AVMA 2018 Graduate Debt/Salary Survey

[VetMed81]

Hi all. Current veterinary medicine student here. I searched but did not find any posts regarding this survey/article about 2018 graduates. Was wondering what people thought of it and if it closely matched the experiences and numbers that any recent graduates here were experiencing. A couple things stuck out to me.

"The mean full-time starting salary for new graduates was $81,571 in 2018, not counting those pursuing advanced education. The figure was weighted to account for salary disparities in geographical regions and cost-of-living variations between urban and rural practices. It represents a 7.1% increase from 2017, in which the mean full-time starting salaries for new graduates was $76,130."

The number reported for new graduates entering practice seems surprisingly good. I do wonder what exactly their weighting system entailed. According to this, it's not unreasonable to expect to make 80-90k as a bright new graduate working in companion animal exclusive in a decently sized city. Is that what you all are experiencing? In addition, the average debt is increasing, which we already knew. This number is being inflated somewhat due to the fact that LMU and Midwestern just graduated their first class and are quite pricey, particularly Midwestern.

AVMA survey: 2018 graduates earn more, owe more

Education debt outpaces earnings; questions about data persist

news.vin.com

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[Minnerbelle]

Hi all. Current veterinary medicine student here. I searched but did not find any posts regarding this survey/article about 2018 graduates. Was wondering what people thought of it and if it closely matched the experiences and numbers that any recent graduates here were experiencing. A couple things stuck out to me.

"The mean full-time starting salary for new graduates was $81,571 in 2018, not counting those pursuing advanced education. The figure was weighted to account for salary disparities in geographical regions and cost-of-living variations between urban and rural practices. It represents a 7.1% increase from 2017, in which the mean full-time starting salaries for new graduates was $76,130."

The number reported for new graduates entering practice seems surprisingly good. I do wonder what exactly their weighting system entailed. According to this, it's not unreasonable to expect to make 80-90k as a bright new graduate working in companion animal exclusive in a decently sized city. Is that what you all are experiencing? In addition, the average debt is increasing, which we already knew. This number is being inflated somewhat due to the fact that LMU and Midwestern just graduated their first class and are quite pricey, particularly Midwestern.

AVMA survey: 2018 graduates earn more, owe more

Education debt outpaces earnings; questions about data persist

news.vin.com

In my area (relatively high cost of living area, median house price ~$400k, but not NYC or SF crazy), totally reasonable.

2018 grads with 1 yr experience have been getting offers in the 110-150k range. I just saw a listing for 150-200k, new grad encouraged to apply in the city.

I’m guessing the 2020 grads are getting minimum >90k + likely sign on bonuses in my area. Even as a brand new grad, I probably wouldn’t take a job for less than 85k here, and I’d be doing even that with the understanding that I’m probably making lower than my peers.

sad thing is, clinics can’t really afford much more than that unless they increase their prices because at the end of the day they only have enough cash to pay employees as they pull in from their service revenue. So it’s not like your salary grows far beyond the $150k often no matter how long you’ve been working. There isn’t too much room for growth. There’s such fierce competition to hire that I think clinics are willing to risk losing some money initially as an investment.

 

[that redhead]

I agree with @Minnerbelle that a large part of that seemingly high number may be more reflective of the current market than anything else. The competition is fierce for landing an associate right now so even a new grad can expect or ask for higher salaries. But I also agree that you’re unlikely to see much salary growth over time. Production-based pay may help, as I think pretty much any new grad is going to be bringing in a lot less than someone even a few years out of school, but that also depends on the employer’s pay structure (percentages, services included, do they ding you if you don’t hit certain numbers, etc). I still think it beats the hell out of an internship though!

 

[Minnerbelle]

I agree with @Minnerbelle that a large part of that seemingly high number may be more reflective of the current market than anything else. The competition is fierce for landing an associate right now so even a new grad can expect or ask for higher salaries. But I also agree that you’re unlikely to see much salary growth over time. Production-based pay may help, as I think pretty much any new grad is going to be bringing in a lot less than someone even a few years out of school, but that also depends on the employer’s pay structure (percentages, services included, do they ding you if you don’t hit certain numbers, etc). I still think it beats the hell out of an internship though!

As far as production goes, I think how busy the practice is is the greatest determinant of how much you can make within the practice more than anything else (assuming that you are capturing your charges). While a brand new grad is going to be less efficient in the beginning, it doesn’t take long to catch up in that regard. The biggest thing is if you need to build up your clientele because there aren’t enough patients to fill up all the appointment slots or if your practice is busy enough that you have more patients than you are able to handle. My highest grossing year was believe it or not my first year in general practice (6 months after graduation where I had developed efficiency). Busy highly leveraged practice with high fees. I didn’t need to be the best doctor to make really good production. I just had to be the most willing to see fit in appointments.

but if you get hired into a 1 dr practice that doesn’t have the caseload for 2 full doctors, you’re going to be hurting big time if you go on production. Currently I get paid more than I should be getting based on production for this reason, and am glad to be straight salary with a **** ton of vacations I don’t feel guilty taking because my take home isn’t affected by it at all.

 

[that redhead]

As far as production goes, I think how busy the practice is is the greatest determinant of how much you can make within the practice more than anything else (assuming that you are capturing your charges). While a brand new grad is going to be less efficient in the beginning, it doesn’t take long to catch up in that regard. The biggest thing is if you need to build up your clientele because there aren’t enough patients to fill up all the appointment slots or if your practice is busy enough that you have more patients than you are able to handle. My highest grossing year was believe it or not my first year in general practice (6 months after graduation where I had developed efficiency). Busy highly leveraged practice with high fees. I didn’t need to be the best doctor to make really good production. I just had to be the most willing to see fit in appointments.

but if you get hired into a 1 dr practice that doesn’t have the caseload for 2 full doctors, you’re going to be hurting big time if you go on production. Currently I get paid more than I should be getting based on production for this reason, and am glad to be straight salary with a **** ton of vacations I don’t feel guilty taking because my take home isn’t affected by it at all.

Very true- there’s only so much you can make with lower costs to clients, limited appointments and a clientele that doesn’t understand the value of good medicine. My first and second jobs are only like 7 miles apart but the quality of medicine is much higher at my second place, costs are higher AND clients are more willing to do both the more involved stuff as well as more preventative health stuff because we educate them. At my first, production based job I was able to bring in good production despite not maximizing my charges (which is of course in retrospect) because the percentage given was crazy high. I definitely made more the further I went along as clients came to like and trust me even if they’d been seeing Older Doctors for years.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

In my area (relatively high cost of living area, median house price ~$400k, but not NYC or SF crazy), totally reasonable.

2018 grads with 1 yr experience have been getting offers in the 110-150k range. I just saw a listing for 150-200k, new grad encouraged to apply in the city.

I’m guessing the 2020 grads are getting minimum >90k + likely sign on bonuses in my area. Even as a brand new grad, I probably wouldn’t take a job for less than 85k here, and I’d be doing even that with the understanding that I’m probably making lower than my peers.

sad thing is, clinics can’t really afford much more than that unless they increase their prices because at the end of the day they only have enough cash to pay employees as they pull in from their service revenue. So it’s not like your salary grows far beyond the $150k often no matter how long you’ve been working. There isn’t too much room for growth. There’s such fierce competition to hire that I think clinics are willing to risk losing some money initially as an investment.

Wow that sounds like a lot better outlook than I was anticipating.
Do you know what board certified vets make in the area?

 

[Minnerbelle]

Wow that sounds like a lot better outlook than I was anticipating.
Do you know what board certified vets make in the area?

No clue. But I think it also depends entirely on which specialty, and in which setting (private practice vs. academia vs. mobile).