Bad day at the recruiting office for HSCP! Please give advice!

[maseface]

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I literally was signing papers TODAY at the Navy recruiting depot when I was told a piece of contradictory info that led me to WALK OUT of the office. I will come back to this later....

I already served five years in the Navy and have been considering Navy med for quite some time. I have done a lot of research which suggests that time spent under HSCP while in medical school will count toward ACTIVE DUTY (ie...5 yrs active duty plus 4 yrs HSCP equals 9 years active duty time and I would owe 11 yrs before retirement for the 20 yr mark. I was told by my recruiter months ago that this is how it would indeed play out). Well, today I am signing papers and (just to make absolutely sure) I ask them about this. They say, "Oh no, the way it works is when you hit your 20 year mark, the time spent under HSCP will go into effect and you will be eligible to retire having served 24 years, effectively." Therefore, my commitment would be 15 years before retiring and going into civilian medicine. So I got up and left right then and there but before leaving I asked my recruiters if they were ABSOLUTELY SURE that this is the way it would play out. So they called the powers that be and were told that they were absolutely wrong and I would have to serve only 11 years. At this point, I'm shaking because of the confusion but I hung around while they looked for some sort of official instruction to clear the whole thing up. Well, they never found it and so I left and told them to call me when they find it.

So what word have you all gotten? Does it count or what? Sorry to be long winded but I just wanted to make everyone aware of this experience and careful as they progress forward with apps.

 

[jabreal00]

If you are not active duty during medical school it will not count towards your 20. It will only be credited to you once you hit 20. So at 20 they'll credit you the 4 years. I am fairly certain of this. The same applies to those who went to USUSH (the military medical school). That 4 years is credited to them once they hit 20 years. Hope this helps.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

edit: was sure about HPSP, not sure about HSCP.

 

[J-Rad]

I think you are confusing HPSP with HSCP ( the program the OP was applying for). In the latter program the member is, indeed, on active duty with all benefits included. They should be getting retirement credit. The 4yrs added to 20 years toward retirement is true for HPSP ( under nebulous criteria). It sounds like the recruiters ( who probably recruit for HPSP more often) confused the two as well.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk

 

[maseface]

I'm not signing until I see it in writing. Period. My recruiters are saying that made a mistake and that the time does count but they cannot find any instruction which confirms this. That four year difference is a deal breaker for me. I was told one thing for the entire app process and today it seems to have changed.

 

[maseface]

So I guess my next question is why is it so hard to find an official answer in some direction. I would think that a recruiting office would be able to find it pretty easily but they had no luck and they looked for half a day.

 

[NightGod]

So I guess my next question is why is it so hard to find an official answer in some direction. I would think that a recruiting office would be able to find it pretty easily but they had no luck and they looked for half a day.

Because the typical recruiting office only barely deals with medical enlistment. Somewhere around here you should be able to find info to get a hold of actual medical recruiters. All that said, from everything I've been able to find and what I've read on these forums, J-Rad has it exactly right. You're doing HCSP, during which your years count on the front end towards retirement (ie-you'll need another 11). The recruiters got confused with HPSP, in which case it counts on the back end (ie-you'd need 15, at which point you'd be credited with a total of 24).

 

[maseface]

Because the typical recruiting office only barely deals with medical enlistment. Somewhere around here you should be able to find info to get a hold of actual medical recruiters. All that said, from everything I've been able to find and what I've read on these forums, J-Rad has it exactly right. You're doing HCSP, during which your years count on the front end towards retirement (ie-you'll need another 11). The recruiters got confused with HPSP, in which case it counts on the back end (ie-you'd need 15, at which point you'd be credited with a total of 24).

Thanks for the input. This is exactly what I thought so you could imagine my surprise when I was told otherwise. I actually am dealing with real medical recruiters so it's weird they don't have a solid answer at this point. I think some of the recruiters here have it confused with HPSP, like you said.

 

[Perrotfish]

So I guess my next question is why is it so hard to find an official answer in some direction. I would think that a recruiting office would be able to find it pretty easily but they had no luck and they looked for half a day.

HPCP is one of the smallest officer recruitment programs in the military. Of my entire Intern class I only know one person who came in through this program: everyone else came in through HPSP or USUHS. It's really not that surprising that they don't have a lot of answers for you, they've probably never dealt with the program before, and therefore confuse it with the relatively common HPSP.

I think you have the right approach, getting it in writing.

 

[maseface]

Ya I think you are right on the money with that. The fact that it's rare could mean recruiters are less knowledgeable about it. Hopefully they find an answer for me really soon because I'm eligible for enlistment now. Every day that passes is money and time down the drain as far as I'm concerned. I may just try and do some leg work on my own finding an instruction out there....if it even exists

 

[ruiner]

It really is a confusion thing I think. We have a HSCP guy in our class and hes prior as well and did HSCP over HPSP for the exact reason you were looking at it. Half the people I talk to in mil have no idea what HPSP is, including the medical recruiter.

 

[NavyFP]

Ya I think you are right on the money with that. The fact that it's rare could mean recruiters are less knowledgeable about it. Hopefully they find an answer for me really soon because I'm eligible for enlistment now. Every day that passes is money and time down the drain as far as I'm concerned. I may just try and do some leg work on my own finding an instruction out there....if it even exists

I will agree with the above in that HSCP counts towards retirement (the first 20, not added to make 24).

I could not find specific language in the Program Authorization, Title 10 USC sec 531-533, or in OPNAV 1120.4B. When you are commissioned at the end of Med School, you will need to be discharged as enlisted and get a DD214. This will reflect your total active duty time.

The difference between USUHS and HSCP is that when you leave USUHS, you are recommissioned and there is specific language in the USC denying USUHS the AD time towards retirement.

 

[atheon86]

Did they ever find it in writing for you?

 

[pgg]

The difference between USUHS and HSCP is that when you leave USUHS, you are recommissioned and there is specific language in the USC denying USUHS the AD time towards retirement.

For clarity - the USUHS grads do get that time tacked on at the end. Retire at 20, with 24 years credit.

 

[Cooperd0g]

I will agree with the above in that HSCP counts towards retirement (the first 20, not added to make 24).

I could not find specific language in the Program Authorization, Title 10 USC sec 531-533, or in OPNAV 1120.4B. When you are commissioned at the end of Med School, you will need to be discharged as enlisted and get a DD214. This will reflect your total active duty time.

The difference between USUHS and HSCP is that when you leave USUHS, you are recommissioned and there is specific language in the USC denying USUHS the AD time towards retirement.

For clarity - the USUHS grads do get that time tacked on at the end. Retire at 20, with 24 years credit.

You won't find it in writing that HSCP counts towards the initial 20 years because it is "implied" by not being "discounted."

At USUHS you are on active duty, but as NavyFP pointed out there is specific language in the US Code that discounts that time towards retirement, but also as pgg pointed out, you will get those 4 years added to your retirement multiplier once you hit 20 years of active duty outside of the time at USUHS.

Meanwhile, if you are in HPSP you are in the reserves so you are not building active duty time anyway. It can be counted for points towards a reserve retirement if you leave active duty before getting 20, but stay in the reserves.

HSCP, as other have mentioned, is a very rare program. As NavyFP pointed out there is nothing specifically written about the years counting towards your retirement, but there is also nothing specifically discounting it like in the case of USUHS. Program Authorization 132 (for HSCP) specifically places you on active duty (section 6, enlistment). Therefore being placed on active duty with no stipulation that the time does not count, it must count. Before anyone gets excited, this is exactly how ALL other military training programs work - flight training, GME, military postgraduate schools and war colleges, etc - they all require a commitment after in exchange for the education, all count towards your active duty time, but they just don't switch you from enlisted to officer after the completion. HSCP is very similar to some of the seaman to admiral programs.

As others have said, HSCP is a small and rarely used program which is why recruiters are less familiar with it. Additionally, it is also quite different from the other two medical ascension programs of HPSP and USUHS which are much more well know (though many a medical recruiter are still woefully uneducated in the finer points of how they apply to prior service people when it comes to pay, ODS requirements, etc).

Personally I think HSCP is excellent for priors with the GI Bill and an in-state or Yellow Ribbon school acceptance and want the option to get out a few years earlier as the time counts and the commitment is less than USUHS. Depending on how much time you have your income will be almost what it would be at USUHS; probably higher if your time was enlisted and not officer. For prior officers, USUHS is a really good deal because you preserve nearly all of your pay, but have a few years more commitment. Personally I feel it trumps HSCP unless you have the GI Bill with in state/Yellow Ribbon acceptance and even then you have to decide which is best for you.

Also remember, that the GI Bill only covers 36 months and since med school goes almost year round, it will run out before you finish and will need to pay cash or get loans for the remainder.

I had the HSCP offer with a private school / non-Yellow Ribbon acceptance and a USUHS acceptance. I ran the numbers and it was significantly in favor of USUHS.

White Coat Investor has a short article on HSCP as well.
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/health-services-collegiate-program-military-medicine-series/