avoiding the application freak out

[shock-me-sane]

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I think I have walked into my high stress zone today. I requested all my GRE scores to be sent on Monday. Today I submitted my first online application. Granted I have a ton of paperwork to send them (need to finish the SOP, order transcripts and fill out school specific forms).

I am excited and feel sick at the same time. I am only halfway done on one school and have 14 more to go. It feels like game time and I need to keep myself sane until at least Dec 1 which is my first deadline.

I say we just commiserate here and share the stress 😀

 

[Squarepants]

Yeah, these are interesting times. I'm applying to ~4 schools, have submitted the online portions to 3 of them (not to the 4th, as it requires an online submission of the PS), and am currently trying to convince three people (grad student, professor, professor) to write me letters. I was hoping to get *everything* done by mid-November, but now I'm not sure at all. Overall though, I'm kind of pleased to have started. I hadn't done *anything* beyond taking the GREs as of last Saturday. Over Sunday, I started a PS, trimmed my school list, and began seriously looking at the whole process. I figure while I'm in LOR Limbo, maybe I should send out transcripts and whatnot. I don't quite have the time-span you do though, as my first deadline's in November. Oh well. It'll get done.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I am very much in that mode (but for internship). I have 4 of my 5 LOR back, though I still need to get signatures. I am applying to certain sites that require specific recommendations from research faculty, thus the extra letters. My last LOR...and my most important one(!!!) won't even get written until 7 or less days before my first deadlines because of her hectic schedule. I planned everything pretty far in advance, so that saved me some hassle.

And then there are the essays and whatnot....blah.

-t

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Yeah, these are interesting times. I'm applying to ~4 schools, have submitted the online portions to 3 of them (not to the 4th, as it requires an online submission of the PS), and am currently trying to convince three people (grad student, professor, professor) to write me letters. I was hoping to get *everything* done by mid-November, but now I'm not sure at all. Overall though, I'm kind of pleased to have started. I hadn't done *anything* beyond taking the GREs as of last Saturday. Over Sunday, I started a PS, trimmed my school list, and began seriously looking at the whole process. I figure while I'm in LOR Limbo, maybe I should send out transcripts and whatnot. I don't quite have the time-span you do though, as my first deadline's in November. Oh well. It'll get done.

I'm sure you've heard this a billion times but you may want to re-think having a grad student as a letter of rec. I know it's tough in undergrad to get to know any of the profs but it's really better than using a grad student.

 

[Squarepants]

I'm sure you've heard this a billion times but you may want to re-think having a grad student as a letter of rec. I know it's tough in undergrad to get to know any of the profs but it's really better than using a grad student.

Yeah, this is the part I've been wondering about. Is it better to get a letter from a professor not in psychology whom I didn't really interact with from a class I took years ago than to get a letter from a psych grad student in a lab I've been working in constantly though? I mean, if it's really a no-no, I'll try to find a third professor, but I'm having a hard time seeing why grad schools would prefer an impersonal letter from a prof I barely knew from a class ages ago over a current letter from someone I work with daily. How's this work?

 

[JockNerd]

Yeah, this is the part I've been wondering about. Is it better to get a letter from a professor not in psychology whom I didn't really interact with from a class I took years ago than to get a letter from a psych grad student in a lab I've been working in constantly though? I mean, if it's really a no-no, I'll try to find a third professor, but I'm having a hard time seeing why grad schools would prefer an impersonal letter from a prof I barely knew from a class ages ago over a current letter from someone I work with daily. How's this work?

My experience, and I mentioned this in another thread, was that my honours thesis seminar prof specifically said "It's a bad idea to use a grad student as a letter-writer." What I remember of what else she said (I might not recall correctly because I wasn't in that circumstance) was that it can look bad, and that if you have two great letters from profs just add another prof who can say a bit about you, or a work supervisor or such. That prof has been on faculty at my school for a while, so my feeling is that that's at least a fairly widely-held stance. But, maybe she's nuts; I'd ask some faculty at your school for their opinions, maybe.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Always try for faculty, though if you do go with the grad student, make sure they can speak to SPECIFIC areas of your work. It really needs to be a strong letter for it to be submitted. If your two other letters are strong, then it will be less of an issue.

-t

 

[Squarepants]

See, that's the thing. NO ONE knows more specific details about my work - particularly my work in a research lab than my grad student, as he's directly responsible for advising me, and I basically work on his projects (which he publishes papers on with the lab prof) throughout the term. So again, that's why I'm finding it really hard to believe that an anonymous, impersonal letter from someone who earned a PhD in a field wholly unrelated to psychology and wouldn't be able to recognize me in an elevator could possibly write a better letter for me than someone I work with on a daily basis. I don't know. I'm going to have to go with my gut on this one. I hear "don't use a grad student", but I still haven't heard any actual reasons as to why the impersonal non-psych professor letter would be better. It's like telling someone to choose one brand of cereal over another without offering any reason besides saying not to use brand B.

 

[JockNerd]

that's why I'm finding it really hard to believe that an anonymous, impersonal letter from someone who earned a PhD in a field wholly unrelated to psychology and wouldn't be able to recognize me in an elevator could possibly write a better letter for me than someone I work with on a daily basis. I don't know. I'm going to have to go with my gut on this one. I hear "don't use a grad student", but I still haven't heard any actual reasons as to why the impersonal non-psych professor letter would be better. It's like telling someone to choose one brand of cereal over another without offering any reason besides saying not to use brand B.

My only reason was "Someone on my faculty said it looks bad." I'm not saying it's a good or a bad reason, but it was a reason given by someone who *is* on faculty, and she was emphatic about it. My feeling of the implied reason was a combination of what T4C said on another thread about the grad student not really being capable or judging because he/she isn't a prof, and also that applicants *should* be cultivating those relationships with profs. Again, I'm not saying it's a good or bad reason; it's just what I've heard a senior faculty member say.

 

[psychanon]

A common practice is to have the grad student write it and the faculty signs it, as the if the letter is from the prof. Similarly, often times, the prof will ask the grad student for information to write the letter. I was in the same position as you, where I worked primarily with a grad student, and I got a letter from the prof.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A common practice is to have the grad student write it and the faculty signs it, as the if the letter is from the prof. Similarly, often times, the prof will ask the grad student for information to write the letter. I was in the same position as you, where I worked primarily with a grad student, and I got a letter from the prof.

Just to clarify....it'd have to be from the prof on the project. This happens frequently, especially since the coordinators tend to meet with the head prof, and then they meet with their students who handle the data collection. So if you can get the head professor to sign off on the feedback from the grad student, you should be good to go.

-t

 

[socialcog]

A common practice is to have the grad student write it and the faculty signs it, as the if the letter is from the prof. Similarly, often times, the prof will ask the grad student for information to write the letter. I was in the same position as you, where I worked primarily with a grad student, and I got a letter from the prof.

This is what I am doing as well. My grad student has met with the PI (who I never ever see) and gives her either comments or a letter to sign and the PI signs it.

 

[bookworm06]

Ugh. I wish that applying to graduate school were like applying to law school. One centralized service and you just click a button and all your information goes to the school. Its like a second job just to figure out what to send where for which school.

 

[socialcog]

Ugh. I wish that applying to graduate school were like applying to law school. One centralized service and you just click a button and all your information goes to the school. Its like a second job just to figure out what to send where for which school.

No kidding. They need to hire a consultant to re-engineer the system so the process can be more streamlined and simple!!! 😉

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

No kidding. They need to hire a consultant to re-engineer the system so the process can be more streamlined and simple!!! 😉

I use to do work like that...they can hire me. 😀

-t

 

[socialcog]

I use to do work like that...they can hire me. 😀

-t

YOUR HIRED!! (....pro bono).😛

 

[yikes]

i'm curious why it looks bad to have a grad student write a recommendation. is it because it makes it seem like you don't have connections to professors? do you think the size of your school makes a difference? I've decided to have a grad student write it regardless, but I'm still wondering.

 

[Ollie123]

Lots of reasons why its generally not a good idea.
1) Academia is largely about networking. Graduate students are "generally" unknown at this stage since they probably haven't published anywhere near as much as the professor.
2) Sort of ties into #1, but prestige. Bigger names are generally more impressive. Unless you have a grad student who is about to graduate and published something miraculous for their thesis, they aren't likely to be a big name.
3) It makes them wonder if you weren't involved in the lab heavily enough to get to know the professor
4) It makes them wonder to what extent the grad student is an advisor vs. a "friend" since you are likely closer in age and certainly closer in academic achievement at that point.
5) Since its pretty common in situations where the professor doesn't know the student well to have the grad student write at least part, if not all of the letter and then have the prof sign it, schools will wonder if the professor has an express reason to NOT recommend you and thus you had to move down the ladder.

I could come up with more reasons if I tried, but those are the big ones. Don't think it has anything to do with the size of your school, I went from a huge university to another huge university (where its often considered "harder" to get to know profs) and everyone was still very vocal about not having grad students write lettersOne grad student letter is not necessarily fatal(though more than one likely is), don't get me wrong, but I think its best to avoid whenever possible, especially since LoRs are one of, if not THE most important factor in acceptance - everyone I know says they are much more important than GPA, GREs, or anything like that.

 

[socialcog]

I just discovered that many of my schools require a departmental application in addition to the graduate school application. The departmental online applications were up and running much after the graduate dept online application were up.

Yikes. This almost got under my radar. I have been neck-deep in GRE subject test study--I wasn't paying attention.

All of you prospects out there......heads up!

 

[bellecalle]

socialcog, same with me! Just more work.. Also, another huge thing to be paying attention to is how each school wants their transcripts and LOR sent.. some want it in the packet with the rest of the stuff, some want it directly from UG. I'm also finding a lot of conflicting info on a lot of the program's websites.. Like one part says to send all materials to the grad school, whereas another part of the same website says to send it all to the psych department.. hm..

Anyway, I'm trying to be as organized as I can with this whole process, since keeping track of everything for the 13 schools that I'm applying to ain't so easy.. I made an excel file of things like deadlines, whether or not psych GRE is required, GRE code, address to send things to, how each school wants their transcript, how the LOR will be (online or paper and where to send it), info on the personal statement.. It only took me a couple of hours to compile everything make it, and it's turning out to be a great tool as I whip it out and look at it all the time.. i think organization is key to not freaking out. maybe. 🙂

 

[zeldazelda]

Just finished a first draft of a general personal statement. Yea! I am very happy with it (at least tonight anyway). It will, of course, have to be adapted for each program but that should be easier then getting "the meat" of it done.

I have all my recommenders lined up and packets of information (including the personal statement draft) will be in their hands or in the mail to them tomorrow.

Piece by piece it is coming together.

 

[bellecalle]

just submitted 2 applications for phd clinical programs!! so 2 down, 11 to go, which will all be done in the next 2 weeks despite some having 1/1 deadlines.. it feels good to get things in an entire month early tho.. slowly but surely it is all coming together.. 🙂

 

[ktwallis]

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[Therapist4Chnge]

okay.. so rec letters from grad students = not ideal

what about rec letters from post-docs. any opinions on that?

A post doc will have their degree/credentials (though not licensed), so that should be fine.

-t