Average salary of IM and FP as of TODAY?

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noonespecial

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According to Salary.com for West Coast it's 150k for FP and 170k for IM. Is that accurate?
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I guess I had to also mentioned that it depends if you work for hospital(where salary will most likely be 120-150 range or your own practice where in the end it will be same since you have to pay malpractice insurance that costs 30-60k a year depending where you live.
 
doxycycline said:
what about emergency medicine?
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check out both links above and find out. I guess you can average the 2 numbers you will find. It's funny how it's the same company that does survey but have 2 completely different reports.
 
noonespecial said:
I guess I had to also mentioned that it depends if you work for hospital(where salary will most likely be 120-150 range or your own practice where in the end it will be same since you have to pay malpractice insurance that costs 30-60k a year depending where you live.
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If you're working for a hospital group, you're not paying your own malpractice insurance. Not unless its a really really weird setup you have going there.

As for the OP's question, it varies widely depending on where you are and what you're doing. The range will probably be $140-220k or so, with the lower end being in places lots of people want to live (LA, NY) and the upper end being in relatively rural areas. (Relatively rural being it. I'm from Fresno, CA, a town with 500,000 people, and starting salaries are pretty respectable because the surrounding area isn't as desirable.)
 
Raryn said:
If you're working for a hospital group, you're not paying your own malpractice insurance. Not unless its a really really weird setup you have going there.

As for the OP's question, it varies widely depending on where you are and what you're doing. The range will probably be $140-220k or so, with the lower end being in places lots of people want to live (LA, NY) and the upper end being in relatively rural areas. (Relatively rural being it. I'm from Fresno, CA, a town with 500,000 people, and starting salaries are pretty respectable because the surrounding area isn't as desirable.)
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yes I did mentioned that, but hospitals pay less as well so in the end you end up with same salary. As for location, I don't think that is necessarly accurate. West Coast and East Coast have different standard of living and most people get higher salaries in those places because of that. Relative popularity of certains geographic territories doesn't affect sallaries of doctors, it might affect the bonus though.
 
noonespecial said:
yes I did mentioned that, but hospitals pay less as well so in the end you end up with same salary. As for location, I don't think that is necessarly accurate. West Coast and East Coast have different standard of living and most people get higher salaries in those places because of that. Relative popularity of certains geographic territories doesn't affect sallaries of doctors, it might affect the bonus though.
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Uh, no.

First of all, you *can* earn substantially more in private practice, but only if you're willing to work a lot more. When people talk about salaries, they talk about their *net* salaries, not their gross salaries without malpractice taken into account. Hospital based work is usually a lot more stable.

As for relative popularity of geography not affecting income, thats utterly wrong. For example look at how much a psychiatrist would earn in NYC as opposed to a relatively rural area. (Hint: the supply of psychiatrists is *way* higher compared to the demand in NYC) The relationship holds true for just about every specialty (with the caveat being that some specialties can't survive in areas without a large number of people, just because of being *too* specialized)
 
I recall a med student from South Dakota saying that you can make really big bucks as a doc in the badlands of South Dakota. That is because it is hard to find docs who want to practice in the badlands of South Dakota, so it is a supply and demand issue. Of course, the downside is that you have to live in the badlands of South Dakota.

But I would not want to live in Fresno, either.

It is true that you can become too specialized for a rural practice. I am planning on becoming a pediatric ear nose and throat surgeon. It would be hard to practice my specialty in rural South Dakota. Not enough kids that would require my services.
 
Raryn said:
Uh, no.

First of all, you *can* earn substantially more in private practice, but only if you're willing to work a lot more. When people talk about salaries, they talk about their *net* salaries, not their gross salaries without malpractice taken into account. Hospital based work is usually a lot more stable.

As for relative popularity of geography not affecting income, thats utterly wrong. For example look at how much a psychiatrist would earn in NYC as opposed to a relatively rural area. (Hint: the supply of psychiatrists is *way* higher compared to the demand in NYC) The relationship holds true for just about every specialty (with the caveat being that some specialties can't survive in areas without a large number of people, just because of being *too* specialized)
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um you are wrong, no one talks about how much they bring home. They talk about gross. I never heard any salary study where they asked peopel how much they bring home after all deductions.

as for location, you might be correct but studies and data shows a different story. NY and CA average physician makes more.
 
noonespecial said:
um you are wrong, no one talks about how much they bring home. They talk about gross. I never heard any salary study where they asked peopel how much they bring home after all deductions.

as for location, you might be correct but studies and data shows a different story. NY and CA average physician makes more.
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They talk about gross as in not counting taxes. But they do deduct all operating expenses such as malpractice insurance. Not considering malpractice beforehand would be like a practice talking about their earnings before paying the receptionist/nurses/buying supplies. Not to mention the vast majority of doctors (anyone not working in a solo/tiny practice) pay their malpractice insurance as groups anyway. Before take home pay.

All those salary numbers consist of how much you will get paid with the only difference between that and the amount of money you put in your bank account being payroll/income taxes.

And please, show me your data saying that any individual specialty (say, IM or FP, since thats what we're discussing here. or anything else you) earns more in a large city than a smaller one (note: city. not state)
 
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noonespecial said:
I guess I had to also mentioned that it depends if you work for hospital(where salary will most likely be 120-150 range or your own practice where in the end it will be same since you have to pay malpractice insurance that costs 30-60k a year depending where you live.
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In California, a family medicine doctor in private practice told me he pays 8K a year
 
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I have a stupid question. Who pays the ER doc? Do they bill the patient (or patients insurance) directly or does the hospital pay them hourly?
 
http://www.hschange.com/CONTENT/725/#ib3

http://www.medicuspartners.com/pdfs/Rural_vs_City_2-5_Article.pdf

According to these sources urban physicians BARELY make more than rural physicians. And both articles agree its not more once cost of living is taken into account.

However, my understanding is similar to Raryn's in that I've been told there are lots of opportunities to sign contracts to stay at a particular rural hospital for x number of years and either the government will pay your loans back for you during that time or pay you an additional stipend on top of your salary. I have heard of lots of new physicians choosing to go to the middle of nowhere for 4 years and be paid through the nose for it (for example a EM doc I knew went somewhere in texas and was being paid over 400k, a FM doc in kentucky was being paid 250k well over the average of a family medicine doctor). Ultimately, being willing to go to nowhere can pay big.
 
xanthomondo said:
I have a stupid question. Who pays the ER doc? Do they bill the patient (or patients insurance) directly or does the hospital pay them hourly?
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There's different compensation models, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7932553&postcount=1 has the best explanation.

Summary: Either a straight monthly wage (rare), an hourly wage (common), whatever you/your group bills for your patients, or a share of what the group bills for everyone's patients. (the latter two being less common than the hourly wage but more common than the monthly wage)
alwaysaangel said:
http://www.hschange.com/CONTENT/725/#ib3

http://www.medicuspartners.com/pdfs/Rural_vs_City_2-5_Article.pdf

According to these sources urban physicians BARELY make more than rural physicians. And both articles agree its not more once cost of living is taken into account.

However, my understanding is similar to Raryn's in that I've been told there are lots of opportunities to sign contracts to stay at a particular rural hospital for x number of years and either the government will pay your loans back for you during that time or pay you an additional stipend on top of your salary. I have heard of lots of new physicians choosing to go to the middle of nowhere for 4 years and be paid through the nose for it (for example a EM doc I knew went somewhere in texas and was being paid over 400k, a FM doc in kentucky was being paid 250k well over the average of a family medicine doctor). Ultimately, being willing to go to nowhere can pay big.
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I applaud the sources, but one thing to remember is the urban numbers are slightly higher (not actually statistically significant according to the second source) in part because of a different mix of specialties. Those urban ortho spine surgeons earning $1m do bring up the average for the urban areas. I still say that any individual specialty will earn far more in a less desirable area than a more desirable one. This has been what pretty much every single physician I've talked to both here in WI and back home in CA has told me. The cost of living being far lower is just icing on the cake for the benefits of being a rural physician. (Obviously though, a lot of people want to live in LA, NY, the bay area, etc. I'd be perfectly fine to end up back home in Fresno a decade from now, earning more and paying less for my living expenses)
 
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Raryn said:
I applaud the sources, but one thing to remember is the urban numbers are slightly higher (not actually statistically significant according to the second source) in part because of a different mix of specialties. Those urban ortho spine surgeons earning $1m do bring up the average for the urban areas. I still say that any individual specialty will earn far more in a less desirable area than a more desirable one. This has been what pretty much every single physician I've talked to both here in WI and back home in CA has told me. The cost of living being far lower is just icing on the cake for the benefits of being a rural physician. (Obviously though, a lot of people want to live in LA, NY, the bay area, etc. I'd be perfectly fine to end up back home in Fresno a decade from now, earning more and paying less for my living expenses)
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Yeah I agree with you. I have been told the same thing by all my attendings. I was looking for sources to agree with you and end the argument and found these instead :-/ But my understanding is that you make more gross income in rural areas than in urban areas.

And you are right, the papers do not adjust for the different number of specialists in the areas and that likely accounts for the higher urban numbers. Its sort of surprising there isn't clearer data available that shows the local differences for particular specialties.
 
Doublecortin said:
In California, a family medicine doctor in private practice told me he pays 8K a year
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maybe a month, thats BS.
I have 2 doctors in my family practicing in california, one pays 45k a year and the other 55. It depends how much you insure for as well. for 8k a year, you have maybe 25k in insurance (which in medical claim terms doesn't mean jack ****).
 
noonespecial said:
here is a good article for those who think malpractice insurance is only 10k a year..
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/14/news/economy/health_care_doctors_quitting/index.htm?cnn=yes
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Read your own article. While the OBGyn (practically the worst specialty for malpractice) in FL (worst state for malpractice. by far. especially for OBGyns) was paying $125k malpractice, the dermatologist was apparently paying $2500 a year (sounds low even to me, but its *your* article).

Note: The obgyn specifically says she was paying the malpractice out of her office budget, and thus she had to cut back on her salary. i.e. her reported salary went down. Still goes to show that the salaries are *after* paying for operating expenses.
 
How much you pay in malpractice depends on your state, your specialty, and to some extent, claims experience. In my state, non procedure oriented (IM, Neuro , Derm pay between 15-20k per year for the standard 1M per occurrence/3
3M aggregate policy. General surg, Uro, maybe pay 50k and the high risk specialties may be 100-125K. per year. If you are employed by a large entity, this is probably covered by your employer. If you are in private practice, it is an overhead expense just like the rent, office staff salaries, etc.
 
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