Away Rotations for General Surgery

[gsmedic]

Hey guys,
Simple question

I currently attend school in area where I am not looking to stay for my general surgery residency. It is an average medical school and does not have a lot of students who attend residencies in the Midwest or East Coast.

In your opinions do I have to do an away rotation somewhere in the Midwest or East Coast to have a chance at getting interviews and being competitive for a general surgery residency spot in those respective regions?

Thanks in advance

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[Winged Scapula]

Away rotations are typically not required for allopathic GS. There is not the regional bias for residency as there is for medical school.

However, given the red flags in your application it might be worth considering IF you come off better in person than on paper.

An away rotation can be risky as it can be difficult to keep your quirks undercover for entire month.

 

[gsmedic]

Just out of curiosity, the red flags being what? Also I definitely feel like I perform a lot better in person than on paper, as most of the remarks in my grades from past residents and attendings are very positive.

 

[WaylonS]

Just out of curiosity, the red flags being what? Also I definitely feel like I perform a lot better in person than on paper, as most of the remarks in my grades from past residents and attendings are very positive.

Your Step1 score
Your B in surgery
The fact that you decided to take a year off, but did not do so in order to do research, earn a second degree, or as part of a structured fellowship

 

[gsmedic]

Well I agree with the first two but the third one I disagree, I know plenty of advisors who told me it was a good move and despite it not coming with a degree or a structured fellowship

 

[WaylonS]

Well I agree with the first two but the third one I disagree, I know plenty of advisors who told me it was a good move and despite it not coming with a degree or a structured fellowship

While you did a lot of volunteering, I can imagine some people might think that you just wanted to take a year off from med school to putz around.

 

[Winged Scapula]

As WaylonS notes: your Step 1 score, your grade in Surgery (as well as other Bs which suggest it's not an anomaly), your "average" school and the year off.

Despite what your advisors said, while it makes your application more interesting, it does not bolster your application the way published research would.

The main problem I see is that you've listed some heavyweight programs for consideration. For example, if you look at the medical schools that current UCLA general surgery residents attended, you'll see an over misrepresentation from UCLA and Ivy League schools. I'd venture that if your "average" medical school is represented there, those students had pretty impressive CVs.

 

[gsmedic]

Well i just simply listed programs, as I am unsure of which programs are "Top Tier" and which ones would be in my range. . . . They were mere examples not serious considerations . . . of course my year off doesn't bolster my CV like published research would but that is because it is totally different . .. i wanted to not only "enrich" my CV but also gain a new perspective on medicine in a third-world country which i definitely did despite not coming away with a degree, published research or fellowship. .. as for my grades. . .i didnt really learn how to study for my SHELF exams until the last few rotations. . . i wish i would have gotten A's but I couldn't go back in time, only learn from my mistakes, which i believe i did. . . . lastly, WaylonS if people believed I wanted a year off to putz around then they are idiots. . . Thanks for your help

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You seem to be getting defensive with WaylonS's post - he is telling you exactly what most PDs will think.

If you took a year off to enrich yourself, rather than your CV, then that is great. But you did it for you. It's not going to make programs swoon and you shouldn't expect it to. I also suspect you underestimate the number of people who have had "once in a lifetime" experiences like this out there on the interview trail.

I also think it is intellectually dishonest to throw out a list of some of the best programs in the country, then say you were just randomly listing programs with no idea as to their competitiveness.

What you should do (and this is in summary response to all of your overlapping threads):
1. Decide what type of program you want, academic or community. This decision shouldn't be made on perceived "ease" of obtaining a spot, as there are plenty of less competitive academic programs, and plenty of competitive community programs.
2. Discuss with your SO what regions you are willing to compromise on to broaden your search. Aside from Ohio, all the places you listed are some of the hardest to match in in the country. Since you are a statistically below average candidate AND you are couples matching, you are going to need to apply to a LOT of programs and go on as many interviews as possible
3. Find an advisor at your school (PD, clerkship director, etc) who is willing to take time and help you. They should be able to look at your whole application and help you target programs of appropriate competitiveness across these regions.

 

[Synchronous]

Here's a blog that might help:
How To Achieve Your Dream Residency: The Future Surgeon’s Guide to 4th Year

I wish I had read that before planning 4th year, it would have lessened the anxiety of setting up rotations considerably. I ended up doing away rotations in interesting places that offered an experience I wasn't able to get at my home institution and I feel like my 4th year was richer for it. I also matched at a place I never rotated at, so there's the n=1 anecdotal evidence for away rotations not really helping...

edit: totally missed the necro bump, I blame night float

 

[failedatlife]

your Step 1 score

His Step 1 is a "red flag"? I assume he has like a 210. That's a "red flag" for general surgery???!???!?!?!? Obviously it's not ideal, and it's low, but is it really a "red flag"?

Aren't "red flags" like getting caught cheating, or put on probation by the school, or having a criminal record. Is a 210 really akin to basically have a misdemeanor on your record? Is one 6 hour test really akin to smear of your permanent record? Is it really a marker of incompetence to the point that it gets designated a "red flag"?

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

His Step 1 is a "red flag"? I assume he has like a 210. That's a "red flag" for general surgery???!???!?!?!? Obviously it's not ideal, and it's low, but is it really a "red flag"?

Aren't "red flags" like getting caught cheating, or put on probation by the school, or having a criminal record. Is a 210 really akin to basically have a misdemeanor on your record? Is one 6 hour test really akin to smear of your permanent record? Is it really a marker of incompetence to the point that it gets designated a "red flag"?

Red flags are aspects that NEGATIVELY impact your chances of matching (as in, aspects that are not "neutral" or positive).

Avg Step 1 score of US seniors who matched GS is a 232. So yes, a 210 would be a negative, therefore a "red flag."

 

[Winged Scapula]

His Step 1 is a "red flag"? I assume he has like a 210. That's a "red flag" for general surgery???!???!?!?!? Obviously it's not ideal, and it's low, but is it really a "red flag"?

Aren't "red flags" like getting caught cheating, or put on probation by the school, or having a criminal record. Is a 210 really akin to basically have a misdemeanor on your record? Is one 6 hour test really akin to smear of your permanent record? Is it really a marker of incompetence to the point that it gets designated a "red flag"?

Getting caught cheating or having a criminal record are not "red flags"; they are almost assuredly application killers.

As noted above, his Step 1 score is quite a bit lower than the average which raises concern or a "red flag". It doesn't necessarily equate to "incompetence" just something to watch out for. There is a big difference; don't be so dramatic.

 

[Anicetus]

His Step 1 is a "red flag"? I assume he has like a 210. That's a "red flag" for general surgery???!???!?!?!? Obviously it's not ideal, and it's low, but is it really a "red flag"?

Aren't "red flags" like getting caught cheating, or put on probation by the school, or having a criminal record. Is a 210 really akin to basically have a misdemeanor on your record? Is one 6 hour test really akin to smear of your permanent record? Is it really a marker of incompetence to the point that it gets designated a "red flag"?

Look at the bright side. At least he's not dead.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Also if I remember this years old discussion right, we were discussing applying to some of the top programs in the country, in which case a low step 1 probably is an application killer.

Very true.