Back-up schools with a chip on their shoulder

[junqu]

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Anyone have any stories about backup schools knowing this and having a "complex" about highly qualified applicants probably using their school as a backup?

 

[Julius Erving]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

 

[Robizzle]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

Well put, and agreed.

If you show a true interest in the school during an interview and in their secondary, I doubt what the OP says happens.

 

[maestro1625]

there's all the above points, then there's Michigan State 😉

 

[myleghurts]

there's all the above points, then there's Michigan State 😉

haha.... they didn't even give me a secondary yet (although it comes with the interview) and I already have 3 acceptances all to better schools. I guess they really want me to stay and Michigan and practice rural medicine...

 

[junqu]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

regardless of interview behavior...this is an attitude i actually heard from from a high level PI MD and a senior resident...not some uninformed pre-med. The idea behind this thread is to get examples of peoples experiences.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

Amen, brother!

 

[junqu]

Danjo maybe you ought to read what Julius says about your highly regarded northwestern in his mdapplicants profile.

 

[enigma85]

Well, for some applicants, I'm sure it's tough to feign interest at your interview at Tufts if you've already interviewed at Harvard, example.

If you're a school with a median GPA/MCAT of 3.6/30 and you have an applicant with a 3.9/39, then you are probably a bit reluctant to waste your time interviewing this applicant unless he/she shows a lot of interest.

See http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3681
Rejected post-secondary from UCSD, Harvard, Stanford, Cornell, and....... Gtown?? But was accepted at Hopkins, Columbia, and Penn! Gtown probably realized they are a safety school for this applicant and so just took his/her secondary fee and then sent a rejection letter.

Example 2: http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=4727
Rejected post-secondary at USC and Boston with a 3.85/36 from Stanford yet accepted at Baylor, Michigan, and Columbia.

There are plenty more examples like the ones I'm giving. I doubt there is anything wrong with these applicants' "personality" or that they had any "deficiencies" if they received multiple acceptances from top 10 institutions.

 

[maestro1625]

haha.... they didn't even give me a secondary yet (although it comes with the interview) and I already have 3 acceptances all to better schools. I guess they really want me to stay and Michigan and practice rural medicine...

yeah, attitude problems are definately present... I picked up that vibe a lot from my fellow interviewees at Wayne, but it's hard to have the attitude problem described when the school doesnt even send you a secondary.

...not to mention, out of 12 schools I applied to, the only two who refuse to tell me what the hell is going on with my app are Michigan and MSU.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

what you're talking about happens, but it is pretty different from the op's comment. so let's get back to the original point of the thread.

there is sdn evidence of ui-c having a chip on its shoulder. people have posted here and on interview feedback about how the school doesn't try hard to sell itself on interview day, and that some interviewers even ask (or tell!) the applicant whether they would *really* end up going to ui-c.

i've personally felt tinges of a "chip" at great schools where the interviewer will mention prior applicants turninig them down for other places (usually the school is in a poor location or isn't a usnews top 20, so i think the attitude is that the school isn't getting the recognition it deserves).

 

[Robizzle]

Danjo maybe you ought to read what Julius says about your highly regarded northwestern in his mdapplicants profile.

lol, what are you trying to do, make him choose sides? 👎 .

 

[myleghurts]

yeah, attitude problems are definately present... I picked up that vibe a lot from my fellow interviewees at Wayne, but it's hard to have the attitude problem described when the school doesnt even send you a secondary.

...not to mention, out of 12 schools I applied to, the only two who refuse to tell me what the hell is going on with my app are Michigan and MSU.

Same boat as you... Wayne loved me... UMich and MSU don't. The only people I know of that were already accepted at MSU all had below average GPA and MCAT. I really don't know what they're looking for in their applicants.

 

[junqu]

what you're talking about happens, but it is pretty different from the op's comment. so let's get back to the original point of the thread.

there is sdn evidence of ui-c having a chip on its shoulder. people have posted here and on interview feedback about how the school doesn't try hard to sell itself on interview day, and that some interviewers even ask (or tell!) the applicant whether they would *really* end up going to ui-c.

i've personally felt tinges of a "chip" at great schools where the interviewer will mention prior applicants turninig them down for other places (usually the school is in a poor location or isn't a usnews top 20, so i think the attitude is that the school isn't getting the recognition it deserves).

This is a more accurate response. Whether or not the "chip" idea exists isn't in question. Like I said, I heard about this from a high level MD from hopkins/duke/stanford background.

Schools would be stupid not to consider how likely it is an applicant will "accept the school's acceptance," and there is no doubt that this analysis occurs. The fact that some applicants are able to BS the attitude of "this is the only school for me" at every school they go to shows nothing more than the presence in this proccess of abuse by a few manipulative applicants.

The point of this thread it to get examples from peoples' experiences.

 

[junqu]

lol, what are you trying to do, make him choose sides? 👎 .

No not at all. I'm just saying be careful who you endorse in making broad blanket statements that do not address the concerns of the thread. Maybe Danjo would have read the initial response differently had he known the poster's response to his Northwestern decision.

 

[etf]

so some schools don't want the best of the best, and don't care about the worst. the mid-range people are worried that they don't have anything that makes them stand out like the other two groups. pretty ridiculous.

 

[Jacks Mannequin]

so some schools don't want the best of the best, and don't care about the worst. the mid-range people are worried that they don't have anything that makes them stand out like the other two groups. pretty ridiculous.

Haha, welcome to SDN!

 

[DrZeke]

I think what the OP said does happen, but I am talking about pre-interview. Lots of people get flat out rejected from GWU and don't even make it to their hold pile even when they show interest in the school, just because they have a 39/4.0 combination or something above average...

 

[SeventhSon]

to the OP:

some schools DEFINITELY do reject overqualified applicants. However, this would only happen pre-interview. They don't waste their time on people they know won't come there.

 

[Julius Erving]

Danjo maybe you ought to read what Julius says about your highly regarded northwestern in his mdapplicants profile.

I don't like the school. What is your point? I even stated that I slacked on the secondary and should have worked harder to amp up my ECs if Northwestern was a priority for me. I'm not saying that Northwestern had a chip on their shoulder b/c I was too qualified. Northwestern is a top-ranked school that was a bad fit for my needs. Any rejection is an "ego-check", I said something similar about Mayo and we all know the odds of getting in there...

 

[Julius Erving]

what you're talking about happens, but it is pretty different from the op's comment. so let's get back to the original point of the thread.

there is sdn evidence of ui-c having a chip on its shoulder. people have posted here and on interview feedback about how the school doesn't try hard to sell itself on interview day, and that some interviewers even ask (or tell!) the applicant whether they would *really* end up going to ui-c.

i've personally felt tinges of a "chip" at great schools where the interviewer will mention prior applicants turninig them down for other places (usually the school is in a poor location or isn't a usnews top 20, so i think the attitude is that the school isn't getting the recognition it deserves).

I think this is a standard question on interviews tho. Most don't ask as candidly as Illinois, but that could just be the interviewers' style. The whole "be confrontational" method is actually a lot better than being passive in determining whether an applicant is truly interested IMHO. An applicant who is "caught" will be a bit offended and angry. An applicant who is considering Illinois a top choice will have a passionate, and less indignant, response. I doubt if this question is answered acceptably that a qualified candidate would be denied...

That being said, I agree with you. SOME schools might have a chip, or some ulterior motives. But I think a large portion of these rejections by a back-up have more to do with the applicant than the ADCOM.

 

[cgscribe]

I agree some schools might have a chip. But, I think most genuinely just want to know if you are interested in their school, and it's usually justified interest. For example, when I interviewed on the East Coast, schools asked me if I really was prepared/wanted to leave CA. I think schools are just protecting themselves from wasting effort evaluating you further if they're a safety.

Dr. J: you destroyed NU, it made me sad. I loved the school.

 

[Julius Erving]

Dr. J: you destroyed NU, it made me sad. I loved the school.

Yeah, that's really a personal preference opinion. I learn thru integration; patient interaction; problem-based learning. I'm also not from a big city, or interested in research in the slightest. So for me, it was not a good option.

Different strokes for different folks... I really didn't mean it as a statement, just venting after a rejection. Still not sure why the OP felt this was relevant tho...

 

[cgscribe]

Hahaha, yeah, it wasn't relevant at all. Though I thought NU is a mix of lecture and pbl.

 

[junqu]

I interviewed at northwestern and found the students seemed normal. The neighborhood was nice. The education seemed interesting with the organ-based approach.

DR. J: It's cool with me if you don't like the school personally but I just don't understand why you used the language: "the education is piss-poor" when you and I both know that the educations at all the allopathic schools in the US are excellent.

 

[Julius Erving]

I interviewed at northwestern and found the students seemed normal. The neighborhood was nice. The education seemed interesting with the organ-based approach.

DR. J: It's cool with me if you don't like the school personally but I just don't understand why you used the language: "the education is piss-poor" when you and I both know that the educations at all the allopathic schools in the US are excellent.

... i guess "the education style is piss-poor" is what a really meant. For having such a great applicant pool with high gpa/mcat scores, their USMLE Step 1 scores are pretty low, aren't they?? That is what I heard anyways.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

... i guess "the education style is piss-poor" is what a really meant. For having such a great applicant pool with high gpa/mcat scores, their USMLE Step 1 scores are pretty low, aren't they?? That is what I heard anyways.

maybe it's due to the substantial portion of the class (about 1/3?) who are in the guaranteed acceptance program from nwu undergrad?

 

[tinker_rebel]

yeah, attitude problems are definately present... I picked up that vibe a lot from my fellow interviewees at Wayne, but it's hard to have the attitude problem described when the school doesnt even send you a secondary.

...not to mention, out of 12 schools I applied to, the only two who refuse to tell me what the hell is going on with my app are Michigan and MSU.

Yea, tell me about it. You know, we are in a state with 3 med schools, but 2 of them are difficult to get love from (Michigan is insane to get into, and MSU, well I don't know the deal with MSU.) What really amuses me is that during the OSU/UM game my family was all cheering for UM and I was like "well whoever gives me an interview, I'll like them." I got an interview invite from OSU that monday at 8 am, lol.

 

[maestro1625]

Yea, tell me about it. You know, we are in a state with 3 med schools, but 2 of them are difficult to get love from (Michigan is insane to get into, and MSU, well I don't know the deal with MSU.) What really amuses me is that during the OSU/UM game my family was all cheering for UM and I was like "well whoever gives me an interview, I'll like them." I got an interview invite from OSU that monday at 8 am, lol.

I've been firmly on OSU's bandwagon since getting an interview there the week before the game (hence the avatar).

strangely enough it's probably my first choice school now out of all my interviews... I really hope I'm not in for a letdown.

 

[kevster2001]

... i guess "the education style is piss-poor" is what a really meant. For having such a great applicant pool with high gpa/mcat scores, their USMLE Step 1 scores are pretty low, aren't they?? That is what I heard anyways.

After reading what you said about NW, and having went to the interview, you couldn't be more wrong about Northwestern. First of all, their Step 1 scores are consistently above the national average. Second they make sure they limit lecture to 2 hours a day. All other classes during the day are classes like PBL, ethics, anatomy where you work in small groups. They FOCUS on making sure kids are not stuck in lecture all day. They also stress PBL and small group learning environment that you actually said you liked. Lastly, every med student I've talked to there are incredibly down to earth and openly admit the cost of living there is really bad. Didn't meet any spoiled rich kids that you say permeate the campus

 

[riceman04]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

 

[Julius Erving]

They are a top 20 school. To have USMLE scores just a little above average is not a testament to their teaching techniques. They get some of the brightest pre-meds.. they should be well above the average, not just 2 points above it. And from what i've heard from enrolled students is there is a lot of lecture time. maybe they revamped their style and are more interactive this coming year. even so, it'll be a transition from the traditional style, and I still don't want a part of it. (a moo point considering i didn't even get an interview)

 

[cgscribe]

Dr. J drinks hater-ade.

 

[kevster2001]

They are a top 20 school. To have USMLE scores just a little above average is not a testament to their teaching techniques. They get some of the brightest pre-meds.. they should be well above the average, not just 2 points above it. And from what i've heard from enrolled students is there is a lot of lecture time. maybe they revamped their style and are more interactive this coming year. even so, it'll be a transition from the traditional style, and I still don't want a part of it. (a moo point considering i didn't even get an interview)

I'm pretty sure NW has been PBL for quite awhile now. And the 2 hours of lecture a day max policy has also been implemented for awhile. ANd i think their average score is .. 10 or 13 points above the national average. SOmething like that.

Theres no way to avoid lecture during the first and second years since theres so much material but NW does a good job of keeping it to a minimum in comparison to some other schools. I also forgot to mentio nthat because they go organ by organ, the stuff you learn in lecture, you get to see directly in anatomy lab and other courses. Seem pretty integrated to me

 

[Pinkertinkle]

It's a myth perpetuated by pre-med students that go into interviews with a sense of entitlement. Some schools WILL turn down a 40/4.0 if their personality and/or attitude is poor, even if they aren't a top 10 school. The thing is, most of these people are so clueless to their own deficiencies that they think the only explaination is the "back-up theory". It just stings too much for them to accept that a school they considered as a back-up would reject them for any other reason.

Many schools know they're not going to get the high scorers with publications and other awesome EC's so they don't bother interviewing them. Are you saying this kind of screening doesn't occur?

 

[nighthawk3]

I would be very surprised if schools did not do this. I have solid stats and ECs but nothing outrageously good like a 4.0/40. I have been rejected by four places, two of which give no state preference, where the incoming class has average stats well below mine. However, I've also gotten four interviews and all of those schools' average stats are either comparable or slightly higher than mine. It's definitely something schools do or else I have just had weird results.

 

[45408]

Anyone have any stories about backup schools knowing this and having a "complex" about highly qualified applicants probably using their school as a backup?

why do you think a lot of DO schools have a non-refundable $1000 deposit due within 2 weeks of an acceptance offer? One of my friends lost out on a grand that way.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Yeah, that's really a personal preference opinion. I learn thru integration; patient interaction; problem-based learning. I'm also not from a big city, or interested in research in the slightest. So for me, it was not a good option.

Wow! Dr. J, I know you were venting after a rejection from NU, but did you seriously look into their curriculum before commenting on the "piss-poor education style?" You are way off base here. You learn thru integration, patient interaction, and PBL? Sounds exactly like NU's style. Don't take my word for it - spend about five minutes on their website.

 

[ADeadLois]

They are a top 20 school. To have USMLE scores just a little above average is not a testament to their teaching techniques. They get some of the brightest pre-meds.. they should be well above the average, not just 2 points above it. And from what i've heard from enrolled students is there is a lot of lecture time. maybe they revamped their style and are more interactive this coming year. even so, it'll be a transition from the traditional style, and I still don't want a part of it. (a moo point considering i didn't even get an interview)

As others have pointed out, your info on Northwestern is quite inaccurate. They are a big PBL school.

 

[junqu]

why do you think a lot of DO schools have a non-refundable $1000 deposit due within 2 weeks of an acceptance offer? One of my friends lost out on a grand that way.

that would be my worst nightmare especially when you consider that you could do a couple more interviews with 1000

 

[alwaysaangel]

I think its funny how many people REALLY convince themselves that "my numbers are just too good for that school."

Every allopathic medical school in the U.S. is a good school. Some are ranked top 20 meaning they accept people with high MCAT and get a lot of research money. How that makes them a good school is beyond me.

Some school don't look for high numbers as much as they do other qualities. Including "does this individual want to go to this school?" And it could happen both post-interview and pre-interview.

Pre-interview people keep using GWU and Georgetown as examples, and both require an essay about why you want to go there. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they have probably just gotten pretty damn good at telling the difference between a bull**** "you're my back-up" answer and an honest "I want to go to your school answer." It wouldn't be that difficult to tell the difference between the two - I can't believe so many people here think their bull is THAT good and that med school adcomms are THAT blind. So if someone wants to bring up some examples of schools that don't ask for a "why do you want to go here" essay and still reject high numbers pre-interview, please do. Until then - they see through the bull. Its not because you're 'too good for them.'

Post-interview could be ANY school. If you come in with an attitude of "Of course you'll take me, my MCAT scores are 10 pts above your average and my GPA is vastly superior." They're going to notice. For people who get some top acceptances post-int and some bottom rejections - thats the difference. I wouldn't call it a massive personality deficiency so much as an arrogance on interview day. They noticed it - they also saw that you didn't have a very good answer to "why here?" and weren't very excited when you answered. REJECT! Someone with above average numbers who avoids the arrogance and feigns excitement (or is honestly excited) will most likely NOT be rejected.

I mean geez guys - we've only been around pre-meds for four years and we have gotten pretty damn good at reading each other. Many of these adcomm members have been doing it for decades. You don't think they can read you???? That right there is the arrogance that got you rejected..."I'm so good they won't know I think their school sucks and don't want to go there."

As far as the OP and his "PI MD" and senior resident. Unless they are on the adcomm on one of these 'lesser' schools - the fact that they think it happens is about as worthwhile as one of the pre-meds on here thinking it happens. Its the same rumor perpetuated - its probably been around for years - at least since the resident was applying and probably since the MD was applying. I have no clue why you would be shocked that someone other than a pre-med would have heard this rumor or that someone who used to be a pre-med would still remember it.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

I think its funny how many people REALLY convince themselves that "my numbers are just too good for that school."

Every allopathic medical school in the U.S. is a good school. Some are ranked top 20 meaning they accept people with high MCAT and get a lot of research money. How that makes them a good school is beyond me.

Some school don't look for high numbers as much as they do other qualities. Including "does this individual want to go to this school?" And it could happen both post-interview and pre-interview.

Pre-interview people keep using GWU and Georgetown as examples, and both require an essay about why you want to go there. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they have probably just gotten pretty damn good at telling the difference between a bull**** "you're my back-up" answer and an honest "I want to go to your school answer." It wouldn't be that difficult to tell the difference between the two - I can't believe so many people here think their bull is THAT good and that med school adcomms are THAT blind. So if someone wants to bring up some examples of schools that don't ask for a "why do you want to go here" essay and still reject high numbers pre-interview, please do. Until then - they see through the bull. Its not because you're 'too good for them.'

Post-interview could be ANY school. If you come in with an attitude of "Of course you'll take me, my MCAT scores are 10 pts above your average and my GPA is vastly superior." They're going to notice. For people who get some top acceptances post-int and some bottom rejections - thats the difference. I wouldn't call it a massive personality deficiency so much as an arrogance on interview day. They noticed it - they also saw that you didn't have a very good answer to "why here?" and weren't very excited when you answered. REJECT! Someone with above average numbers who avoids the arrogance and feigns excitement (or is honestly excited) will most likely NOT be rejected.

I mean geez guys - we've only been around pre-meds for four years and we have gotten pretty damn good at reading each other. Many of these adcomm members have been doing it for decades. You don't think they can read you???? That right there is the arrogance that got you rejected..."I'm so good they won't know I think their school sucks and don't want to go there."

As far as the OP and his "PI MD" and senior resident. Unless they are on the adcomm on one of these 'lesser' schools - the fact that they think it happens is about as worthwhile as one of the pre-meds on here thinking it happens. Its the same rumor perpetuated - its probably been around for years - at least since the resident was applying and probably since the MD was applying. I have no clue why you would be shocked that someone other than a pre-med would have heard this rumor or that someone who used to be a pre-med would still remember it.

Nice post! 👍

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

I think its funny how many people REALLY convince themselves that "my numbers are just too good for that school."

Every allopathic medical school in the U.S. is a good school. Some are ranked top 20 meaning they accept people with high MCAT and get a lot of research money. How that makes them a good school is beyond me.

Some school don't look for high numbers as much as they do other qualities. Including "does this individual want to go to this school?" And it could happen both post-interview and pre-interview.

Pre-interview people keep using GWU and Georgetown as examples, and both require an essay about why you want to go there. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they have probably just gotten pretty damn good at telling the difference between a bull**** "you're my back-up" answer and an honest "I want to go to your school answer." It wouldn't be that difficult to tell the difference between the two - I can't believe so many people here think their bull is THAT good and that med school adcomms are THAT blind. So if someone wants to bring up some examples of schools that don't ask for a "why do you want to go here" essay and still reject high numbers pre-interview, please do. Until then - they see through the bull. Its not because you're 'too good for them.'

Post-interview could be ANY school. If you come in with an attitude of "Of course you'll take me, my MCAT scores are 10 pts above your average and my GPA is vastly superior." They're going to notice. For people who get some top acceptances post-int and some bottom rejections - thats the difference. I wouldn't call it a massive personality deficiency so much as an arrogance on interview day. They noticed it - they also saw that you didn't have a very good answer to "why here?" and weren't very excited when you answered. REJECT! Someone with above average numbers who avoids the arrogance and feigns excitement (or is honestly excited) will most likely NOT be rejected.

I mean geez guys - we've only been around pre-meds for four years and we have gotten pretty damn good at reading each other. Many of these adcomm members have been doing it for decades. You don't think they can read you???? That right there is the arrogance that got you rejected..."I'm so good they won't know I think their school sucks and don't want to go there."

As far as the OP and his "PI MD" and senior resident. Unless they are on the adcomm on one of these 'lesser' schools - the fact that they think it happens is about as worthwhile as one of the pre-meds on here thinking it happens. Its the same rumor perpetuated - its probably been around for years - at least since the resident was applying and probably since the MD was applying. I have no clue why you would be shocked that someone other than a pre-med would have heard this rumor or that someone who used to be a pre-med would still remember it.

 

[boo-yeh]

Very nicely put alwaysangel.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they have probably just gotten pretty damn good at telling the difference between a bull**** "you're my back-up" answer and an honest "I want to go to your school answer." It wouldn't be that difficult to tell the difference between the two - I can't believe so many people here think their bull is THAT good and that med school adcomms are THAT blind. So if someone wants to bring up some examples of schools that don't ask for a "why do you want to go here" essay and still reject high numbers pre-interview, please do. Until then - they see through the bull. Its not because you're 'too good for them.'

be careful not to fall off the limb. almost all applicants have limited information about a particular school and a limited ability to judge whether they will actually like the school without interviewing there. so i don't think the applicant dichotomy is as simple and extreme as sincerely interested versus back-up bull****ter. those who are more interested in a school still have a limited basis on which to express (and i would say, actually have) an interest in that school, making it something more like an uninformed, tentatively sincere interest. And if their interest in a school is really rooted in location or family/friend networks, then their stronger "interest in the school" is downright insincere (some nyc schools seem to resent this narrow, location-based interest, as reported on sdn). on the other hand, the person viewing a school as a backup may be open to being suprised that they really like the school upon interviewing (these stories are on sdn), or they will have a serious interest in the school for as long as they know that other school options may not work out (i.e., while completing secondaries at least).

so i think in fact both types of applicants have (1) a limited factual or experiential basis upon which to express a sincere interest in secondaries (2) enough sincere interest in a school (even if contingent on circumstance) to write a motivated secondary.

but another big difference between these two applicant types will tend to be numbers/ec's. this is basically true by definition, as the "backup type" will logically have stats very competitive for the school. do you really deny that schools don't have theories about whether accepted students with certain numbers/ec's are likely to not matriculate to their schools (thereby hurting their interviewed/accepted/matriculated stats and increasing the uncertainty of the admission process when they wait for the may 15 deadline)? especially after experiencing this correspondence year after year? applying to med school is a two-way process, and it can be a seller's as well as a buyer's market. i think there is more evidence on sdn of applicants with great stats getting rejected by schools with lower average stats, than evidence of applicants with insincere interest getting rejected by those schools (for one thing, the latter is just more subjective and hard to get evidence for).

but as far as the original point of the thread is concerned, a school doesn't necessarily have to reject many with high numbers pre-interview to qualify as having a chip. as i stated before there has been anecdotal evidence on sdn about interview experiences in which the interviewer was sceptical that the interviewee would end up at the school.

 

[berkshiredoc]

alwaysaangel. My experience with a few "lower tier" schools, though limited,is in synch with your analysis. BTW, why is it that the schools' reasonable attempts to find those who would be a good fit AND be excited to attend are equated with having a "chip"? When it's Hopkins, it's called being selective. Just because the selection criteria aren't in a particular individual's or class of individuals' favor, the process is really the same. I've read personal statements from "top" applicants who unwittingly knock themselves out of the running at particular schools because their focus is something anathema to the people doing the screening!

 

[45408]

And if their interest in a school is really rooted in location or family/friend networks, then their stronger "interest in the school" is downright insincere (some nyc schools seem to resent this narrow, location-based interest, as reported on sdn).

I think my interest in my current school's location was probably a plus - both my family and my wife's family are 15 minutes away, and I intend to do my residency here and practice here. I think schools like to see that as well. Of course, if you say, "Yeah, man, the bar scene here is AWE$OME!" it might be counter-productive.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

i think ultimately a little of everything people have considered is happening at schools.

all i know is that after hearing sdn stories about gwu and wash u in relation to rejections and numbers, i took a look at my stats and i have absolutely zero regrets that i didn't waste money getting rejected from either, despite my sincere, necessarily underinformed interest in these programs. the odds just don't seem to be in my favor, no matter what i write on the secondary.

 

[Caristra]

I think that there are some lower tier schools who do screen out applicants with high stats but this happens mostly pre-interview. This thread is legitimate enough because it can help people save money on secondary fees to the few schools who have such practices. Other lower tier schools do not do this and post-interview rejection is most likely a reflection of the applicants thinking they are too good for the school and hence interviewing badly.

I know that 5+ of my friends this year with stellar stats and ec's were never contacted post secondary by NYMC. Looking at MDapps and talking to people from other years I have heard even more of this sort of thing happening there. They seem to just cash the secondary and then never contact the applicant. It can't be because the student came off as arrogant/unintersted because there is no secondary essay for NYMC and these were all aplicants who were just never contacted after being told they were complete. The decision to psuedo-reject them by just never contacting them again was made on numbers and AMCAS primary alone.

Now I happen to think that NYMC is just as good a school as any other allopathic school and that they are depriving themselves of some really great applicants by doing this. However until this situation changes I would tell people not to waste the money if they seem to be way above the average stats.

 

[cgscribe]

I agree to a point that sometimes stellar applicants are big-headed about the whole "chip" theory. But, there is credibility to what they're saying. For example, MCW/NYMC/St.LouisU. have no essays. So, if I'm a CA applicant with a 36 MCAT and 3.9 gpa applying because I have family near each of those schools, where would I explain that on the application? I couldn't. If I'm an adcomm at those schools, would I think that applicant legitimately wants to come to my school? I wouldn't. Granted, if I REALLY was interested in the school, I would probably send in additional materials to alert them of my situation. But, on paper, I doubt that applicant would be granted. It's easy to dismiss people's stories as anectdotal, but at some point, maybe we should acknowledge that there is some truth to it. I don't think it's "lower-tier" schools having a chip, I think it's just them committing resources to applicants who they feel will actually come to their school.