Average Step 1 Score for Psych

[sarahjay]

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Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone knew the average step score for applicants applying to psychiatry?


Thank you in advance.

 

[chameleonknight]

Median score was 208 in 2007.

Not sure about 2008 applicant data yet, but I would guess it will be a shade higher. 2008 was an up year for psych with a lot of extremely competitive applicants joining the ranks. And of course, if you have your heart set on MGH/McLean, Columbia, etc. you should have above average 'everything' (grades, step scores, letters of rec)

Way too early to worry about this stuff btw. Just do your best at whatever stage of training you are in.

 

[sarahjay]

Thanks Chameleon Knight. I guess I should change my status to medical student. It's been a long time since I've posted on SDN! I'm about to take Step 1 in about a month, and I was just wondering about the averages. 🙂

 

[chameleonknight]

Oh, in that case go ahead and panic.

Vomit if you need to. We'll wait.

 

[sarahjay]

There aren't any vomiting smilies, but I guess this one comes closest.

 

[Indryd]

There aren't any vomiting smilies, but I guess this one comes closest.

 

[JimZflam]

I know someone with a 185 that was accepted to a good program.

 

[2tall]

I know someone with a 185 that was accepted to a good program.

Yea...just do your best...but make sure you pass! 👍

 

[ForensicPsych]

Would a score of 214 be good for psych residency programs? Any thoughts?

To JimZflam - where was that person accepted to? do you mind sharing?

 

[psymed]

Psych has gotten more competitive. People with average scores do match but a lot of programs are setting up score and years since graduation cut offs.

Make sure you come across as genuinely interested in psychiatry. Psych programs have been burnt by residents opting for it as a backup and then transfering to another specialty after a year or so

 

[whopper]

2008 was an up year for psych with a lot of extremely competitive applicants joining the ranks.

I don't know if anyone's done any investigation as to why this trend has happened.

My own theory is 2 things have happened.
1-people are having a more open mind to mental illness, and as are result, psychiatry is being seen in a more positive light.
2-medstudents are realizing that perhaps working over 80 hrs, making a few million a year while their trophy wife divorces them, get custody of the kids, & take over half the money while being in bed with the postman actually isn't a good thing.

There have been some recent published articles mentioning both. I have read an article in Clinical Psychiatry News backing a study for point 1. It came out a few months ago, but I already read it and put it in the recycling bin. Sorry, don't have a more specific reference. As for point 2, the NY Times printed an article about how medstudents are having new perspectives on working incredibly difficult hours till the end of their career.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/07/us/young-doctors-and-wish-lists-no-weekend-calls-no-beepers.html

I would expect for average USMLE scores to go up because of this. Remember, everything up until the interview is a mechanical filtering process. With hundreds to thousands of applicants per program, they're not going to have the time to read every single LOR, personal statement, etc. Scores for better or worse are used in the filtering process.

I still think there will be niches in psychiatry where you don't have to have stupendous scores to get into good programs. Several programs have operated on a mindset to look deeper than scores because psychiatry for years has had several open spots after the Match, and its a field where several things are needed that the USMLE just can't gauge. Paradigms don't change overnight, and IMHO USMLE scores are overrated. I've seen too many people do well on it who were terrible & vice versa--do bad, but were great clinicians. However I'd expect this paradigm could change if applications continue to go up.

 

[PreciousDaughte]

Would a score of 214 be good for psych residency programs? Any thoughts?

To JimZflam - where was that person accepted to? do you mind sharing?

You could def match somewhere with a 214, but where would depend on where you go to med school and what else you've done.

 

[Indryd]

You could def match somewhere with a 214, but where would depend on where you go to med school and what else you've done.

I have some interest in this statement. Do go on.

 

[peppy]

One other caveat is to be aware that Step 1 scores are only part of the application.
I had a step 1 score well above the average for psych but didn't match into any of the programs I interviewed with. I assumed incorrectly that my step 1 would mean I'd surely get into one of my top 3 choices and became complacent enough to cancel some of the interviews. Don't make that mistake. The Step 1 really isn't as make or break as we all tend to think (for some of us that's a good thing and some it's a bad thing 🙂 )

 

[silas2642]

Do you think that it helps if your school is in the area of the residencies that you're applying at? I'm currently attending school in Boston and would like to stay here/in the northeast for residency and I'm really interested in Longwood as I hear (mostly from this forum/Doc Samson-- ahem!!) that they are extremely strong in psychotherapy. I know that they tend to work you hard, but I certainly don't mind that.

I'd also like to check out Cambridge and see what the buzz about that program is about.

 

[VMSmith]

I have some interest in this statement. Do go on.

Ivies like Ivies. Even in psych.

 

[Indryd]

Ivies like Ivies. Even in psych.

Not what I was hoping to hear.

How about "west coast programs love the 'Best of the Best'😉"?

That's what I'm hoping to at least partially bank on. Coming from a school with a slogan that is also the title of a cheesy 80's martial arts film.

 

[PreciousDaughte]

I have some interest in this statement. Do go on.

Studies show that the best predictor of performance in residency is tier of medical school attended. Step 1 and 2 scores are predictive of how well you will do on your specialty boards and somewhat predictive of resiliency performance. There is also the pride factor where a program looks good if all of it's residents went to top 5 medical schools.

But I don't mean to start a debate on board scores - it's been talked about a million times on this board.

A 214 will not hold the OP back from matching. But where he/she would match depends on a lot of other factors - probably the largest of which is medial school attended. A 214 + HMS is a lot different than a 214 + Dr. Nicks's Hollywood School of Medicine - Paraguay campus.

 

[notdeadyet]

Studies show that the best predictor of performance in residency is tier of medical school attended.

Do you have a source for this? Just curious. I'd never heard this before. I'm dubious.

A 214 + HMS is a lot different than a 214 + Dr. Nicks's Hollywood School of Medicine - Paraguay campus.

No, actually the 214 is exactly the same. That's the point of the standardized test. A 3.5 GPA from Dr. Nick's and Harvard are different, but a 214 shows that students did equally as well on their step.

I wouldn't get too hot and sweaty about it. Last published data I saw shows an average Step 1 of 208. Folks are talking about a big upswing in applicants, but this could largely be a similar number of folks applying to a higher number of residencies. The "higher calliber" of applicant could be reflective of the fact that med schools have been creeping up in competitiveness for admission for the last several years.

If your heart is set on going to a top 5, big name residency, it's going to be competitive in literally every field. But for right now, psychiatry is one of the less competitive residencies as a whole, and from program directors I've talked to, it's a field that seems to seriously look at whole applicant rather than a series of tick boxes on an app.

 

[PreciousDaughte]

Do you have a source for this? Just curious. I'd never heard this before. I'm dubious.

No, actually the 214 is exactly the same. That's the point of the standardized test. A 3.5 GPA from Dr. Nick's and Harvard are different, but a 214 shows that students did equally as well on their step.

I wouldn't get too hot and sweaty about it. Last published data I saw shows an average Step 1 of 208. Folks are talking about a big upswing in applicants, but this could largely be a similar number of folks applying to a higher number of residencies. The "higher calliber" of applicant could be reflective of the fact that med schools have been creeping up in competitiveness for admission for the last several years.

If your heart is set on going to a top 5, big name residency, it's going to be competitive in literally every field. But for right now, psychiatry is one of the less competitive residencies as a whole, and from program directors I've talked to, it's a field that seems to seriously look at whole applicant rather than a series of tick boxes on an app.

I understand what you're saying about standardized tests - that's true in theory but not in practice. For example, many competitive residencies will simply not interview non-US allopathic grads. It's simply screening. So yes, where you go to medical school really does matter a lot when applying to certain programs. I couldn't find the study I was talking about earlier but it's out there. Here's an EM study I found just by googling.

But a 214 is definitely above average is psych and the poster will not be held back by this score.

 

[notdeadyet]

I understand what you're saying about standardized tests - that's true in theory but not in practice. For example, many competitive residencies will simply not interview non-US allopathic grads. It's simply screening.

Agreed. Some allopathic programs will screen based on US vs. non-US med school degrees. Some folks have complained that some allopathic programs screen based on allopathic vs. osteopathic degree (though I get the impression these programs are much more rare).

So yes, where you go to medical school really does matter a lot when applying to certain programs.

I buy that. I just don't buy the notion that a 214 at one school is different from a 214 at another. Those two applicants will be viewed as performing the same on the Step I. The applicant from the higher ranked medical school might be held in higher esteem, but that's based on their school, nothing to do with their Step I.

I couldn't find the study I was talking about earlier but it's out there. Here's an EM study I found just by googling.

From my read of the study, one of the theories is that students from top tier medical schools performed better in residency than students from lower tier medical schools. But unless I'm missing something, factors like LORs and USMLE scores were taken into account after breakdown by med school attended.

So it seems to really find that USMLE scores and LORs have a factor on residency performance. I'd be curious to see residency performance based on students from top tier vs. lower tier schools who had equivalent LORs and Step I scores. Without filtering for that, you're essentially judging the effect of scores and letters, not really school tier.

But a 214 is definitely above average is psych and the poster will not be held back by this score.

Amen to that. And unless someone feels otherwise, I get the impression that unless you're applying to a top academic program, your school of attendance will probably not limit your residency options, yes?

 

[lilnoelle]

What step 1 score makes one competitive for some of the more competitive programs?
I'm pretty interested in WashU for instance.

 

[ForensicPsych]

wow...lot of replies! and all of them are helping me to see different points of views, so thanks!

i don't think i'll have a chance at big name schools like NYU or columbia or mount sinai and schools like that with a 214.

but i am wanting to get into psych residencies at schools in the other NYC areas like brooklyn, bronx, long island and places like that. and i have heard that in those areas, they do accept a LOT of FMG's. so with my stat thus far, being from a U.S. med school...would that be possible at least? any comments would be nice.

and i am starting my 3rd year rotations on monday; and does anyone have advice on what i should do from NOW until i start applying to residencies to increase my chances of looking better as an interviewee? such as, whether electives at those schools would be a good idea, or research in one of my electives? or certain things i should do like joining student interest groups in psych, etc?

please...any thoughts would help very much! thank you all!

 

[VMSmith]

Oh you should definitely apply to Columbia, Cornell, Sinai, and NYU, don't let your Step 1 score dissuade you from doing so. But of course you should apply to several others as well if you're really set on doing your residency in NYC.

As far as electives, doing a few at some of the aforementioned schools would probabl yhelp you - you should start the application process for those early next (calendar) year. Student interest groups don't really mean anything. You need to be able to articulate your interest in psychiatry in an interview and be able to talk about the field at least at a basic level, which you can accomplish by reading a bit on your own (there are book suggestion threads on this forum).

 

[billypilgrim37]

i don't think i'll have a chance at big name schools like NYU or columbia or mount sinai and schools like that with a 214.

I have a friend who got about a 205 (maybe 207 or 209, can't remember) at Cornell, and a friend that got a 240+ at NYU. They both came from top 15 med schools, and they both were amazing applicants regardless of their board scores. These programs were each their second choices.

Med school matters a lot. There are plenty of people from middle-to-low tier med schools at very good programs, but coming from a top 10 or top 20 school means something. Coming a solid school local to the program means something. It probably means more than your step 1 score. Nothing you can do about that now, and it shouldn't discourage you, but don't be surprised when someone with worse grades and worse scores at a better school matches much better than you. The fairness of this is debatable, and where you fall in the debate inevitably correlates to the prestige of your med school. Such is life.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

I had a 241, an even better step 2 (that was in ERAS by sept 1), a master's degree, and prior research, but went to a 'lower tier' medical school. I didn't even get an interview from UCSF, MGH, and Columbia. Hard to believe that medical school didn't factor into that.

 

[Tradewind]

I think Masterofmonkeys got really unlucky (or lucky, depending on how you look at it) or there is something else we're missing. School name matters, but not that much. This is *not* a typical outcome. Though I suppose it's good to hear about these horror (?) stories, so that you go into the match process with both eyes open.

MoM, you know you are loved on this forum.

 

[notdeadyet]

I still question the idea that going to a top med school is any kind of a requisite for getting into a top residency program.

For the psychiatry programs folks have been mentioning, I did a quick hunt on their entering residents to see how many went to top 10 schools.

UCSF: 8/16 or 50% (of which 2 were UCSF grads and 3 were Stanford)
Columbia: 2/12 or 17% (both of whom went to Columbia)
Washington U: 0/9 or 0%

(The resident list for MGH didn't list med schools and the "current" resident list for WashU looked a year out of date)

So I don't really see how not attending a top med school is going to cripple anyone's chances. Most of the residents in these programs seemed to come from pretty average schools (maybe UCSF leaning more towards "prestige"). Judging from residency lists, they skew much more towards region than reputation; their list favors their own and those from nearby schools.

I think that maybe Psych programs are telling the truth when they talk about the importance of "fit". The applicant with lower numbers from a better school may have just been judged to be a better addition to the program.

From the lists I've seen, even at the best psych programs there are plenty of successful applicants who did not go to "top schools".

 

[DrFraud]

Studies show that the best predictor of performance in residency is tier of medical school attended. Step 1 and 2 scores are predictive of how well you will do on your specialty boards and somewhat predictive of resiliency performance. There is also the pride factor where a program looks good if all of it's residents went to top 5 medical schools.

I couldn't find the study I was talking about earlier but it's out there. Here's an EM study I found just by googling.

Studies also show that students who go to top tier medical schools often make false claims and cite unknown studies to bolster their own egos. (I uhhhh unfortunately can't find any of these well known studies at the moment ) 😕

 

[strangeglove]

You're all talking about board scores and med school reputation. But the thing that actually matters the most is your performance in the 3rd year core clerkships, especially internal medicine, surgery, pediatrics, OB-Gyn and, of course, psychiatry. Your Dean's letter, which will include reference to your performance in these clerkships, will be the primary factor in determining whether you get an interview at a top-tier program. Going to the most highly ranked medical school or getting a really high Step 1 score will not guarantee you an interview at any of the "top 5" programs (unless it is your home institution or you are an MD-PhD). By the same token, students from "lower tier" schools get into top residencies because they distinguish themselves with their clinical work, not with their board scores or their pre-clinical grades. Top residencies want people who will make good doctors and, to a lesser extent, good researchers, not merely good test-takers.

Oh, and your personality matters, too, in psychiatry. That's one of the functions of the personal statement.

 

[Tradewind]

Yes, for sure, more subjective data like the applicant's clinical performance and essay matter.

But most applicants who have >240 board scores at least get interviews, unless there are red flags in the clinicals, dean's letter/LOR's or essay. Red flags could include negative comments in LORs or clinicals, failing courses or possibly not getting enough honors esp in psychiatry, medicine.

The vast majority of applicants don't have concerning essays, and there are only a small handful of applicants with super strong board scores but very weak clinicals. These applicants do not typically apply to psychiatry. And when they do, they probably at least get interviews, then get rejected at that stage when their poor interpersonal interactions become apparent.

There are also occasionally really unlucky (or lucky) people.

 

[nancysinatra]

I think it is fair enough that the med school a person attends is taken into consideration, because it reflects something, however skewed, about the applicant before they attended medical school. ERAS lops people off before medical school and includes no data prior to MS1. A person could, for whatever reason, not have done great on the measures used to assess performance in medical school but, on the other hand, might have really been stellar as a premed and gotten into a top tier med school that way. Maybe just as in college they'll really shine as a resident. There are a lot of reasons why this could happen. Of course it's debatable how good a reflection med school name is of premed quality, and it's just one thing about a person, and it's farther in the past than med school, but I'm just saying it's a reflection, and ERAS certainly leaves this out.

In fact I sometimes think it's odd how people talk about qualifications for being a doctor as if a board score were the ONLY thing, like we didn't have more of a past than MS1... I wonder why ERAS cuts off at med school actually, whereas AMCAS made me dig up my SATs if I recall...

 

[abcxyz0123]

AMCAS never asked for anything prior to undergrad (I filled out AMCAS this time two years ago). If they let me put down my SATs or ACTs id be a happy man.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

I think Masterofmonkeys got really unlucky (or lucky, depending on how you look at it) or there is something else we're missing. School name matters, but not that much. This is *not* a typical outcome. Though I suppose it's good to hear about these horror (?) stories, so that you go into the match process with both eyes open.

MoM, you know you are loved on this forum.

Eh, I still ended up with a funded research track position at a well-respected program so it's not like it turned out horribly. Pretty darn happy with where I ended up.

Just putting it out there that nothing is guaranteed. It really sucks to get your hopes up, and not even get an interview from the three schools you were most enthusiastic about.

 

[notdeadyet]

AMCAS never asked for anything prior to undergrad (I filled out AMCAS this time two years ago). If they let me put down my SATs or ACTs id be a happy man.

AMCAS doesn't require it, but a couple of med schools do. I really didn't want to apply twice, so I applied to a whole grip of schools and I think only two asked for my SATs. I called each school, because I took the SAT so long ago that I couldn't order results online. Each school admitted that the SATs were not used for admission purposes but only for reporting. I told them I wouldn't be sending them in and they were cool with that.

Just putting it out there that nothing is guaranteed.

Amen to that.

 

[2tall]

While I'm sure I had similar concerns when I received my Step 1 score, I really don't see the point of dwelling on something you can't change. There ARE horror stories, but I'd like to believe there are hopeful ones as well. If your score is avg for psych (below avg for all specialties)...what does that mean? ...you won't/shouldn't apply to top-tier schools. I'm sure everyone had there share of reach schools for the med school application process. This is no different. The process will tell you where you fit. If you don't get interviews, it's not meant to be.

Every applicant should evaluate their strengths and weaknesses. For any specialty it's best to explore, discover, and show your interest early on. Start at home. Make sure your department knows you. If you settle on psych during August of your 4th year, you've obviously got some scurrying to do. Your personal statement better be spot on.

I don't foresee psych being as competitive as ortho anytime soon nor do I see the mean Step 1 for psych residents jumping to 220. While the number of applicants has increased hasn't the number of AMGs applying for a spot remained relatively the same?

'Get in where you fit in.'

 

[DrFraud]

Maybe the PDs I have spoken with are a reflection of what most PDs think, maybe not, but here is the take I have gotten so far, and this applies for most areas of medicine, not just Psychiatry.....

There is no one formula that programs use that will guarantee that a candidate with an xyz score or xyz med school to insure that an interview is granted at a specific program. Usually, a combination of Board Scores, LORs, Clinical Grades, and the school attended are considered valueable indicators. In addition, intangibles including personal statements, not having any holes/absent/contradictory info on a CV, etc also can affect decisions. And then there is the unspoken about stuff like IMG status/DO status (because a program does not want to get a bad rep for accepting too many), the sex of an applicatnt (not wanting to have to deal with residency interuptions) and even if the applicant is bilingual (to communicate with a specific patient population commonly seen at a given program) or prefering traditional or non-traditional grads. The intangilbes can vary from program to program just like a culture can vary from job to job.

Its always a mistake to expect that programs will automatically grant interviews because one component is strong but the more strong attributes that a candidate has increases the chances that a candidate will get more interviews and interviews at highly ranked programs.

 

[whopper]

Do you think that it helps if your school is in the area of the residencies that you're applying at?

It can give an edge. When ranking candidates, if the program has reason to believe a person may rank the program higher, all things being equal (ATBE) vs other candidates on a similar standing, then the program will likely rank that person higher.

The reason why is because programs want happy residents, and also want to maximize their chances of getting the person they want. If someone for example has a lot of family in the area, lived in the area, or give other strong reason to be in that area, programs know the person is more likely to be happy, they're already familiar with the area (so the shock of a new environment is less to nothing), and they will likely rank the program higher.

How much of an edge? Well IMHO (at least from the dynamics of my program, and ATBE), it'd give an edge not so much in giving an interview, but in ranking a candidate.

The selection for interviews are quite mechanical in the first few filters. Scores (USMLE & medical school), then after that a very brief & superficial overview of the personal statement that is only weeding out simple things such as spelling errors, poor grammar, or red flags such as a criminal history, etc.

By the time it gets down to the interviews, that's when it gets actually much more personal, and things like where the person lived is taken into account.

By the time it gets to the rank list--it gets very personal. Content of interviews are discussed, discussions whether or not a person will be happier or not etc.

Despite what I mentioned, this is ATBE. My program has accepted people that were very out of the norm. One resident for example we had turned out to be one of our best, and this was despite poor grades & failing USMLE multiple times. We were willing to take the risk because someone we knew & trusted was willing to stake his reputation on this person recommended him. Turned out that person was very right. The resident was excellent, he just seemed to have a knack for doing bad on multiple choice tests, but his knowledge was solid (and he was a hard worker with a sincere passion for psychiatry). We also had plenty of people with great scores who turned out to be the worst residents.

For myself--when I applied into fellowship, I was denied my #1 spot because I was told that the candidate who beat me was older & had 8 children (no kidding). They saw us as equal, but saw the other person as needing to get his career going earlier. They offered me a spot for the following year. They actually called me up and told me before the decision was made that it really was down to me vs him, and they were highly conflicted. They were taking a lot of things into consideration such as whether or not we wanted to settle in the area, our personal interests etc.

Scores despite being perhaps the most accurate predictor still have their failings. Unfortunately for many, they will only get the indivdiualized attention if they can make it past the interview & into the final round where ranking occurs.

 

[nancysinatra]

the sex of an applicatnt (not wanting to have to deal with residency interuptions)

This would be illegal. If this is going on people should be very concerned. Where did you get this information if it is in fact accurate? You said you spoke to PDs but I doubt any PDs would say this. If it is "unspoken" like you said, then how would you know it is happening? Are you just saying this to be provocative?

If you really are privy to information like this, couldn't you even be subpoenad and required to testify about it if it became a court case? I don't think you can just blithely go around saying that residency programs violate federal and state laws like it was some normal thing they are entitled to do as one of their "soft" strategies. Unless residency programs are above the law which I'd be very interested to know. Maybe they could publish this on their websites or something.

 

[BobA]

I think Masterofmonkeys got really unlucky (or lucky, depending on how you look at it) or there is something else we're missing. School name matters, but not that much. This is *not* a typical outcome. Though I suppose it's good to hear about these horror (?) stories, so that you go into the match process with both eyes open.

MoM, you know you are loved on this forum.

I'm sorry but have you looked at the residents at Columbia, UCSF, and MGH? If they don't come from a "top 10" school then they have a PhD.

I was an outstanding applicant on paper with very high board scores, previous work as a counselor, and several awards in medical school (a Top 40 NIH-funded school) but did not get interviews at any of these places.

UCSF, Columbia, and MGH love nepotism.

 

[Tradewind]

I'm sorry but have you looked at the residents at Columbia, UCSF, and MGH? If they don't come from a "top 10" school then they have a PhD.

I was an outstanding applicant on paper with very high board scores, previous work as a counselor, and several awards in medical school (a Top 40 NIH-funded school) but did not get interviews at any of these places.

UCSF, Columbia, and MGH love nepotism.

versus

What does it take to be competitive at a top program? Any thoughts about the need to do away rotations to be more competitive at a "top" program?

Basically, I'm an average student with average board scores at a well-ranked medical school. Also, I worked as an untrained residential mental health counselor for several years prior to medical school.

I know there have been several posts about which program's at the "top" and how little the pathology-based step 1 has to do with Psych, but I'm a real-world candidate wondering what tier program I might look at. Also, I'm trying to decide if I need to do an away. So I'd love to hear what people thought about how one matches into the UCSF's and Harvard's of the world.

?

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm sorry but have you looked at the residents at Columbia, UCSF, and MGH? If they don't come from a "top 10" school then they have a PhD.

Where are you getting this from, out of curiosity? Read my post a few posts up. In spite of what folks say, even the top programs have a wide range of med schools in their residencies, and very few Ph.D.s.

The most recent listing of Columbia's entering resident class (which looks to be out of date) shows 2/12 coming from top 10 med schools (both of them coming from Columbia). None have a PhDs.

UCSF's most recent listing shows 8/16 from a top 10 school (of which 2 were UCSF grads and 3 were Stanford). None have PhDs.

No listing of med school for MGH's residents.

So apparently you don't need to come from a top 10 med school or have a Ph.D. to get in to even the toughest residencies (though I'm sure it would help). If anyone knows of programs out there in which you do, please point to a link of the program. We keep hearing about them but it looks to be just paranoid rumor when you actually look them up.

 

[billypilgrim37]

So apparently you don't need to come from a top 10 med school or have a Ph.D. to get in to even the toughest residencies (though I'm sure it would help).

That's definitely true. I'm not sure if my comments way up there were the ones that gave that impression. There aren't THAT many candidates from top schools going into psych (when 10% of your graduating class matches into ophthalmology, you get a sense of that school's student's priorities). Most candidates, and even most GOOD candidates, are from middle tier schools. And so, even at the top places, the list of school names isn't just going to be an ivy league role call.

However, the candidates that match at top programs that aren't from top tier medical schools are stellar candidates. To some degree, people that went to top medical schools did so because they were able to distinguish themselves somehow before medical school, and it's silly to think they wouldn't be able to do the same during medical school, even if that means, in the end, they're pretty average (or even below average) at their medical school.

 

[ProfessorPeanut]

I'm confused: Why does it seem like we're assuming that the Ivies, or other "top" universities (whichever ones they are), have stellar psych programs/departments? And isn't also the case that the stellar-ness (forgive me for creating a word) of a psych program will depend on what you (an individual unlike anyone else applying at the same time) want to study, see, research, etc.?

What are the top places for psych residency anyway? Where is this information coming from and how in the world was it generalized?

 

[Doc Samson]

Studies show that the best predictor of performance in residency is tier of medical school attended.

From what I recall, studies have shown the ONLY predictors of performance in psychiatry residency are grades on IM and psychiatry clerkships - I have the refs for this somehwhere, just to tired to look them up right now.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Here's the study that got so much press a few years ago about med school as a predictor of performance, at least if you're in San Diego and an EM resident.

 

[RRGirl]

I had a 241, an even better step 2 (that was in ERAS by sept 1), a master's degree, and prior research, but went to a 'lower tier' medical school. I didn't even get an interview from UCSF, MGH, and Columbia. Hard to believe that medical school didn't factor into that.

MOM fell victim to being overqualified. They prolly decided that it was the "backup plan"

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

versus



?

Dissociation?