General Surgery Competitiveness

[gsmedic]

Hey guys,

I have some questions about doing away rotations, and my competitiveness for matching into general surgery. Sorry for the length.

About me
-Attend average medical school
-Step 1 210s, Step 2 250s
-Clinical Rotations started out with B's, and ended with A's. . . Surgery rotation received a B. . . Medicine rotation received an A
-Have very strong LOR's from attendings at my institution
-Have had two abstracts accepted and were presented at two conferences, not by me but by colleagues as I was outside of the country during conferences. . .hopefully will publish either one of those two before graduating.
-Took a year off between my 3rd and 4th year to do volunteer work and gain international clinical work in various settings in a 3rd world country.
-Between 1st and 2nd year volunteered 4 weeks at Women's health clinic in a 3rd world country
-I am planning on couples matching with my girlfriend who is wanting to do Emed, she is a very competitive applicant

-In the end, we would like to end up on the West Coast (California more specifically), the Midwest (Ohio or Chicago) or the East Coast (NYC, Boston or DC). . . Keeping in mind our respective medical schools are not located in those places

1. How competitive am I for General Surgery and what programs should I look at? I am lost as to which programs I might be competitive for. . . For example would I be competitive at UCLA, USC, Stanford, Northwestern, Ohio State, University of Cincinnati, UMich, and NYU. Or should I focus my efforts at community programs, if so which ones are good?
2. How many away rotations should I perform? I am definitely doing one in California but would consider a second one if its a good idea.
3. Where should I do my away rotations? Should I look to do them at prestigious places or places where I only have a chance?
4. If I were to do another away where should I do it?
5. Since I am applying to places outside of the area of my medical school, do I need to rotate at schools in those regions to have serious considerations at institutions in those areas? For example, do I need to rotate in NYC to have a chance at East Coast programs?

Thanks in advance for your help - hopefully this will help answer others questions - and again sorry for the length.

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[WaylonS]

Hey guys,

I have some questions about doing away rotations, and my competitiveness for matching into general surgery. Sorry for the length.

About me
-Attend average medical school
-Step 1 210s, Step 2 250s
-Clinical Rotations started out with B's, and ended with A's. . . Surgery rotation received a B. . . Medicine rotation received an A
-Have very strong LOR's from attendings at my institution
-Have had two abstracts accepted and were presented at two conferences, not by me but by colleagues as I was outside of the country during conferences. . .hopefully will publish either one of those two before graduating.
-Took a year off between my 3rd and 4th year to do volunteer work and gain international clinical work in various settings in a 3rd world country.
-Between 1st and 2nd year volunteered 4 weeks at Women's health clinic in a 3rd world country
-I am planning on couples matching with my girlfriend who is wanting to do Emed, she is a very competitive applicant

-In the end, we would like to end up on the West Coast (California more specifically), the Midwest (Ohio or Chicago) or the East Coast (NYC, Boston or DC). . . Keeping in mind our respective medical schools are not located in those places

1. How competitive am I for General Surgery and what programs should I look at? I am lost as to which programs I might be competitive for. . . For example would I be competitive at UCLA, USC, Stanford, Northwestern, Ohio State, University of Cincinnati, UMich, and NYU. Or should I focus my efforts at community programs, if so which ones are good?
2. How many away rotations should I perform? I am definitely doing one in California but would consider a second one if its a good idea.
3. Where should I do my away rotations? Should I look to do them at prestigious places or places where I only have a chance?
4. If I were to do another away where should I do it?
5. Since I am applying to places outside of the area of my medical school, do I need to rotate at schools in those regions to have serious considerations at institutions in those areas? For example, do I need to rotate in NYC to have a chance at East Coast programs?

Thanks in advance for your help - hopefully this will help answer others questions - and again sorry for the length.

GS may not be PS or ENT, but I can't imagine you'll be competitive for top GS programs with a Step 1 in the 210's and a B in your GS clerkship.

Do you have a good story/output from your year off? Did you do your year as part of a prestigious fellowship, like Doris Duke?

 

[gsmedic]

Sorry but I don't exactly know which programs are the "Top GS" programs. . .I just threw out names when I wrote the post. . . I'm lost on what programs I would be competitive for, that's why I wrote the post. . . Yea Step 1 was a bad day for and my surgery rotation was my first rotation and the Shelf was a lot of medicine which unfortunately I had seen none of. . . I'll have a good story when it comes to my year off. . .probably won't have any publications or certificates etc. . . but will have "once-in-a-lifetime experiences" and something to talk about. . .not it wasnt a prestigious fellowship, just a desire to live in a another country and perform clinical work for a year. . . .

 

[Asperphys]

I agree with WaylonS.

You might have to apply really broadly. I know of only one person who got 210+ on step 1 who did well. Did not get interviews anywhere until step 2 was released where they got 260+. The rest of the cv was impressive: masters degree, honors in GS and subinternships, lots of publications. Step 1 really held them back but thankfully, they matched into a very competitive academic program.

Another one who had 210+ but not so great cv ended up in a much smaller, lower tier, academic program.

Your once-in-a-lifetime experience might make for a fantastic interview, but you have to secure them first.

 

[joker2400]

Hey guys,

I have some questions about doing away rotations, and my competitiveness for matching into general surgery. Sorry for the length.

About me
-Attend average medical school
-Step 1 210s, Step 2 250s
-Clinical Rotations started out with B's, and ended with A's. . . Surgery rotation received a B. . . Medicine rotation received an A
-Have very strong LOR's from attendings at my institution
-Have had two abstracts accepted and were presented at two conferences, not by me but by colleagues as I was outside of the country during conferences. . .hopefully will publish either one of those two before graduating.
-Took a year off between my 3rd and 4th year to do volunteer work and gain international clinical work in various settings in a 3rd world country.
-Between 1st and 2nd year volunteered 4 weeks at Women's health clinic in a 3rd world country
-I am planning on couples matching with my girlfriend who is wanting to do Emed, she is a very competitive applicant

-In the end, we would like to end up on the West Coast (California more specifically), the Midwest (Ohio or Chicago) or the East Coast (NYC, Boston or DC). . . Keeping in mind our respective medical schools are not located in those places

1. How competitive am I for General Surgery and what programs should I look at? I am lost as to which programs I might be competitive for. . . For example would I be competitive at UCLA, USC, Stanford, Northwestern, Ohio State, University of Cincinnati, UMich, and NYU. Or should I focus my efforts at community programs, if so which ones are good?
2. How many away rotations should I perform? I am definitely doing one in California but would consider a second one if its a good idea.
3. Where should I do my away rotations? Should I look to do them at prestigious places or places where I only have a chance?
4. If I were to do another away where should I do it?
5. Since I am applying to places outside of the area of my medical school, do I need to rotate at schools in those regions to have serious considerations at institutions in those areas? For example, do I need to rotate in NYC to have a chance at East Coast programs?

Thanks in advance for your help - hopefully this will help answer others questions - and again sorry for the length.

You should look into Detroit, seriously.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Apply broadly and you'll likely get in somewhere. Doubt you will get into top-of-the-line programs, but low-mid academic programs and community programs are likely within reach.

 

[Typhlitis]

This should answer all of your questions about competitiveness. Do read.

A document that is very useful for assessing your competitiveness in the match for any specialty is the Charting Outcomes in the Match 2011. Any specialty, you name it, you can look at where your own stats fall. It can help you decide how many programs to interview at, etc. I just finished my season and with steps 1 and 2 in 250s and 260s, I got 34 invites for 50 applications. I took 16 interviews. I matched in general surgery and did not rank anything other than categorical (hopefully it isn't at #16 eh?)

Be sure to pay attention to the distribution of matched/unmatched for EACH column of data, to see whether that particular item is even relevant (if it looks like an 80-20 ratio of matched to unmatched for 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 publications then maybe # of publications is completely irrelevant for that specialty).

Link to all the NRMP statistical publications: http://www.nrmp.org/match-data/main-residency-match-data/

Direct Link: http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...tent/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

 

[caffeinemia]

Hey guys,

I have some questions about doing away rotations, and my competitiveness for matching into general surgery. Sorry for the length.

About me
-Attend average medical school
-Step 1 210s, Step 2 250s
-Clinical Rotations started out with B's, and ended with A's. . . Surgery rotation received a B. . . Medicine rotation received an A
-Have very strong LOR's from attendings at my institution
-Have had two abstracts accepted and were presented at two conferences, not by me but by colleagues as I was outside of the country during conferences. . .hopefully will publish either one of those two before graduating.
-Took a year off between my 3rd and 4th year to do volunteer work and gain international clinical work in various settings in a 3rd world country.
-Between 1st and 2nd year volunteered 4 weeks at Women's health clinic in a 3rd world country
-I am planning on couples matching with my girlfriend who is wanting to do Emed, she is a very competitive applicant

-In the end, we would like to end up on the West Coast (California more specifically), the Midwest (Ohio or Chicago) or the East Coast (NYC, Boston or DC). . . Keeping in mind our respective medical schools are not located in those places

1. How competitive am I for General Surgery and what programs should I look at? I am lost as to which programs I might be competitive for. . . For example would I be competitive at UCLA, USC, Stanford, Northwestern, Ohio State, University of Cincinnati, UMich, and NYU. Or should I focus my efforts at community programs, if so which ones are good?
2. How many away rotations should I perform? I am definitely doing one in California but would consider a second one if its a good idea.
3. Where should I do my away rotations? Should I look to do them at prestigious places or places where I only have a chance?
4. If I were to do another away where should I do it?
5. Since I am applying to places outside of the area of my medical school, do I need to rotate at schools in those regions to have serious considerations at institutions in those areas? For example, do I need to rotate in NYC to have a chance at East Coast programs?

Thanks in advance for your help - hopefully this will help answer others questions - and again sorry for the length.

I applied into GS as a backup for an even more competitive specialty (yes, I matched -- I don't which specialty yet).
Perhaps my experience will be helpful: I applied to 30 programs from community to awesome academic programs, and got interviews at about half with a Step I of 250. My clinical grades were crap.

Surgeons are very practical people and their system often speaks to it. I spoke to the chairman at my home institution's very competitive GS program. They do it by making a big spreadsheet of all candidates and assigning point values to things like:
1) Step I
2) AOA
3) Honors in medicine and surgery
4) Attended Top 20 school.
Then there's a cut-off.

I hated this system and didn't apply there, but that's the game and I can't imagine other systems are far off. Best you be aware even if you dont buy into it. I echo the above and apply to a lot of programs and making a range of it. If you are interested in talking about GS programs, just message me. I applied to Cali, Northern Midwest, East Coast.