Banking vs Dentistry

[supraeli]

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Sorry, is that not enough for you? Seems to me like you're looking for a reason not to go into Dentistry when it could have perhaps been your dream in the past, and I think what you just stated is what you tell yourself every night to help you sleep better. I mean, why else are you on the PRE-DENTAL forums? Did you get lost when Googling "How to be a gazillion banker"?

Maybe I'm being cruel, I'm really not trying to be. Just sayin'...

EDIT: I just realized you're a Dental Student. Yikes...I'm not even sure what to say at this point besides this; I would DIEEEEE to be in your spot, even if it meant twice as much debt as you're incurring.

I'm in dentistry because I love dentistry. I love to prep teeth, I love shaping my fillings, implants, veneers, RCTs, etc. I'm just stating the facts: dental school and the dental career is not an easy carefree chill life (not anymore, maybe 10 years ago). Too many predents and older dentists are continually propagating an inaccurate picture of our profession. Its a massive amount of stress that will truly be hard to swallow unless you have a love for performing dentistry.

i honestly dont understand why so many people constantly complain about how horrible dental school debt is and how miserable going through dental school is. whoop di doo thats the game of life, debt isnt bad as long you know how to manage it. it may cost you 300k-400k+interest but you enter a respectable field where you help others and make plenty of money to make a good living. if your business savy and know how to market you can be very successful

And its not like dental school is impossible to go through either, most students make it through just fine. so what if you have to struggle at times, its the hard times in life that really give light to your character.

dentistry is a good lifestyle+intellectually satisfying= GREAT CAREER CHOICE

I'm not complaining. The topic of this thread is banking vs. dentistry, and I am stating facts to help the comparison.

 

[UCSD1984]

I'm in dentistry because I love dentistry. I love to prep teeth, I love shaping my fillings, implants, veneers, RCTs, etc. I'm just stating the facts: dental school and the dental career is not an easy carefree chill life (not anymore, maybe 10 years ago). Too many predents and older dentists are continually propagating an inaccurate picture of our profession. Its a massive amount of stress that will truly be hard to swallow unless you have a love for performing dentistry.

I'm not complaining. The topic of this thread is banking vs. dentistry, and I am stating facts to help the comparison.

Fair enough, and kudos to you. But there is one thing about Dentistry (for the most part, so please take this as a generalization) that can trump <almost> any other profession out there, regardless of the income disparity; Once a Dentist establishes him/herself in their practice, the amount of hours worked per week and substantially lower than said comparative-career. Average hours worked per week for a GD/PD are 35-40 hours a week.

I'd like to give a brief overview of my past during my pre-undergrad and undergrad years (mind you, I started college when I was 22). My father has always owned several business' that consist of super markets, gas stations, motels, restaurants, and bars. When I worked with him (thinking I was simply going to follow in his footsteps and take over a couple of the business' one day), I worked on average about 80 hours a week. During one point in time (about a 6 month time-frame), I worked upwards of 100-110 hours per week (graveyard shift after day shift, rinse and repeat, with 2 full days off, and small breaks in-between shifts that consisted of no more than 2 hours to shower and eat). Mind you, I'm very close with my father/entire family and thus was counted as a shareholder in the business'. I was making a fantastic amount of money at the age of 20, but it only took me a few years to realize that I couldn't see myself doing it for the rest of my life.

I'm writing this story to let anyone reading and anyone who is interested know that yes, there definitely are professions out there that can make you double or triple what a Dentist makes, but ask yourself this; if you do not enjoy what you're doing (and this is a completely different matter, because I enjoyed running small business', especially since I worked with my family, but I'm stating it nonetheless), if you don't feel as though you've accomplished a wonderful service for your customers/clients/patients by the end of the day, if you have NO TIME to spend your hard-earned money on your wife, friends, children, and self, and if you're working so much that you're digging yourself into an early grave due to stress and lack of exercise because you truly have no time and energy to monitor your physical and mental well-being, then what are you working for?

I went off on a few tangents there, I apologize. My main point is this; if you're telling me that I can bust my ***** for 4 years, obtain an advanced Doctorate degree, have the honor of have my own patient-base and my own small business (eventually of course), be able to go home feeling as though I've accomplished something grand for the day by making my patients comfortable and catering to their needs, then I'll take it...regardless of the debt.

Tell me I'll be 1.2 million dollars in debt by the end of my Dental studies, and I still won't bat an eye. I've seen several career-lifestyles (my father being the small-business owner, my girlfriend being a Banker currently, and my best friend being a Lawyer, and another good friend of mine being a Physician), and I'll take Dentistry any day.

Now I wish I could just travel back in time to have a sit down with my undergrad-self in order to beat the living crap out of him for not realizing that he had the opportunity to excel and be in Dental School in just a couple years. 😡

 

[wired202808]

I never understood why people think bankers have more stress than dentists. Do you guys understand how many hours/week you will be studying in dental school? I know many 1st year dental students who can only afford to sleep 5 hrs/night for the whole school year! Thats 4 years of insane stress levels just to put yourself in a financial pit, owing 300-400K with interest. Then you gotta put yourself further down when you finally get the balls to take a practice loan with another 300K+ in debt. Then, once you have your own practice, you have all the stresses of running your own business with absolutely NO training on how to do it correctly. According to TDIC, every dentist will have to deal with at least 1 lawsuit in their career... Talk about stress!

When you factor in the avg dentist makes only 200K/yr according to ADA (after taxes nets only 120K) and how long it will take you to pay off all your debt... well...

You gotta love dentistry to do it... it simply doesn't compete with other high yield jobs.

No risk... no reward... most jobs that pay over 100K require sacrifice. However, setting your own hours and making over 100K is a privilege that very few have. There is no doubt about it, any sort of advanced education in Medicine whether it be medical school or dentistry will yield you a much better and more satisfying lifestyle choice. No need to cry about the hours put in, that's why education is called an "investment."

 

[Zoupa]

Banking will pay a lot more if you succeed. If you fail you can always go into dentistry later. You'd just be a few years older.

If I don't get into dental school (here in Canada it's pretty competitive and I don't know about taking out 350k to go to school in the states) I'll probably become an actuary. Very corporate shill type stuff like banking. Good money (but nowhere near banking) with good work-life balance, though. I'd rather own my own shop and set my own hours. I don't need to make 1 mil/year. But if I was I would retire very soon afterward.

 

[Zoupa]

Sorry, is that not enough for you? Seems to me like you're looking for a reason not to go into Dentistry when it could have perhaps been your dream in the past, and I think what you just stated is what you tell yourself every night to help you sleep better. I mean, why else are you on the PRE-DENTAL forums? Did you get lost when Googling "How to be a gazillion banker"?

Maybe I'm being cruel, I'm really not trying to be. Just sayin'...

EDIT: I just realized you're a Dental Student. Yikes...I'm not even sure what to say at this point besides this; I would DIEEEEE to be in your spot, even if it meant twice as much debt as you're incurring.

I think he's just saying that 200k is far from huge money when you factor in 4 years of opportunity cost and 600k of debt (tuition and to open a practice) with interest. Still really good money, but a far cry from banking and even anesthesiologist type money. Like the banking guy, I'm interested in dentistry partly for the business side of it. I also would like the autonomy and am much more interested in teeth than medicine for whatever reason. Must be all of the dentist visits I've had to make from a young age.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

I would rather be a dentist, even if it was a pay cut. The financial aspect will be nice but it shouldn't be your main focus on your future as a dentist...

 

[Lunasly]

Both professions make very good money. However, if you put in the same work hours into dentistry as you would being an investment banker (i.e working 60+ hours) then you will make a ton of money.

 

[wired202808]

Both professions make very good money. However, if you put in the same work hours into dentistry as you would being an investment banker (i.e working 60+ hours) then you will make a ton of money.

as a dentist you can write off a lot of expenses since you own your own business vs. an i-banker that pays 40% tax on every penny. take it from someone who worked in Finance, its will never be more lucrative than medicine. Period. Don't believe me try it out and see what happens.

 

[Zoupa]

its will never be more lucrative than medicine. Period. Don't believe me try it out and see what happens.

that isn't really true. There are portfolio managers in their late 20s who make 1 mil per year. I've heard of guys retiring in their early 30s with more money than they know what to do with. It's just very rare. And I know people on wall street (albeit in corporate finance) who love their jobs. From what I've seen, dentistry isn't THAT lucrative. You'll be upper middle class with great work life balance unless you're in a very successful practice or specialize. If you're a standout you'll probably be able to make better money elsewhere.

 

[UCSD1984]

that isn't really true. There are portfolio managers in their late 20s who make 1 mil per year. I've heard of guys retiring in their early 30s with more money than they know what to do with. It's just very rare. And I know people on wall street (albeit in corporate finance) who love their jobs. From what I've seen, dentistry isn't THAT lucrative. You'll be upper middle class with great work life balance unless you're in a very successful practice or specialize. If you're a standout you'll probably be able to make better money elsewhere.

If we're going to mention rare occurrences in one field, then let's mention it in the comparative field. The MAJORITY of bankers I know make 50k or so a year. The MAJORITY of Dentists I've met make much more. And as far as the "rare" occurrences, I know 2 Dentists that own the entire shopping centers in which their practice is located. They're looking at 40k+ per month.

It's not practical to compare a rare occurrence in banking to the average occurrence in Dentistry. If you know how to invest wisely and have an entrepreneurial mindset, then you can make as much money as your heart desires. The plus-side to Dentistry in this sense is that your practice, once up and running/stable, will only take up 35-40 hours out of your week. To me, that's a ridiculously low amount of time to put in each week. That gives a Dentist plenty of time to invest in other business ideas.

Not to mention...you'd be a Doctor 😀

 

[Zoupa]

If we're going to mention rare occurrences in one field, then let's mention it in the comparative field. The MAJORITY of bankers I know make 50k or so a year. The MAJORITY of Dentists I've met make much more. And as far as the "rare" occurrences, I know 2 Dentists that own the entire shopping centers in which their practice is located. They're looking at 40k+ per month.

It's not practical to compare a rare occurrence in banking to the average occurrence in Dentistry. If you know how to invest wisely and have an entrepreneurial mindset, then you can make as much money as your heart desires. The plus-side to Dentistry in this sense is that your practice, once up and running/stable, will only take up 35-40 hours out of your week. To me, that's a ridiculously low amount of time to put in each week. That gives a Dentist plenty of time to invest in other business ideas.

Not to mention...you'd be a Doctor 😀

Well I was just responding to his point that banking will never be as lucrative as medicine... (assuming he meant dentistry or medicine by that) which is clearly not the case. The average guy in finance over here makes around 100k and a lot of managers (not even in investment banking) make 200k, which is what the average dentist makes. Mind you, it takes a long time to reach that level and they're working well over 35 hours per week. 50k for finance is average for entry level. And high finance is probably more prestigious than dentistry. The Dr. designation doesn't mean much once you're no longer a teenager.

 

[UCSD1984]

Well I was just responding to his point that banking will never be as lucrative as medicine... (assuming he meant dentistry or medicine by that) which is clearly not the case. The average guy in finance over here makes around 100k and a lot of managers (not even in investment banking) make 200k, which is what the average dentist makes. Mind you, it takes a long time to reach that level and they're working well over 35 hours per week. 50k for finance is average for entry level. And high finance is probably more prestigious than dentistry. The Dr. designation doesn't mean much once you're no longer a teenager.

I'm going to disagree with you on that one, but everyone has their own opinions and outlooks.

 

[wired202808]

that isn't really true. There are portfolio managers in their late 20s who make 1 mil per year. I've heard of guys retiring in their early 30s with more money than they know what to do with. It's just very rare. And I know people on wall street (albeit in corporate finance) who love their jobs. From what I've seen, dentistry isn't THAT lucrative. You'll be upper middle class with great work life balance unless you're in a very successful practice or specialize. If you're a standout you'll probably be able to make better money elsewhere.

On average, dentists make more than most corporate gigs and have a better work/life balance. Mentioning exceptional or rare cases is not fruitful, since the majority doesn't make that much. Dentists in NYC can make a very good living based on their location, again this is rare. But my point is that on average, dentists make significantly more AND enjoy their work/life balance. Finance is not fun or easy nor is it fair. You can work 60 to 80 hours a week to make your $200K, meanwhile you can make the same amount working as a dentist 40 hours a week. It's all about opportunity cost. Plus most i-bankers are stressed, on drugs, and hate their lives. That's a fact.

 

[wired202808]

Well I was just responding to his point that banking will never be as lucrative as medicine... (assuming he meant dentistry or medicine by that) which is clearly not the case. The average guy in finance over here makes around 100k and a lot of managers (not even in investment banking) make 200k, which is what the average dentist makes. Mind you, it takes a long time to reach that level and they're working well over 35 hours per week. 50k for finance is average for entry level. And high finance is probably more prestigious than dentistry. The Dr. designation doesn't mean much once you're no longer a teenager.

Since 2008, everyone hates Wall Street and the Finance "gurus" that ruined their lives, Finance is equivalent to lawyers. I've never seen anyone talk crap about a dentist lol. Most people wouldn't want to be dentist, but then again most people dont realize that a dentist will make more then they will make in their lifetime.

 

[UCSD1984]

Since 2008, everyone hates Wall Street and the Finance "gurus" that ruined their lives, Finance is equivalent to lawyers. I've never seen anyone talk crap about a dentist lol. Most people wouldn't want to be dentist, but then again most people dont realize that a dentist will make more then they will make in their lifetime.

As someone who pursued Law School for an entire year and was <this> close to applying last month, I must admit that the stigma associated with Lawyers is insanely nerve-wracking. There's almost nothing glamorous about being on Wall Street or being a Lawyer in this day and age. It didn't take me long to realize that it was a lot more than just a generalization or a stereotype, it was truth. They gain little to no respect from their clients and they truly have to hustle to make a living.

I interned for quite a few Lawyers, all of them were successful (100k+/year), but they all reminded me of those teenagers working at non-corporate cellphone kiosks in the mall, screaming at you as you walk by to try and reel you in.

 

[Zoupa]

I'm going to disagree with you on that one, but everyone has their own opinions and outlooks.

I'd say public prestige and media portrayal are closely tied. Notable dentists in movies include Matthew Perry from The Whole 9 Yards and the guy from The Hangover. On the other hand, finance guys get Gordon Gekko and Patrick Bateman.

On average, dentists make more than most corporate gigs and have a better work/life balance. Mentioning exceptional or rare cases is not fruitful, since the majority doesn't make that much. Dentists in NYC can make a very good living based on their location, again this is rare. But my point is that on average, dentists make significantly more AND enjoy their work/life balance. Finance is not fun or easy nor is it fair. You can work 60 to 80 hours a week to make your $200K, meanwhile you can make the same amount working as a dentist 40 hours a week. It's all about opportunity cost. Plus most i-bankers are stressed, on drugs, and hate their lives. That's a fact.

I wasn't debating that... read my response again. I was only debating that finance can't be as lucrative as medicine. The guys in high finance make much over 200k once they hit their 30s. And the one's outside of high finance who top out at 200k don't work anything close to 80 hours per week.

Since 2008, everyone hates Wall Street and the Finance "gurus" that ruined their lives, Finance is equivalent to lawyers. I've never seen anyone talk crap about a dentist lol. Most people wouldn't want to be dentist, but then again most people dont realize that a dentist will make more then they will make in their lifetime.

I don't know if respect and prestige are that closely tied. CEOs are unanimously detested, but it's still a very prestigious title. I actually think that most overestimate dentists' income. Over here dentists have a reputation for being the highest paid profession, above even doctors. I guess that's because I'm from Canada. People here get charged to see a dentist, but not a doctor.

 

[Zoupa]

As someone who pursued Law School for an entire year and was <this> close to applying last month, I must admit that the stigma associated with Lawyers is insanely nerve-wracking. There's almost nothing glamorous about being on Wall Street or being a Lawyer in this day and age. It didn't take me long to realize that it was a lot more than just a generalization or a stereotype, it was truth. They gain little to no respect from their clients and they truly have to hustle to make a living.

I interned for quite a few Lawyers, all of them were successful (100k+/year), but they all reminded me of those teenagers working at non-corporate cellphone kiosks in the mall, screaming at you as you walk by to try and reel you in.

Glamor doesn't exist outside of movies... unless you're a celebrity or pro athlete. I don't think dentistry or medicine are glamorous, but they're both still great careers.

 

[wired202808]

Glamor doesn't exist outside of movies... unless you're a celebrity or pro athlete. I don't think dentistry or medicine are glamorous, but they're both still great careers.

I disagree, I think most people like to hear and speak to someone who's a doctor vs. a mechanic or some IT or Finance guy lol. Maybe that depends on what company you keep or circles you belong to. Plus Canada and the US is different for Finance, you guys probably have less stress, NYC will run you dry as either a lawyer or finance guy.

 

[Zoupa]

I disagree, I think most people like to hear and speak to someone who's a doctor vs. a mechanic or some IT or Finance guy lol. Maybe that depends on what company you keep or circles you belong to. Plus Canada and the US is different for Finance, you guys probably have less stress, NYC will run you dry as either a lawyer or finance guy.

Canada and US are fairly similar for finance. Bay Street in Canada will pay a bit less and require a bit less hours than Wall Street. But even the top Canadian finance students aim for wall street. Bay Street is second best. Top law grads aim for bay since law in the states sucks.

I've always equated prestige more to envy as opposed to who people would like to talk to. I think most people regard teachers highly, but it's a low prestige profession.

 

[wired202808]

As someone who pursued Law School for an entire year and was <this> close to applying last month, I must admit that the stigma associated with Lawyers is insanely nerve-wracking. There's almost nothing glamorous about being on Wall Street or being a Lawyer in this day and age. It didn't take me long to realize that it was a lot more than just a generalization or a stereotype, it was truth. They gain little to no respect from their clients and they truly have to hustle to make a living.

I interned for quite a few Lawyers, all of them were successful (100k+/year), but they all reminded me of those teenagers working at non-corporate cellphone kiosks in the mall, screaming at you as you walk by to try and reel you in.

UCSD you made the smartest decision of your life, I have tons of friends in law school who hate their life and all the loans they're paying back for the toilet schools they attended. $120K for law school in an over-saturated market with 300+ law schools = misery. Most people when asked would not recommend anyone to go to law school and regret the fact that they went. Its just one of those negative jobs. So be happy you chose medicine, which I believe is the best job market in America. Nothing beats it in my mind, over a 50 year career. Granted civil service jobs like cops and firefighters make a lot but they also risk their lives and only make significantly more than dentists through retirement benefits.

 

[wired202808]

Canada and US is fairly similar. Bay Street in Canada will pay a bit less and require a bit less hours. But even the top Canadian students aim for wall street. Bay Street is second best.

So what's your deal? Are you a Finance guy trying to get into medicine or do you just come here to try to argue that Finance is better?

 

[Zoupa]

So what's your deal? Are you a Finance guy trying to get into medicine or do you just come here to try to argue that Finance is better?

I'm pre-dent and want to be a dentist. But I know a lot about all careers and know that finance can be extremely lucrative. That's all I was arguing.

I'm not saying finance is better. I'd still rather be a dentist than be in high finance.

 

[wired202808]

I'm pre-dent and want to be a dentist. But I know a lot about all careers and know that finance can be extremely lucrative. That's all I was arguing.

I'm not saying finance is better. I'd still rather be a dentist than be in high finance.

makes sense follow your dreams. I was in Finance for 6 years, it sucks, dentists rule! lol

 

[Zoupa]

makes sense follow your dreams. I was in Finance for 6 years, it sucks, dentists rule! lol

How old are you? Like I said before, if I can't get into dent school here in canada I'll be applying for actuarial jobs. If I don't like that I may contemplate taking out a big loan to go to dental school in the states. How much you paying for tuition and how old are you? Because I might end up in a similar position at your age lol.

 

[UCSD1984]

UCSD you made the smartest decision of your life, I have tons of friends in law school who hate their life and all the loans they're paying back for the toilet schools they attended. $120K for law school in an over-saturated market with 300+ law schools = misery. Most people when asked would not recommend anyone to go to law school and regret the fact that they went. Its just one of those negative jobs. So be happy you chose medicine, which I believe is the best job market in America. Nothing beats it in my mind, over a 50 year career. Granted civil service jobs like cops and firefighters make a lot but they also risk their lives and only make significantly more than dentists through retirement benefits.

I agree with you my friend. I was pre-med pretty much my whole life, and by some massive turn of events (I won't get into details, it's not something I like to look back on), I turned to Law in hopes that I could still use my Biology degree to go into Biotech/Pharmaceutical Patent Law. Boy, was I misinformed. Only took me 10 months to figure it out. Almost, if not all, Biotech Patent Lawyers have a Ph.D (sometimes a Masters).

Not to mention, unless you're going to attend a top-14 Law School (again, I'll save you all the details on why "top-14" and not top-20 or similar), then you are definitely considered going to a "toilet" school. It's one of those careers that people pursue when the economy hits a slump, because everyone seems to assume being a Lawyer = being filthy rich. How far from the truth that is, I truly cannot describe in words. THERE ARE NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH DICTIONARY TO DESCRIBE HOW SCREWED 95% OF ALL LAW GRADUATES ARE.

End rant, sorry.

Hooray Dentistry. I love studying for the DAT. *hugs Destroyer*😍

 

[Zoupa]

I agree with you my friend. I was pre-med pretty much my whole life, and by some massive turn of events (I won't get into details, it's not something I like to look back on), I turned to Law in hopes that I could still use my Biology degree to go into Biotech/Pharmaceutical Patent Law. Boy, was I misinformed. Only took me 10 months to figure it out. Almost, if not all, Biotech Patent Lawyers have a Ph.D (sometimes a Masters).

Not to mention, unless you're going to attend a top-14 Law School (again, I'll save you all the details on why "top-14" and not top-20 or similar), then you are definitely considered going to a "toilet" school. It's one of those careers that people pursue when the economy hits a slump, because everyone seems to assume being a Lawyer = being filthy rich. How far from the truth that is, I truly cannot describe in words. THERE ARE NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH DICTIONARY TO DESCRIBE HOW SCREWED 95% OF ALL LAW GRADUATES ARE.

End rant, sorry.

Hooray Dentistry. I love studying for the DAT. *hugs Destroyer*😍

I was thinking about patent law for a long time as well. I actually chose mec engineering for my degree for that reason.

I wouldn't say the bolded is true. The only two people I know in law school wanted to be lawyers since high school. Mind you the situation for law up here is much different from the states. Tuition is about 12k per year and we graduate about 2000 students for an equal number of entry-level jobs each year. We don't have law grads with loads of debt they can't pay off. It's also much harder to get into law school up here due to the limited seats.

I decided against it for the time being because 1) it seems less interesting than a couple alternatives and 2) it seems like lawyers work too many hours.

 

[wired202808]

How old are you? Like I said before, if I can't get into dent school here in canada I'll be applying for actuarial jobs. If I don't like that I may contemplate taking out a big loan to go to dental school in the states. How much you paying for tuition and how old are you? Because I might end up in a similar position at your age lol.

i'll be 27 in a few months and I've been working at Finance gig for about a few years and i hated it. Time to upgrade to dentistry. I did not get accepted into school yet, I'm taking my DAT soon so well see what happens. But debt doesn't trouble me because everyone pays it off and i know ill be happier. even if im debt free by 40.

 

[Zoupa]

i'll be 27 in a few months and I've been working at Finance gig for about a few years and i hated it. Time to upgrade to dentistry. I did not get accepted into school yet, I'm taking my DAT soon so well see what happens. But debt doesn't trouble me because everyone pays it off and i know ill be happier. even if im debt free by 40.

You applying this summer then? I was thinking about applying to the states for 2012 but it sucks you have to apply so early. It's very short notice to study for and write the DAT if I decided to do so now since I just thought of applying there recently. I didn't even know they took canadian students until a few weeks ago.