Away rotations / Electives

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hj0517

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Hi there,

I'm a student at the University of Manchester, UK.

Just need some advice re: electives and what to do as I am getting quite a few rejections going through official channels i.e. NYU and Jefferson and just to apply costs a lot of money so I have decided to harness the power that is SDN!

Does anyone have any tips with regards contacting faculty members? I am interested in rotations in medical specialties.

I am a pretty good candidate in terms of academia (including USMLE) but in this instance its who you know and not really what you know that counts!

Thanks guys and girls!

Niche thread but hope there's somebody out there with a pearl of wisdom :)

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Hi there,

I'm a student at the University of Manchester, UK.

Just need some advice re: electives and what to do as I am getting quite a few rejections going through official channels i.e. NYU and Jefferson and just to apply costs a lot of money so I have decided to harness the power that is SDN!

Does anyone have any tips with regards contacting faculty members? I am interested in rotations in medical specialties.

I am a pretty good candidate in terms of academia (including USMLE) but in this instance its who you know and not really what you know that counts!

Thanks guys and girls!

Niche thread but hope there's somebody out there with a pearl of wisdom :)

Have you been applying for electives or observerships?

I can tell you that, as a student from a European med school, you're going to have a lot of trouble getting an elective anywhere. Most schools will only accept students from other LCME approved schools (i.e. MD schools in the US or Canada) or AOA approved schools (DO schools). This is generally because of malpractice coverage - as a student at an LCME approved school, my school covers me in case of a malpractice lawsuit. As a student coming from the UK, your school probably doesn't cover you.

Have you asked about observerships?
 
If you are talking about electives, they usually is no way except going through official channels. Getting electives usually is not about who you know, because there is a standardized process in place that usually requires going through the Registrar's office of the school that is affiliated with the hospital/clinic you are doing the rotation at. As smq mentioned, it is likely going to be more difficult for you to get electives, since you are not from a U.S. medical school. Generally, the students from that school will get first dibs then it goes next to US M.D. or D.O. medical students, then lastly to FMGs. I think the one exception is Canadian medical students seem to get lumped in with the US medical students for some schools. Good luck!
 
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From someone who has actually done what you are inquiring about:

it is NOT nearly impossible or difficult as intimated above and many US medical schools allow foreign students the chance to do final year elective rotations. German students often come and do their entire 16 weeks of Praktisches Jahr here.

First, try and analyze why you are being rejected.

Is your application complete? An incomplete application will be rejected.

Are you applying for 3rd year Core rotations instead of electives? Most medical schools do not allow students to do anything but electives.

Are you a final year student? Unless your school has a formal relationship with a US school, most programs restrict foreign clerks to those in their final year of medical school. And yes, you MUST still be a student (ie, you are not eligible for rotations once you have graduated).

Do you have malpractice/medical liability and health insurance good in North America? There are a very few programs that will provide it for you, but most expect that your school pays for it or that you do out of pocket (if you can get it AND afford it).

Do you have evidence that you have all the required immunizations?

Are you able to get a visa?

You must be in good standing in your school and some programs require a transcript and documentation that you are in the top percentages of your class.

Secondly, as noted above, most schools will fill their electives with their own students and visiting clerks get last choice. Therefore, are you being rejected because of the issues I've listed above, or because the elective was simply full? These are two entirely different problems.

Choosing less popular electives (ie, superspecialties, not Sub-Is) will increase your chances of getting a position. Choosing a less popular time of the year (ie, not July - October) will increase your chances.

Lastly, you CAN go around official channels. For example, at the time I applied UVA and Hopkins did not allow foreign clerks to rotate unless you were sponsored by a faculty member. There was no "process" for getting that sponsorship.

Therefore, I simply looked at the faculty in the departments in which I wished to rotate, found their emails (many faculty have email listed on their program web site or you can figure it out [email protected]), contacted them and was told they would be happy to sponsor me. Truth be told, some did not respond and another told me he did not sponsor foreign students. But all I needed was 1 person to say yes, so it worked for me. Once they agreed, they helped me get approved.

UCSF does not take foreign clerks either. But since I used to work there, I was able to get around that requirement. Obviously this isn't something you can work, but if you do have any US connections it wouldn't hurt to have them contact people to see what can be done. Clearly if you do not meet the program's requirements you still won't be able to rotate, but if you are a final year student, passed USMLE Step 1, have malpractice insurance, you should meet the minimal requirements of most programs.

There is a lot of work involved in doing this, sending long-distance FAXes (although I recommend scanning all your documents into a PDF file and sending it via email if requested). I am not the only one who has done this, so I suspect that my experience is not "one off".

Consider smaller programs...while Jefferson isn't exactly big like NYU, any of the better known places are going to get much more applications, from US students and abroad. The University of Louisville, is a surgical powerhouse, but isn't well known outside of the US or for that matter, even outside of surgery within the US. They are well known for taking foreign clerks (although they do not take Caribbean students). Some of the best known surgeons in the US work there and at the Kleinert-Kutz Hand Institute in town. So, perhaps scale down the "prestige" factor as you might see it (I see a lot of foreign students spend a ridiculous amount of money to apply and rotate at Harvard and other name places. Its not necessary.)

So try and understand why you are being rejected and go from there.

best of luck to you...
 
Just to add that Winged Scapula has it spot on. If you don't know US faculty already (as I didn't when applying for electives) then get to know some! Emailing and sounding keen worked well for me. Don't be too modest when emailing - there is a much more sensible attitude of honesty over excess modesty in US compared to here in the UK. Ie, if you've done something that shows you're committed to the specialty of the doctor you're emailing then say so! Tell them why they ought to want to take you. They won't ask! Once the course director of the elective you want to do has said yes then its very straightforward to get it past the registrars.
Good Luck!
 
Thanks WS and allymunro - you've both hit the nail on the head with that advice. Thanks for the info to smq and bitsy but I feel you fell onto the FMG bandwagon wholeheartedly! I'm still a student and as such from the UK it isn't impossible to do our electives in the US (and yes I did mean elective aka 4 week rotations in final year).

I think I will take your advice allymunro and WS and enquire with faculty, I have emailed faculty at temple and am awaiting a response (Philly would be ideal as I have an apartment there).

Thank you very much for your help with regards lines of enquiry WS, I have literally everything down to malpractice insurance and so on so all that is not going to be an issue at all
 
Thanks for the info to smq and bitsy but I feel you fell onto the FMG bandwagon wholeheartedly!

:confused:

For the record, I don't have anything against FMGs. When applying for student electives, I thought that I remembered seeing many places state preferences for students from LCME schools. Sorry for any misinformation.

I think I will take your advice allymunro and WS and enquire with faculty, I have emailed faculty at temple and am awaiting a response (Philly would be ideal as I have an apartment there).

I hope you find something at Temple. Sorry that Jefferson didn't pan out - even as a Jefferson student, I got locked out of a lot of electives. There are just a LOT of students, and limited spaces. :(

Have you also looked into the community hospitals in Philadelphia? Einstein is a very good place to learn, as is Methodist, Pennsylvania Hospital, and Lankenau. They're all easily accessible by public transportation, if you don't have a car. Cooper, in Camden, is another very good hospital (easily identifiable by the huge poster of Kelly Ripa's face) that is a 15 minute subway ride from Center City Philadelphia. If Temple doesn't work out, those places may be good alternatives.
 
:confused:

For the record, I don't have anything against FMGs. When applying for student electives, I thought that I remembered seeing many places state preferences for students from LCME schools. Sorry for any misinformation.

It wasn't misinformation, just a little too "black and white". Some programs do give preference to students from LCME approved programs, others are "first come, first served".

I hope you find something at Temple. Sorry that Jefferson didn't pan out - even as a Jefferson student, I got locked out of a lot of electives. There are just a LOT of students, and limited spaces. :(

Have you also looked into the community hospitals in Philadelphia? Einstein is a very good place to learn, as is Methodist, Pennsylvania Hospital, and Lankenau. They're all easily accessible by public transportation, if you don't have a car. Cooper, in Camden, is another very good hospital (easily identifiable by the huge poster of Kelly Ripa's face) that is a 15 minute subway ride from Center City Philadelphia. If Temple doesn't work out, those places may be good alternatives.

This is good advice. Philly is a big city with a lot of students and a lot of appeal for visiting clerks. You may want to consider the smaller hospitals around the area. And as above, consider other cities which have great hospitals but aren't as well known as the programs in Philly would be.

Why does Camden have a huge picture of Kelly Ripa's face?:confused:
 
Why does Camden have a huge picture of Kelly Ripa's face?:confused:

Apparently Kelly Ripa's uncle is on the board of directors for Cooper, and she was asked to be their spokesperson. She also does their commercials, shows up at their fund-raisers, etc, and they just opened "The Ripa Center for Women's Health & Wellness at Cooper." She's everywhere at that hospital.
 
I want to chime in that I have nothing against FMGs and am only giving my personal experience of what I have encountered filling out clerkship applications. Some clerkship applications specifically say NO Foreign medical school graduates/students allowed. Other places wholeheartedly welcome students from all areas of the country and outside of the US. I said it would be harder not impossible. I also question how easy it is to go through alternate channels now that the VSAS is in place, but good luck regardless.
 
Thanks bitsy, I understand what you mean.

Its part of the reason why I posted on here actually because it would be easy for me to snowball and apply to so many places Feinberg, Harvard, Yale etc and find that I am singlehandedly responsible for the next economic downturn :S

Thats why I want to apply smart and go about it the right way - the advice here has certainly helped!
 
I am a European studying in Malta, Europe. I am in the top 1/2 of my class (nothing more) and I have US citizenship.
Does having US citizenship increase ones chances of getting an elective in the US? I have personally never lived in the US and therefore I've never studied there.

Thank you
 
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