much people usually produce per day starting out, but i'm willing to bet it's a little more than that, probably closer to $2000. So, that translates into 126k. Again, IF you want to work more than four days a week, say 260 days, then your 2000*260=520,000 and 34% of that is 176k.

So as you see, all these averages and other stuff is complete BS because your numbers vary TREMENDOUSLY with the number of days you work per year and how much you produce. I think with the current trend of increasing demand for dentistry, the last example I put up ($2000/day production and working about 250days/yr) can definetely be possible. Plus, usually the owner dentsits gives you a few benefits like free CE, health insurance, dental insurance etc (after all they're making aobut 37% on your production), so really................dentistry is NICE ; )

Hope that helps.

\

I had a filling done and it cost $190.00.

So I would hope to god that a person could do at least 10 a day.

who knows?

 

[Mysteree]

I hope we're atleast breaking the 100K barrier, cause if we end up at some pvt college, which is what it's looking like for me. That montly loan payment's going to bleed me dry!

 

[Da Bomb]

\

I had a filling done and it cost $190.00.

So I would hope to god that a person could do at least 10 a day.

who knows?

The problem is not having the ability to fill ten cavities a day it is having 10 cavities to fill. You can only treat what presents.

As was stated by coolraz and myself a bit earlier...you often earn based on production. Speed x Procedures = money. If you are not fast or do not have the patient population you will not make money. In regard to speed, you will soon see how challenging it can be to produce high quality dentistry fast. Your speed will come with time but dont plan on producing the same as a veteran dentist your first year out. You WILL make money but the big money comes later. Concern yourself less with starting income and more with how much you want to make 5 years out and how you plan on getting yourself to that level. If you are still making 60-80K 5 years out then start to worry.

You may not like what you hear but trust me you are worth no more than what you produce. If you produce crap than that is what you will be paid. Dentists have no inherent value. You are not paid just for existing. When you start your 1st year and drill for the first time you will soon come to value the skill of your profs and other veteran dentists and you will have a better idea of the value of a new grad.

At the request of the easily offended and the quick to offend I have removed my avatar.

 

[STARCITY]

The problem is not having the ability to fill ten cavities a day it is having 10 cavities to fill. You can only treat what presents.

As was stated by coolraz and myself a bit earlier...you often earn based on production. Speed x Procedures = money. If you are not fast or do not have the patient population you will not make money. In regard to speed, you will soon see how challenging it can be to produce high quality dentistry fast. Your speed will come with time but dont plan on producing the same as a veteran dentist your first year out. You WILL make money but the big money comes later. Concern yourself less with starting income and more with how much you want to make 5 years out and how you plan on getting yourself to that level. If you are still making 60-80K 5 years out then start to worry.

You may not like what you hear but trust me you are worth no more than what you produce. If you produce crap than that is what you will be paid. Dentists have no inherent value. You are not paid just for existing. When you start your 1st year and drill for the first time you will soon come to value the skill of your profs and other veteran dentists and you will have a better idea of the value of a new grad.

At the request of the easily offended and the quick to offend I have removed my avatar.

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A DENTAL PRACTICE THAT IS NOT BUSY?

having the patients is not a problem. neither is filling cavities, everyone has them!

If I cant make 100,000 at least in the first year I will just get loans and start my own practice immediately and be poor without a boss too.

 

[Da Bomb]

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A DENTAL PRACTICE THAT IS NOT BUSY?

having the patients is not a problem. neither is filling cavities, everyone has them!

If I cant make 100,000 at least in the first year I will just get loans and start my own practice immediately and be poor without a boss too.

Very good option. The sooner you open up your own practice the sooner you will make big $. If you dont do that and must associate do so with an office you may want to buy and try to stay away from the dental mills. Locally owned offices are always best. No need to support the various McDonalds and Burger Kings of dentistry.

 

[STARCITY]

Very good option. The sooner you open up your own practice the sooner you will make big $. If you dont do that and must associate do so with an office you may want to buy and try to stay away from the dental mills. Locally owned offices are always best. No need to support the various McDonalds and Burger Kings of dentistry.

Man this yahoo has 10 posts and thinks he a genious.


Your crazy, dental mills are great places to learn the first year or so cause you see lots and work hard.

poindexter.

 

[coolraz]

Man this yahoo has 10 posts and thinks he a genious.


Your crazy, dental mills are great places to learn the first year or so cause you see lots and work hard.

poindexter.

It depends on the person. I think an associateship with a private practice will teach you much more about running the business aspect. Also gives you more flexibility. Dental mills are very strict on hours, and if you end up comparing your compensation on hourly or % production basis, you might see that they are also financially non-lucrative.

Be wary of dental mills that promise lots of $. An older friend of mine got such a job that paid 150k but he works 8-6pm m-f as well as on call for weekend emergencies AND one saturday or sunday every other week. His salary is fixed but they keep rushing him to do procedures so he's often doing "bad" dentistry.

Anyway, it's all anecdotal and .... shouldn't we be worrying about stuff like "where will I live in dental school next year?" instead of this long term ****.

 

[Rezdawg]

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos072.htm#earnings

look under earnings

Thats for salaried jobs...meaning academics, government, etc...

Very few dentists go by salary.

 

[superchris147]

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A DENTAL PRACTICE THAT IS NOT BUSY?

having the patients is not a problem. neither is filling cavities, everyone has them!

If I cant make 100,000 at least in the first year I will just get loans and start my own practice immediately and be poor without a boss too.

he's actually making a good point with that post. as an associate you do not always get to choose what procedures you want to do. for example a really busy practice can be really really behind on hygiene so the new associate could get some hygiene work which obviously doesn't pay as much. or they could make you do endo and lets say you hated it in d. school and arn't very fast at it thus lowering your overall production.

however i agree with you on just about everything else, i'd be insulted if i didn't make 100k my first year. i'd rather do a fellowship in implants or something than make 90k

 

[STARCITY]

It depends on the person. I think an associateship with a private practice will teach you much more about running the business aspect. Also gives you more flexibility. Dental mills are very strict on hours, and if you end up comparing your compensation on hourly or % production basis, you might see that they are also financially non-lucrative.

Be wary of dental mills that promise lots of $. An older friend of mine got such a job that paid 150k but he works 8-6pm m-f as well as on call for weekend emergencies AND one saturday or sunday every other week. His salary is fixed but they keep rushing him to do procedures so he's often doing "bad" dentistry.

Anyway, it's all anecdotal and .... shouldn't we be worrying about stuff like "where will I live in dental school next year?" instead of this long term ****.

NO cause I already purchased a house. I would rather talk about how I am going to pay for all this debt.

So you wouldnt rather work a couple of hours more and be rushed for double the money?

Also, I hear all this crap about dentists needing to know how to "run" the business, etc.

Thats what CPAs and Office managers are for. You can read a report and see if your A/R is too high, etc. Leave all that boring work to the contractors YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS TO RUN A DENTAL OFFICE, heck its mostly cash anyhow!

 

[gryffindor]

NO cause I already purchased a house. I would rather talk about how I am going to pay for all this debt.

So you wouldnt rather work a couple of hours more and be rushed for double the money?

Also, I hear all this crap about dentists needing to know how to "run" the business, etc.

Thats what CPAs and Office managers are for. You can read a report and see if your A/R is too high, etc. Leave all that boring work to the contractors YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS TO RUN A DENTAL OFFICE, heck its mostly cash anyhow!

Seriously, aren't you still a pre-dent?

Where are these mostly cash offices? I've worked in several places and patients are more likely to plunk down AmEx before offering you cash.

And before they can get out the AmEx card, they will give you their insurance card to max out any insurance benefits they may/probably do have before forking over anything out of pocket.

Who is the one keeping the office manager in check? Who is the one who will train the office manager? Ummm, you. Ask some practicing dentists and I'm sure they can tell you horror stories of office managers who thought they owned the place.... If you don't know how to run the business, then good luck because knowing all the intricacies of operative dentistry isn't going to help you turn a profit.

Sure an all cash practice can be achieved (although quite rare these days), but it takes time. Don't be expecting to have 6 offers from all cash practices lined up the day you graduate.

 

[STARCITY]

Seriously, aren't you still a pre-dent?

Where are these mostly cash offices? I've worked in several places and patients are more likely to plunk down AmEx before offering you cash.

And before they can get out the AmEx card, they will give you their insurance card to max out any insurance benefits they may/probably do have before forking over anything out of pocket.

Who is the one keeping the office manager in check? Who is the one who will train the office manager? Ummm, you. Ask some practicing dentists and I'm sure they can tell you horror stories of office managers who thought they owned the place.... If you don't know how to run the business, then good luck because knowing all the intricacies of operative dentistry isn't going to help you turn a profit.

Sure an all cash practice can be achieved (although quite rare these days), but it takes time. Don't be expecting to have 6 offers from all cash practices lined up the day you graduate.

DUDE!!!!!

Where have you been in the holler?

hahahah

Seriously, I have never been to a dentist that doesnt make you pay a large sum of cash on the day of the visit.

When I had a crown that was $900 I still have to pay 400 on the day of the visit.

Been that way my whole life and everywhere I shadowed. Sorry you havent experienced dental offices that make money.

 

[jbeaner]

I worked for a dentist, and his dentist friend told us how he laughed at a practice's offer of only 200K. Trust me you can make much more than the median of 130K.

 

[Adam_W]

When you own your own business, "salary" statistics can be scewed very low, since money reinvested into the business comes from pre-tax dollars. Other things can count as business expenses as well, including some vacations, a portion of automobile costs, etc., which all come from pre-tax (thus pre salary) dollars. Some of the wealthiest people are worth very little on paper.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

You should know that the salary advertised for employment is often "inflated" to attract inquiries. You must know that as an associate, your boss is making money off you so don't think that he will hand you that 150K a year while you are having an easy life. Every single excellent offer usually comes with a string attached. I have done at least 15 inquires about these high paying practices and the common theme is not getting paid 160K a year but rather ".. up to 160K a year". If you own your own practice and happen to get in a good location, 200-300K a year or even more is very possible. DP

 

[Baylor83]

You should know that the salary advertised for employment is often "inflated" to attract inquiries. You must know that as an associate, your boss is making money off you so don't think that he will hand you that 150K a year while you are having an easy life. Every single excellent offer usually comes with a string attached. I have done at least 15 inquires about these high paying practices and the common theme is not getting paid 160K a year but rather ".. up to 160K a year". If you own your own practice and happen to get in a good location, 200-300K a year or even more is very possible. DP

I have two friends making barely enough to cover for their expenses in the first few years for practices they individually own.... 😱

 

[coolraz]

I have two friends making barely enough to cover for their expenses in the first few years for practices they individually own.... 😱

Why are you surprised? Most normal businesses run a deficit for the first 5 years !! and only become really profitable after 10! When you start out in dentistry, of course your expenses will be quite high and your income wont be (until you can fill your schedule with patients) but at least you'v already STARTED the process.

 

[food4thots]

I have two friends making barely enough to cover for their expenses in the first few years for practices they individually own.... 😱

just curious.. is their practices in the dallas area?

 

[mdub]

If I found out for sure that dentists only made 85k I would not go to dental school, I promise.

They're probably using some set of salaried (i.e. non-owner) dentists to get their numbers.

 

[mdub]

So as you see, all these averages and other stuff is complete BS because your numbers vary TREMENDOUSLY with the number of days you work per year and how much you produce.

Uhm, no. Averages and medians aren't BS because there are variations. You just have to understand what the numbers mean and why. But that doesn't make them BS.

 

[mdub]

When you own your own business, "salary" statistics can be scewed very low, since money reinvested into the business comes from pre-tax dollars. Other things can count as business expenses as well, including some vacations, a portion of automobile costs, etc., which all come from pre-tax (thus pre salary) dollars. Some of the wealthiest people are worth very little on paper.

Holy confused terms, Batman! Wealth and income are different. One is a stock. One is a flow. Moreover, salary and income are different, AND salary and income can easily be measured without reference to tax results. (For instance, no one cares whether you got a hybrid car tax credit that reduced your taxable income.)

 

[Baylor83]

just curious.. is their practices in the dallas area?

It's in Sounthern California. But these folks are fortunate because of good wives that works in other good paying profession to help support the business.

Based on my research, to dream of making 200 - 300 K a year via your own practice is pretty unreachable unless you're resolved into unethically billing the insurance companies...

Dentist's job is pretty short-lived. Those entering at older ages will eventually find it hard to grow their business unless they have had some form of equity already saved/inherited elsewhere... just my opinion.

 

[Rezdawg]

Based on my research, to dream of making 200 - 300 K a year via your own practice is pretty unreachable unless you're resolved into unethically billing the insurance companies...

"Dream" of making 200K? You gotta be kidding me. For your sake, I hope you are. Maybe within the first few years, but 5 years out and having your own practice should compensate you more than you are thinking.

Grossing over a million a year is extremely possible, unless you plan on working 3 days a week or less. If you gross 1,000,000...figuring in overhead and taxes, you will be left with over 200K. However, you should be grossing more than a million a year...unless you are 5 years removed from dental school, still working at a snail's pace, have zero business mind, and play golf 4 days a week.

I'd redo my "research" if I were you.

 

[1992Corolla]

most of the referring dentists for my dad (OMS) make 400-500K take home. Maybe I can buy one of their practices...

 

[adamlc18]

most of the referring dentists for my dad (OMS) make 400-500K take home. Maybe I can buy one of their practices...

What does your dad pull?

 

[Adam_W]

Holy confused terms, Batman! Wealth and income are different. One is a stock. One is a flow. Moreover, salary and income are different, AND salary and income can easily be measured without reference to tax results. (For instance, no one cares whether you got a hybrid car tax credit that reduced your taxable income.)

👍

 

[aggie-master]

One of the dentists that I shadowed told me that he made in the 175K range working about seven days out of every two weeks, seven hour days, with several small breaks throughout the day and a lunch break. He is an established dentist and he said he very much enjoys his breaks throughout the day and his days off.

The other dentist that I shadow never told me financial info, but his office clearly grosses more than twice what the first dentist does. He shows up early, doesn't take a lunch break, stays late, and is always busy with patients. He also works 5 days a week. If I had to guess I'd bet that he made somewhere in the 300 - 500K range but I really don't know.

 

[fancymylotus]

One of the dentists that I shadowed told me that he made in the 175K range working about seven days out of every two weeks, seven hour days, with several small breaks throughout the day and a lunch break. He is an established dentist and he said he very much enjoys his breaks throughout the day and his days off.

The other dentist that I shadow never told me financial info, but his office clearly grosses more than twice what the first dentist does. He shows up early, doesn't take a lunch break, stays late, and is always busy with patients. He also works 5 days a week. If I had to guess I'd bet that he made somewhere in the 300 - 500K range but I really don't know.

Is dentist #2 the only dentist working in that office? Cause those numbers look about right per office from what I saw on my dads income tax forms(lol), cept he has four or five other dentists that work at each office that he owns. Which obviously means he sees patients like,twice a week and does admin the rest of the time, but still.

 

[aggie-master]

Both dentists own their own office and are the only dentist working there. One has several more chairs than the other, which is part of the reason that he is so busy.

 

[ethical]

If I found out for sure that dentists only made 85k I would not go to dental school, I promise.

That would freakin suck.

You should not go! You have the wrong attitude for dentstry! 👎

 

[dentwannabe]

You should not go! You have the wrong attitude for dentstry! 👎

A lot of us will be POOR in the beginning due to paying off debts and what not.

 

[BallDontLie]

You should not go! You have the wrong attitude for dentstry! 👎

he does kinda have a point though...for how much dental school costs, you better damn well be paid once youre out. i mean id be fine with making 85K a year, but only if dental school didnt cost me 250-300K.

 

[coolraz]

he does kinda have a point though...for how much dental school costs, you better damn well be paid once youre out. i mean id be fine with making 85K a year, but only if dental school didnt cost me 250-300K.

Look, if dental school was free, I would gladly treat all the underserved patients, wouldnt care if I had 50% collections and 12 months of A/R. My focus would solely be to serve those in need. But, this is the USA and everything costs money because everyone earns money. Therefore, because of my 200k debts and 8 years of school I am rightly entitled to getting paid WELL for my services. Thus, no insurance and no delayed/deferred payment in my practice. The ways that I will help the community will be more creative in this case, but will always center around attracting more business.

BTW, if anyone really is dedicated to practicing in underserved areas, use the goverment's repayment program (they only accept like 1 person per year per state though, which I think is ******ed). They pay for your schooling in exchange for an equivalent number of years spent in a specific underserved areas or a comittment to accepting a certain # of medicare patients in your practice. You also obviously keep the $ you make in that practice (but certainly it will be quite low)

 

[CTSballer11]

All the dentists I know, general dents, othodontics, oral surgeons, are all pulling in more than 300k.

 

[CTSballer11]

All the dentists I know, general dents, othodontics, oral surgeons, are all pulling in more than 300k. They all have been in practice for more than 3 years though.

 

[americanpierg]

Look, if dental school was free, I would gladly treat all the underserved patients, wouldnt care if I had 50% collections and 12 months of A/R. My focus would solely be to serve those in need. But, this is the USA and everything costs money because everyone earns money. Therefore, because of my 200k debts and 8 years of school I am rightly entitled to getting paid WELL for my services. Thus, no insurance and no delayed/deferred payment in my practice. The ways that I will help the community will be more creative in this case, but will always center around attracting more business.

spoken like a true resident of a nation run by a capitalist economy. communism looks good on paper, but as we can see when put into practice, it doesnt turn out so goody goody. indeed this is the usa, and whether u want to admit it or not, money is everything