Bad to mention interest in a certain specialty in a secondary?

[Anb123]

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I am very aware that many people change their minds about specialties throughout medical school, but is it bad to mention an interest in a specialty in a secondary, specifically if the school is known for that specialty? I have always been interested in pediatrics and am writing my secondary for the University of Cincinnati, which is known for its affiliation with Cincinnati Children's and pediatrics in general. Would it be ok to mention that I am interested in pediatrics as a possible specialty as part of my answer to the "why our school" question?

 

[Goro]

Strongly suggest that it's a bad idea if you haven't shadowed a pediatrician.

 

[Anb123]

Strongly suggest that it's a bad idea if you haven't shadowed a pediatrician.

I have 240 hours of experience shadowing pediatricians in various specialties

 

[Goro]

I have 240 hours of experience shadowing pediatricians in various specialties

you're fine!!!

 

[LizzyM]

Pediatrics, geriatrics, OB-GYN and family medicine are usually okay to mention as a strong interest. We do understand that some people change their minds but for the most part, someone who has an application that is strongly tilted toward children, the elderly, women's health, or primary care will not be faulted for specifying an interest in one of those specialty areas.

Specifying a specific interest in a surgical subspecialty or something that requires two fellowships may not be as well received.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Specifying a specific interest in a surgical subspecialty or something that requires two fellowships may not be as well received.

I wonder why that is… A lot of people wanting to do ortho, for example, have experience with orthopedic surgeons, usually as patients because many of them are athletes. Why are they taken “less seriously” than someone who wants to do primary care? I get that medical schools are interested in people who want to fill the primary care market, but is that really all of it? Or is it because adcoms don’t think that most people who want to be surgeons are serious enough to go through it?


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[wholeheartedly]

I wonder why that is… A lot of people wanting to do ortho, for example, have experience with orthopedic surgeons, usually as patients because many of them are athletes. Why are they taken “less seriously” than someone who wants to do primary care? I get that medical schools are interested in people who want to fill the primary care market, but is that really all of it? Or is it because adcoms don’t think that most people who want to be surgeons are serious enough to go through it?


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I think there might also be concern that these are often highly compensated specialties So someone might be showing more of an interest in money than service (not saying I agree, but that's a perception some seem to have). Or that people just haven't done enough due diligence to really understand what they're talking about.

 

[atomi]

I think there might also be concern that these are often highly compensated specialties So someone might be showing more of an interest in money than service (not saying I agree, but that's a perception some seem to have). Or that people just haven't done enough due diligence to really understand what they're talking about.

Medicine in general is highly compensated compared to other professional careers. It’s ridiculous to say it’s ok to declare an interest in some specialties but suggest that one should have to hide an interest in others. All are important and surgical subspecialtes may be the best fit for someone while primary care may be the best fit for another.

 

[Lucca]

I wonder why that is… A lot of people wanting to do ortho, for example, have experience with orthopedic surgeons, usually as patients because many of them are athletes. Why are they taken “less seriously” than someone who wants to do primary care? I get that medical schools are interested in people who want to fill the primary care market, but is that really all of it? Or is it because adcoms don’t think that most people who want to be surgeons are serious enough to go through it?


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It's probably much rarer to find the bona fide Ortho pre-med prepackaged with the right exposure, experience, research, etc. than someone interested in something as general and ubiquitous as Pediatrics. I would hope that someone with the right credentials wouldn't be docked for saying they want to be neurosurgeons, for example.

I talked about my interest in oncology (albeit not quite as specific as ortho) in the secondaries that asked me to talk about clinical/research interests but a lot of my experiences/research are also related to cancer. So far that seems to have worked out well enough for me.

 

[freedoctor17]

I mentioned an interest in pediatrics in mine! I also volunteered for about 80 hours (going on 100) with children in the hospital and shadowed about 25 hours with a pediatrician and have a couple hundred hours of volunteering with kids in tutoring/camp like activities so I assumed my interest was backed well enough. Out of all my shadowing, pediatrics was the only one I actually wanted to go back for each time.

 

[Lannister]

Almost everyone writes that they're interested in Cincinnati because of Children's lol. It's fine.

 

[aymar]

Strongly suggest that it's a bad idea if you haven't shadowed a pediatrician.

^^this

In one of my medical school interviews at a very primary-care oriented school, I mentioned that I was interested pediatrics. This wasn't entirely accurate (was interested in a pediatric sub-specialty, which is where my shadowing was). His follow up question was if I had ever shadowed a general pediatrician. Cue awkwardness.

I ended up getting in, but 10/10 do not recommend talking about a specialty unless you can back up that interest.

 

[Goro]

I wonder why that is… A lot of people wanting to do ortho, for example, have experience with orthopedic surgeons, usually as patients because many of them are athletes. Why are they taken “less seriously” than someone who wants to do primary care? I get that medical schools are interested in people who want to fill the primary care market, but is that really all of it? Or is it because adcoms don’t think that most people who want to be surgeons are serious enough to go through it?


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I don't think it's that; more likely it from being starry-eyed and watching too much House or Scrubs...like the superfluity of pre-meds who want to do pediatric neurosurgery or cardiology.

 

[LizzyM]

The concern with something like orthopedics is that it is highly competitive and the worry is that someone who is determined to do that and nothing else might end up unmatched, unlicensed and unemployed. On the other hand, if you say that you are interested in helping people who have suffered traumatic injuries, that can encompass a career in emergency medicine, trauma surgery, ortho, or even physical medicine & rehabilitation (PM&R), and neurology. The competitiveness of those residencies vary and while you can work hard and match in ortho, if the writing is on the wall after Step 1 that you aren't a candidate for ortho, you might be able to see yourself doing PM&R, or family medicine with a sports medicine fellowship or emergency medicine, or some other specialty that can have you working with athletes.

Oncology means working with cancer patients but there are ways to do that from internal medicine, pediatrics, gynecology, urology, surgery, ENT, derm, etc. That means a lot of flexibility in terms of residency before a oncology fellowship.

 

[WedgeDawg]

When I applied to medical school, it was with the intention of becoming a surgeon, particularly in a specific surgical subspecialty. I talked about that in my PS, in my most meaningful activities, on any secondaries where it was relevant (probably 40-50% of them), and on interviews if it came up. I got bites from some places and none from others. I think it worked out in my favor because I am applying as a reasonably competitive applicant into the same field that I have wanted to go into since high school, with a school that is supporting me 100%. I questioned this goal during med school and almost decided I wanted to do something else. And then ultimately, I found that nothing else would be right for me.

That being said, I think there is still some (a lot of?) stigma against letting adcoms know you have your heart set on a certain field, for a variety of reasons. It's not something I would necessarily recommend to anyone just from a risk management perspective. I think the best answer which no one can fault you for is "I am currently interested in this and this, but I know people change their preferences and I am keeping a completely open mind."

Let's be real, no one goes into medicine being like "I just want to be a doctor." Careers in medicine are so varied and so different from one another that this statement is totally meaningless. Having a sense of direction is valuable and can help guide your choices. But also saying as a premed that you ONLY want to do pediatric orthopedic wrist trauma, the rest of medicine be damned, is also hubris.

tl;dr, have direction, keep an open mind

 

[atomi]

There’s a difference between a pre med saying I want to be an orthopedic surgeon and here’s why vs. I only want to be an orthopedic surgeon and if I don’t match I’m going to quit after graduation and drive race cars and open up a strip club.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

The concern with something like orthopedics is that it is highly competitive and the worry is that someone who is determined to do that and nothing else might end up unmatched, unlicensed and unemployed. On the other hand, if you say that you are interested in helping people who have suffered traumatic injuries, that can encompass a career in emergency medicine, trauma surgery, ortho, or even physical medicine & rehabilitation (PM&R), and neurology. The competitiveness of those residencies vary and while you can work hard and match in ortho, if the writing is on the wall after Step 1 that you aren't a candidate for ortho, you might be able to see yourself doing PM&R, or family medicine with a sports medicine fellowship or emergency medicine, or some other specialty that can have you working with athletes.

Oncology means working with cancer patients but there are ways to do that from internal medicine, pediatrics, gynecology, urology, surgery, ENT, derm, etc. That means a lot of flexibility in terms of residency before a oncology fellowship.

Fair.


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

There’s a difference between a pre med saying I want to be an orthopedic surgeon and here’s why vs. I only want to be an orthopedic surgeon and if I don’t match I’m going to quit after graduation and drive race cars and open up a strip club.

Well, that WAS my alternative plan....


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[gyngyn]

Well, that WAS my alternative plan....

..and they are quick to let us know that.
The challenge for the medical school application that reads "all ortho all the time" is that a boatload of these applicants don't match. ...and don't respond well to counsel.
After dealing with enough of these cases, I have observed that even those trained against implicit bias will be less enthusiastic about "ortho" applicants to their medical school. Almost every medical school admissions team has Student Affairs types who have seen good students jump like lemmings off the ortho cliff.

 

[Lucca]

There’s a difference between a pre med saying I want to be an orthopedic surgeon and here’s why vs. I only want to be an orthopedic surgeon and if I don’t match I’m going to quit after graduation and drive race cars and open up a strip club.

“Screw the match! Im going to open up my own orthopedic surgery residency...with blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the surgery!”

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

..and they are quick to let us know that.
The challenge for the medical school application that reads "all ortho all the time" is that a boatload of these applicants don't match. ...and don't respond well to counsel.
After dealing with enough of these cases, I have observed that even those trained against implicit bias will be less enthusiastic about "ortho" applicants to their medical school. Almost every medical school admissions team has Student Affairs types who have seen good students jump like lemmings off the ortho cliff.

Do you guys see such premed students often? I would think that people wouldn’t say they only want to do ortho if they had very little actual exposure in it. Then again, I’m naïve when it comes to these things. I knew I wanted to be some kind of surgeon, but I wasn’t sure what, when I was entering med school. I’m not sure anyone truly knows for sure. Hell, even when I matched I still didn’t know what it would really be like until I got there.


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[gyngyn]

Do you guys see such premed students often? I would think that people wouldn’t say they only want to do ortho if they had very little actual exposure in it. Then again, I’m naïve when it comes to these things. I knew I wanted to be some kind of surgeon, but I wasn’t sure what, when I was entering med school. I’m not sure anyone truly knows for sure. Hell, even when I matched I still didn’t know what it would really be like until I got there.


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It's a recognized syndrome in Student Affairs circles.
They are often athletes (some have suffered injuries) who become obsessed with the idea of becoming an orthopedic surgeon. Their shadowing, work and volunteer experience is all in ortho. They enter medical school with the fixed belief that this is the only outcome they will consider. They take research years whether it will help or not. Even when they fail to match, they continue re-applying. If even one of them matches in a re-application it becomes legendary and precipitates another cycle of re-applications.
It only takes a handful of these experiences before anyone in career counseling cringes when they see telltale signs in an applicant.

 

[Goro]

It's a recognized syndrome in Student Affairs circles.
They are often athletes (some have suffered injuries) who become obsessed with the idea of becoming an orthopedic surgeon. Their shadowing, work and volunteer experience is all in ortho. They enter medical school with the fixed belief that this is the only outcome they will consider. They take research years whether it will help or not. Even when they fail to match, they continue re-applying. If even one of them matches in a re-application it becomes legendary and precipitates another cycle of re-applications.
It only takes a handful of these experiences before anyone in career counseling cringes when they see telltale signs in an applicant.

I've seen this as well. And keep in mind that going Ortho is a LOT harder for a DO student!

Even when they don't open their mouths about it at interviews, these candidates somehow exude the "ortho or bust" mentality.

It's made even worse when a parent is an Orthopod. You can just smell the "I'm going to join my dad's/mom's practice!" mindset.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I've seen this as well. And keep in mind that going Ortho is a LOT harder for a DO student!

Even when they don't open their mouths about it at interviews, these candidates somehow exude the "ortho or bust" mentality.

It's made even worse when a parent is an Orthopod. You can just smell the "I'm going to join my dad's/mom's practice!" mindset.

It does happen. There’s a reason why HSS (hospital for special surgery), the best ortho hospital in the country, is known in our circles as “the hospital for special sons.” 🙂 I know a ton of orthopods who joined a relative’s practice. Nothing wrong with it, as long as you give other specialties a chance and decide you actually DO love it.

Also, your statement about “ortho or bust” is funny because ......When I was an MS2 and was told I would never be an orthopod because it wasn’t a job for women (shockingly, it isn’t, for most women....or men), and because my grades were not super, and because I was physically weak....I wrote this on a piece of paper and taped it to my desk. Every time I studied, I would look up and there it was. And now it’s in my home office. #EveryDayImHustlin

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[Goro]

Also, your statement about “ortho or bust” is funny because ......When I was an MS2 and was told I would never be an orthopod because it wasn’t a job for women (shockingly, it isn’t, for most women....or men), and because my grades were not super, and because I was physically weak....I wrote this on a piece of paper and taped it to my desk. Every time I studied, I would look up and there it was. And now it’s in my home office. #EveryDayImHustlin


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[OrthoTraumaMD]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Hehe. To be fair, I fixed the issues that would have hindered me in being a good orthopod. I went to the gym to get stronger, I studied a lot, and I learned how to stay awake for 30 hours on some ER ham sandwiches and coffee. 🙂


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[Lucca]

It does happen. There’s a reason why HSS (hospital for special surgery), the best ortho hospital in the country, is known in our circles as “the hospital for special sons.” 🙂 I know a ton of orthopods who joined a relative’s practice. Nothing wrong with it, as long as you give other specialties a chance and decide you actually DO love it.

Also, your statement about “ortho or bust” is funny because ......When I was an MS2 and was told I would never be an orthopod because it wasn’t a job for women (shockingly, it isn’t, for most women....or men), and because my grades were not super, and because I was physically weak....I wrote this on a piece of paper and taped it to my desk. Every time I studied, I would look up and there it was. And now it’s in my home office. #EveryDayImHustlin


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This is a great story. One of my friends at a TX med school told me that like 25% of her class was planning to apply ortho and the Faculty was becoming extremely nervous about it, so much so that they declared they would only write recommendations for ortho for 12-14 applicants max.

If that doesn’t light a fire...

 

[MyOdyssey]

This is a great story. One of my friends at a TX med school told me that like 25% of her class was planning to apply ortho and the Faculty was becoming extremely nervous about it, so much so that they declared they would only write recommendations for ortho for 12-14 applicants max.

If that doesn’t light a fire...

What is the allure of ortho? I don't get it...

 

[Shambere]

What is the allure of ortho? I don't get it...

1.Broken bone
2.Aligned bone
3.???????
4.Profit