Bad eval then resident ignores requests for feedback (need help)

[MD8277]

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I have the same classic complaints as the next person (evals are subjctive yadda yadda). What makes this bad resident eval different is that the person gave basically no explanation for the poor marks, and is now ignoring my email request to meet and go over the eval and tell me how to improve. My question is: We are obligated to act in a "professional" way, but shouldn't the residents be expected to hold the same standard towards medical students?

I'm meeting with the clerkship director and I was hoping you guys could help me along. Anything I should or should not say? Is it unacceptable to mention how I think ignoring my email request for feedback is unprofessional, and how I think that meeting with the clerkship director is a disappointing substitute for constructive criticism I should be receiving from the resident him/herself?

Further info if interested:

The resident was always pretty distant to me through the two weeks I worked on their team. Sensing this I asked midway through for midpoint feedback and I got the classic "fine" and she walked away, and I ended up with an eval that is pretty much not true (in my opinion), that also contradicts what the attending wrote. I think I may have pissed this person off by answering almost every round pimping question known to mankind including super obscure stuff, even getting high-fives from the attending because of it.

 

[persia]

MD,

I'm sorry that you got a bad eval after you felt (and were told) you had done well. All I can say is 'welcome to third year.'

As you say, so much can be based on whether we please our residents - but what does that mean? should we just work hard and do our work well? should we BS with them and phony schmooze? I think in the end we can work hard and do our best to somehow avoid the political mine fields, but we may or not come out ok.

You will find techniques for working around residents and will learn to find your place. It isn't easy sometimes. As for the meeting, say as little as possible other than that you would like some feedback and want to learn from this situation, etc. Never criticise a resident/intern, no matter what they do. Do not show anger, or that you feel you 'deserve' anything - that will sink you. Be aware that speaking up can be seen as a good thing or as being a 'problem.' Keep your ears and eyes open and watch for clues in your environment that let you know which way things are going. Welcome to medicine, you'll start to figure things out soon enough.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Most places I've heard from, the attendings opinion is given much more weight than an interns (unless the intern personally caught you doing something like stealing narcs or something).

I've heard a couple times where the attending raves on the student and the intern gives him a bad evaluation. A lot of the time I think it is jealousy (and hold off on the pimping questions in the future, get a reasonable amount right but not every one) and reviewers notice that.

 

[neoncandle]

Sounds like the person may have been jealous, but when you get into the real world high fiving your boss in front of your less-than-stellar coworkers will probably have some bad results for you. I think you should mention that you asked for feedback and hadn't got a reply yet, but I would be wary of pointing fingers/blaming/etc.

 

[MadameLULU]

I'm kinda ballsy. I'd email her about feedback and cc the email to your clerkship director. 😉
In the end, if her eval contradicts your attending's eval and is out of line compared to all your other evals, I have a feeling your clerkship director will throw it out, especially after you tell him/her the story.

 

[leechy]

This has been a frustration for me as well. I've asked evaluators and course directors, post-eval, for more specifics on how I can be more x or y, and they never have any useful advice to give, and they never have examples of situations where I could have acted differently. I feel like feedback is useless unless constructive, specific advice is given on how to improve, and it so rarely is.

 

[persia]

Hey Madame,

That sounds like good advice but the problem is you want to have as few people as possible mad at you in medicine. And I mean as few as possible.

The irritating intern on internal medicine who you think is a big nobody might be best friends with your surgery intern on the next rotation. When you suddenly find that you are being crushed on surgery and your intern is looking the other way, you might regret having been so bold with the IM intern. People have friends and you should be as nice as possible with everyone because you just don't know. Believe me, this is going to happen so I would not risk it.

 

[domer621]

I think I may have pissed this person off by answering almost every round pimping question known to mankind including super obscure stuff, even getting high-fives from the attending because of it.

First of all, it sounds like you're annoying and that she's a b*tch. That combo never works out.

Second, I would forward your entire email conversation with her to your clerkship director. The director will side with you.

 

[diosa428]

I have the same classic complaints as the next person (evals are subjctive yadda yadda). What makes this bad resident eval different is that the person gave basically no explanation for the poor marks, and is now ignoring my email request to meet and go over the eval and tell me how to improve. My question is: We are obligated to act in a "professional" way, but shouldn't the residents be expected to hold the same standard towards medical students?

I'm meeting with the clerkship director and I was hoping you guys could help me along. Anything I should or should not say? Is it unacceptable to mention how I think ignoring my email request for feedback is unprofessional, and how I think that meeting with the clerkship director is a disappointing substitute for constructive criticism I should be receiving from the resident him/herself?

Further info if interested:

The resident was always pretty distant to me through the two weeks I worked on their team. Sensing this I asked midway through for midpoint feedback and I got the classic "fine" and she walked away, and I ended up with an eval that is pretty much not true (in my opinion), that also contradicts what the attending wrote. I think I may have pissed this person off by answering almost every round pimping question known to mankind including super obscure stuff, even getting high-fives from the attending because of it.

I think that it would be in your best interest to NOT criticize your resident to the course director (calling her "unprofessional" or whatever). Just state the facts - the course director isn't dumb, and can make those determinations on their own. You should also mention that you feel that your attending's eval is more reflective of your performance. Good luck.

 

[fuzzyerin]

For what it's worth, from a resident perspective...

It is VERY HARD to tell someone they are not doing well. It is VERY HARD to critque someone in a constructive way and give concrete ways to improve. I have worked hard this year (PGY3) to give my medical students better feedback, but it is still not easy to tell someone they aren't doing something right in a way that is not offensive. And regardless, whenever you get feedback that you internally disagree with, it is hard to swallow.

The same goes for critquing my interns, but that's even harder, because them working well is very valuable to me, and I don't want to hurt their feelings.

(This may or may not be the case here...but just my two cents)

 

[fakin' the funk]

The resident was always pretty distant to me through the two weeks I worked on their team. Sensing this I asked midway through for midpoint feedback and I got the classic "fine" and she walked away, and I ended up with an eval that is pretty much not true (in my opinion), that also contradicts what the attending wrote. I think I may have pissed this person off by answering almost every round pimping question known to mankind including super obscure stuff, even getting high-fives from the attending because of it.

Either this is true, and you're a whiny brainiac and your complaints are ridiculously inappropriate, or it's false, and you're a troll (of sorts).

Either way, 😴

 

[Law2Doc]

Hey Madame,

That sounds like good advice but the problem is you want to have as few people as possible mad at you in medicine. And I mean as few as possible.

The irritating intern on internal medicine who you think is a big nobody might be best friends with your surgery intern on the next rotation. When you suddenly find that you are being crushed on surgery and your intern is looking the other way, you might regret having been so bold with the IM intern. People have friends and you should be as nice as possible with everyone because you just don't know. Believe me, this is going to happen so I would not risk it.

I would tend to agree with this. One hard lesson for folks to learn is that you can't really argue someone's subjective opinion or change their mind, and in almost every case you are better off just letting it go, and trying to hit it off better with the next set of residents. Sux, but that is the nature of working with difficult people. Some will like you and some simply won't. And pushing the issue with them won't help you, but can give you a rep.

 

[efex101]

This is why you NEVER should come off as a gunner during rounds...answering EVERY freaking question and not letting anyone else chime in is plain wrong and highly annoying...do not do this in the future.