AZPod Rocks or perhaps AZPod Crocks???

[mrfeet]

It's been a while since we've had some good ole' controversy and the forum has been a little dead lately since the summer, so I thought, what the hell, why not stir up a little controversy.

In recent months on this forum I have seen several AZPod students post on here how their school is now the best. Even going as far as self-ranking it above schools such as Scholl and Temple. Let's analyze this for a minute.

First of all, rankings of podiatry schools truly are irrelevant, b/c as it has been said previously, board scores are not released and therefore accurate rankings cannot be made. Also, with so few podiatry schools, ranking is a moot point. However, if we are going to rank (which is in our human nature to do so), lets see what determines a school's rank and standing in relation to others.

(1) Its history and established presence within its field. (e.g.) Harvard is the oldest college in America and has a long history of academic excellence and exemplary teaching.

(2) Its curriculum. The particular curriculum of a school gives strong support to whether or not a school is considered academically challenging and therefore of high standard. (e.g.) A school that tells prospective students that they may take a fifth year if they fail classes would obviously not meet this criterion.

(3) The strength of its faculty. Historically, schools such as Harvard, Yale, and Duke are ranked so high in polls due to the fact that their faculties are world-reknown and so well educated themselves.

(4) Research, research, research!!! In the medical community, this is without a shadow of a doubt, one of the most critical aspects of ranking. So important, that U.S. News and World Report ranks medical schools in two categories: Research and Primary Care. However, most authorities consider research to be the more important of the two. Therefore, Johns Hopkins and Harvard are year after year considered the best due to their impeccable research programs.

(5) Board scores. Unfortunately this doesn't do us a lot of good b/c board scores aren't released.

(6) Reputation amongst contemporaries. Though this one is a bit subjective, the reputation that a school has amongst the contemporaries of its field and especially residency program directors is very, very important.

With this in mind, lets take a look at how AZPod scores.

* Obviously they're out of luck on #1. They haven't even graduated a class yet.

* They win on #2, b/c they do have a strong curriculum.

* They win on #3 b/c Midwestern's faculty is very good, allowing it to be ranked as the best osteopathic school in the country.

* They lose on #4, as do most osteopathic schools. Research at most DO schools is not emphasized.

* They lose on #6, they have no residents as of yet!!!

Bottom line, aside from strength of curriculum and faculty, they are infants in the podiatric medical world and should never, never, never, place themselves above schools such as Scholl or Temple that have long and established programs with great reputations.

Sorry guys, but hey, ITS THE TRUTH!!!

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[Kamran654]

with all do respect I am very much curious to hear your point on NYCPM..

regards,

Kamran
NYCPM

 

[Kamran654]

with all do respect I am very much curious to hear your point on NYCPM..

regards,

Kamran
NYCPM

 

[mrfeet]

with all do respect I am very much curious to hear your point on NYCPM..

regards,

Kamran
NYCPM

I have great respect for NYCPM. It has a long tradition of podiatric medical education. However, if you want me to score it with my scale, hey, I'll do it:

(1) NYCPM is the oldest podiatric medical school in the U.S., therefore its tradition of education is well established.

(2) NYCPM's autonomy and lack of affiliation with an allopathic or osteopathic medical school hurts in the curriculum category. Affiliated schools such as DMU and Scholl, consistently have more challenging curriculums.

(3) As just mentioned, the fact that NYCPM still stands on its own, the lack of higher ranking professors as are seen at the affiliated schools, creates a lackluster situation for academic excellence.

(4) Category #4 perhaps hurts NYCPM the most. The fact that it has published very little research over the years and does not stress this point prevents it from achievement and advancement in podiatric education.

(6) I'll give it a thumbs up in regards to reputation as it does have a well established one, especially in the northeast. Most residency directors are aware of NYCPM and its graduates. The school has produced many fine podiatric physicians over the years.

There are many other factors that play into NYCPM being ranked lower. The fact that NYCPM broke away from the AACPM years ago and declared its independence as a podiatric medical school created a lot of tension. It is for this reason that statistics on the AACPM website include a footnote that states, "does not include statistics for NYCPM for 2001-2004."

I hope that in coming years NYCPM will seek affiliation with a university in New York, such as Columbia or NYU. This could only strengthen its position.

 

[Kamran654]

thank you but just out of curiosity do all other schools have some sort of affliations with colleges of such mentioned.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

(3) The strength of its faculty. Historically, schools such as Harvard, Yale, and Duke are ranked so high in polls due to the fact that their faculties are world-reknown and so well educated themselves.

(4) Research, research, research!!! In the medical community, this is without a shadow of a doubt, one of the most critical aspects of ranking. So important, that U.S. News and World Report ranks medical schools in two categories: Research and Primary Care. However, most authorities consider research to be the more important of the two. Therefore, Johns Hopkins and Harvard are year after year considered the best due to their impeccable research programs.

I have two questions about these areas. One, state faculty are important. I agree, but are you basing this off of being "world-renown" or being solid caring educators. I am not saying these two things are polar opposites, but commonly to become "world-renown" you spend more time self promoting and less time promoting your pupils. Therefore, how famous your faculty is has no effect on the quality of knowledge they bestow.

Two, research is important but they rate these separate b/c they are separate areas of medicine. A vast majority of medical students (I would say 80-90%) never do research while in school. That is why they rate the education and the research. Many times the emphasis in research is due to the money and reputation it generates, not its contribution to the students education. At DMU, most of the research that is associated w/ COMS is done by the basic science professors. This is true at most medical schools. A biochemist works on cancer agents or a anatomist works on pain receptors, ect.

One example is Scholl, probably the top school in way of podiatric research, but it is separate from the school. Dr. Armstrong works mainly in the CLEAR lab and not in the classroom. Personally, I think that the quality of the research and not quantity is more important. This is why I think Lamont's work at Temple blows Armstrong away.


Anyways, I just thought that these areas need clarification.

 

[mrfeet]

thank you but just out of curiosity do all other schools have some sort of affliations with colleges of such mentioned.

Six of the eight podiatry schools have affiliations with academic institutions, although only four of the six are medical schools. CPMS has affiliation with Des Moines University and the DMU College of Osteopathic Medicine. AZPod has affiliation with Midwestern University and the Midwestern University School of Osteopathic Medicine. Scholl has affiliation with Rosalind Franklin University and The Chicago Medical School. Lastly, TUSPM has affiliation with Temple University and The Temple University School of Medicine.

Though some of the programs are not fully integrated as with DMU, the previous four schools all have open affiliations and share faculty with their respective allopathic and osteopathic counterparts.

The only two schools that still maintain complete autonomy are OCPM and NYCPM.

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

MrFeet,

Nice personal attack. It shows a lack of class and largely invalidates the body of your post because of the lack of maturity demonstrated and the obviously emotionally charged topic for you. I am sorry if my assertion of AZPOD's qualities make you somehow feel inferior and defensive.

Hmmm....

1) History - Old doesn't mean good. The concepts "old" and "good" are mutually exclusive. There is no logical foundation for this assertion. But you are right, AZPOD has no history yet... and that means very little.

2) Basic Sciences - AZPOD has the best basic science courses available to any school of podiatric medicine.

3) Strength of Faculty - AZPOD is comprised almost entirely of all-stars from across the country.

4) Research - Many of said all-star faculty have extensive backgrounds and have created procedures used world-wide now (e.g. - endoscopic plantar fasciotomy). Nearly every faculty member is engaged extensively in research as we speak and invite students to participate. I'm not saying research at AZPOD is any better than any other school but I doubt any other school is doing significantly more research than that being done at AZPOD. So, yet one more "AZPOD doesn't belong in the top two" crazy idea nullified.

5) Board Scores - We'll argue this one in a couple of months when AZPOD's inaugural class scores a perfect pass rate. I'm not just talking a high score, I am talking 100%, baby!

6) Reputation - AZPOD's reputation for every phase completed is exceptional. But you have me on this one. We have no residents of which to speak.

So, next time you attack me, personally, please have slightly more logic and please think it out more before posting. You have yet to dethrone AZPOD from the top 2 schools of podiatric medicine.

Good Luck,

AZPOD ROCKS

 

[ProdPod]

My two cents!

 

[gustydoc]

My two cents!

hilarious!

 

[Kamran654]

FUNNY.....

let me add to what you said... "AZ ROCKS"... with all do respect I don't think MrFeet was trying to put you down in anyway, I think it was a classy discussion and both sides were able to give their parts and its up to the other readers to gather their own information and go from there as for who rocks and who sucks, TIME WILL TELL...

 

[gustydoc]

MrFeet,

Nice personal attack. It shows a lack of class and largely invalidates the body of your post because of the lack of maturity demonstrated and the obviously emotionally charged topic for you. I am sorry if my assertion of AZPOD's qualities make you somehow feel inferior and defensive.

Hmmm....

1) History - Old doesn't mean good. The concepts "old" and "good" are mutually exclusive. There is no logical foundation for this assertion. But you are right, AZPOD has no history yet... and that means very little.

2) Basic Sciences - AZPOD has the best basic science courses available to any school of podiatric medicine.

3) Strength of Faculty - AZPOD is comprised almost entirely of all-stars from across the country.

4) Research - Many of said all-star faculty have extensive backgrounds and have created procedures used world-wide now (e.g. - endoscopic plantar fasciotomy). Nearly every faculty member is engaged extensively in research as we speak and invite students to participate. I'm not saying research at AZPOD is any better than any other school but I doubt any other school is doing significantly more research than that being done at AZPOD. So, yet one more "AZPOD doesn't belong in the top two" crazy idea nullified.

5) Board Scores - We'll argue this one in a couple of months when AZPOD's inaugural class scores a perfect pass rate. I'm not just talking a high score, I am talking 100%, baby!

6) Reputation - AZPOD's reputation for every phase completed is exceptional. But you have me on this one. We have no residents of which to speak.

So, next time you attack me, personally, please have slightly more logic and please think it out more before posting. You have yet to dethrone AZPOD from the top 2 schools of podiatric medicine.

Good Luck,

AZPOD ROCKS

Yet again another thread that has spiraled out of control. AZPOD Rocks I will say that I have appreciated some of your previous posts and that I also appreciate your enthusiasm for your school, but the bottom line is that many of your statements simply have no backing. I still believe that in the very near future AZPOD will prove to be one of if not the best of the 8 pod schools, but you are getting way ahead of yourself. First of all you really should wait until you actually begin medical school before professing how amazing your school is. This thread may have been uncalled for, but I won't go so far as to say it was unprovoked. Remember that we are all future colleagues and it is pointless to get into a bickering match over who made the best decision on where to attend school. I could spend a great deal of time complaining about what is going on at other programs and talk about how DMU is the best, but what good would that do me or our profession? When I do choose to bring up a topic I make a conscious effort to only speak from experience and not to belittle my peers simply because they are learning the same thing somewhere else. Bottom line is that AZPOD is of yet completely unproven in the podiatric community. As I said I have high expectations for you all, but we will wait and see how things turn out. I appreciate your contributions to SDN, but wait until you see the inside of a classroom beyond a school tour before you talk about how AZPOD is the best in podiatric education.

 

[Kamran654]

A BIT HARSH BUT ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!

great job...

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

I still believe that in the very near future AZPOD will prove to be one of if not the best of the 8 pod schools. First of all you really should wait until you actually begin medical school before professing how amazing your school is. Bottom line is that AZPOD is of yet completely unproven in the podiatric community. As I said I have high expectations for you all, but we will wait and see how things turn out. I appreciate your contributions to SDN, but wait until you see the inside of a classroom beyond a school tour before you talk about how AZPOD is the best in podiatric education.

Gustydoc,

I see why on previous posts you may have thought me someone who was just spouting off. I appreciate your points in this post. However, please realize that I have been at MWU-Glendale for 2 years now working on 2 degrees and have far more than "a school tour" under my belt. I know the inside of the classroom with the med school faculty (DO and DPM) quite well.

My posts are not meant to belittle any fellow students from other schools. As stated previously, I know great podiatrists from nearly every podiatric medical school in the country and have great respect for them. I hope to practice alongside those from other schools and will feel privileged to do so.

I want to get the word out and keep it out about AZPOD's high quality training. I hope those with the most competitive applications choose to apply to our school. Not for the selfish reasons one might infer but because the curriculum is insanely hard and we have had at least 1/4 students get booted during these first 2 years. I want all of the students to be academically prepared.

I hope this clarifies my reasoning and point of view. Please note also that my comments on previous posts have often been to those who "were asking for it" by "ranking" AZPOD low on their lists.

AZPOD Rocks

 

[mrfeet]

MrFeet,

Nice personal attack. It shows a lack of class and largely invalidates the body of your post because of the lack of maturity demonstrated and the obviously emotionally charged topic for you. I am sorry if my assertion of AZPOD's qualities make you somehow feel inferior and defensive.

Hmmm....

1) History - Old doesn't mean good. The concepts "old" and "good" are mutually exclusive. There is no logical foundation for this assertion. But you are right, AZPOD has no history yet... and that means very little.

2) Basic Sciences - AZPOD has the best basic science courses available to any school of podiatric medicine.

3) Strength of Faculty - AZPOD is comprised almost entirely of all-stars from across the country.

4) Research - Many of said all-star faculty have extensive backgrounds and have created procedures used world-wide now (e.g. - endoscopic plantar fasciotomy). Nearly every faculty member is engaged extensively in research as we speak and invite students to participate. I'm not saying research at AZPOD is any better than any other school but I doubt any other school is doing significantly more research than that being done at AZPOD. So, yet one more "AZPOD doesn't belong in the top two" crazy idea nullified.

5) Board Scores - We'll argue this one in a couple of months when AZPOD's inaugural class scores a perfect pass rate. I'm not just talking a high score, I am talking 100%, baby!

6) Reputation - AZPOD's reputation for every phase completed is exceptional. But you have me on this one. We have no residents of which to speak.

So, next time you attack me, personally, please have slightly more logic and please think it out more before posting. You have yet to dethrone AZPOD from the top 2 schools of podiatric medicine.

Good Luck,

AZPOD ROCKS

Well, for starters sport, if I had wanted to be immature and display a lack of class I would have used things in my post such as:

"AZPod really sucks"
"These people need to grow up"
"My school is better than yours"

Instead I actually took the time to formulate six categories for ranking a school. And lets face it, you guys didn't get thumbs up in every category. Therefore, you cannot assert that you are the best.

As far as feeling inferior, I am proud of where I am going to school. Its one of the top tier schools and has a great reputation for quality education. I simply posted this to bruise your ego a little bit. Doctors always need a good ego bruise every now and again.

 

[mrfeet]

The cow bell isn't curing my fever!

 

[mrfeet]

 

[capo]

Truthfully, debating rankings of schools shows total immaturity on everyone's part. Who cares, first of all? Secondl, as I've said before, and many, many physicians have stated on here, that the school is merely a vehicle to sitting for boards. It's clearly the INDIVIDUAL that makes the sole DIFFERENCE when it comes to achievement of that goal.

So really we need to quit the petty arguments and reserve them for grade schoolers still saying, "my daddy's bigger than your daddy!". Let's growup a bit and act a tad more our age -- unless you're still in grade school.

Which if that's the case -- where does YOUR grade school rank in the country?

 

[mrfeet]

Truthfully, debating rankings of schools shows total immaturity on everyone's part. Who cares, first of all? Secondl, as I've said before, and many, many physicians have stated on here, that the school is merely a vehicle to sitting for boards. It's clearly the INDIVIDUAL that makes the sole DIFFERENCE when it comes to achievement of that goal.

So really we need to quit the petty arguments and reserve them for grade schoolers still saying, "my daddy's bigger than your daddy!". Let's growup a bit and act a tad more our age -- unless you're still in grade school.

Which if that's the case -- where does YOUR grade school rank in the country?

Hey, MY DADDY IS BIGGER THAN YOUR DADDY!!!

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

Which if that's the case -- where does YOUR grade school rank in the country?

Awesome post!

 

[doclm]

The cow bell isn't curing my fever!

Is that what its used for?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Is that what its used for?

It has widely used (my cowbell that is) to cure everything from fever to WMCDS (White Men Can't Dance Syndrome). The power of my cowbell is similar to that crap they teach at DO schools called OMM.

Anywho, I do agree that in theory that AZPOD is a top tier school. But we all are men and women of science, and you need proof. Therefore, I must agree in part with Mr.Feet's analysis. AZPOD, do see this as an attack on you or your schools but an opportunity to prove that AZPOD is a great college.

Second, I still think that CPMS has the best basic science.

Now, I must return to ringing my bell.

 

[IlizaRob]

It has widely used (my cowbell that is) to cure everything from fever to WMCDS (White Men Can't Dance Syndrome). The power of my cowbell is similar to that crap they teach at DO schools called OMM.

Anywho, I do agree that in theory that AZPOD is a top tier school. But we all are men and women of science, and you need proof. Therefore, I must agree in part with Mr.Feet's analysis. AZPOD, do see this as an attack on you or your schools but an opportunity to prove that AZPOD is a great college.

Second, I still think that CPMS has the best basic science.

Now, I must return to ringing my bell.

Oh, thank goodness for the cowbell. I was beginning to think that this thread could never be saved. Thanks cowbell.

 

[doclm]

WOW....

That cowbell must have some amazing powers to compete with OMM.
Just think, we could all use that to cure Diebetic feet, Fungus nails, after surgery to increase healing time, and have people come in periodically to keep their foot infections away. Beats antibiotics right?

However, we may not have the physical bond the DO students have with each other. Well since we are not stimulating each others OMM points hours each day, I guess we could play each other a cowbell tune to keep ourselves in check.