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Discussion in 'Clinicians [ RN / NP / PA ]' started by emedpa, Dec 9, 2005.
"Full-time PAs worked an average of 44.0 hours a week for their primary employers."
"The mean total annual income from primary employer for PAs working at least 32 hours a week at their primary clinical job was $81,129 in the 2005 census."
Now i KNOW i picked the wrong profession.
Haha! Are you a DO? You work about 60 hours a week minimum I assume
To emedpa and others:
Does this mean that PAs who work 60+ hours/week make $160K+? This is the equivalent (if not more than) most primary care docs! Is this figure higher for specialist PAs (dermatology, surgery)?
Is it common for PAs to have two jobs?
For your first question, the answer is generally yes. Here's a specialty report (income info included) if anyone is interested.
Second question..Eighty-five percent of respondents reported working exactly one clinical PA job; 15 percent work more than one clinical PA job concurrently.
if you follow monica's link you will see that the mean for em pa salaries for 32-40 hrs is around 90k. if an em pa wanted to work 60 hrs a week 125-150 k+ wouldn't be out of the question without a bonus. many pa's who work in places with a bonus structure make > 110k for a 40 hr week and a real go-getter in this scenario can make close to 200k. I work in a 12 pa em group with bonus structure and the slowest guy in the group makes 110k for a 35 hr week and the fastest(not me) probably makes around 200 k for 60-70 hr/week( the guy works almost every day of the month. probably takes off 3 days/month. it is not unheard of for a surgical pa to make this kind of money as well. the top pa surgical salary I have heard
of is 250k for a guy who did a pa surgical residency and had 25 yrs of experience with the same cardiothoracic surgical group in which the docs all make 500k+/yr
these salaries are by no means typical and represent the top 10% or so of pa's working in selected specialty fields(surgery, em, ortho, derm).
Jeez, that's awesome for PAs!
also consider 125-150k goes a lot farther with no student debt or minimal student loans.....and no need to buy malpractice as it is always worked in as a benefit.....and no need to pay any ovwerhead unless you run your own clinic(which is an option for pa's now in several states- you just hire a doc to review the min # of charts required and refer out anything you are not comfortable with.)
Dammit...should I just drop out of med school!?
Which states allow PAs to practice independently with minimal supervision (have doc sign min # of charts)?
many...the 2 I am most famailiar with are ca and nc
ca requirement: only charts for which a sch 2 narcotic was written require cosignature
nc: 30 min meeting with an md every 6 months to discuss the practice. no chart review required. pa may be 100% owner of a clinic.
also..oregon allows for 10% of charts as chosen by the pa to be reviewed within 1 month.
most staes allow a pa to work at a clinic without an md present on site. some of these states still require 100% chart review but it occurs after the fact.most states at this point do not require 100% chart review. 10-25% is the most common arrangement.
When I'm done with this chiro gig and get out of PA school I can finally retire to NC my home state. Of course by then there will be 500,000 PA's and the average salary will drop to my abismal salary of $40K a yr. Just kidding, I think being a PA is a great profession short of being a physician and I look forward to being able to make that change.
How is your chiro gig going?
soo...how would one go about becoming a PA?
haha, but really. I'm only in undergrad so if anything I could become a PA if med school doesn't work out? I'm looking for nice alternatives if I dont do med school...unless i need to either way, hence my first question
most premeds wouldn't get into pa school as prior medical experience is an important prereq at most quality programs. also there are several course requirements at a typical pa program not taken by the typical premed....but if you happen to be a premed who is an emt and have taken psych, a+p with labs, microbiology, etc check www.aapa.org for info on the pa profession
apology for hijacking the thread.
alright, your proposition further side tracks me. Would it be possible to attain EMT certification during summer months, winter break..ect.. while doing undergrad as a comprehensive microbiology major (...for pre-med)? so long as necessary classes are offered in the summer I could take them at a local tech college (its a really good one actually) and Assuming I could get hired during summer months it would make a great job/learning experience that med school would enjoy- or the aforementioned PA idea.
schoolastic/time/sleep suicide? or something to look into? I'm really trying to get ideas as to what will give me the advantage in the medical feild during undergrad. Mind you, im only a freshman, but a determined one at that...
I took a+p I (I haven't taken a+p II yet) through the tech school my senior year of HS (bought the book because I loved it). I took AP psyc in HS am taking psyc next semester...that being said it doesn't seem impossible. Just really really hard.
Do you know what NY's requirements are as far as chart review and practice ownership?
Qualifications: Graduation from approved PA program and NCCPA examination.
Application: By PA for state registration.
Scope of practice: Medical acts and duties delegated by the supervising physician, within the physician's scope of practice and appropriate to the PA's education, training, and experience.
Prescribing/dispensing: PA may prescribe Schedules III-V and non-controlled medications. PA prescribers of controlled drugs must register with the DEA.
Supervision: Physician not required to be physically present at time and place where PA performs services. Inpatient medical orders must be cosigned within 24 hours.
Participation in regulation: At least two PAs appointed to medical examining board.
New York State Board for Medicine, Office of the Professions, State Education Bldg., 2nd Floor, Albany, NY 12234; (518) 474-3817.
Once again, I know I'm picking the right career. Sweeeeeet.
(I might have just had my first-ever 4.0 semester, by the way.)
feb- pay a visit to physicianassistant.net
it is a pa specific forum with subforums relevant to most specialties. I'm preferential to the the em forum though....
congrats on the 4.0
I think that your plan would actually be very feasible...Actually, if you are interested, you should look into Marquette's PA program. It is a Master's program which is definitely a plus since the PA profession is headed in that direction for new graduates. It is also a very undergrad friendly program (you do still need 500 hours of healthcare experience), but it is an excellent program and the past several years they have had 100% pass rates for the certification exam, and been in the 90+ percentile in the country. You can check it out from the MU homepage (www.mu.edu). Now, I must disclose that I am a second year there...
Regardless of if you decide to go the MD or the PA route, I think that anyone would agree that having healthcare experience not only makes you a better candidate for med school or PA school, but it ultimately makes you a better clinician. Experience really makes a difference initially in having confidence around patients and knowing how to conduct yourself in the healthcare environment. Good luck with whatever you decide.
checkout the medical college of ohio too!
also a master's program, and i think there is something to be said about a program that is part of an actual medical school.
Why in God's name would an MD agree to that kind of arrangement. Thats suicide city in this lawsuit culture.
An MD's malpractice coverage for that kind of arrangement would be astronomical. One lawsuit (even if unsuccessful) and the MD would lose all coverage.
I think if you have 100% owner of a clinic you should also have 100% liability and be responsible for your own malpractice insurance..I have no problem with physician assistant wanting more autonomy...however, I think it should come at the price of more liability as well
pa's who own their own clinics DO pay their own malpractice as well as buy a policy for their supervising md and any employees they have who deliver clinical services. I know several folks in this situation....
Just so no one has to search (or go to the link above) for the answer to the "How much can I make in this specialty" question:
Mean Salaries (for PAs working at least 32 hrs per week)
CT Surgery- $99,134
Plastic Surgery- $82,825
Pediatric Oncology- $79, 924
Medical Cardiology- $79,660
Pediatric Subspecialties- $77,223
FP/General Practice- $76,171
Surgical Oncology- $75,538
Peds Cardiology- $75,479
Medical Gastroenterology- $74,422
Radiation Oncology- $74,179
Medical Endocrinology- $71,327
Peds Gastroenterology- $71,252