Awful stats for DO school

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Jesus Christ! Webster's should copy this quote an put a picture of it beside the word dedication and resilience because I can't think of anything that requires those two more.

Awesome and inspiring!



cabinbuilder said:
I think I had at least 20 retakes on my transcripts. I get called Dr. CB all day every day.

Hmm, if I recall.......

Physics I 4 times
Physics II 4 times
Bichem 4 times
Organic I 4 times
Organic II 2 times
Calculus I 2 times
Trig 2 times
Bio I 2 times
Chem I 4 times
Chem II 4 times
Micro 2 times
Genetics 2 times


Before I get flamed I will say that I always seemed to have some type of crises during college, my husband was very abusive, my mom suicidal (she finally came through with her threats before I graduated), had 2 kids in the process, 7 surgeries in 5 years, worked 2 jobs, was homeless for about 8 months, etc. Life sometimes really sucks and **** happens. It's what you learn from the crap and how you move forward that counts.
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As what Elevencents said you should have a strong MCAT performance else you should retake the chem 2 test which will increases your chances of getting into a DO school.
 
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How horrible does it look to get a B on a retake?
 
irondoc said:
How horrible does it look to get a B on a retake?
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I think it is relative. If you originally got an F/D or C in a traditionally tough class such as orgo, physics, or chem 2, then it probably doesn't look terrible. It may look bad if your original was maybe a C+ and your re-take was a B and was the only class you were taking at the time. If you had a full load of courses and your retake was a B, it may not look bad.

So, I guess it depends on the situation. It isn't great but isn't necesarily the end of the world.
 
irondoc said:
How horrible does it look to get a B on a retake?
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If you're consistently getting B's on retakes (as you seem to be doing), not good. Your retake grade of a C in Bio 2 is even worse.

OP, I believe you can do this. I was in your shoes once. But my very sincere advice to you is to just cool it with the retakes and instead take some time to figure out what the hell is going on with your study habits. If that means taking time off science classes and focusing on finishing your psych degree, so be it. You're setting yourself up to be retaking retakes in the near future, which is a huge waste of time and money. Seriously, figure out what is going on that is hindering you from getting A's. DO NOT sign up for a full load next semester with the idea that you're going to take biochem + 5 other science classes, ace them, and come out of this. As of now, your trend is not positive and suggests that you cannot ace science classes, even after learning the material twice - this won't get better until you get to the root of the problem and fix it.

Please don't take this as me being mean to you. I've been there, and I learned the VERY painful lesson of how important your core classes are. In my opinion, you are far from ready to even be thinking about applying to any professional science program, let alone a medical school. But that doesn't mean it isn't in the cards for you! As another poster said above, this is a marathon, not a race.
 
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irondoc said:
How horrible does it look to get a B on a retake?
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Honestly, I'd consider it a black mark, although not a death sentence. Don't make the mistake of thinking admissions are the same as 15 years ago with cabinbuilder. In today's world, her candidacy could be impossible. The same is true for the applications of 99% of MD 15 years ago compared to their school's standards today.
 
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AlbinoHawk DO said:
Honestly, I'd consider it a black mark, although not a death sentence. Don't make the mistake of thinking admissions are the same as 15 years ago with cabinbuilder. In today's world, her candidacy could be impossible. The same is true for the applications of 99% of MD 15 years ago compared to their school's standards today.
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Maybe not a black mark... But it's not fantastic or anything. I mean admittedly and I'll say this frankly, most college classes outside of engineering aren't difficult to get a B in. So generally you're not going to be impressing anyone with a B in intro classes. But it's not a C or D so that's good.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
Honestly, I'd consider it a black mark, although not a death sentence. Don't make the mistake of thinking admissions are the same as 15 years ago with cabinbuilder. In today's world, her candidacy could be impossible. The same is true for the applications of 99% of MD 15 years ago compared to their school's standards today.
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Yeah, some of the threads from early 2000's blow me away with people saying that they will be fine applying to MD schools with 3.2's.

Everyone wants to go to medical school nowadays with the economy in the dumps, and even with the aggressive expansion of new schools, I only see it getting harder to get into.
 
You can have multiple retakes for med school. As long as you have a period of recent consistency, i.e >1 year and a good GPA then you'll be fine as long as you have a good MCAT.
 
GypsyHummus said:
Yeah, some of the threads from early 2000's blow me away with people saying that they will be fine applying to MD schools with 3.2's.

Everyone wants to go to medical school nowadays with the economy in the dumps, and even with the aggressive expansion of new schools, I only see it getting harder to get into.
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Today's average applicant for osteopathic school is the same as MD about 15 years ago. I know an anesthesiologist that originally got into MD/PhD with a 3.5/30 to Dartmouth.
 
NO need to quash dreams. I know that my getting into medical school was a long shot even 15 years ago. My point is getting into medical school is like a refined lottery, everyone has a shot, it's just how compelling you are on paper for someone to give you a chance.
 
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irondoc said:
I'm currently a 4th year psych major. Over the last few years, I've had a fairly difficult time in terms of getting good grades, so I'm really counting on my retakes. The problem now is that I'm extremely confused when to apply and how my next few years should be paved. I've retaken a few classes and I currently have the following stats...

cGPA: 2.55. sGPA is 2.61... I'm also a psych major and not sure if my psych courses will be considered as science courses. My school offers a BS instead of BA for psych

These are the classes i've taken that would count for my science courses
Bio 1: B, Bio 2: C then C again with Retake!...
Chem 1: B, Chem 2: D
Orgo 1: D then B with retake, orgo 2 with lab: not taken
Physics 1: B, Physics 2: not taken
calc 2: C, calc 3: F then A with retake
**Had to take calc 3 because my previous major was physics during my first year

I will be taking orgo 2 in the upcoming semester and still need to retake chem 2.

I've already screwed up on one of my retakes. The main question I wanna ask is:

Do i still have a chance of getting into DO school if i just retake my chem 2, and finish my orgo 2, phys 2 requirements, and take the MCAT?

Would it be a better idea to do a masters and then apply with more competitive stats?

Looking for serious help and advice please
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Always interesting to see the level of neuroses on this forum....almost as bad as listening to 2nd year med students talk about board scores and residency matches...

Do you have a chance to get into DO school? good question--- really depends on you and what you're willing to go through to get there.....

Using my own example: My undergrad degree was from DeVry, worked in a different field for about 20 years, attempted 3 different master's degrees but quit every one with about 3 to 4 failures on my record; did all of my premed prereqs at 4 different community colleges, one at a time -- did maintain a A average with that one.....my clinical experience was working 6 months at a chirpractors office, married with two small children....working nights at WalMart (laid off from engineering -- Walmart was a Godsend since I had been working 3 part time jobs while doing prereqs to keep the family afloat) while studying for the MCAT -- took it once with a 25T result....interviewed at my top choice of school (TCOM) and was waitlisted and offered their postbacc -- signed up for the postbacc and then was called off the wait list.....

Since I didn't want to move the family, I drove 1.5 hours 1 way for a year during OMSI year...failed the last class of the year by 3 questions and had to repeat or go home.....

My attitude was like the Israeli's in 73 --either take the Golan Heights or don't come home because there'll be nothing left to come home to....so I moved across the street from the school in a bachelor pad and gutted out a year of academic probation and graduated.....

Made it through the toxic residency from hell where I was: slapped in the head, told I was too stupid to read the English language and generally used and abused for 3.5 long years....

but I'm a practicing, BE attending right now

Do you have a chance? My question to you is: How freakin' bad do you want it? Are you some lame ass that's going to whine if you don't get in or are you going to never quit until you're in med school no matter how many times you have to apply? Are you going to call the state osteopathic medical association and find some way to meet people who can pitch your case to the adcom? Are you going to call the schools and ask them how you can make your package stronger? Are you going to go visit the schools and introduce yourself? Heard of one doc that actually shipped the admission office a single (new) shoe with the question,"how do I get my foot in the door?"....unusual enough that they got an interview.....

I had nothing to go back to -- my engineering career died June 27, 2002 at 12:26 in the afternoon -- I wasn't going to India, China, New Zeland for a job and there were few and far between to be had here in the US...I had 2 small kids and a wife that were depending on me to make it happen -- we almost lost our house and would have had to live in an apartment on the bad side of town if I failed.....Did I do it on my own? No -- The Lord God opened doors like you wouldn't believe....to the point that it baffled the associate Dean of Medical education who told me to my face that I didn't belong in med school and if they had known, I would not have been admitted -- my background academically just wasn't suited for med school -- I remember thinking,"You didn't get me in here buddy and I'm not leaving until I either graduate, get carried out feet first or God tells me I'm done with this"......

I like a quote from Bob Marley," You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have".....

If you let yourself be defined by your grades, well then that's your choice. If you show some drive to make it happen and create your own opportunities, then welcome to the profession...it's up to YOU.
 
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JustPlainBill said:
Always interesting to see the level of neuroses on this forum....almost as bad as listening to 2nd year med students talk about board scores and residency matches...

Do you have a chance to get into DO school? good question--- really depends on you and what you're willing to go through to get there.....

Using my own example: My undergrad degree was from DeVry, worked in a different field for about 20 years, attempted 3 different master's degrees but quit every one with about 3 to 4 failures on my record; did all of my premed prereqs at 4 different community colleges, one at a time -- did maintain a A average with that one.....my clinical experience was working 6 months at a chirpractors office, married with two small children....working nights at WalMart (laid off from engineering -- Walmart was a Godsend since I had been working 3 part time jobs while doing prereqs to keep the family afloat) while studying for the MCAT -- took it once with a 25T result....interviewed at my top choice of school (TCOM) and was waitlisted and offered their postbacc -- signed up for the postbacc and then was called off the wait list.....

Since I didn't want to move the family, I drove 1.5 hours 1 way for a year during OMSI year...failed the last class of the year by 3 questions and had to repeat or go home.....

My attitude was like the Israeli's in 73 --either take the Golan Heights or don't come home because there'll be nothing left to come home to....so I moved across the street from the school in a bachelor pad and gutted out a year of academic probation and graduated.....

Made it through the toxic residency from hell where I was: slapped in the head, told I was too stupid to read the English language and generally used and abused for 3.5 long years....

but I'm a practicing, BE attending right now

Do you have a chance? My question to you is: How freakin' bad do you want it? Are you some lame ass that's going to whine if you don't get in or are you going to never quit until you're in med school no matter how many times you have to apply? Are you going to call the state osteopathic medical association and find some way to meet people who can pitch your case to the adcom? Are you going to call the schools and ask them how you can make your package stronger? Are you going to go visit the schools and introduce yourself? Heard of one doc that actually shipped the admission office a single (new) shoe with the question,"how do I get my foot in the door?"....unusual enough that they got an interview.....

I had nothing to go back to -- my engineering career died June 27, 2002 at 12:26 in the afternoon -- I wasn't going to India, China, New Zeland for a job and there were few and far between to be had here in the US...I had 2 small kids and a wife that were depending on me to make it happen -- we almost lost our house and would have had to live in an apartment on the bad side of town if I failed.....Did I do it on my own? No -- The Lord God opened doors like you wouldn't believe....to the point that it baffled the associate Dean of Medical education who told me to my face that I didn't belong in med school and if they had known, I would not have been admitted -- my background academically just wasn't suited for med school -- I remember thinking,"You didn't get me in here buddy and I'm not leaving until I either graduate, get carried out feet first or God tells me I'm done with this"......

I like a quote from Bob Marley," You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have".....

If you let yourself be defined by your grades, well then that's your choice. If you show some drive to make it happen and create your own opportunities, then welcome to the profession...it's up to YOU.
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You and I are kindred souls, Bill. Totally freaking love you. I think your journey was harder than mine. Keep focused. Will talk soon.
 
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It'd take ALOT to overcome your situation. If you think you can do it, by all means go for it. If I were you, I'd strongly start considering alternative career.
 
cabinbuilder said:
I can't believe this thread died.
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I think that its because you said everything that needed to be said. Depends on how hard someone is willing to work and how much someone is willing to sacrifice.

I will say this, thank God for grade replacement. It and it alone gives me hope that someone can still turn the beat around and make their dream of DO still happen.
 
GypsyHummus said:
I think that its because you said everything that needed to be said. Depends on how hard someone is willing to work and how much someone is willing to sacrifice.

I will say this, thank God for grade replacement. It and it alone gives me hope that someone can still turn the beat around and make their dream of DO still happen.
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Part of why I really like DO. MD doesn't allow for any mistakes. You have to know what you're doing and do well pretty much right into college. You have to somehow be mature enough to commit at 18 to medical school preparation. And god forbid you get confused and forget to check a box somewhere because you didn't obsessively research the application process.

DO grade replacement basically says, "It's okay. We understand you're human and stuff happens. Here's a second chance. Prove yourself. You can do it."
 
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Reading the negativity on this thread towards CabinBuilder reminded me why I hate most premeds.
 
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polylux said:
Part of why I really like DO. MD doesn't allow for any mistakes. You have to know what you're doing and do well pretty much right into college. You have to somehow be mature enough to commit at 18 to medical school preparation. And god forbid you get confused and forget to check a box somewhere because you didn't obsessively research the application process.

DO grade replacement basically says, "It's okay. We understand you're human and stuff happens. Here's a second chance. Prove yourself. You can do it."
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Which I think this mentality jives well with medicine as a whole. Patients are gonna mess up their prescriptions, weight, blood pressure, sugar, etc. We as future physicians get to say its ok, time to step up to the plate and deliver.
 
This is somewhat depressing. I really want to make it to med school but it seems too many semesters have ended with disappointments. I've wanted it since i was 12 but that period with depression and no focus really ruined it for me. This semester I performed better than before but seems like from some of the responses, it didn't make anything better

JustPlainBill's story gives me hope but given my current record and this age I really need to reconsider a few things.

I'm going to graduate asap and see what I can do from there.
 
Thanks to cabinbuilder and JustPlainBill.. Massive respect for both of you :)
 
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Just wanted to leave an update on this thread. Finally got accepted to a DO school. Took me 4 years, but it finally happened. I would have given up a long time ago if it wasn't for some of the feedback here. Thank you again especially to @cabinbuilder @JustPlainBill @hallowmann
 
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Osminog said:
What'd you do to make a come-back?
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The most important part was thoroughly re-evaluating myself. Had to look at myself honestly and accept my faults. I knew what I needed to do to do well, it was just a matter of self-discipline and a whole lot of faith.

I retook all the classes I got a C or below in after graduating. I went for a Masters degree and did pretty well in the program. Pretty grateful I went for the Masters since grade replacement is gone now.
 
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irondoc said:
The most important part was thoroughly re-evaluating myself. Had to look at myself honestly and accept my faults. I knew what I needed to do to do well, it was just a matter of self-discipline and a whole lot of faith.

I retook all the classes I got a C or below in after graduating. I went for a Masters degree and did pretty well in the program. Pretty grateful I went for the Masters since grade replacement is gone now.
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Nice. Congratulations! How'd you do on the MCAT?
 
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irondoc said:
Just wanted to leave an update on this thread. Finally got accepted to a DO school. Took me 4 years, but it finally happened. I would have given up a long time ago if it wasn't for some of the feedback here. Thank you again especially to @cabinbuilder @JustPlainBill @hallowmann
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Congratulations!!! I'm glad the grade replacement change didn't stop you. This thread feels like so long ago, but 4 years of med school flew by.

If I were you, I would celebrate, relax, spend plenty of time with friends and family, and prepare to work the second you start. Its a whirlwind. Be sure to hold on to yourself and not let the difficulty of the process and the system change you for the worse. Good luck!
 
Congratulations! I'm about to graduate with a cGPA 3.1 (haven't taken any required courses) and I foun this thread very uplifting. You give me hope!
 
Wow, congrats on your success. Just wrote a super long post and now I realize this is old. Amazing!

EDIT: You know what, I'm still going to leave my advice post. I wonder how much of my 'first option' you did? :yawn::yawn::yawn:

Here goes:

irondoc said:
I'm currently a 4th year psych major. Over the last few years, I've had a fairly difficult time in terms of getting good grades, so I'm really counting on my retakes. cGPA: 2.55. sGPA is 2.61... I'm also a psych major. Looking for serious help and advice please
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My advice is something I would hope someone would tell me if I were in your position. There's no question you can put in a lot of work and get accepted to a DO school with multiple re-takes and upper level science courses (years of work). However, with there being no grade replacement anymore (irrelevant now that I realize this is an old post) and being a 4th year with all of those credits dragging your GPA down, you've got such a long road ahead. Further, you've got the MCAT, so there's that, too.

So, as I see it, you've got two options:

1. As. Lots of As. Like 4.0 As. A- at worst. B+ once because your dog died. For two years of full time upper level science and retakes. Hope to move your cGPA closer to a 3.0. Ideally, you don't have too many science credits stacked against you so that sGPA will shoot up. Then, take an MCAT course and ace the exam. Hopefully you'll have a well-rounded app outside of that. Apply early and broad to as many DO programs as you can afford. Concurrently apply to SMP/traditional masters programs with strong research, linkage, and medical curriculum. If you don't get accepted, consider attending the masters/SMP depending on your performance over those two upper level science years; very risky for someone with a history of a low GPA (high risk, high reward). Reapply w/ better app each time until you get in.

2. Realize that your record of consistent poor performance makes you very likely to continue that poor performance -- especially in medical school. Option 1 will take years, and it honestly might not be worth it for you.


Best of luck buddy. :xf:
 
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Congrats on your success!

Good call on the masters. I still can’t believe they pulled the rug out from under everyone with grade replacement.

Celebrate now and get ready to work. The testing never ends.
 
irondoc said:
Just wanted to leave an update on this thread. Finally got accepted to a DO school. Took me 4 years, but it finally happened. I would have given up a long time ago if it wasn't for some of the feedback here. Thank you again especially to @cabinbuilder @JustPlainBill @hallowmann
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Strong work! I'm happy for you. Now the adventure (another name for work) begins --- do yourself a favor and go do the things you really like as I can tell you that you won't be doing a lot of them for a while -- eat good food, enjoy time with close friends, drink the beer, eat the cheesecake, do the smootchy smootch with the sweetie (if you don't have one, go ogle the sex of your choice)...do not attempt to pre-study, pre-read or "get ready" by doing anything academic. The freight train will come soon enough...

I would say that about a week out, I would go get First Aid for USMLE Step 1, take it down to Kinko's and have them remove the softcover and 3 hole punch the pages. Put it in a 3 ring binder. Once you get an idea what your class schedule looks like (we were systems based and had Cell Biology (which included biochem) first), take that section of First Aid and memorize it (to the point where you can reproduce it on blank pieces of paper). do that before you start the class block (you may have to dig through the various chapters to find some sections that are pertinent). That will get you a passing grade -- then take notes on the power points and read around anything you don't understand well. Take copious well written notes so that you will be able to understand them in 2 years. Keep this up during your first 2 years of medical school and by the time you get ready to study for your first set of boards, you've got a ready made, personalized study resource......lots and lots of reading are headed your way....

but for now -- go eat that big bowl of homemade pasta sitting beside your favorite frosty adult beverage that's got your name on it......

again, congrats on a job well done.....
 
irondoc said:
The most important part was thoroughly re-evaluating myself. Had to look at myself honestly and accept my faults. I knew what I needed to do to do well, it was just a matter of self-discipline and a whole lot of faith.

I retook all the classes I got a C or below in after graduating. I went for a Masters degree and did pretty well in the program. Pretty grateful I went for the Masters since grade replacement is gone now.
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Congratulations on your acceptance !! I am happy to see someone work hard towards their goal and actually achieve it! I have similar undergrad stats as you and I was wondering what kind of masters did you do? I am so happy the masters route worked out for you.
 
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