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deleted87051
Unvaxxed, unmasked teacher infects half their class with delta including 80% of the first 2 rows. Apparently it’s especially important to mask while you’re talking. Tell your kids to sit in the back😉
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Read it quickly and under influence.
They didn’t mentioned if any of the students had to seek inpatient care, right? If my kid was infected by an anti-vax teacher, and had to be hospitalized, you bet I will find someone to pay for the irresponsibility.
They didn’t mentioned if any of the students had to seek inpatient care, right? If my kid was infected by an anti-vax teacher, and had to be hospitalized, you bet I will find someone to pay for the irresponsibility.
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deleted87051
I don’t think anybody got terribly sick.
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At the risk of being shouted down:
There is an ever so slight risk of severe disease with kids, probably no higher, and quite likely lower than the risk of severe disease with the flu. why does it matter much if the kids got it, it’s practically a cold for them. I didn’t care about colds a few years ago, why now? If everyone who wants to be vaccinated got the vaccine and enough are vaccinated in this region then their isn’t a risk of overwhelming the health care system, from a societal stand point, that’s what really matters since kids are low risk. Get back to normal. Herd immunity is an absolute joke and pipe dream at this point and we need to learn how to live with this.
By the way, Im not sure it matters if the teacher was vaccinated or not. with delta, the risk of spread is likely very similar regardless.
For the record, I’m pro vaccine and vaccinated.
There is an ever so slight risk of severe disease with kids, probably no higher, and quite likely lower than the risk of severe disease with the flu. why does it matter much if the kids got it, it’s practically a cold for them. I didn’t care about colds a few years ago, why now? If everyone who wants to be vaccinated got the vaccine and enough are vaccinated in this region then their isn’t a risk of overwhelming the health care system, from a societal stand point, that’s what really matters since kids are low risk. Get back to normal. Herd immunity is an absolute joke and pipe dream at this point and we need to learn how to live with this.
By the way, Im not sure it matters if the teacher was vaccinated or not. with delta, the risk of spread is likely very similar regardless.
For the record, I’m pro vaccine and vaccinated.
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How are people still trying to compare covid to a cold???
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In case you missed the news being vaccinated is not a free pass on delta. Vaccinated people are being hospitalized and sometimes dieing from delta. The ‘learn to live with this’ attitude is why delta is ****ing up the healthcare system right now. Everyone stopped giving a **** because it was boring and now all the icus are full and half the nurses and rts quit because it’s too much to watch the nightmare happen over again except to a bunch of younger people.
It matters because those 28 kids infected their families who infected an unknown number of other people. The goal isnt to let the virus run rampant right up until the healthcare system is about to collapse because by then it is too late. We need to adjust what normal is because the rules have changed.
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It matters because now those kids are stuck at home for 10 days. Unless they already have a stay at home parent, it now means the parent(s) have to find childcare which almost certainly means staying home with them because who else will stay at home with someone else's COVID positive kid?
This is what absolutely infuriates me. We apparently don't want to force kids to wear masks because it somehow affects their ability to learn. You know what affects it more? Virtual learning. Which is what you have to do when you're stuck at home because you're sick or quarantining because a classmate was sick.
There are multiple schools in my area who have gone 100% virtual for 2 weeks due to massive outbreaks. Is that really better for kids than having to wear a mask? Oh, and I'm sure parents having to take that much time off of work is just great for the economy as well.
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There are school systems offering NO virtual learning this year, along with NO mask mandates. So your class has an outbreak and everyone needs to quarantine? Okay great, good luck home schooling parents because the school system isn't helping ya out.
The amount of sheer idiocy surrounding simple things like vaccinating, distancing, and masking all for the sake of PROTECTING EVERYONE, astounds me every second of everyday and though I had no real hope for humanity anyway (aside from my kids) I just feel bad for their future now.
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The vaccine is keeping people from dying of delta and keeping them out of the hospital. Mostly. It isn't preventing them from disease contraction or transmission. Kids aren't vaccinated and can get COVID delta and need to sit at home for more than a week. Who takes care of them if parents need to work? The grandmother/grandfather on 10-15 meds? Who works if the parents (even if vaccinated) get COVID and have flu symptoms for a week or more and need to quarantine/not work. Who pays their bills?
This isn't even touching on the fact that with delta we ARE seeing more sick kids, kids in ICUs, and younger adults dying.
There are many reasons why low risk doesn't matter and this is an absolute wildfire of a societal disaster because Americans 'have tuh pruhtect muh freeeeedommssss!!!'.
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Give me liberty or give me death!
I choose death, for me, for you, for grandmas, for your little kids, for your teenage kids, for your young adult kids!!
I was surprised that new delta airline policy didn’t get more publicity. Hurt them where it hurts, their wallets. Increase insurance premiums and dock their pay or limit their sick days when they come down with covid. $200 isn’t a whole lot, and definitely won’t cover hospital bills, but it’s still something…
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I think we’ll start seeing other companies follow suit. I wouldn’t be surprised if insurance companies start charging higher premiums for unvaccinated, similar to how they already do for smokers.
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HumCo Records Three More COVID Deaths, Including First of Fully Vaccinated Person
Three more Humboldt County residents have died of COVID-19, including one in their 20s and the county's first fatality in a "breakthrough" case in a...
m.northcoastjournal.com
The death rate in vaccinated people according to the CDC is .0011%. What’s the death rate in an average flu season in vaccinated patients?
It’s clear the public health vaccine push simply isn’t working on a large proportion of the population. Slowly businesses are requiring the vaccine but this will continue to be slow. You know what has worked and worked fast? Actual infection. Vaccination rates skyrocketed in MS/Alabama after things went nuts. Unfortunately that’s the reality we live in. It sucks, the attrition of nurses sucks, the stress sucks. Once the wave passes and a combined number of natural immunity with vaccine immunity climbs to a threshold, the risk of flooding health care facilities will also pass.
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stop the quarantining or staying home unless the kids are febrile. 2 years ago I would go to work with a cold, even with GI symptoms especially in residency. We all did. I sent my kids to school with mild URI symptoms. We all did. I did elective cases on kids with mild uri symptoms. We all did!
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You can shout about this as much as you want but it won’t change the ‘Murica’ people. It just won’t.
It’s not a dichotomous decision. Stop isolating mild illness. There has always been an infectious disease risk as part of life, with the vaccine, it renders Covid just another one of those risks to add. society didn’t go out of its way to protect at risk folks from influenza or other diseases in the past, they aren’t going to now. It’s up to those individuals at high risk to minimize that risk as much as possible for themselves. They can mask, wash hands, get vaccinated, etc. but there will always, ALWAYS, be risk to living life. This is just added to it now.
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That is a meaningless statistic because it is actively happening right now. And like everything in life death is not the only thing that matter. For example how many people end up disabled for months if not permanently? How many survive on a weakened state just to die of something else? How many are going to die or be harmed from the substandard or delayed care being delivered across the nation due to healthcare overburdening just so we can all go back to normal? What happens if a new variant comes along that get immune people sick all over again just have to do this again because booster shots are not normal but a healthcare system in shambles is?HumCo Records Three More COVID Deaths, Including First of Fully Vaccinated Person
Three more Humboldt County residents have died of COVID-19, including one in their 20s and the county's first fatality in a "breakthrough" case in a...
The death rate in vaccinated people according to the CDC is .0011%. What’s the death rate in an average flu season in vaccinated patients?
It’s clear the public health vaccine push simply isn’t working on a large proportion of the population. Slowly businesses are requiring the vaccine but this will continue to be slow. You know what has worked and worked fast? Actual infection. Vaccination rates skyrocketed in MS/Alabama after things went nuts. Unfortunately that’s the reality we live in. It sucks, the attrition of nurses sucks, the stress sucks. Once the wave passes and a combined number of natural immunity with vaccine immunity climbs to a threshold, the risk of flooding health care facilities will also pass.
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Fair points, what are those numbers? And are they worth forced transformation of society and all the angst that goes along with that to reduce them. Also, the stat I quoted wasn’t vaccinated death rate, it was a poor stat I found very quickly via google and I apologize for that, a better one would be: in all infected vaccinated patients, what’s the current death rate, not sure that exists and don’t have the time to search now.
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Mild illness can still be infectious hence the need to isolate. If COVID was simply like Influenza epidemiologically, we wouldn't have the same fatality rate and reproductive number as we are dealing right now. Honestly, humanity will just need to learn to live and adapt with COVID. The problem is some people fail to recognize its inherent virulence and refuse to exercise the minimal protective measures against it as if everyone has the immuncompetence to withstand the infection or can afford a lengthy stay at the ICU. There is always the risk, but people need to participate and lower it as much as they can collaboratively so that society can prosper and move forward with the most favorable outcome. Sadly, this isn't the case because personal freedom matters more than concerns of public health, so I guess now it's a game of survival of the fittest or the wisest.
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What has been done in the past doesn't guarantee what we will do in the future. This is the problem so many people are facing. A novel virus. A killer for some. Highly contagious. Filling up hospitals, keeping kids out of school, keeping people from work, etc. It doesn't have to be this way, but it may in fact force us to do things differently moving forward to function as we have in the past as a society. This is the reality we are facing and the inability to adapt shown by so many, particularly so many Americans, is frustrating and frankly sad.
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What is the way out then? What’s your end game approach? How do we move on and live with this thing? Which mitigation strategies are here to stay and which ones will go away? Do we always and forever have to quarantine when testing positive? Or will there be a time when testing positive is no different than any other URI? How efficacious does the vaccine or treatments have to be to start to reduce these things, and 100% can’t be the answer.
I really do appreciate what you’re saying and enjoy this discussion.
Keep in mind that the reason people aren’t going to work or school is because of human decisions. We choose to be open or closed or isolated or quarantined, protect vulnerable or toss them to the side. Or we choose some hybrid version of this based on the risk not only of the disease, but the risk to society. All I’m saying is the risk to societal uprising may also be very high with what many are trying to impose in order to protect the relative few who can easily protect themselves very strongly with a vaccine, self masking and hygiene. Society is in an uglier place than we realize right now and that is just as important to redirect if there’s any true hope of getting control of the virus.
It’s what anesthesiologists do everyday, balance risk. My view is that these 2 risks are actually much closer than most of us realize and now that we have widespread vaccine, which is still highly protective against delta, we need to be approaching COVID 19 very differently from the traditional public health approach.
The states with overwhelmed hospitals need to temporarily be a little more draconian. Overwhelmed hospitals is where the rubber meets the road between these two risks, but once that is relieved, they need to relax restrictions and let things play out a little because we as a society have developed the best prevention of severe disease in the vaccine. High risk people can do what we all now know is possible with protection and let everyone else choose their own risk tolerance.
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The answer to this is already known--we get vaccinated, we get boosters as variants arise, we wear masks indoors in public areas, depending on local situations we might need to work from home to slow things down with little warning. It is super ****ing simple but our critical mass of complete ****ing stupid can't tolerate these 'draconian' measures for some reason so instead we get to have a dumpster fire chaotic response and traumas, cancers, MIs are getting either no or crappy care and suffering as a result of these decisions.
Maybe years down the road we wont need boosters as often or enough people will have pulled their heads out of their gaping perfumed dinguses and gotten vaccinated to curb spread enough to where masks can be relaxed too but we have already seen how harmful relaxing the masks early was because now it is some kind of Constitutional right to run around and cough on whoever you want and people have decided to make this a core component of their identity. Americans are apparently too thick to comprehend nuance so relaxing mask measures (or apparently any measures) can't be done because then it is part of some conspiracy instead of an organized public health response.
Also you should never go to work in healthcare when you have the flu (if you did shame on you). Nothing you do is so important that you should be exposing people to potentially deadly viruses and there are backup call systems exactly for this reason, use them! Just ignoring symptoms and pretending like nothing is wrong like a cold is the worst thing you could do with this disease.
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I used to think kids fare a little better with covid as well until I saw the kids on ECMO in the PICU from MIS-C from COVID. It’s certainly not ‘a cold’ for them…
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It is not. It's been pretty clearly shown by now that the vaccinated are much less likely to cause spread. This has been addressed at length in other threads, w/ links to several different studies provided. Do you think it's a coincidence that an area w/ a relatively high vaccination rate like SF bay area has not only avoided being hit hard, but has completely suppressed their curve?
This teacher was unvaccinated, was very clearly symptomatic for many days, and did not comply w/ masking and all the while continued to work and attend school events for multiple days. I mean, are you kidding me. This teacher should be fired, at the very least.
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deleted87051
Yes. Only 2/24 staff members at that school were unvaccinated. The index patient was one of the 2. On top of that, this person decided to read to their class unmasked despite feeling ill and concerned enough about having COVID to get tested. Wtf
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Regarding what strategies we accept moving forward I'd start with:
1. People shouldn't go to work or school when they're sick.
2. America needs to get vaccinated. Like, more than half of us. A lot more.
3. Basic public health measures like masking/distancing/vaccination aren't far left liberal conspiracies (a few of us here have commented on not being sick since we started masking and stopped shaking hands. This is a good thing). And governors of red states shouldn't gain favor or boost their presidential profile by flaunting basic public health measures.
There are lots of things. But we'd gain a lot of ground on this by doing those 3 things.
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Honestly the politicians who have made this public health disaster into a political game should go to prison, and be made open to lawsuits. It's ****ing insane.
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The teachers aren't kids. Plenty of teachers are older and high risk for any number of reasons. There are only so many substitute teachers and so much risk teachers are willing to put up with before they say no.
Also, so you are just okay with all the kids with previous transplants or cancer out autoimmune diseases or obesity dying? While most kids are low risk that isn't no risk, I have put too many kids on ECMO to not worry about my own kids. In addition, many of the districts are not offering virtual learning so many parents of kids with risk factors feel like they have no good options.
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Part of the problem is this
“TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Florida's Board of Education decided Friday to provide private school vouchers to parents who say a public school district's mask-wearing requirements amount to harassment of their children.”
You have politicians out there spending tax payers money for their own political gains.
We should start promote vaccinations for illegal aliens. If one dummy who refused to get vaccinated dies, we will replace their “citizenship” to one vaccinated illegals. That’ll get them riled up. You died for your “freedom” we replace you with someone who wants to be “real” Americans. (JK but not really).
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The patriotic thing is to get vaccinated, to protect your fellow citizens and make the country stronger. I don't know how this message never got through to these republican dinguses, who decided to hang their hat on this antivaxx rhetoric
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I’ve thought about it recently. Is it due to Americans’ emphasis on individualism? “My” rights is more than yours/groups rights?
One of my friend who is reasonable on this issue, pointed out apparently Japan also has low vaccination rate.
It’s probably “multifactorial”, if much smarter people can’t get an unified message out and all these kids in ICU cannot move people. I don’t know what can.
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But, if you have a populace who is willing to wear a mask and self-quarantine at the slightest hint of being sick, you don’t need a vaccine to help control the spread, the populace is already doing that for themselves.
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Yes, the choices and reasons are different. In America, the same idiots who are against vaccination are also against wearing masks and social distancing and taking basic precautions.
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deleted87051
And it’s like the suicidal idiots want to take as many people as possible with them.
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Call it compassion fatigue, but I don't care that this antivaxx idiot died from covid. I feel sorry for all the other people he infected.
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I believe depuy is doing just this. Heard a rep saying something about it while in a room the other day. Need more companies just saying F it and going the nuclear option. It's the only way these *****s listen.
