Bad grades in first year

[Scarletblack]

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I'm not so sure if this story has been heard, but I had some severe family issues/ depressive problems this year and I'm still recovering from them. I consistently ended up doing lower than average on exams and in one case, I barely passed a class.

Pretty much, these issues are over now and I want to turn things around next year. Would it be possible to make up for the first year with good second year grades, good Step score, research, etc?

 

[CassieBagley]

In terms of applying to residencies, if that's what you're asking, you cannot make up for it in terms of class rank or AOA. However, if you rebound 2nd year with a bunch of honors it will show that you just had some personal stuff going on in 1st year that prevented you from showing your true intellect/hard work.

But again, I'm not sure what you mean by "make up"

 

[Scarletblack]

In that I still may want to go to a competitive residency. I have no desire to let these issues define me for the rest of my career, especially since they are resolved now.

I don't really care about AOA since few people make it anyway. However, what I do want to do is reform whatever I need to in order to start getting Honors and doing well on Step 1. At this point, I want to know if there is such a thing as a second chance here. Cuz if there is, I'm want to run with it.

 

[Ioriscrub]

It's been discussed many times on SDN that preclinical grades mean essentially nothing when it comes to residency matching unless you fail a course. they are important in that they correlate with Step 1 (moreso for 2nd year) but the grades themselves are not significant. So there's really not much you have to "make up" for. Just do your best this coming year.

 

[Chakrabs]

1st year grades are essentially meaningless. Hell, I don't even think they correlate with performance on Step 1. In the end, how well you do on Step 1 and your clinical years (along with LORs) will determine where you go for residency. Focus on those and don't sweat your performance in 1st yr.

 

[RestoreSight]

As stated above, first year grades are meaningless. My institution did not even factor first and second year grades into AOA selection. Just focus on second year grades, get a qbank and you will have plenty of time to prepare for step 1

 

[ijn]

1st year grades are essentially meaningless. Hell, I don't even think they correlate with performance on Step 1. In the end, how well you do on Step 1 and your clinical years (along with LORs) will determine where you go for residency. Focus on those and don't sweat your performance in 1st yr.

How many 260s do you know that didn't honor most of their first two years?

 

[CassieBagley]

I'm actually gonna have to contradict what everyone else is saying. Preclinical grades are important in 4 different areas that residencies look at: 1. # Honors grades, 2. Class rank and 3. AOA status and 4. Preclinical grades. These 4 factors are wtihin the top 14 factors that resdiency directors look at and consider. They are certainly not the top 1-4 factors, but you can see how just one year can affect 4 different aspects of your application.

So, no, preclinical grades are not meaningless. In fact, they carry a fair amount of weight. Having said that, your Step 1 Score, LOR, and Year 3 grades are more heavily weighted.

 

[Sheldor]

I'm actually gonna have to contradict what everyone else is saying. Preclinical grades are important in 4 different areas that residencies look at: 1. # Honors grades, 2. Class rank and 3. AOA status and 4. Preclinical grades. These 4 factors are wtihin the top 14 factors that resdiency directors look at and consider. They are certainly not the top 1-4 factors, but you can see how just one year can affect 4 different aspects of your application.

So, no, preclinical grades are not meaningless. In fact, they carry a fair amount of weight. Having said that, your Step 1 Score, LOR, and Year 3 grades are more heavily weighted.

This. PDs I've heard talk about it consistently mention class rank up there
with step 1, etc. Anecdotal? Absolutely.
But the SDN "preclinical grades are meaningless" mantra isn't the whole story.

 

[Ioriscrub]

This article should really be posted more often.
http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx

It's the result of a survey by NRMP to determine what factors residency programs use to rank applicants.
The results are pretty much what you hear on SDN:
most important: Step 1, Clinical Grades, LORs,
least important: preclinical grades, MSPE, research, med. school rep.

This didn't vary for different specialites much either, except that more competitive specialties valued research more.

AOA and class rank were in the middle in terms of importance, but since most schools rank mainly based on the clinical years those tend to be kind of redundant.

I know at my school preclinical grades (mainly 2nd year) do correlate pretty well with Step 1 so it's not a good idea to just coast on 70s and expect to do fine, but at the end of the day most programs don't really care about them.

 

[ijn]

I would think junior AOA is mostly based on preclinical grades. Senior AOA would be based on clinical grades. No?

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

This article should really be posted more often.
http://journals.lww.com/academicmed..._Criteria_for_Residency__Results_of_a.24.aspx

It's the result of a survey by NRMP to determine what factors residency programs use to rank applicants.
The results are pretty much what you hear on SDN:
most important: Step 1, Clinical Grades, LORs,
least important: preclinical grades, MSPE, research, med. school rep.

This didn't vary for different specialites much either, except that more competitive specialties valued research more.

AOA and class rank were in the middle in terms of importance, but since most schools rank mainly based on the clinical years those tend to be kind of redundant.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the paper, that survey is regarding ranking of candidates who have already interviewed. It doesn't say anything about how important class rank (in which preclinical grades may factor into), AOA, etc, are for getting an interview invite in the first place.

I would imagine that, similar to med school apps, getting an interview is the hard part.

I've had a similar experience as Sheldor had -- one of my mentors last year was a cardiology fellow who was chief resident during his final IM year and played a big role in selecting candidates to interview at his IM program. He emphasized the importance of Step 1, class rank, and clinical grades and pretty much said that LORs are useless since every one of them tends to say you walk on water. Anecdotal, I know. Take it with a grain of salt, but I don't think this "preclinical grades are meaningless" mantra is entirely true if these grades significantly factor into your class rank, AOA status, etc. If your school is one of the ones where preclinical grades truly don't factor into these things, the mantra is much more accurate.

 

[Ioriscrub]

It probably is school dependent. My school doesn't have Junior AOA and while preclinical grades do factor into class rank, the emphasis is pretty heavily shifted towards 3rd year. My clinical preceptor once told me that our entire first year worth of grades are worth about as much as one third year rotation. *shrug* AOA selection here is based on Step 1 as well while it seems other schools may not use it for that purpose.

 

[Scarletblack]

Whatever the case may be, there is no use dwelling on something that's long gone. I'm going to focus on my second year and implement whatever changes I need in order to do well.

 

[Sheldor]

Whatever the case may be, there is no use dwelling on something that's long gone. I'm going to focus on my second year and implement whatever changes I need in order to do well.

If you're not going to dwell and just move on, why did you start this thread?

 

[RestoreSight]

If you're not going to dwell and just move on, why did you start this thread?

The purpose was to get advice.

 

[Valadi]

How many 260s do you know that didn't honor most of their first two years?

I'm around there for steps 1/2. Was a very average student my first 2 years by grades.

said that LORs are useless since every one of them tends to say you walk on water.

Agree to some extent with that guy. What I hear is that they're only useful if 1) it comes from a giant name in your field, 2) they illustrate something unique and very badass about you (ex., Johnny performed a bedside kidney transplant between himself and his renal patient on his day off)