AZCOM or TUCOM-CA (or other) and residency prospects

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LieutenantDan

LieutenantDan

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I am trying to decide on a school and my primary concern is being competitive for high level ACGME residency when I graduate, like Mayo, Cleveland clinic, Univ. of WA etc. Research is not a major priority other than as a means of getting a better residency.

I expect to do well on the boards and to work my butt off for good grades, so I am wondering how important is: school reputation, knowing the professors well, quality of rotations and so on.

I am accepted to AZCOM and COMP-NW, and I have an interview soon at TUCOM-CA, I am hoping to ultimately practice on the West Coast after residency. I am leaning toward AZCOM at the moment but I have a lot of family near TUCOM-CA, and like the area better, is there enough of a difference between these schools to favor one over the other, or is it a case where I should have equal chances at a residency if I put the effort in and do well?

I also have upcoming interviews at DMU, CCOM, UK and UW.
 
....but you ain't got no legs Lieutenant Dan
 
LieutenantDan said:
I am trying to decide on a school and my primary concern is being competitive for high level ACGME residency when I graduate, like Mayo, Cleveland clinic, Univ. of WA etc. Research is not a major priority other than as a means of getting a better residency.
.
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That is your primary concern then you should apply to only MD schools.
 
I'd revisit your question after you've gotten answers back from your interviews. Too early to tell.
 
LieutenantDan said:
I am trying to decide on a school and my primary concern is being competitive for high level ACGME residency when I graduate, like Mayo, Cleveland clinic, Univ. of WA etc. Research is not a major priority other than as a means of getting a better residency.

I expect to do well on the boards and to work my butt off for good grades, so I am wondering how important is: school reputation, knowing the professors well, quality of rotations and so on.

I am accepted to AZCOM and COMP-NW, and I have an interview soon at TUCOM-CA, I am hoping to ultimately practice on the West Coast after residency. I am leaning toward AZCOM at the moment but I have a lot of family near TUCOM-CA, and like the area better, is there enough of a difference between these schools to favor one over the other, or is it a case where I should have equal chances at a residency if I put the effort in and do well?

I also have upcoming interviews at DMU, CCOM, UK and UW.
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With regards to the DO schools:
CCOM => DMU => TUCOM-CA >>> AZCOM >> COMP-NW*

*COMP-NW is a brand new school so it is always a red flag but they seem to have decent rotations at their affiliated hospital in Corvallis!

-Does school make a big difference? Yes
-Does school's reputation make a HUGE difference? Yes.
-Does an individual's efforts make even a bigger difference? Yes
-Can you get into Mayo/CCF from those schools? Yes [I don't know about U of WA]
-Do you have to work hard? Yes
-In general, should you reconsider your views on life? Yes
 
bala565 said:
With regards to the DO schools:
CCOM => DMU => TUCOM-CA >>> AZCOM >> COMP-NW*

*COMP-NW is a brand new school so it is always a red flag but they seem to have decent rotations at their affiliated hospital in Corvallis!

-Does school make a big difference? Yes
-Does school's reputation make a HUGE difference? Yes.
-Does an individual's efforts make even a bigger difference? Yes
-Can you get into Mayo/CCF from those schools? Yes [I don't know about U of WA]
-Do you have to work hard? Yes
-In general, should you reconsider your views on life? Yes
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Why in that order? Many would put DMU higher than CCOM, and many more would put AZCOM over TUCOM-CA.

I agree with the second bolded part. There is much more to medicine (and life) than getting a household-name residency.
 
NurWollen said:
Why in that order? Many would put DMU higher than CCOM, and many more would put AZCOM over TUCOM-CA.

I agree with the second bolded part. There is much more to medicine (and life) than getting a household-name residency.
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Many don't know what they are talking about!

CCOM => DMU => TUCOM-CA >>> AZCOM >> COMP-NW*

Key: (=>) Essentially equal maybe a little better; (>>>) way better;

CCOM is practically equal to DMU, except that it is in Chicago, hence more rotation opportunities.

TUCOM-CA is way above AZCOM. Why would anyone reverse that order? just look at their match list. Also you are in CA which also means more rotation opportunities!
 
Well I have a specific area I want to practice so I can be near my family when I am finished, which happens to be a very competitive area so it is important that I get either a local residency or a well recognized one so that I have the best chance at employment there. Prestige and pride are not my concern I am looking at this from a practical perspective of getting the best shot of being near the people I care about.
So I don't think it is accurate to say my views on life are misguided, perhaps you thought I want a high level residency to pat my ego but that is simply not the case, in my view it is no different from wanting to go to the best school possible so as to leave as many doors open as possible.

I am simply trying to sort things out because looking at match lists most schools have at least a few students going to competitive residencies but it's tough to gauge how important the school is in these cases because it seems that every school has a few matches like this.


I'm surprised CCOM is at the top because AZCOM has much higher board pass rates and pretty strong rotations from what I understand. They have a lot of rotations even in CA from what I understand, including LA

I forgot I have an invite for OSUCOM too, not sure where that fits.
 
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Well, it's been said that where you do your residency has a high correlation to where you end up practicing. Where exactly do you want to practice? Have you shadowed any docs there and asked them the road they took to get there?

You've got to remember 2 very important points:
1. You don't have to be in the same state to do an away rotation at your residency of choice, and
2. You can go to a prestigious med school and do away rotations at all sorts of places, but you won't get in anywhere if you're a social dud.
 
bala565 said:
Mind to elaborate? so we can all learn!
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I preface this by saying that I am not a student at any of these institutions.

What I question somewhat is your huge disparity between CCOM and AZCOM, but more so how you rank TUCOM-CA being >>> over AZCOM. Or in your words, "TUCOM-CA is way above AZCOM."

You do realize that AZCOM has numerous rotation spots in CA, many of them pretty solid, right? You need more than a match list to justify the TUCOM vs AZCOM argument. I hold nothing against TUCOM, but apparently, they still have numerous issues to work out. Do a search.

And I don't know much about DMU, but I've heard good things and we'll just keep it at that.

But at this point, everything we say is probably moot because of this:
ManBroDude said:
I'd revisit your question after you've gotten answers back from your interviews. Too early to tell.
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OP, let's first wait until you get accepted at TUCOM and we'll take it from there. I'm rootin' for ya.
 
LieutenantDan said:
I am simply trying to sort things out because looking at match lists most schools have at least a few students going to competitive residencies but it's tough to gauge how important the school is in these cases because it seems that every school has a few matches like this.
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This isn't one of the best ways to go about choosing a school because the match list reflects the classes' preference of practice, not necessarily the school forcing the students into one specialty.
 
You want to stay competitive in a place like the Bay Area? It's all about ease of attainment; you'll have to work hard, but you can get there.

Easiest would be to aim for MD with UW/UK.
Second best would be CCOM/AZCOM (don't have any firsthand experience, but CCOM's rotations are more established. While AZCOM does offer LA rotations, better to stick with the ones closer to AZ esp in Banner Health system. confirm with current 3rd/4th years at these two places).
 
Thanks for the advice, I am not expecting to get into UW/UK with my EC's, but its good to have some great options on the table.
 
bala565 said:
Many don't know what they are talking about!

CCOM => DMU => TUCOM-CA >>> AZCOM >> COMP-NW*

Key: (=>) Essentially equal maybe a little better; (>>>) way better;

CCOM is practically equal to DMU, except that it is in Chicago, hence more rotation opportunities.

TUCOM-CA is way above AZCOM. Why would anyone reverse that order? just look at their match list. Also you are in CA which also means more rotation opportunities!
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You are out of your mind if you think that TUCOM is above AZCOM.

AZCOM's USMLE scores last year beat the national average for MD schools. Our pass rate was 99% last year on the COMLEX with our score 20 points higher than the national average. Yes, I'm biased because I go here but you are delusional if you think that is the order of things.

Also, AZCOM has more than 50 spots to do 3rd year rotations in California.... I'll be in LA in a year and a half.
 
DbDan said:
You are out of your mind if you think that TUCOM is above AZCOM.

AZCOM's USMLE scores last year beat the national average for MD schools. Our pass rate was 99% last year on the COMLEX with our score 20 points higher than the national average. Yes, I'm biased because I go here but you are delusional if you think that is the order of things.

Also, AZCOM has more than 50 spots to do 3rd year rotations in California.... I'll be in LA in a year and a half.
Click to expand...

First of all, I don't attend any of the schools that are being discussed in this forum and therefore have no vested interest in the outcome.

Also, I can care less about a school's COMLEX/USMLE pass rates or averages. That is NOT what makes good physicians.

But as a person who has been around for few years now and can view these two schools from an outsider point of view (since I'm not a student at any of them), I will tell you that in my opinion (and a lot of other people's opinion) TUCOM >> AZCOM and here is why:

AZCOM is a branch campus with a class size of 250+ compared to TUCOM which is a main campus school with a class size of <150. To me, those are very important differences (to you they might not be)!

If I was forced to choose between AZCOM and TUCOM, I would choose TUCOM any day. That doesn't mean AZCOM is a "bad" school, it just means that everything else equal TUCOM is a better option (at least for me and IMO).

Now, if there are specific issues going on with any of the schools that I don't know about, that changes everything and if you know something that we don't, please share!

Last but not least, now that you are a medical student you have to learn that when you disagree with someone, you state your points without calling people "delusional" or other names just because you disagree with them. Believe it or not, there are people out there that might not agree with you. Learning this fundamental rule in communication will certainly help you on rotations in LA or any other place that you might end up.
 
bala565 said:
First of all, I don't attend any of the schools that are being discussed in this forum and therefore have no vested interest in the outcome.

Also, I can care less about a school's COMLEX/USMLE pass rates or averages. That is NOT what makes good physicians.

But as a person who has been around for few years now and can view these two schools from an outsider point of view (since I'm not a student at any of them), I will tell you that in my opinion (and a lot of other people's opinion) TUCOM >> AZCOM and here is why:

AZCOM is a branch campus with a class size of 250+ compared to TUCOM which is a main campus school with a class size of <150. To me, those are very important differences (to you they might not be)!

If I was forced to choose between AZCOM and TUCOM, I would choose TUCOM any day. That doesn't mean AZCOM is a "bad" school, it just means that everything else equal TUCOM is a better option (at least for me and IMO).

Now, if there are specific issues going on with any of the schools that I don't know about, that changes everything and if you know something that we don't, please share!

Last but not least, now that you are a medical student you have to learn that when you disagree with someone, you state your points without calling people "delusional" or other names just because you disagree with them. Believe it or not, there are people out there that might not agree with you. Learning this fundamental rule in communication will certainly help you on rotations in LA or any other place that you might end up.
Click to expand...


As you said, whether something is a branch campus or not being important is a very subjective thing. I'm curious to know, why is it, at least to you, a negative? Branch campuses get trashed on SDN a lot, but I'm not sure why.
 
bala565 said:
First of all, I don't attend any of the schools that are being discussed in this forum and therefore have no vested interest in the outcome.

Also, I can care less about a school's COMLEX/USMLE pass rates or averages. That is NOT what makes good physicians.
Stats please :laugh
But seriously, board scores are important for everything including matching into your specialty of choice. Maybe it's not correlated with better doctors, but I'm sure lower board scores are probably correlated with being a crappier doctor usually since you'll probably recieve training in a lower hospital or clinic. Sorry.:

But as a person who has been around for few years now and can view these two schools from an outsider point of view (since I'm not a student at any of them), I will tell you that in my opinion (and a lot of other people's opinion) TUCOM >> AZCOM and here is why:

AZCOM is a branch campus with a class size of 250+ compared to TUCOM which is a main campus school with a class size of <150. To me, those are very important differences (to you they might not be)!
AZCOM is in a good area of creation. It's also warmer.
If I was forced to choose between AZCOM and TUCOM, I would choose TUCOM any day. That doesn't mean AZCOM is a "bad" school, it just means that everything else equal TUCOM is a better option (at least for me and IMO).
I'd choose AZCOM, but I am also someone who values my existence so I'd rather not live in the realm of Earthquakes. Anyways, again AZCOM has proven through match lists, strong scores and overall better temperature to be superior.

Now, if there are specific issues going on with any of the schools that I don't know about, that changes everything and if you know something that we don't, please share!

Last but not least, now that you are a medical student you have to learn that when you disagree with someone, you state your points without calling people "delusional" or other names just because you disagree with them. Believe it or not, there are people out there that might not agree with you. Learning this fundamental rule in communication will certainly help you on rotations in LA or any other place that you might end up.
Click to expand...

AZCOM = Pricey, but a great history of matches and board scores.
 
NurWollen said:
As you said, whether something is a branch campus or not being important is a very subjective thing. I'm curious to know, why is it, at least to you, a negative? Branch campuses get trashed on SDN a lot, but I'm not sure why.
Click to expand...

Because the whole reason behind having a branch campus is to circumvent the COCA accreditation standards. Basically it's a ploy by the main campus schools to make more money without having the same requirements needed at the main campus (especially with regards to senior faculty/administration). Therefore, usually they tend to be subpar to main campus schools. If they were totally equal, then why would they be a branch campus and not another separate COM?

Hint: They don't meet the requirements as a separate COM.
 
bala565 said:
Because the whole reason behind having a branch campus is to circumvent the COCA accreditation standards. Basically it's a ploy by the main campus schools to make more money without having the same requirements needed at the main campus (especially with regards to senior faculty/administration). Therefore, usually they tend to be subpar to main campus schools. If they were totally equal, then why would they be a branch campus and not another separate COM?
Click to expand...

Mayo Clinic Match.
Rotations with CCOM

What's to complain? It's probably in the top half of rotations ranking.
 
bala565 said:
Because the whole reason behind having a branch campus is to circumvent the COCA accreditation standards. Basically it's a ploy by the main campus schools to make more money without having the same requirements needed at the main campus (especially with regards to senior faculty/administration). Therefore, usually they tend to be subpar to main campus schools. If they were totally equal, then why would they be a branch campus and not another separate COM?

Hint: They don't meet the requirements as a separate COM.
Click to expand...

COCA has standards?
 
serenade said:
Mayo Clinic Match.
Rotations with CCOM

What's to complain? It's probably in the top half of rotations ranking.
Click to expand...

You obviously prefer AZCOM. Fine. I don't.

The OP asked for opinions. I gave mine. You can give yours. You don't have to convince me. I'm not looking to go to another medical school!

serenade said:
COCA has standards?
Click to expand...

You are just too funny! 👎
 
bala565 said:
You obviously prefer AZCOM. Fine. I don't.

The OP asked for opinions. I gave mine. You can give yours. You don't have to convince me. I'm not looking to go to another medical school!



You are just too funny! 👎
Click to expand...


My intention was not to convince you, but rather to make an astute point. Also maybe a bit to get one of your classic explosions of osteopathic magic and to have you summon the ghost of A.T.Still to have him rain his fists of osteopathy against me while I enjoy the battle from a distance and sip tea...


.... I have a good imagination, I'm sure that's good for medical school right?
 
serenade said:
My intention was not to convince you, but rather to make an astute point. Also maybe a bit to get one of your classic explosions of osteopathic magic and to have you summon the ghost of A.T.Still to have him rain his fists of osteopathy against me while I enjoy the battle from a distance and sip tea...


.... I have a good imagination, I'm sure that's good for medical school right?
Click to expand...

😕😕😕
 
bala565 said:
😕😕😕
Click to expand...


I forgot, you're not in the Osteopathic Mage class yet, you need to go through OMS-3 before getting that upgrade and being able to summon A.T. Still as a battle avatar. Sorry, but hey? Something to look forward to haha.
 
serenade said:
I forgot, you're not in the Osteopathic Mage class yet, you need to go through OMS-3 before being able to summon A.T. Still as a battle avatar. Sorry, but hey? Something to look forward to haha.
Click to expand...

😕😕😕😕

Whatever dude!
 
serenade said:
Have you ever played a RPG or MMORPG? Or are you just trolling me here....
Click to expand...

Dude I really don't have a clue what you're talking about!!! 😕😕 You lost me about like 5 posts ago! 😕😕
 
But uhhm.... correct me if I'm wrong...

AZCOM has its own 7 year accreditation received by the COCA in 2007 through 2014. I don't believe this is "piggybacking" off CCOM's accreditation. As for being its own COM, it is? It's just within the Midwestern System (CCOM + AZCOM). You can say the same thing about TOURO-CA.. it's within the TOURO System (CA + NV + NY), however I guess you could say it is the base camp since it was created first.

Western-Lebanon is certainly piggybacking off Pomona's Accreditation, calling it a satellite campus, but this relationship is not the same as AZCOM<->CCOM's relationship. Lebanon currently suffers from having professors that aren't actually present on the campus giving tests, while AZCOM has its own separate faculty, etc.

I don't think anyone doubts that CCOM is a great school, been around for a long time.. but when comparing TOURO-CA to AZCOM (I'm from Cali and want to stay near/in Cali), Touro-CA wasn't even in my top 10. AZCOM is my #2. Also, if you want to go by years established, AZCOM beats Touro-CA by 2 years.. AZCOM 1995, Touro-CA 1997. (not much, but we're nitpicking here)

I don't disagree with your opinion, but for me, I ranked AZCOM a lot higher than TOURO-CA for the location, rotation sites (Los Angeles), quality of education, current student opinions, board scores, and match list, in that order.
 
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DrWily said:
But uhhm.... correct me if I'm wrong...

AZCOM has its own 7 year accreditation received by the COCA in 2007 through 2014. I don't believe this is "piggybacking" off CCOM's accreditation. As for being its own COM, it is? It's just within the Midwestern System (CCOM + AZCOM). You can say the same thing about TOURO-CA.. it's within the TOURO System (CA + NV + NY), however I guess you could say it is the base camp since it was created first.

Western-Lebanon is certainly piggybacking off Pomona's Accreditation, calling it a satellite campus, but this relationship is not the same as AZCOM<->CCOM's relationship. Lebanon currently suffers from having professors that aren't actually present on the campus giving tests, while AZCOM has its own separate faculty, etc.

I don't think anyone doubts that CCOM is a great school, been around for a long time.. but when comparing TOURO-CA to AZCOM (I'm from Cali and want to stay near/in Cali), Touro-CA wasn't even in my top 10. AZCOM is my #2. Also, if you want to go by years established, AZCOM beats Touro-CA by 2 years.. AZCOM 1995, Touro-CA 1997. (not much, but we're nitpicking here)

I don't disagree with your opinion, but for me, I ranked AZCOM a lot higher than TOURO-CA for the location, rotation sites (Los Angeles), quality of education, current student opinions, board scores, and match list, in that order.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion and your choice... It's your life and you know better what you are looking for.... I was just stating my opinion which for people who are choosing a school shouldn't even be in their top 20 reasons why they choose a particular school.

However just to clear somethings up for you:
AZCOM is NOT a separate COM but a branch campus of CCOM. Branch campuses have to meet a lower accreditation standards. TUCOM-CA and Turo-NY are base campuses and have nothing to do with each other except that they share a common name/parent org. but as far as COCA is concerned they are two different entities. TUCOM-NV is a branch campus of TUCOM-CA which is the same as CCOM - AZCOM relationship.

Now, satellite campus are just an extension of a school which means that they are not even recognized as a separate campus which in turn means that they have close to zero standards (fairly sad story actually). Talk to LECOM-seaton hill kids!

In any event, good luck to you!
 
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bala565 said:
I respect your opinion and your choice... It's your life and you know better what you are looking for.... I was just stating my opinion which for people who are choosing a school shouldn't even be in their top 20 reasons why they choose a particular school.

However just to clear somethings up for you:
AZCOM is NOT a separate COM but a branch campus of CCOM. Branch campuses have to meet a lower accreditation standards. TUCOM-CA and Turo-NY are base campuses and have nothing to do with each other except that they share a common name/parent org. but as far as COCA is concerned they are two different entities. TUCOM-NV is a branch campus of TUCOM-CA which is the same as CCOM - AZCOM relationship.

Now, satelite campus are just an extension of a school which means that they are not even recognized as a separate campus which in turn means that they have close to zero standards (fairly sad story actually). Talk to LECOM-seaton hill kids!

In any event, good luck to you!
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up 👍
 
bala565 said:
I respect your opinion and your choice... It's your life and you know better what you are looking for.... I was just stating my opinion which for people who are choosing a school shouldn't even be in their top 20 reasons why they choose a particular school.

However just to clear somethings up for you:
AZCOM is NOT a separate COM but a branch campus of CCOM. Branch campuses have to meet a lower accreditation standards. TUCOM-CA and Turo-NY are base campuses and have nothing to do with each other except that they share a common name/parent org. but as far as COCA is concerned they are two different entities. TUCOM-NV is a branch campus of TUCOM-CA which is the same as CCOM - AZCOM relationship.

Now, satelite campus are just an extension of a school which means that they are not even recognized as a separate campus which in turn means that they have close to zero standards (fairly sad story actually). Talk to LECOM-seaton hill kids!

In any event, good luck to you!
Click to expand...

AZCOM is not considered a branch campus of CCOM. Refer to the AOA site (http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/about/affiliates/Pages/osteopathic-medical-schools.aspx). Some schools are specifically denoted as branch campuses (Touro-NV, Western-NW, PCOM-Georgia, etc), whereas AZCOM is not.
 
I got high waitlisted at TUCOM CA so this may be moot now. Looking at match lists AZCOM seemed to have more desirable matches but both were good. I got a better vibe from AZCOM too, so I am probably going to hold on to their acceptance and withdraw from TUCOMCA. I am only bummed because I was hoping for a confidence boost for my upcoming CCOM and DMU interviews, but with TUCOMCAs interview I had less than ten minutes to answer questions so it really wasn't too representative of anything IMO.
 
LieutenantDan said:
I got high waitlisted at TUCOM CA so this may be moot now. Looking at match lists AZCOM seemed to have more desirable matches but both were good. I got a better vibe from AZCOM too, so I am probably going to hold on to their acceptance and withdraw from TUCOMCA. I am only bummed because I was hoping for a confidence boost for my upcoming CCOM and DMU interviews, but with TUCOMCAs interview I had less than ten minutes to answer questions so it really wasn't too representative of anything IMO.
Click to expand...
Nah, don't worry. Getting into med school is subjective. A rejection from one school doesn't mean you're not going to blow away other schools. Good luck.👍
 
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